Originally posted by TweFoju

know what? imagine EVE + SW TOR

epic as hell, i would give my life to it

 I would rather imagine Jumpgate Evolution + SWTOR to be honest. Eve is not a space shooter at all. If you can't fly your ship, I won't be playing a "space" MMO

EDIT spelling

I like Bp for different reasons than jumpgate. Jumpgate is pay to play atm, and its more the MMO I am looking for, but BP looks good for a more shoot em up style with less MMO traits. I will probably play both and see what they are like.

Originally posted by flaZh

LOL, so you mean I could pre-order it before it's even planned, then? Haha.. What kind of noob game is that sh*t?

Are you new to MMO? This sort of thing is standard. Things like Beta, being free and for testing purposes, are not a right players are given. You apply, and if they need some testers you have a chance of getting in. As for preorder, some games allow pre order a year before launch, others don't. I don't think Jumpgate does though.

The game is looking better and better all the time. Thanks for posting these.

Guys, not sure if you have read these two articles yet, but they have some real nice hands on reviews from 2010 E3. I'll quote one section below because it stood out in my mind

"If we had to explain the game's space combat in one word, we'd say fast. You're not just zipping around in space: You're also spinning, rolling, and twisting in every possible direction to dodge shots or get behind your target. The game's controls are extremely responsive (we had to nudge the sensitivity down to keep it from being too twitchy) and easy to get used to."

http://www.massively.com/2010/06/18/e3-2010-a-look-inside-black-prophecy/

http://www.tentonhammer.com/events/e3/2010/black-prophecy-preview

I agree with you mate. Factional rvr is always to be preferred over the more simplistic shoot em up style.

Edit spelling

I felt the following was newsworth so pasted it below. It comes from an interesting "competitor news" thread on the official Black Prophecy forums. I have no way to verify the information, but it "seems" real to me and the guy seems honest.

In the F&F testing, things were very complicated regarding trade routes, stations, and the death/spawn system. NetDevil was very eager to test waters with an instanced game, but at the same time they also wanted to incorporate a lot of system-system travel for all factions like in JG Classic. This was a very tough act to follow when you had to balance so many things. It was practically impossible to guess how it would work out, so all they had to go on was to actually try it out. That's when we came in.

To be honest, I was shocked at how unbalanced everything was. Trade routes were near impossible due to story missions being in the way. If you were a freighter you were forced to have 2 or more people guide you all the way to the next station due to the instanced battles along the way. In theory, they knew it would be tough to deal with. Being a trade specialist (aka I MAKE MONEY) was going to be very rough. Ofcourse I'd split the profits with my assistants once I completed the trade mission, but quite often I'd find myself getting killed by the NPCs, let alone the PvPers in the unregulated space. You can forget about it.

Death was another thing. With the game design they had incorporated, it's understandable that there were such heavy penalties upon death. In some ways it was easy to make money; but you had to travel in packs of 10. Usually 3 freighters, 7 fighters to guide you. I only did this once, but the payout was HUUUGGE. It's hard to explain how the dynamics worked, but it was very unique, and I'm not going to go into it just in case they still have this feature in-game. I really liked it. But it can be abused. With the newer features that are being talked about at E3, I think they've resolved it.

Now however, there are no more instances. Anybody can see anybody. Free-for-all PvP. Open space. Tons of upgrades for ships. They've made a new system dynamic so that friendly NPC fighters help you out in a story mission if there's a lack of players in the area. NetDevil really has their act together. They've pulled a lot from the game in order to create this new dynamic for it. It's really not the same game anymore, and I really like it so far (I can't wait until the new F&F starts). This is a big relief taken from the community's shoulders.

Believe me, from what I've seen of Black Prophecy, it had absolutely no bearing on Jumpgate: Evolution's decision to go back to the drawing board. There was a few major reasons for their decision, and their main one was balance. The way they had the beacon tuning, instances, death/trade system caused big issues regarding long-term balance. There were ofcourse smaller issues; but those could have been fixed over time. But they didn't have the time when it came to the account of the balance issues, which just wasn't possible to fix and still have the other problems fixed in cooperation with eachother. They negated eachother. If they were to fix them both, it's very hard to explain so I'll use a baseball analogy:

Pitcher throws a screwball, very unique pitch. Very easy to hit once you know what it's going to do. In order to fix it, the pitcher has to make it turn into a curve ball mid-flight. It's just not possible.

So he threw a slider instead.

I think I like the Octavians best. Thanks for the link.

Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by Lobotomist

Originally posted by Salvatoris

The dev post specifically mentions removal of features, it doesn't just say they changed things.  It reads like an obituary of depth.  He says they had a great core space combat system, they wanted to add features to give people what they expect from a modern MMO, but they couldn't make it work so they had to cut a bunch of things.  Maybe we focused on different parts, but all I got from reading that was that features have been cut.

 

Basically here is the truth

The game was supposed to be Freelancer/Elite Online  (like original Jumpagate was)  , later they decided to throw some instanced WOW battlegrounds like scenarios.

Than suddenly they figured they can not support non instanced battles with lot of players in same place.

So they decided to remove Freelancer/Elite part.

And what we have is instanced battles in WOW like scenarios in space.

My understanding was the exact opposite. That they shifted away from the instanced battle and focused more on open content using instances only for practice and scripted missions. In fact they mentioned somewhere about how the "flight simulator" bits that were going to be instanced have had all the rewards stripped out and you need to take part in open warfare for them now. 

Regarding the graphics, personally I don't think they're bad at all. Different style than BP/Eve, but not bad. 

 You are correct. They reduced instancing to a few battlegrounds and the simulater. But don't forget, this was before they went silent. We don't know if they're still doing the rvr capture zone in open space or not. I really hope they are, but perhaps their engine couldn't handle the load of mass battles in open rvr? I got the impression (no facts though) that the devs are now using a new engine. They didn't exactly say so or name it in the letter, but they throw in the term "core" which to me means the engine.

So if they did update/license a new engine, then used their old models in it they would get essentially what they say they now have--a game that resembles the JGE we know about, but one that is very different now. E3 will blow the entire thing wide open.

My real problem at the moment is keeping straight what we know/don't know about JGE now. So many of my "facts" are just guesses again. I wish they would give us an info dump so that we can be where we were (information wise) a year ago.

Originally posted by Kordesh

BP, at least from their original explanation of it, is essentially nothing more than Guild Wars in space. You have a central space station as a hub, and all the missions are launched instances from that hub. Couple that with it being F2P and it's dead to me.

Part of the delay with JGE from what I've heard was to make it a bit less instanced and more open regarding the PvP. I don't mind scripted instances, but it's too far when the entire game world revolves around them. I'm not 100% convinced this is going to work out that well given how long they're keeping it in development (time is slipping by) but I'm rooting for them. People are complaining already about how it's not going to stand up to Eve because of the graphics which is a stupid argument. It doesn't need to look better than Eve (and in it's own style, it does look pretty good as is) it just needs to play better. If they can provide a space game that has interactive combat, doesn't revolve around filling your wallet, and is more of an actual game than a social metagame of Plex trading and multiboxing, I'm all in.

 I actually agree with you about gameplay over graphics, but I'm going to play Devil's Advocate here for a minute.

If JGE's graphics look old or outdated, players will belive the entire game is that way and won't stick around. Players are very fickle beings. They all want to play the next big thing thing, the new popular thing all their freinds are playing. look at the old jumpgate now. It plays really well but looks ancient. Not many play it any more.

Now back to me.

Players want things to look shiny and gorgeous. I know its not the shinies that make the game fun in the end, or make me stay longer than a few months, but I don't think I am a typical gamer in that. After all, I still fiddle around with WAR and never did care that everyone hated the graphics in that game. Even WOW, which I played for years from luanch was criticised for its style, but I loved it it until I didn't anymore. I read SWTOR forums as well, and still there are people crying about crap graphics there!

This graphics over gameplay thing will never go away.

Originally posted by Tarka

 

 I don't know how it will all turn out, but the BP forums is talking about this right now. Seems there won't be a player run economy?? From what I can tell, the game will all be about combat, which lets face it is very very important, but i want the world the game exists in to have more to it than a shoot em up feel. I would like an elite type of feel with trading, where you can run goods from one place to another and make profit by supplying stations etc. Also, the dogfighting of wing commander/privateer, added to that an rvr  system for faction war so that we can control and defend stations/zones.

 

I maybe want too much, but aiming high isn't a bad thing is it?

You'll get no argument from me on that score.  I agree that space combat is a major element in a space based MMO, however it shouldn't be the only element in it. 

To me, X3 is a very good example of a foundation that could be turned into an in-depth space based MMO.  Factions. Dynamic economy.  Story arcs.  Dog fights.  Faction missions.  Salvaging.  Crafting.  Owning a fleet of ships.  Well established IP and background story.   Its all there.  The ongoing storyline wouldn't have to be centred around the player, but it could be replaced with an ongoing "world" storyline with dev made events that could be reported on the main website which help to shape the future of the story arcs.  To be honest, it baffles me why Egosoft hasn't entertained the idea.

 Maybe its money that holds them back. Writing a story takes a lot of time, and a neverending story must take a lot of time. The money needed to start that, and continue it for the life of the game must be stagering. Still, server events are always WIN in my opinion...well maybe with one proviso. They shouldn't be like the current WAR events, where everyone simply spams the same sc over and over until they are sick of it (and neglecting other parts of the game)

Originally posted by Tarka

Originally posted by impulsebooks

i am watching Black prophecy as well as JGE, and of the two games BP looked (until now) more  impressive graphically, but I agree there is no depth. If all you want is pvp fights, or PVE battles in quests then ok, but JGE "seems" to me to still be a proper MMO. At least i hope so. We know so little now, but already in BP the info seems to point to a game with no economy at launch, no crafting at launch, and very few "standard" mmo features.

I will try it out ofc. Its free, so why not? BUT JGE is more likely to be a long term game for me

 I've seen people mention a lack of crafting and economy synergy before, but the FAQ suggests otherwise:

http://www.blackprophecy.com/index.php?id=67#c277

Will Black Prophecy have some kind of crafting system like other MMOs have?

Yes, Black Prophecy will offer a sophisticating crafting system that allows to craft nearly any items available in the game.

 

My main concern about both games is that they will be predominantly pvp based with very little thought gone into PVE, just like Eve.  But, the fact that BP has a storyline written by a recognised author, and the fact that PVP doesn't require such things, gives me hope.

 I don't know how it will all turn out, but the BP forums is talking about this right now. Seems there won't be a player run economy?? From what I can tell, the game will all be about combat, which lets face it is very very important, but i want the world the game exists in to have more to it than a shoot em up feel. I would like an elite type of feel with trading, where you can run goods from one place to another and make profit by supplying stations etc. Also, the dogfighting of wing commander/privateer, added to that an rvr  system for faction war so that we can control and defend stations/zones.

I maybe want too much, but aiming high isn't a bad thing is it?

i am watching Black prophecy as well as JGE, and of the two games BP looked (until now) more  impressive graphically, but I agree there is no depth. If all you want is pvp fights, or PVE battles in quests then ok, but JGE "seems" to me to still be a proper MMO. At least i hope so. We know so little now, but already in BP the info seems to point to a game with no economy at launch, no crafting at launch, and very few "standard" mmo features.

I will try it out ofc. Its free, so why not? BUT JGE is more likely to be a long term game for me

Originally posted by Ocllo

ne1 get the feeling that JGE will just be World of Warcraft in space? I mean after watching all  the developer videos and reading a good number of interviews, World of Warcraft in space is what I got out of it.

Change means change, it doesn't mean remove (though that's obviously what happens when you take something out and replace it with something else) . The changes MIGHT be good, but who knows? They were prompted by player feedback, so I am hopeful the changes are good and necessary. The thing is, until E3 and more info, we are now watching a game we know nothing about.

Its in space: check

It has 3 factions: check

And that's all we know now. We can guess it still has extensive pvp but we are guessing. Does it still have rvr, does it have battlegrounds or is it all open pvp? Is the pve all solo orientated, or is it group based? We don't know. Is the crafting good, is their player built ships and economy? Can we build stations like before etc etc.

I hope we get rvr and captuarable zones, player built ships, player owned AND flown cap ships, guild owned ships, a decent economy too. Black prophecy will surely be out before this game, and although I like some parts of it, I am turned off by the rumours of massive instancing. Also the shop can damage pvp if not controlled well. So I am still watching JGE.

Before they went dark it was the usual monthly subscription. As far as i know, it hasn't changed but from that letter I get the impression a great deal else about the game has. They keep saying it may look similar to screenshots and vids they released previously, but the mechanics and stuff "under the hood" is a lot different.

Soundss like they kept all the models, but changed how those are used. That's a lot of work and the cost to redo it all must have been crazy. I guess it shows their determination to make a good game though.

They will be releasing new vids etc now they are "public" again. I hopw to see cap ships player battles etc, but E3 will really be the proof I think. They are taking the game on the road and the lucky few will (hopefully) fill us in about what they found. In the letter he did say E3 won't be the only oppertunity to try the game, which they say is playable condition again.

Just read the following at the officail forum. It seems the devs are coming back into the light with news and updates. From now on, they will be updating us regularly again. The game has undergone massive changes it seems, and testing is beginning with freinds and family again. So we are back to where they "left off" with regular info last year .

###pasted from official forums ###

Long before I joined the company, when NetDevil set out to build Jumpgate Evolution in 2007, they started with what was considered to be a relatively simple goal: to update the original Jumpgate for a modern audience. They wanted to retain the game’s core - a player-driven space MMO with realistic physics and combat - while expanding the scope to incorporate many of the aspects of modern MMOs.

Back then, many original Jumpgate players probably felt the same way that NetDevil did; that while updating the original game would be a difficult task, it wouldn’t be an impossible one. It was your support that kept the development team going, and the team tried to repay that support by bringing some of those early fans into Jumpgate Evolution’s first round of Friends & Family testing.

As we all now know, that initial round of testing exposed a hard truth about the ‘relatively simple goal’ of updating Jumpgate to become Jumpgate Evolution. While the core game experience of intense space-based combat was still solid, the reality was that as the team scaled up to let in more testers, things started to go wrong. Jumpgate Evolution’s modern ambitions exceeded Jumpgate’s old-school capabilities, and we knew we were not as close to launch as we needed to be.

That is when the team made the crucial decision to completely overhaul JGE’s game systems, while also refocusing specifically on the game play experience we wanted to make: space warfare on a massive scale.

It was a difficult choice to throw away what didn’t work and only keep and improve what did. One of the hardest things for a team to do is to throw away work, because it’s wasted time and effort, but in order for us to make this game the amazing experience we knew it could be, we had to let go of some things and push forward.

In order to achieve all of this, NetDevil made the decision to invest more in the game. We brought on additional staff members to ensure that Jumpgate Evolution’s vision remained strong and that the team could focus and gain momentum. They started with me, and since then I’ve been very fortunate to add a number of other key team members who you’ll get to meet (several in person, if you’re coming to E3) in the months ahead.

At the same time, we ‘went dark’ and stopped our regular flow of information. Why? Because there simply wasn’t anything we could talk about with absolute confidence.

We couldn’t discuss game features, because we were no longer sure what would make it into the game and what wouldn’t. We couldn’t talk about story, because it was being completely rewritten. There was so much that we wanted to share, but things were just at too early of a stage to discuss without the risk of disappointing you, our community. When we announce something, we ought to be as confident as possible that it will stay in the game – although in game development, there are no guarantees.

When we went back to the drawing board we needed the freedom to discard anything that was getting in the way of our vision for the game, so we gave ourselves that freedom by choosing not to discuss things before we were ready. We've also learned our lesson about announcing timelines too early. We’ve burned you before with that, and don’t want to burn you again.

I’m going to be honest with you and tell you something that may be difficult to hear: what you saw and heard of Jumpgate Evolution before now may have little bearing on the actual game we're going to deliver. When we went into that dark period to redesign much of the game, much was thrown away and new needs came to light, but we ultimately ended up with a much clearer vision of what we want Jumpgate Evolution to be, as well as the path to get there.

Now we’re finally ready to begin showing you what we’ve been working on. What you’ll see may look and feel similar on the surface, but it's what’s inside that counts. We’ve reached a level of confidence in our game that we didn’t have the first time around, and we’re much stronger for it.

Some of you are going to ask the obvious question: why should we believe you? Well, the proof is now in the game itself. You can experience it in the hands-on demo we’ll be bringing around the convention circuit this year. The stuff you’ll see in the demo is actual working tech from our current build. It’s real and shows off working features that will be in the game at launch. While most of you won’t be able to try the game out at E3, we are planning on being at other conventions this year. Hopefully many of you will get the chance to play it and see for yourselves that we’re on the right track.

Consider this to be a new beginning to our information flow. Anything you’ve seen up to this point may or may not still exist in the game, and all those details will come out in time. Right now we’re restarting with the story of the three warring nations, the very reason why you’ll be fighting in Jumpgate Evolution. After that we’ll be revealing more game information, and eventually, of course, we’ll get into Beta. Before that, however, we’ll return to the people who put us on this path in the first place, as we re-deploy our Friends & Family testing.

We can’t express how grateful we are for the community that we have. You guys have stuck with us through trying times, and we’re very excited to be able to start re-engaging with you and providing fresh game info, screenshots, videos, etc. We still have a long road ahead of us, but we know we couldn't have gotten this far without you. So thank you…

… and we’ll see you in space!

Lance Robertson
Executive Producer, Jumpgate Evolution

Just saw in another thread that Amazon cancelled his preorder and no longer sell/offer a preorder. Maybe Jumpage Evo is going F2p like Black prophecy... <ducks for cover>