I recently re-subbed to this game. It was my first MMO and coming back I’m glad to see it’s still a lot of fun. Here are a few simple things I’d like to see them do:

Originally posted by Nicoli

Originally posted by batolemaeus 

 

You're one of the few people who actually know that one then. I haven't met a lot of people who know that feature.
There are a lot of features like that one in eve by the way. Few people know that you can move the locked targets, deactivate offensive mods by clicking on the little icons next to the target they are activated on, reorder targets horizontally..etc.

Another one that i found fairly irritating is that a lot of people seem to have avatars enabled in chat windows, which takes up an incredible amount of space.

And then there are small things. Like people who do not reorder fitted modules in their neocom. It's so much better to have the most important modules on f1-f4 in my opition. And then there are all the little overview tweaks, shield/armor/hull readouts, overview column options..the list goes on.

Admittedly though, most of it isn't really documented well.

WAIT A MINUTE.....  WTF!!! god damn I wish I knew that...... 5+ years.... god damn it...  really wish I was joking. On a side note if you get a chance send my a PM with how to reorder the targets the first one is pretty damn self-explanitory... though this whole line of thought reminds me of a convo in the back of a EON magazine where a guy didn't realize the 3 Yellow arrows is the undock button... for 3 years....

Hot damn! I didn't know that stuff either. Batolemaeus, could you be a sport and send me a PM with that info too? Or a link to where I might find it? Cheers!
 

Originally posted by WizardBlack

Originally posted by donmaximo

Originally posted by WizardBlack

LOL, and it goes round and round. As always.

The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum.

The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL.

How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands...

Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can  you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.

 

New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.

What?

You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!

Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?

I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?

I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?

Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!

Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
 

 

Actually, smart@55, I said be competitive. Not wipe everyone out  in anything you try to do. At least you admit it, thank you. That is all I have been after; give the new guys some realistic expectations. Some of these guys lure new players in with the expectation that they're gonna pirate in nulsec or 'run with the big boys' in short order and it isn't so.

What does “be competitive” mean? The way you described it sounded very much like flying around and dominating everything (PvP, PvE, trade, industry, etc). Your notion of “running with the big boys” is very much a WoW-type thought process that has no place in EvE. What do you mean by “big boys”? People in big ships? I’m sure you can find plenty of asshats flying big ships that bought their EvE characters and have no idea what they’re doing. I guess you can fly around with them, if it makes you feel better to see big ships, but it’s not going to get you very far.

T1 can certainly “be competitive” in low or null sec, and achieve way more than a few kills, if they play smart and use sound tactics. Are you going to fly around in your T1 frig and wipe the floor with well equipped and skilled (player and character) battleships? No. But you sure as hell can pick a target from the plethora of uninformed players that follow advice like yours, and buy characters that can fly ships and use modules they have no clue how to operate effectively.

A new player could also do a little research and find a pirate corp that accepts new players, at which point they can certainly pirate null sec in a gang of experienced PvPers (and not simply be cannon fodder). Here are links to two such corps:

Blood Money Cartel http://www.bloodmoneycartel.net/forum/index.php?sid=c1ac698c8198c09b4bd810c4fac7b520

The Tuskers
http://tuskers.eve-gamers.co.uk/viewforum.php?f=22&sid=8f4d05e2020a77d83814fe80afbfe02e

No, all things being equal, a new player will be unlikely to achieve the skill (player and character), ISK and assets of another player who started playing years before them, in 6 months time. But EvE isn’t about max-level, or being epic’d out. It’s about building your own name doing something that you enjoy, and doing it well. Are there always going to be those that are better than you? Probably. Why is that a bad thing? If nothing else, it means you’ll always have something else to improve on.

 

Originally posted by WizardBlack

LOL, and it goes round and round. As always.

The bottom line is that you have to buy a character or tag along and be a disposable 'tackler' (real entertaining, that one, you basically consume a few seconds and a few shots/missiles/volleys of the opposing player) or eat training time for a few years, minimum.

The only decent argument I saw was someone running PvE and barely got caught by another player with less time in. The only thing is, the attacking player was probably fitted for PvP (tactics to the newer player, sure), but the new player was in for 1.75 years versus five. LOL.

How many ppl looking into starting up Eve wanna be competitive in 2 years? Raise your hands...

Yes, there are a finite number of skills. I doubt even the 1.75 year player had everything maxed that addressed the ship he was flying. Even if it was T1. T1 is not competitive in 0.0. Can  you make a few kills? Sure if you luck out and have a good corp. But you are gonna be buying ISK to keep yourself fitted. Can you make lots of money in Eve? Sure, but you can't be training to be 'competitive' in some as yet undefined period of mere months in PvP and still be training all your indy skills or trade skills to be decent at trading.

 

New Players: It requires both player skill AND character skill (which is lots of time or money) to be competitive in lowsec or nulsec. Don't let any of these guys fool you. If you have a nice corp, you might make some sort of contribution in about 6~9 months. Otherwise, you'll be told to play the role of cannon fodder if they even let you in. Most have SP minimums right up front.

What?

You mean that I can't join this game...play for 6 months, and be just as skilled (player and character) as another character that's 5 years in?!?!

Players that have been playing longer are (generally) going to have more money, friends, assets, and (character) skill than me?!?!?

I can't train to be the best trader, PvPer, miner, PvE missioner, etc all at the same time?!?!?

I can't drink copious amounts of Mountain Dew and stay up for 8 weeks straight to become the leetest, epic'd out, pewpew wtfpwner of all of EvE history?!?!?

Man, this game sucks. You should be able to power-level (?) to max competitiveness, attain all epic’d out purples, and wtfleetroflmaogtfopewpewpwn all the noobs in 3 months max!

Sigh. I wish they made a game like that...
 

Originally posted by alldfart

Originally posted by HYPERI0N

Originally posted by alldfart

I think my screenshot partially answers your question. No it doesant Do you want me to add EVEMon and EFT screenshots? And what has EVE mon and EFT have to do with the game itself?

Can you play the game without spending a good chunk of time in them? Honestly?

These are basically what you see most of the time in the game only if you poorly manage your hud and zoom out 300km all the time, not the nice green "This Is EVE".

In PVP you don't have choice. You HAVE to zoom out. Zoom in only for nice screenshots for forums.

About the hud, it could be even worse, you might have to monitor local, fleet chat, couple of security channels, corp chat, fleet window, drones, overview of course.

 

 

 

 

 

Despite the obviousness of the obvious troll, I just couldn’t help myself:

I play EvE on a Mac, which does not support EvEMon or EFT. Yet, I’m reasonably successful in-game, and enjoy playing EvE quite a bit. Both of those programs are tools that you can use to help you sort information and plan your experience in EvE, but unless you’re one of the many brainwashed max-level-mongers of the WoW breed, you’d realize that EvE is not about max-level. So the added efficiency provided by EvEMon and EFT are a luxury, not a requirement. Doing some old fashioned research will get you just as far.

I do the majority of my PvP in a T1 frig in low-sec. Since frigs are very small, and use the onboard scanner quite a bit to hunt potential targets, zooming out to 300km is completely unfeasible. My camera usually rests at about 10-15k off my ship. Further, I find blob fleet PvP very, very boring. The quick reaction time, tactics, and action in general of frig-based PvP is much more exciting. Frig-based PvP is also cheap, and very accessible. There are several pirate corps out there that recruit low SP pilots and train them up.

My HUD typically consists of one chat-box for “corp”, “alliance”, “ransom”, and “private chat” and another above it for “fleet” and “local” chat. “Fleet” chat is generally unused in fleet PvP because if you’re doing fleet PvP w/o Vent, you’re dead already (if you’re doing any sort of gang PvP w/o Vent you’re not being very smart). As for those other chats, if you really find you need to have them in view at all times, you should probably being hanging out on MSN chat and not playing EvE.
I also sport the overview in the right upper corner. My overview has been tweaked to have the following tabs: “PvP”, “missions”, “mining”, and “default”. Each of these tabs is set specifically for the task at hand and shows only the essential info for that task…i.e. they’re not very cluttered. If your overview is cumbersome, you’re doing it wrong.
My drone-bay window is located in the upper left portion of the screen beside the system info (though I rarely fly ships that use drones). It’s small and out-of-the-way, as this window really doesn’t require that much size to be useful.

If you do happen to enjoy large fleet PvP, then seeing your one small ship take up your entire screen probably isn’t your main joy anyway. Those types of players likely enjoy being zoomed out to 100k and managing the tactics and micro-tactics of a fleet-wide assault.

alldfart: If you’re not a troll, which I highly doubt, you’d be well served to learn some basic functions of a game before launching your sorry attempts at “saving” the public from it.

Cheers!

 

Originally posted by crapricot

Just stop. How long does it take to get into a Dreadnought, and fly it perfectly (and it does take one to experience the "end-game")? In WoW, you CAN reach max level and hit the gear cap in less than a year, if not half. Gold is a non-issue, and I don't see how alts come into the equation. Don't tell me a maxed Dreadnought is comparable to a maxed Frigate as a "character".

What it comes down to is that in other games you can close the gap between yourself and a veteran player, because your progression is directly proportional to your actual playtime and effort. In EVE, the best you can hope for is that other players unsubscribe periodically.
 

As already stated, you fail at comprehending EvE.

In other news:

I am always confused by this need to ‘catch up’ (or another WoW favorite – ‘have balanced classes’).

Veteran players have more ISK, skills, and experience than new ones?!?!

A player that began playing EvE in 2006 will (generally) perpetually have a larger skill point pool than one that started in 2009?!?!

Why are these things so shocking?

I started playing EvE in 2008. I’ve tried my hand at various professions (mining, couriering, exploring, and PvP), so my skills are somewhat spread out. Currently I’m fitting T1 frigs and roaming solo through lowsec looking for people to ransom. I get blown up a lot (especially because I’m still learning) but I also scanned down and jumped in on a veteran pirate from the Tuskers sitting at a planet and popped his Incursus with my Rifter (both T1 frigs). Know why? Because he was fit with short-range blasters and I was fit with Auto Cannons and Barrage Ammo – which meant that knowing my tactics and orbiting him at the edge of his weapon range allowed me to take him out with little-to-no damage to my ship i.e. right tools and tactics for the scenario, regardless of skill points.

To play EvE you must get over the idea of ‘max level’, ‘catching up’, and ‘balanced characters’ that are typically appropriated from other MMO’s. Play the game to enjoy it, not to be ‘the best’, and you’ll get WAY more out of it. In my experience, 9 times out of 10, knowledge and tactics wins the day over skill points.

As an aside: Check out The Blood Money Cartel. It’s an EvE pirate Corp that pretty much exclusively fly T1 frigs – and they kill a lot of big ships in those frigs.
 

OP, you have some misconceptions about the nature of EvE PvP, which many of the above posts have done a good job clarifying. EvE is very unlike WoW, so it’s best to not try and compare the two (though I understand your reasons behind doing so).

If you want fast and furious, easily accessible PvP I suggest focusing on becoming a competent Frigate pilot. It’s the kind of thing that’s pretty quick to get started in, but can take a long time to master (even with lots of skills trained to 5).

Below are two links to pirate Corps, which may interest you:

Blood Money Cartel:
http://www.bloodmoneycartel.net/forum/index.php?sid=c1ac698c8198c09b4bd810c4fac7b520

Tuskers:
http://tuskers.eve-gamers.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2

Piracy might not be your cup of tea, but both links contain some very useful guides to help you: Get fitted properly and understand the mechanics/tactics of Frig PvP.

Good luck…and welcome to EvE!
 

Originally posted by illanadan

 And EvE honestly got Game of the Year from MMORPG.com? How the heck did that happen.

Because no other games have tech issues? Come'on man. This sucks for those that are getting the short end of the stick, but it doesn't really sound like CCP is trying to screw anyone. This seems like a lot of overreacting to me.

Originally posted by cosy

Originally posted by donmaximo

I'd hardly qualify that as not caring.

 

if they really care they should manually fix that is just editing a number on the database

I imagine it's a tad more involved than that.

Originally posted by cosy

We have passed all the relevant information on this case on to our Quality Assurance team and they will take a look into the matter and see if they can figure out what exactly went wrong. From their findings, we'll do all we can to prevent an incident such as this one from arising again.

What has already taken place cannot be undone, regrettably. We do understand the inconvenience this caused, and is causing, and for that we can only apologize profoundly.

Best regards,
Senior GM Gusto

---

in some words we know there is a bug and dont care about it 

To me, the GM response sounds more like:

We know there's this really bad problem, and we're trying to figure out what went wrong so it doesn't happen anymore. Unfortunately this is a videogame, played on computers and sometimes computers bung stuff up. There's nothing we can do about what's already happened, and for that we're very, very sorry.

I'd hardly qualify that as not caring.

Just my 2 cents.

Bazzyrick,

I tried the EvE trial about 6 times before finally committing to the game, and I haven’t been disappointed. My current character is just over 1 year old and I’ve recently landed in a great Corp that’s full of very friendly and mature players.

All of the drama you hear about EvE is largely overblown or (almost) entirely avoidable. I’m not particularly experienced in PvP, but I’m getting there, and virtually all of my encounters have been along the lines of: I get blown up. I say GF in local and ask for some advice. I get advice, as well as money and/or ships on occasion. In one instance my attacker gave me money to replace the ship and modules I’d lost and then invited me into his Corp. On another I became friends with the guy and he gave me other fitting advice later on.

I can say with confidence that the reason my experience has been positive is largely due to my approach. If I choose to fly around in low sec I accept that I may be attacked. If that happens, I don’t bitch and moan about it, I accept it and ask how I can improve myself. I have a sneaking suspicion that those who relate these horrible stories are probably whiners, or extremely confrontational, when they’re attacked in a similar situation – and in EvE if you choose to put yourself at risk and then cry about getting blown up you’ll get no sympathy. If you’re honestly looking to improve yourself, and realize that in the end it’s just a videogame, you’ll meet lots of friendly people.

Also, about the whole podding thing: If you’re smart, and keep your clone up-to-date, getting podded isn’t that big of a deal. If you have expensive implants use a jump clone when doing something dangerous, or do your best to avoid said danger. Of course it will happen that you lose something valuable (ship, implants, whatever), but it’s that sense of real loss that makes EvE fun – your actions, and the actions of others, have real consequence.

In any event, I’ve come from playing WoW and CoX for many years and can honestly say that the EvE community is far, far better than both of those games. This game is about thinking, strategy, some patience and (ironicly enough, based on some of the above comments) your ability to relate to others. It’s not for everyone, but if you do enjoy it, it can become the best game you’ve ever played. I hope you choose to give it a try and find out for yourself.

Good luck, and fly safe!
 

Originally posted by rubydragon5

Im amazed at how many people dont read half the posts and come to there own assumptions.

The facts:

 

1. CCP perma banned me accusing me of being involved in a hacking of a account because I was given a free item.

2. I showed chatlogs proving I was innocent and the hacked player was giving items to a lot of people in Jita.

3. GM said I am probably innocent from the hacking situation BUT the perma ban remains because I was perma banned in past.

(4.) Last time I was perma banned the GM told me I was allowed to return to the game on a new account as long as I obeyed the EULA.

Its like being someone with a criminal history that served there time but when the shit hits the fan, they get punished even when not wrong because of past issues.

 

Also im wondering if this may of been a blessing in disguise, since I have been banned, my entire house is cleaner, I am making all my dr appointments, and my anxiety has been way down.

Sorry man, but you don’t have much to stand on here.

When you chose (I emphasize this word) to break the rules 2 years ago, you were caught and punished i.e. perma-banned. I’m guessing this previous offence was sufficiently bad, although, you have yet to elaborate on it.

When CCP’s GM offered you the option to restart another account he was being generous. If I were you, I would have kept my nose clean of ANY and ALL suspicious activity in-game, regardless of what any player tried to give/sell/trade me. The onus was on you to keep out of trouble, and doubly so because of your past transgression. You again chose (more emphasis) to engage in accepting a free item, of considerable worth, from another player. No one forced you, and despite all of your claims, considering your circumstance, you should have been extra vigilant in not engaging in any activity that had even the slightest possibility of being illegal. You didn’t do this and, regardless of whether you intended to break the rules or not, were caught in another suspicious act and thus banned once again.

The offer by CCP’s GM was not a contract, it was a favour. Through your own negligence you spat in the face of that favour and so it was revoked.

Your circumstance may be unfortunate (particularly if you were unaware that the item you accepted was stolen), but that does not negate the fact that throughout every step of the process you made the conscious decision to be involved in a potentially illicit exchange. In that regard, you have no one to blame for being banned but yourself.

Sorry.

 

Ofcourse it is subjective! This is a forum and people here state their opinion based on their experience. This is not a science board where things needs to be proven. Opinions about merits of a game is ofcourse subjective, why would it be otherwise? You can choose to accept that or talk about conspiracy theories about me being here to incite people, up to you.
But for the record, I enjoy Eve, but that being said I do not think it is perfect.

Of course you’re entitled to an opinion. My point was that you offer little in the way of evidence to support this opinion. How else can I, or anyone else, refute or debate your statement? You offer nothing substantial to back up your claim. A simple example of how, in your experience, EvE is full of “sociopaths who think they are something special because they are playing a hardcore, sandbox, PvP game” would be nice. Otherwise it’s just a sweeping generalization that doesn’t really contribute much to facilitating a worthwhile conversation about the pros/cons of the in game experience. It’s not the subjectivity alone that makes the comment pointless; it’s the subjectivity without much context. You’ve obviously played the game and have worthwhile experience to share, so why make such a general, unsupported comment and then get so defensive?

I think it does. Why?
Warp scramblers are twice as powerful than warp stabiliziers and webbers are more powerful than afterburners and less demanding than microwarprives (which are completely shut down by warp scramblers). This makes it so that a ganker always has the upper hand in confrontations.
Focus Fire - Gankers can use focus fire but convoys cannot use "focus defence". Reason is that logistic ships in this game are crap. They have zero defence so, even though they can protect others, they cannot protect themselves. Which means that in PvP they are quickly taken care of.
Gatecamping with warp bubbles - Very hard to defend against and a very good tool for gankers to use.
Cloaking - Very few ships can use cloaking, so again gankers can use it to gank people but haulers/miners/ratters cant use it to defend themselves since there are very few ships, or non, that can haul/mine(rat and can cloak. But there are many ships who can cloak and gank.
No big penalty for ganking - If you gank then stay away from high sec space and thats it (but have your friends and alts help you with any bussiness you have in high sec place). Wow, great way of preventing people from ganking.
So basically Eve is a PvP game yes, but it gives far more tools to gankers than to people that wants to protect themselves from being ganked. Hence it promotes ganking.

These are some very detailed points. Although I’d still have to say I fundamentally disagree. I’ve been playing EvE for a few years on and off, and I’ve never been “ganked” unless I put myself into a situation where it was a possibility i.e. mining, ratting or salvaging, etc in 0.4 or less. So, I’d say EvE gives you plenty of opportunity to avoid being “ganked”. Many of the modules that you mention are PvP modules (cloaking device, warp scram, warp stab, webber) so it reasons that if a player is fitting these things they’re entering into what they already know is a dangerous scenario with the potential for PvP to occur. If you enter low sec unprepared to aggress against possible attackers you’re in trouble. This is clearly understood by virtually all players in EvE. I’d say that this promotes the danger and lawlessness of low sec, not “ganking”.

Who are you to tell what the developers want to and need to do? I dont know what world you live in but in my world CCP is a private company and as such income and revenues should be their first priority, and that includes both catering to existing players AND attract new people. The fact that Eve has grown from 50k to 300+k subcribers is a sign that they get that (but apparently not you).

Ah, semantics. Granted my choice of phrasing was poor as you’re right, I don’t work for CCP, and I’ve never seen their Mission Statement or their annual strategic plan. Obviously increasing revenue is a top priority. However, I never claimed they didn’t want to attract new players (perhaps re-read my post and pay particular attention to the portion in brackets) but I imagine they want to attract the kind of players that will enjoy the type of game that EvE is already, not the kind that want them to alter it to meet their personal enjoyment criteria. The growth you state is a perfect example of how CCP appears satisfied with slow, steady growth that attracts the niche players that their game is designed for.

However I think they can do better than that by catering to even more people. And I dont know where you get this "altering" of existing game. I dont see how improving the UI and adding character avatars would alter the game, it would improve and add to the game experience.

This is getting redundant. If you’ve played EvE for as long as you have you’d be quite aware that CCP constantly improves the UI with expansions (Dominion is a perfect example with improvements to the mail system, people and places tab, etc). What you’re talking about is a UI overhaul to change it from being based primarily on point-and-click and dropdowns. This is a huge undertaking. Also, it returns us to the argument of: if you don’t like a game that uses a point-and-click interface with dropdowns, why play EvE? I liken this to someone saying that they really love motorcycles – the tight control, the open-air, etc but that they bought a sedan and are really unhappy with it – if only the sedan could lose two wheels, get a bit smaller and easier to maneuver, and lose the enclosed driving space. This would improve the sedan tremendously. Again, why play a game who’s UI you don’t enjoy, only to complain about not enjoying its UI?

Haha! The miners in my existing corp, and all previous, would disagree. In my experience people mine because they have to (it gives profit) not because they like it. What person in his right mind would like to turn on miner turrets and then go afk for 3 mins while it gathers up the ore?
People who protects those miners I understand might think it is fun but seeing as mining ships are relatively weak combat ships, they cant do much more than mining/hauling. And most people I talked to does it for the good of their corp or profit, not because they like it.

Poor choice of wording here by me again, as I probably shouldn’t have made that sound like such a definitive statement about all players in EvE. I know people that enjoy mining. Often it’s tied to necessity of some other profession, but not always. I also have a good friend that plays EvE who doesn’t do much more than play the market; super boring to me, but something he really enjoys. Personally I don’t mind it, and it can be kind of thrilling to try mining in low sec and make better money, albeit at higher risk. This is all about personal taste. You don’t like it, but some people do. Again, you’re entitled to your opinion much like I’m entitled to disagree.

It is not my job to give the devs detailed schematics on how to improve their game. Again, in my experience, most people who I have talked to thing the sound effects are crap and that the UI is lacking. The restrictive way of what you can map to keyboard is one of the things. The annoying drop down menus is another and so on and forth.

Okay, so let me get this straight. You want a whole whack of aspects to change about the game (UI, sound, mining, hauling, avatars, PvP) but are completely unwilling to offer suggestions (beyond sarcasm) on how to go about “improving” said aspects as it’s not your “job”. You’re right, this is a forum on which people should feel welcome to come and share their opinions about the game, but if you’re not willing to offer anything constructive don’t expect to be taken seriously. I’ve already spent a lot of time responding, and your comment above makes me start to regret the investment. I’m sorry but “the sound effects are crap” and “the UI is lacking” are pretty lame criticisms.

And I played the game when it was released and I can tell you that the sound effects has changed very little and so has the UI.

People with that kind of comment "Dont like feature X,Y,Z then dont play the game" drives me crazy. Who are you to tell me what I do with my spare time? I do what I damn like to do and for me the world is not black and white, 0 or 1 but rather shades of grey. I like Eve but I see many areas of improvments, if you dont like to hear that then why are you visiting a forum which discuesses games? Do you expect to only hear good things about the game or what? Does it hurt your fragile psyche if someone does not like a feature in a game (that is obviously more than a game to you)?

Wow. You’re commenting on my fragile psyche? I think you had better take a minute to re-read your above post. Firstly, I could care less what you do in your spare time, and it has absolutely nothing to do with this conversation. You’re getting all worked up about me defending EvE here, yet simultaneously preaching your right to offer your own opinion on these forums?
Regarding your “improvements”, perhaps a better question would be: If you dislike the ship avatar so passionately, why do you play EvE?

If so then either dont visit game forums and go play the game you love or stfu about telling me what I do with my spare time.

See above comment re: fragile psyche.


I did express valid point about the game which I like (stfu about what I like and dont like, I think I know that better than you). However you are so blind by your fanboyism that you refuse to see any criticism of the game that you love and adore more than life itself, it seems.

Again, wow. Shall I point out the irony in you telling me to “stfu about what I(you) like and dont like” and then telling me (not even one sentence later) that I “refuse to see any criticism of the game you(I) love and adore more than life itself”?

It’s worthwhile to note (considering the below) that up until this point you have not expressed any detailed points as to improvements you’d like to see in the game. The closest you’ve come is a rundown of modules that you think are unfair.

To reiterate (implies having made this statement before, which you haven’t). Area of improvments in Eve:
• Improve the UI. Add freedom to add excactly the keyboard short cut keys you like. Like for launching drones, cycling through hostile/friendly targets. There are tons of things in this game that can only be accessed through menus with the mouse which could easily be mappable to keyboard short cuts.
• Fix the sound effects, they sound bloody awful. Specially the laser sound is so bad a game done on Nintendo 8-bit would sound better.
• Add (observe the add word and not alter) the feature to be able to control your character avatar and do things. Could be just social as walking around on stations but could be more like walking around on planets. Just because Eve is space sci-fi does not disqualify it from being able to interact with planets. What space sci-fi IP have you seen where it was NOT possible to walk around on planets/stations?
The funny thing about you even mentioning this is that ambulation has already been planned for Incarna.
• Allow more tactical options in combat by allowing you to funnel power from shields to weapons to engines and so on. I know you can overcharge but that is not the same thing. Overcharge is just an on/off switch. It does not allow you to move energy from one module to other. Also, shield facing, where you could manevour to fire at a certain part of a ship would allow for more directional tactical choices in combat.
None of these things would change what Eve is but rather improve it. But if it needs to be said, ofcourse it is MY OPINIONS and nothing else. That is what a discussion board is about no? To state your opinions.

Finally, we get to the crux of it! It would have been infinitely easier if you had simply stated some of these points, similarly to how you have above, in the first place.

1.) I agree that some keyboard mapping improvement could be beneficial (granted I don’t really use keymapping at the moment in EvE). I particularly agree with the ability to cycle through hostile/friendly targets. Although I realize that the sheer breadth of things you can do in EvE make keymapping daunting, some better combat-related possibilities would be nice.

2.) Are you referring to mining lasers? I don’t mind the mining laser sound enough to consider it a crucial area of improvement. Actually, although this may be something that some would like changed, I think that in the grand scope of changes it’s pretty far down on the list.

3.) I’m looking forward to ambulation, and have been for a while. Planetary interaction is also on the horizon, albeit only from space (as I understand). Plus, DUST is coming out too, which might cure the desire for walking on planets. I think it’s important though to consider the size of EvE. Allowing players to walk on planets (considering there are thousands) is a monumental undertaking and would put EvE, as far as online “worlds” go, light-years ahead of anyone else. So, I think there’s a reason we haven’t seen it (or heard of it) on that scale.

4.) These points are interesting. Yet, I can’t help but think that these types of additions would only be feasible with the “dumbing down” of some other combat features (as otherwise it would just be too much to handle). Shield facing is something that would be particularly interesting, although the nature of combat in EvE might not suit this, as it seems more synonymous with “twitch” based control.
 

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Kordesh

Originally posted by Sheista

Blahblahblah standard "I'm just going to make up what I want to hear so I can complain some more" bullshit.

Did I mention part of what makes Eve so hard to love is that half of the community is completely intolerable?

Whatever. Cya.  

I completely agree. I like Eve but a large proportion of the community are just elitists jerks. One of the worst communities I have seen in an MMORPG was in AoC because of all the immature children but Eve is full of sociopaths who think they are something special because they are playing a "hardcore, sandbox, PvP" game.

Maybe it is because Eve actually promotes the griefing type of gameplay, I dunno, but there is something with a big proportion of the Eve playerbase that I havent seen in other games.

That being said, the game itself is probably the only good sandbox MMORPG out there. Shame though that the developers are reluctant to build on that and improve the game so it caters to more people.

And by that I dont means change the way PvP works but rather fix many of the chores in the game (like mining and hauling), improve the UI, fix the sound fx and add real character avatar control, and not just ship control.

I completely agree. I like Eve but a large proportion of the community are just elitists jerks. One of the worst communities I have seen in an MMORPG was in AoC because of all the immature children but Eve is full of sociopaths who think they are something special because they are playing a "hardcore, sandbox, PvP" game.
This is completely subjective and not an actual reflection of any facts about the game. Anyone could say the same thing about any game. Further, how do we know you're not a huge jerk who incites people to be jerks to you? I'm not saying this is the case, I'm just highlighting how the above statement is pointless (in the context of discussion about the merits of EvE as a game) in its subjectivity.

Maybe it is because Eve actually promotes the griefing type of gameplay, I dunno, but there is something with a big proportion of the Eve playerbase that I havent seen in other games.
This is false. EvE does not "promote griefing". It's more a PvP game than a PvE game. CCP, as well as most players, will tell you this. If you don't like PvP, or the possibility of another player killing you, don't play this game.

That being said, the game itself is probably the only good sandbox MMORPG out there. Shame though that the developers are reluctant to build on that and improve the game so it caters to more people.
The developers are not reluctant to cater to more people, they don't want to do this, nor do they need to. EvE is a niche game. CCP constantly improves the game to cater to the niche crowd that play it, and to further attract more players who will enjoy it for what it is. I'm sure any of the players currently playing EvE would agree that there is no desire within the EvE community to cater to "more" people (obviously they want to expand, but they want to attract the kind of people that enjoy this type of game already, not alter it to attract others). If you don't like the game, don't play. Don't expect the game to alter itself to convince you to play.

And by that I dont means change the way PvP works but rather fix many of the chores in the game (like mining and hauling), improve the UI, fix the sound fx and add real character avatar control, and not just ship control.
People that do mining and hauling in EvE do not view it as a chore. They do it because that's the aspect of the game they enjoy. Why would CCP alter the enjoyment of these already paying players, who are having fun, to cater to non-playing players? This makes no sense. Again, this can be applied to the rest of your comment.

The UI and sound can always be improved, and they generally are with each expansion. However, to say that these things need improvement without offering detailed examples of how or why, is pretty useless. EDIT: Saying UI is piss poor because it's mouse-centric and unlike every other MMO out there  is, well, a piss poor observation with little-to-no merit. Sorry.

Also, if you don't like playing with your ship as an avatar, don't play EvE. People that complain about this drive me crazy. The majority of EvE players, although looking forward to Incarna, have absolutely no problem with their avatar being a ship. It's not like EvE fools you into thinking you play as something else and then springs the ship avatar on you. This is the way the game is set up, if you know that you're not going to enjoy it, why sub and then complain?
 

To me, your post seems to reflect the fact that you don't like the type of game that Eve is, rather than offer any valid points about problems with the game itself. Consequently, it's not much use. You won't get much good out of asking someone who doesn't like apples, about apples, when they would prefer that apples were oranges.

Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by donmaximo

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

 

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

 

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

 

And these are the people we are targeting.

This may be true for you, but not for folks like Zorndorf.

I have no issue with defending the game you love…from actual attacks. But, what is really happening most of the time (as I’ve shown with my post and the subsequent response to it) is someone comes on these forums and offers their opinion about the enjoyment (or lack of) that they experienced playing the game; they are then immediately set upon by stat-mongers who seek to debase this opinion at all cost, using such high moral ground as “holding a mirror up” to these posters to show them the error in their opinion.

Often times the defense comes in the form of trying to catch this person in some insignificant conflict or semantic trap. As I stated in the section of my post that you highlighted: these facts and stats do not amount to making opinion or enjoyment of the game obsolete as valid criticism. Also, what these rabid defenders fail to see is that opinion and enjoyment, beyond any stats, facts, links, spreadsheets, etc is what really keeps players coming back.

So if someone states that they don’t enjoy playing anymore, that’s a valid reason in and of itself. Further, it’s this exact criticism and opinion of enjoyment that I’m sure game developers consult when looking to improve the game because, as I’ve said already, that’s the bottom line as to what makes someone continue to play, or not.

People like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.

Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.

Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
 

Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.

If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it.  <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post. 

And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?

Then I see crap like  "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)

I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.

But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game.  Problem with this logic is,,,,,

BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!! 

So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.

Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

Originally posted by donmaximo

I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.

Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.

All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.

The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.

I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.

These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.

Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.

Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
 

You’re response does a very good job of illustrating my exact point.

Also, I hope that wasn’t an attempt to quote me, as I never said that I don’t think WoW is a good game. I said that I don’t enjoy playing it anymore.

Further, your assertion that personal option of the game is worthless shows extreme naivety.

It’s people’s personal option and enjoyment of the game that have a direct result in them continuing to play. Why do you think games like EvE, CoX and even SWG have subs? Because people enjoy playing them, regardless of all of the stats, figures, links, etc that you love to post about why WoW is better.

I would argue that a person’s personal opinion holds far more weight than any “facts” you can drudge up. Especially if that person can share those opinions with someone that they have a lot in common with, as they will likely share similar points of view. In fact, I think if you asked a lot of people why they started playing a certain MMO they would probably say it was because someone they knew told them about it - not because they checked out a spreadsheet showcasing a bunch of stats about how many subs the game currently has.

Bullying a person with stats in order to catch them conflicting themselves or in some sort of semantic trap is not holding a mirror up to anything. It’s bullying, period. The fact that it’s bullying on the Internet makes it particularly sad.

Finally, this thread is not about “gaming and MMO’s in general” it’s about the reasons behind WoW hating. I offered a pretty solid argument as to what I believe to be the myth of WoW hating and how people, like you, who aggressively attack anyone who says anything negative about WoW, propagate it.

I hope others in the WoW community will soon realize that this type of behavior does nothing to help your game. Rather, anyone with any real sense, reading this thread, would take one look at the hostile negativity towards any criticism and stay far away. A game NEEDS criticism to grow, and the game WoW is TODAY would not exist without said criticism.

Do any of these AP's run on Mac? If not, can someone recomend one that does?

Thanks!

I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.

Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.

All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.

The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.

I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.

These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.

Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.

Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.