Actually I enjoy the game, flaws and all. But then I don't know of any MMO without flaws. I can't take these posts seriously anymore, it's become too much of the 'in thing' to bash TOR these days. I'm not saying there aren't honest complaints about the game, but what I see on these forums more often than not simply doesn't qualify.

In a word, yes.

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by BarakIII

Originally posted by Sorrow

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Sorrow

 

SWTOR had it's chance, it blew it, the core of the tribe has moved on.

Cool story bro. Too bad it's not true though.

Can you honestly convince even yourself that SWTOR is not hemmoraging subs at an unprecedented rate.

I mean just look at youtube, any gaming site, the swtor forums themselves... players are disappointed, frustrated, and down right angry.

But hey the titanic only has so many lifeboats some people have to stay onboard and go down with the ship.

Actually the game lost a lot of people throughout it's first month then the population leveled off and has remained steady ever since. As for your proof here you go: http://www.mmo-junkies.net/statistics/. This site measures server load not actual population, but as you can see after an initial decline the servers have maintained a steady load over the last month.

This isn't actually "proof" of anything.  The decline can just as easily be attributed to the fact that after the initial rush of release, the same number of people are playing LESS as the excitement wears off.  This is probably more likely.

All MMOs go through an initial loss of players. I mean just look at all the players on this site who got the game knowing full well they weren't going to like it. They'd already made up their own minds and nothing was really going to change it and they left almost immediately.

This initial loss of population is the sort of thing that happens to all MMOs, and as far as I know always has. The only exception might be WoW and I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happened there to a lesser extent. How they do after that is what really matters.

Originally posted by Sorrow

Originally posted by Dredphyre

Originally posted by Sorrow

 

SWTOR had it's chance, it blew it, the core of the tribe has moved on.

Cool story bro. Too bad it's not true though.

Can you honestly convince even yourself that SWTOR is not hemmoraging subs at an unprecedented rate.

I mean just look at youtube, any gaming site, the swtor forums themselves... players are disappointed, frustrated, and down right angry.

But hey the titanic only has so many lifeboats some people have to stay onboard and go down with the ship.

Actually the game lost a lot of people throughout it's first month then the population leveled off and has remained steady ever since. As for your proof here you go: http://www.mmo-junkies.net/statistics/. This site measures server load not actual population, but as you can see after an initial decline the servers have maintained a steady load over the last month.

Originally posted by Hauken

As a player of SWTOR ive stated before that i feel this game is mediocre at best. And i can only see the game will entertain me for a few months. My highest lvl char is 37 a jedi counceler. And i found that the gameplay and story wasnt all that great. So i created a trooper and lost a bit of intrest at lvl 11!!!. I then made a jedi knight and went a bit on the dark side with him and found him a bit more entertaining than the two first. So dark side eh? I then went and created a BH my favourite profession from SWG. The story and abilities so far is much better than the others so far(But i hear that the BH story is bugged?) And im locked to the empire and no player bounties!!! I guess smugglers suffers from same.....

To be honest all in all the story telling just dont seem all that good to me. In conversations i choose one answer and get a response from my char that doesnt really seem to fit? Story seems shallow and not that interesting. Really the story telling in LOTRO, both main quests(books) and side quests entertains me a lot more, and that without VO.

So my question is. can future content be created so that players will have more power on how the War in Star Wars will evolve? Will new planets be wide open spaces that can be fought over? Space battles between players starfighters and/or capital ships?

With 100-200 mill invested in this there just got to be more....

Sorry, I just don't buy the part highlighted in orange. I also play Lotro and the stories, especially of side quests, are mediocre AT BEST. I think TOR stories are much better. What pulls me in in Lotro is the world itself, and the crafting which I like a lot. I'm not saying that the storires in TOR are prize winning stories and that can be said of any of Bioware games including the Mass Effect series which is my favorite series of all time. What makes stories so entertaining in gaming is their interactivity. While the main plot is always the same there's always small differences in each play through depending on the choices you make that makes these games worth while to me.

To answer your question posted in the title of the thread, yes there can be improvement. MMOs by their nature are always evolving. This doesn't always lead to improvement, but it can.

As to the question you actually posted in your post, the answer is no. The main plot will always be the same, there will only be small differences depending on your choices. If that's not enough for you then perhaps this game and others like it simply aren't for you. But tell me something, why would you expect such control? You certainly don't get it in Lotro nor in any other MMO, yet you seem to expect things to be so much different in TOR, why?

Here's what I would like to see added, some of which I know is already on the table:

Guild ships/guild banks

Social mini-games like pazaak and pod/speeder racing. This goes along with making cantina's/casino's useful. Nar Shadaa has a great big casino with absolutely nothing to do. I assume it's there because they have future plans, but I hope they put those plans into action sooner rather than later.

A  LFG tool which is NOT  CROSS SERVER. The fact the game needs this is a bit ridiculous, you can make global channels in the game yet nobody uses them to look for groups. I think people are the problem here rather than any lack of a tool.

Improved crew skills

More companions incuding more romance options: I don't like the fact that Jedi's essentially have to be totally irresponsible and have an affair with a padawan. Thats about like a college professor dating his/her students, highly unprofessional and unethical.

Some sandbox elements especially at end game. I'm not suggesting they turn this game into SWG 2, but I do feel that hybrid games are a better idea rather than a pure themepark or sandbox. Perhaps they could add some worlds with sandbox elements rather than trying to change or add to worlds that are already there. I'm not saying I want an overhaul here, I like the game now, I just think it could use a few sandbox elements to flesh it out.

Dailies which involve solo instances somewhere other than Ilum.

Oh, and yes I totally agree on the third faction thing. This would be a neutral criminal faction that can choose to help either side or sometimes even both sides. Tho I may not agree on the classes you suggested.

Soooo, you couldn't have said this in the thread that already existed?

Except in Eve you can set skills for training and do nothing for literally days, weeks, or even months at a time while in TOR the longest any skill takes is about hour and you have to actually set another skill in motion to get a point. Not to mention that Eve's skill system has to do with your character abilities and crew skills just has to do with crafting. Yeah, sorry, I'm just not seeing it.

If a quest has [area 2] or [area 4] in the title then it's the same thing as a [heroic 2] or a [heroic 4]. I don't know if what you're talking about is the same thing, but I have seen people be confused about this in game, tho how they were confused I really don't know. So yeah, if that's what you see in the title then they aren't solo quests, they're group quests.

I've seen this before. It's very pretty, but the nice thing about space is it's very empty, therefore easy to rendor. The planet also is very empty. Pick a spot on the planet and fill it with stuff, plus hundreds or even thousands of npc's, then throw in 50 or so other players on top of that then see how it does. Somehow I don't think the experience would be as nice.

Originally posted by Sovrath

Except OP, I've grouped more and longer in SWToR than I have in other games in a very long time. So what's your point?

In LOTRO one can for the most part go from lvl 1 to cap without ever having to group. One would have to ignore certain types of content but one can stil do it. Same with SWToR.

Same with many games that have come out. The difference? If players take charge of their own play and how it unwinds then one can group and be social and do many of the things they would like to, just like in any game.

But players have become "dumb". It's as if they can't think for themselve anymore so they allow themselves to be put on a solo treadmill by the fact that they aren't capable of exerting their will.

It's like the posts about Skyrim that cropped up and people saying "it's linear just like any game" and "there are things that make you overpowered therrfore it's boring".

Well? Step off the beaten path when you want to do something different. After all, most typical stories ARE linear. There is a point A a point B, etc. I say most because there is story telling that doesn't follow typical time lines but still there are points of progression in stories.

Overpowered? Don't use the things that make you overpowered, problem solved. But can players do this? No. They just blindly follow the path of least resistance and cry that it wasn't a good experience.

As I used to say in my old Lineage 2 clan, you are responsible for your own fun. But if players are going to adhere to the path of least resistance without supplying a little bit of thought and will then that's their own fault.

In terms of solo gameplay I don't really think this is true. There are a multitude of reasons why people solo in an MMO. It's not about being 'dumb' as you put it. That's just way too cynical, even for me.

As to the rest I tend to agree with you with some differences. Frankly I  think many of the complaints I hear about games these days tend to be dishonest as people tend to use a complaint as a means to promote an agenda. Except for the overpowered thing, people want to feel powerful so they go for the most powerful builds then turn around and complain about being overpowered. It's inconsistent.

The idea that people are responsible for their own fun I totally completely agree with.

I don't really consider myself an MMO veteran, but I have played a number of MMOs now and I don't find anything particularly unique about TOR in terms of how players in the game view grouping with others. There do need to be more social elements in the game, but these things will not change how much people do or do not play together nor make it a more enjoyable social experience. I would like to see more content for guilds, but again this doesn't change the way people play. Nor would adding content like gambling and or racing. There really is nothing any different about the TOR community and how they play together than any other MMO community. I would like to see a lookng for group tool, but such tools only make it easier for people to find others to run dungeons together, it doesn't really enhance the social element as they would be looking for people to do this with or without such a tool, the tool would only make it easier.

I would also point out that content that forces players to play together, does not make them more social. This is one thing that I find fault in in the MMO community. They want something in a game that makes people more social, but nothing any developer can do will make people more social. Only the community itself can change this because no tool a developer can come up with will change people. What do I mean? Well I'll try to explain. I've been in lots of groups for content that requires grouping, but being in a group does not make it a social thing. I've been in groups where nobody said a word the entire time, such a group is actually preferable to another type of group, that being a group where one or more of the players are complete jerks. It only takes one such person to ruin the experience for everybody involved. On the other hand I've also been in a group where one person can make the entire experience so much more fun and social than it might otherwise be.

These things are not unique in any way to TOR. It's no better or worse than any other MMO community. What I'm trying to say is that the most important element in an MMO to make it a fun social experience is you the player. Your attitude can change what might otherwise be an unremarkable experience into one of great fun. People should really think about that before they start pointing fingers at developers.

Originally posted by Eliandal

Originally posted by PKJackCrow

Considering how many post i have seen on here saying how ridiculas easy it s to make money it basically becomes null and void penalty then huh.

 

   Try it yourself instead of relying on other people.  It definately is not a 'null and void' penalty then huh?  It is ridiculas easy to burn through a weeks worth of farming in one bad night of wipes.

 

  ...and I guess you can tell that I didn't like DP's in EQ/DAOC/UO - they bring nothing to the game but another time sink.  You want a death penalty - delete your character everytime you die.

I agree, it may seem easy to make credits in this game, but it slips through your fingers just as easily. Item damage may be a mild death penalty, but it's still a death penalty and isn't exactly new to the genre for it to be the penalty of choice.

Yeahhhh, a title that 99.9% of people who earn it won't use is SUUUCCHHH a money grab. /sarcasm

The only joke is you posting and trying to make a big deal of this nonsense.

Originally posted by jayanti

Lol, you guys are so funnny :)

"No Patch?! BW are awful and are doing it on purpose, Im quitting!"

"A Patch?! BW are awful and are doing it on purpose, Im quitting!"

Please, for all our sakes, just follow through on your threats and actually quit. We all get that you wanted to love this game, and had this strange image of it in your heads, and we know that the actual game didnt live up to that imagined game you wanted so badly, and now you feel let down and hurt by the company you spent the last 6 years defending.

We know its like you've broken up with a girlfriend or boyfriend, and possibly for some this is the first time you have felt this way. But dont worry, GW2 and TSW are being hyped up nicely, and this time next year we all know you will be in their forums posting the exact same thing, just like you did with Rift and Aion.

So you know what, maybe MMO's arent for you? Maybe you need to play a game thats less involving, that requires less of your attention, that isnt as hyped up. Then maybe you wont feel the need to spend your time trashing the game on forums, and might just get on with your lives... maybe you could go for a nice walk, take up swimming, join a club and meet some people. The options are endless. And you can even pretend its a game if you want! No one will mind if on your birthday you announce you have just levelled up and are now.. well, you get the idea.

Now, take a deep breath, log off the forum, make a nice coffee, pop on a film, and relax. (Dont put on Starwars, it will just make you angry again).

Sorted? Excellent :)

Except this isn't true. For the most part it's the same old people criticizing, and it's the same old people defending. Except that the people who criticize seem to think that if they post enough they can prove they were right that the game would fail even before the game has a chance to do so in any real meaningful way. The next three months will tell the tale with the upcoming month being an important month as the free time of everyone that bought the game at launch expires. I still think the game will succeed because whatever the faults of this game, which yes they do exist, I'm still having fun but only time will tell.

Edit: oh, and I agree with  the posters above, at this point Bioware is damned if they do and damned if they don't whatever they do.

Originally posted by MikeB

It's not too easy if you're stubborn about your companion picks! Picking a DPS companion when you're a paper tiger yourself can be really rough when fighting gold elite mobs in your story. The game wants you to use your tank or healer companion, but I tend to use the ones I feel fit my character best.

I was pretty much doing the same thing until I got into the level 40s. My character is a JK sentinel and for the most part I used Kira, but when I got into the level 40s she just wasn't viable for the tougher fights anymore.

Originally posted by oobla

Originally posted by Gruug

Originally posted by oobla

I like this game but I find the mobs are far too easy to kill with the companion . Its a major reason why I eventually left WoW because I like some challenge in an mmo . Most of the time I either dismiss him or send him off on missions . I think had they placed the two sides in each others paths earlier on in the game I would have seen some use for the companions while leveling but given that doesn't happen they seem to make the game a cake walk if you use then .

On a side note why didn't they introduce random space battles while travelling from one planet to another in a similar sort of way you get in Dragon Age ? It is StarWars for god sake a franchise where a huge amount of the action takes place in space .

I'm enjoying this game for what it is but so much that could have been done and should have been done seems to have been overlooked and it appears to be another mmo which offers easy mode game play while questing .

 

 

You are not "forced" to take your companion with you to quest. You CAN dismiss them at any time.

Secondly, what level are you playing at? At low levels, mobs are somewhat easy. Once you pass level 20 and then 30 they get more difficult. I solo when my friends are not on with a different character. I am level 39 at the moment. I an fighting mobs that are 3 to 4 levels below me (35 to 36) and they are a challenge even with my companion.

I did say I dismiss the companion and send him on missions . So no you are not forced at all to play with him . I'm level 22 at the moment .

The mobs become progressively harder the higher level you go. It's not something you really notice until you suddenly find yourself struggling and don't quite know why. But they have said all along that difficulty rises as you level, so yeah, things are meant to be pretty easy at your level.

Originally posted by bobfish

SWTOR does have RvR, it happens on Ilum, or is supposed to.

It needs a lot of work, but at least they've made an effort and not left it out completely.

Ilum is not, nor has ever been intended to be rvr. Faction versus faction is not the same thing as realm versus realm and Ilum is open world faction versus faction.

Edit: After double checking I suppose It could techincally be the same thing, but as I understand the mechanics involved in DAOC, this isn't it.

Originally posted by Talemire

Oh yeah, Neverwinter Nights :) Looking quite forward to that one. I've alwayes enjoyed the single player NWN.

Other than the setting I doubt they have anything in common.

Originally posted by tank017
I find it humorous that Ohlson said that."We knew there would be people out there that would want ToR to fail"......or maybe they wanted it to do well so badly,but the game ultimately let them down in the end?....I dunno,just a thought..

All you have to do is go back and look at the threads in these forums to know that what he said was true. People have wanted this game to fail for a multitude of reasons anywhere from it's not a sandbox to they believe it somehow competes with their favorite MMO or upcoming MMO. Heck, there are a lot of people who want it to fail simply because it's an EA game and they hate all things EA.