Originally posted by tro44_1

Originally posted by donmaximo

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

 

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

 

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

 

And these are the people we are targeting.

This may be true for you, but not for folks like Zorndorf.

I have no issue with defending the game you love…from actual attacks. But, what is really happening most of the time (as I’ve shown with my post and the subsequent response to it) is someone comes on these forums and offers their opinion about the enjoyment (or lack of) that they experienced playing the game; they are then immediately set upon by stat-mongers who seek to debase this opinion at all cost, using such high moral ground as “holding a mirror up” to these posters to show them the error in their opinion.

Often times the defense comes in the form of trying to catch this person in some insignificant conflict or semantic trap. As I stated in the section of my post that you highlighted: these facts and stats do not amount to making opinion or enjoyment of the game obsolete as valid criticism. Also, what these rabid defenders fail to see is that opinion and enjoyment, beyond any stats, facts, links, spreadsheets, etc is what really keeps players coming back.

So if someone states that they don’t enjoy playing anymore, that’s a valid reason in and of itself. Further, it’s this exact criticism and opinion of enjoyment that I’m sure game developers consult when looking to improve the game because, as I’ve said already, that’s the bottom line as to what makes someone continue to play, or not.

People like Zorndorf are so tied up in their rabid fanboyism, bullying any negative opinion of their game with a landslide of meaningless numbers, that they fail to see that this criticism from others is integral in developing the game. In fact, it’s been integral in making the game what it is today. If all criticism of the game were suddenly silenced, it would die.

Finally this leads me to my original point in answering the thread topic, which is: I believe that “WoW hate” is somewhat of a myth (at least in the sense of it being as widespread as people think) that is propagated by individuals like Zorndorf who bully and insult people offering their opinion of the game, inciting anger, which in turn becomes misdirected, and thus misinterpreted, as “WoW hate”.

Iam sorry but you are missing the point. There are a lot of WoW haters here and on just about all MMORPG gaming sites.
 

Many people jump to call WoW a Bad game, yet they played for years and just got bored.

If I like walking, but walked non stop for a year(360 days) iam sure i would get bored and tired at some point as well. Does that make Walking bad? no, just tired of doing it.  <---- Same example of most of these WoW hater post. 

And many people havnt even exp any of WoTLK gameplay nor its End Game. So how in the world can they call it a bad game, if they never played it?

Then I see crap like  "WoW is Easy Mode Bah BAh BAH!!!!" most of these same people never made it to nether TBC End Game, nor WoTLK End Game. " Blizzard even had to nerf end Game TBC bosses near the end of that X-pac, because less then 10% of the community even made it to Illidan for crying out loud (Pre Nerf)

I dont play WoW anymore. But not cause its a bad game, but because Iam tired of it! And yet there is nowhere to turn to, cause none of the other games out here have a great PvE/PvP mixed system. GW2 has my interest only cause its F2P.

But anyway, there are a lot of Anti-WoW Fanboys out there. And most of these haters complain just about anything they find similar to WoW added to their Fav game.  Problem with this logic is,,,,,

BLIZZARD STEALS GREAT IDEAS FROM OTHER GAMES!!!!! 

So if your going to hate a idea only because its in WoW, then your holding your fav game back, from becoming better. Because if its a good idea, you can be damn sure Blizzard will steal it, and put it in WoW, and the cycle starts all over.

Iav seen haters even complain about Mounts in a MMORPG, because they say stupid things like "That will make it a WoW clone Bah Bah Bah" and other stupid BS like that. As if WoW invented Mounts (For FuOuLo!!)

 I’m not missing the point. I’m offering my perspective, from experience, as to what I think a contributing factor in “WoW hate” is, which is what this thread is about.

Of course there are people out there who just want to hate on a game and say ridiculous things about it, but that’s what comes from being on top, it’s an inevitability. It doesn’t, however, make personal opinion or personal enjoyment obsolete as valid criticisms.

My comment was directed towards WoW defenders who have become so blinded by their own fanboy rage that they cannot decipher criticism and opinion from worthless comments. The result is people like Zorndorf who patrol these forums ripping into anyone who says anything remotely negative about WoW.

Originally posted by donmaximo

I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.

Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.

All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.

The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.

I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.

These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.

Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.

Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
 

You’re response does a very good job of illustrating my exact point.

Also, I hope that wasn’t an attempt to quote me, as I never said that I don’t think WoW is a good game. I said that I don’t enjoy playing it anymore.

Further, your assertion that personal option of the game is worthless shows extreme naivety.

It’s people’s personal option and enjoyment of the game that have a direct result in them continuing to play. Why do you think games like EvE, CoX and even SWG have subs? Because people enjoy playing them, regardless of all of the stats, figures, links, etc that you love to post about why WoW is better.

I would argue that a person’s personal opinion holds far more weight than any “facts” you can drudge up. Especially if that person can share those opinions with someone that they have a lot in common with, as they will likely share similar points of view. In fact, I think if you asked a lot of people why they started playing a certain MMO they would probably say it was because someone they knew told them about it - not because they checked out a spreadsheet showcasing a bunch of stats about how many subs the game currently has.

Bullying a person with stats in order to catch them conflicting themselves or in some sort of semantic trap is not holding a mirror up to anything. It’s bullying, period. The fact that it’s bullying on the Internet makes it particularly sad.

Finally, this thread is not about “gaming and MMO’s in general” it’s about the reasons behind WoW hating. I offered a pretty solid argument as to what I believe to be the myth of WoW hating and how people, like you, who aggressively attack anyone who says anything negative about WoW, propagate it.

I hope others in the WoW community will soon realize that this type of behavior does nothing to help your game. Rather, anyone with any real sense, reading this thread, would take one look at the hostile negativity towards any criticism and stay far away. A game NEEDS criticism to grow, and the game WoW is TODAY would not exist without said criticism.

Do any of these AP's run on Mac? If not, can someone recomend one that does?

Thanks!

I played WoW for a few years and really enjoyed it. I can still recall some great times I had. Further, I am still in touch with some of the members of my old guild, in other games and even in real life. I don’t view my experiences playing WoW in a particularly negative light. Sure there were some things I disliked about the game, but generally I had fun.

Not too long ago I stopped playing WoW and started playing EvE instead. Now I thoroughly enjoy my time playing EvE. I stopped playing WoW because I no longer enjoyed it. There were plenty of reasons for this, but honestly, they’re inconsequential next to the fact that I simply stopped having fun.

All of the facts about subs, content, graphics, etc don’t mean much to me because I stopped enjoying the game. Does this make me a WoW hater? Not really. Are there plenty of things related to content, graphics, and subs which I could complain about? Yes. Would it make any difference? Not one.

The real fact is all of those stats, numbers, links and articles don’t mean anything to the person who just stopped enjoying playing. To me, WoW is not the “best” game out there and I don’t have to explain or justify why, because it doesn’t make a lick of difference and I won’t be playing it again.

I think that “WoW hate” is a sort of myth. Of course there are trolls and people out there who just want to bash the game, but I’d bet there are far fewer of them than people think. What are really out there, are people like myself, who for whatever reason stopped playing. What causes (or incites) the myth of “WoW hate” are people like Zorndorf.

These forums are a place for people to come and discuss a topic of common interest, video games (and more specifically here, WoW). That includes sharing reasons that you lost interest or stopped playing – it is an open discussion after all.
However, people like Zorndorf take any and all constructive, negative or subjective comments and run them through a ringer of facts, stats, insults, etc, inevitably inciting anger and hostility in people who just wanted to share their opinion. And don’t be fooled, personal opinion IS important. This is the factor that ultimately drives someone to continue playing a game – their like or dislike of it, no matter how subjective.

Criticism is crucial to the growth of a product as it creates a dialogue for discussing improvements. The irony is that if all of these criticism were dissected and flatly dismissed (as Zorndorf would like to have it) the game of WoW that so many people love, would not exist.

Ultimately everyone should play the game that they love to play, for no other reason than they love to play it.
 

Hello,

The girlfriend of a friend of mine wants to buy him something as a gift and would like it to be related to EvE (I guess she's trying to get on his level with gaming, in her own way, lol).

She asked me for advice and I suggested a paper (magazine/book) guide for the game. Something that includes mining, manufacturing, PvP, etc guides. However, I have no idea where to find something like this or which are ones worth purchasing. If anyone could lend me a hand with some titles I'd be very grateful.

Thanks!

 Glad to see another person joining the ranks of this awesome game! Although I'm no expert (far from it) I'd like to add to the above post and say that checking out the Battleclinic website for ship loadouts is a good idea. Most of the comments on peoples loadouts are very informative and help you to understand what modules do what. Also, look at getting into a player corp as soon as you can. Playing with other people, in fleets of PvP, miners, or whatever really make the game shine. Plus, a player corp is an invaluable asset for learning, as generally they are invested in your progression and will give you solid advice.

If you're looking for a casual player corp to start PM me in game (Xedam Praxis) and I can point you to 1 or 2 that would be good choices (in my experience) for a beginner. Good luck!

Oh, and pick up as many learning skills as you can at the beginning as training them up first greatly reduces your training time later on.

Cheers!

 Ha, ha, Zorndorf...too funny. Like, sad funny, but funny none-the-less.

Even though I love EvE, it does have some pretty harsh fans. Though, I think that some of that is due to the complexity of the game and getting fed up with people not understanding it - and making bogus, uneducated claims. Not like they should immediately get everything (that would be impossible), but some of the stuff you hear over there is pretty amazing.

I played WoW for about 4 years, and enjoyed it quite a bit. I'm sure they get pretty tired of being the focus of a lot of negative attention, but that's how it goes when you're king of the hill. Consequently, they love to boast about that fact (most subs, etc), but also don't seem able to cope with the negative feedback that comes with it very well.

I guess I'd vote them (WoW fans) as being worst though. It probably has a lot to do with sheer numbers (like someone else stated) and age range too, but I find them the most annoying because I think they're the most close-minded, arrogant and least humble. Too bad too, because WoW has some great things about it, but the community often doesn't do the game any favours.

Great post (even with a little bit of rant)! =P

I haven't been playing MMO's for too long ( I think my first was CoH in 2004) but I did play MUD's and D&D when I was younger.

Dave Arneson (D&D co-creator) recently died and he was quoted as saying "Dice and maps and figures and complicated rule books are a crutch. The game doesn't need them — but the market does", which I think kind of echoes some of the sentiment of the OP.

I've left WoW and begun playing EvE Online and I'm enjoying it quite a bit. After reading the OP's comments I think the reason I'm enjoying it is because, to a certain extent, it has remained a niche game and thus is immune to the jaws of the marketing monster.

I'm not a economics or business whiz but what I do know is that for me, in the end, WoW began to feel like hanging around in the arcade with a bunch of kids, playing the same level over and over again trying to beat the high score - instead of being immersed in a lush and creative game world like many of the table-top RPG's of old.

Originally posted by Enkindu

Originally posted by Salvatoris

You guys are so condescending, it's like your a parody of yourselves at this point.  The constant insinuations that people who don't like Eve are simply less intelligent than people who do are laughable.  About every fourth post someone has to tell us how Eve is different than every other MMO, and quite frankly, we just aren't intelligent or mature enough to enjoy it.  We should all go back to WoW, and every other MMO that is a carbon copy of WoW.   All shall bow to the power of the mighty cult of Eve. 

Did I just about cover all your talking points?

 

If you want to hear Eve Online summed up perfectly in four words, click on the link in my sig.   :)

 

I personally offered you 20 mil isk to use in game to try some new ships fittings out because you were convinced that ISK gave people such an advantage.  You refused my offer.

I recommended that you get together with one of the talented PvPers that frequent this forum to learn some of the finer points of the game. You said that you weren't interested.
 

You stated reasons that you didn't like the game.  Many of us here tried to help you understand why we like the game.  You have never been interested in this.

The amount of time you've spent learning the game is relatively tiny. Eve is a game of years- as we've explained to you before, if you don't enjoy the delayed gratification of very long term projects, you will probably never enjoy the game.

For the 937th time: WE ACCEPT AND RESPECT THAT YOU DO NOT ENJOY EVE.

What we do not accept and respect is the fact that you keep coming back to this forum for the sole purpose of making (misinformed) negative posts about the game.  It is pretty unfair to someone that might be interested in all eve has to offer if they decide whether or not to try the game base on your sweeping judgements (which are in turn based on a few short weeks in the game).

You are making yourself look a little sad to be honest.  You have actually posted a link to an eve bashing review in your signature.. you've spent hours making eve bashing posts in this forum.. all this effort to crusade against a game that you don't like.

To the rest of us, it looks like you are trying to have your revenge on eve for something.  If I don't like a game, I just quit it and walk away.. I've quit several MMOs that I didn't like for various reasons but I didn't spend weeks camping out in those game forums bashing the games.  That's the basis of my "girlfriend" analogy above, and i think it's dead on.  You are acting like eve hurt your feelings somehow.

 We like eve because it is brutal, huge, and complicated.  I takes perserverence and a thick skin to get anywhere in the game... and many goals in the game take YEARS to accomplish.  For me this is great- because most games get boring for me after I've "solved" the big problems in the game... I've never been bored in eve because I've always got multiple long, medium, and short-term goals I'm working toward.

Right after college I spent two years living out of a car and climbing mountains pretty much full time.  Climbing, like eve, isn't for everyone.  If I took someone out and they said "hey, I like climbing except for the risk, the exposure, and being up in the mountains all the time," there really wouldn't be any intelligent response to give them except "climbing isn't for everyone."

If you don't like eve essentially for what the game is, then what is the point of your constant negative posting about it?  Are you looking for some kind of validation? What gives?

Why not try to salvage some self respect and say "hey I guess eve just isn't my thing."  I'm pretty sure our response would be "hey man, that's cool.. good luck finding something you like better."

^^ SNAP!
 

Great post.

 Mines better than yours.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Since Blizzard is the ONLY mmorpg game company who focused on game play value, it is the only one that actually gets played for longer periods of time.

Hence the 11.500.000 million people paying for F U N .

The dudes that say the opposite are further proof they lost every touch with reality and RL fun.

It's the kind of people who think mmorpg's are food or a overhyped singer.

Just as if a 200 pound 35 year old mummy's child living in the basement could even define the word "fun" in life.

 

Zorndorf, your posts crack me up man!

Originally posted by DeathTouch

Originally posted by Xennith

theres a thread out there that answers your questions, but you dont want to go find it, you want us to bring the information to you, after you've posted a load of smack and flamebaiting.

 

im frankly not surprised that you didnt enjoy eve.

 

i guess i failed to make it clear i dont care about the game, which also means i dont care to search for why people like it. what i care about is why people flame someone who says they dont like it, dont give a big reason or even a half assed one, at that, but then flame the person saying its a great game, that they must be stupid, a troll. yada yada. but totally FAIL at explaining in any certain terms what the game holds that they like or why the game is worth the time to reevaluate it.

I mean if i played a trial for 14 days i had better have a fairly accurate reading of the game and its play style.

I've beta tested at least 15 games, i have played at least 30 different MMOs. i can say for with out a doubt, i can play a game a few days and know what the game is about.

Sigh.
 

Take one minute. Go back to the begining and re-read the OP's post. Now, you're trying to tell me that that post: A.) is deserving of me or anyone else taking their time to write out a thoughtful explanation of the great points of the game? B.) the post of someone who played the trial to it's full extent and  "knows what the game is about"?

If you are sincerely trying to tell me that your answer to these questions is "yes" I'm utterly speachless.

Otherwise, I stand by my statement that the OP's post is fully deserving of the response it got.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Forgeknight

Most boring- Eve followed by PotBS.

Most fun- Pre-CU SWG followed closely by WoW

 

I love the fact that Eve is taking the "most boring game" category by a landslide.  :)

There are 4 or 5 guys in the Eve forums who will argue with their last breath that if you find the game boring, it's because you are a stupid.  They do a good job over there of burying any criticism of the game under the personal attacks they respond with.  Of course, they will only post in the Eve section where they have a captive audience of trial players and fellow fanboys, because outside that specific sub-forum, general consensus is that the game is a snooze-fest.

there are plenty of games i do enjoy, and when I discuss those games I can admit to their shortcomings.  I enjoy WAR, but I don't try to pretend that there aren't real problems with the game.  Pretty much any issue that you see people post over and over about the game is accurate.  Those Eve fans will even defend in game currency sales rather than admit that there is one little thing about the game that is less than perfect.

Well, if the fact that I find Eve the most boring MMO on the market makes me stupid an d immature, at least I am in good company. :)

Also, just because I have some time to kill:
 

Most boring game tally thus far (drum roll)!

EvE: 31

WoW: 26

Not quite a landslide tho. =P

Originally posted by Salvatoris

How long should you have to play a game before you are allowed to post your opinion of it?  If the opinion you want to post is specifically about how the game is for new players, you don't have to play very long for that opinion to be credible.  I wish I would have seen more honest reviews from new players and less fanboyism from the same 6 guys here before I wasted my time and money on this game. 

I think the problem here is that the OP does a disservice by writing a completely uninformed post. Say I was reviewing a book about the history of China and wrote something like:

"This book was way too long. It should have been only 12 pages because it's so boring. Also, there weren't enough cartoons in it, only words. On top of all of that, there's chinese art work on the cover that I don't think looks very good."

Is this usefull information? No. Does it show a complete lack of effort to understand the subject? Yes. Is it a personal opinion? Of course - but that doesn't in-and-of-itself lend it any value. The OP doesn't ask for any clarification, help, or advice - as such, this post is a flame. It's someone coming onto the forums of another game with an obvious lack of desire to learn anything about said game and blasting it.

If I took a trip over to the CoX forums and wrote: "This game sucks! What a horrible game. It's all about superheroes who run "missions" not quests and they don't even have any open-world PvP! There's not even any Nightelf Hunters! Just horrible, stay away." What do you think the response would be? Sure it's my opinion - but it's not a very intelligent or well informed one.

He certainly should have expected what he recieved from the community with a post like that.

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by Forgeknight

Most boring- Eve followed by PotBS.

Most fun- Pre-CU SWG followed closely by WoW

 

I love the fact that Eve is taking the "most boring game" category by a landslide.  :)

There are 4 or 5 guys in the Eve forums who will argue with their last breath that if you find the game boring, it's because you are a stupid.  They do a good job over there of burying any criticism of the game under the personal attacks they respond with.  Of course, they will only post in the Eve section where they have a captive audience of trial players and fellow fanboys, because outside that specific sub-forum, general consensus is that the game is a snooze-fest.

there are plenty of games i do enjoy, and when I discuss those games I can admit to their shortcomings.  I enjoy WAR, but I don't try to pretend that there aren't real problems with the game.  Pretty much any issue that you see people post over and over about the game is accurate.  Those Eve fans will even defend in game currency sales rather than admit that there is one little thing about the game that is less than perfect.

Well, if the fact that I find Eve the most boring MMO on the market makes me stupid an d immature, at least I am in good company. :)

It's too bad you don't like EvE, it's really a great game. I definitely don't think that people who find EvE boring are stupid - I mean it's a video game, right? How smart could you possibly have to be? But, I do think that generally speaking, to enjoy EvE requires a little more maturity than the average MMO. That's my direct experience at least. I could go over all of the reasons for this but I think we'd all agree that proverbial "dead mule" has been beaten enough.

Anyways, I wouldn't feel discouraged about posting comments in the EvE forum if I were you. Criticism of a game is a very good way of making it better. However, I would say that taking the steep learning curve involved in playing EvE (which, is pretty much common knowledge in the MMO world by now), comments that are uneducated flames are generally met pretty harshly. I wouldn't say that any of the other game forums act any differently though.
 

Originally posted by Torik

Originally posted by Goronian

Which brings me to my point. WoW players are much more egoistic, than players of a more "old-school" type of games. Sure, most people are egoistic, by nature, but there are grades... I'll try to explain.

Whether, because WoW naturally attracts these kind of people, or because it influences them in this mode of thinking, but gamers in WoW are largely focused on their own advancment, rather than their allies/guilds. Think about it.

-There is no "guild levels", or any other form of recognasible "guild status" system. Sure, there are bragging rights, but they are more self-contained, as well.

-Other players and interaction with them are largely unneeded in the big picture - you only need them for raids, to, you guessed it - grind yourself new gear. Sure, you help them along the way, but it's more focused on the need of a raid for the next piece of shiny gear.

-It's not only the end-game - the middle levels also reek of this - unreliance on other players means little in-game connection or community. Sure, you can join a guild and flood guild-chat with Chuck Norris jokes, but that's about it. Most WoW connections were already forged IRL.

What I wanted to say with this? Well... Basically, that WoW-type MMORPGs (which should recieve their own sub-genre name already... How about sologrinders?) are anti-social? Possibly. But maybe, that they don't give me (and many other players. Minority, but quite numbered and vocal one) the satisfaction of feeling "a part of something bigger". A team, you can say. The guild-as-a-chat-device only worked well in FFXI.

 

Thank you for reading, and good trolling.

My personal experience disagrees with your statement.

For the first few years of WoW I was part of a great guild.  We had a strong loyalty to each other, helped out each other and freely traded favours when needed.  Few of us were RL friends but we cared about each other.  We ckept growing and had 100+ members.  The reason for our success was that we let our members do their own thing.  You were never forced to socialize, group or trade with other group members.  You only did those things because you enjoyed them.  Even though we played solo for the most part we were a great team that would pull together at a momen't notice to help each other out.  We were like a big family.

Our guild broke apart after we decided to focus on more 'team content'.    Instead of pullling us together it drove us apart.  People less driven to constantly progress felt left out and those pushing for team progression thought the others were not pulling their weight.  Disagreements about playstyles and strategies came to the forefront and we could no longer 'agree to disagree' because the 'team content' requires us to act as a 'unified team' .  We became highly dependant on each other which meant that anyone who just wanted to take it easy for a while was hurting the group as a whole.  In the end people who had enough of this new 'team first' mentality just gave up and moved on. 

 

Great response. I think I didn't quite understand it at the time - but several "casual" guilds I was in suffered this same fate.

Originally posted by Goronian

Originally posted by ryman

Originally posted by Goronian

 Good evening to you all, kids, trolls and sane people alike. It's me again, that-dude-who-whines-about-WoW-and-has-a-barely-known-videogame-developer-on-his-avatar.

 

You mean wannabe game designer? The people who sit down and make game ideas in their basement? The people who do not need any sort of intelligence or schooling, yet they wonder why they still live with their parents when they're 30? Oh thats right, you're just a gamer.

Sigh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jon_Van_Caneghem

Do your homework.

Can we close the thread now? My mistake for opeing it in WoW forums, in the first place.

 

^^ I like how it's in your sig too. Reading is tough on some folks. =P
 

I think the OP's post was pretty good.

I don't entirely agree with it, but it has some fairly accurate points based on my personal experience in-game while playing WoW. I met some fantastic people while playing WoW and had a fairly tight group to raid with on a regular basis. However, I would agree that it's the rule more than the exception to have a person join your guild (party) only so long as they're benefiting.

As a tank I frequently ran people (mostly from my guild but not exclusively) through instances for no benefit to myself other than possible rep and a good time, yet found it more difficult that easy to form reciprocal relationships. I'm not saying it's impossible (like I mentioned, I made some great friends) but it definitely wasn't easy.
 

I would agree with the "big city" analogy though. An off-shoot of this however is that WoW's accessibility caters to the lowest common denominator. So there's a lot of garbage to sift through in order to find that diamond-in-the-rough player who you actually get on well with.

Just my personal experience.
 

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by donmaximo

Originally posted by Josher

Originally posted by Salvatoris

Originally posted by JGMIII

Alot of haters in this thread.

People saying Eve and WoW are the most boring MMOs ever for them are strickly singling out each games fanbois on this site for a reaction.

For me the Most boring MMO experience that wasn't a f2p mmo was probably SWG (recent version) I just couldn't have a good time with the horrid combat and benny hill running.

Best for me was my first MMO UO, I can never get that feeling back but im also not so stuck on the Nostalgia that i think it was the best ever for me.

Currently Eve is the best overall game that I have ever played.

This is all my opinion of course.

 

 

You don't agree with them, so they must be lying.  No matter how many people say Eve is boring, they are all simply trolls.  Eve is about as much fun as sorting pebbles by size and color, and a lot less rewarding. ;)

 

Good luck finding masses of people saying WOW is boring besides bitter hate mongers.  However, professional paid critics who even enjoy Eve say its boring and slow.  Its in the reviews.  You'd have to be pretty naive even if you love Eve to say it can't be boring at times, esspecially for the mass majority that are instantly turned off by it.   WOW has attracted people who NEVER were interested in MMOs before.  That makes it far from boring.

 

 

Generating interest in a game does not mean it isn't boring. This isn't a very good argument for anything except to say that WoW is pretty popular - but so were New Kids on The Block...I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions.

Boredom is subjective and for many people WoW is boring. Likewise for EvE. But trying to say that I can't personally find a game fun (see thread topic) because reviewers say it's boring, or that I can't find a game boring because it has a lot of first-time subs doesn't make any sense what-so-ever.

 

And so was Elvis, the Beatles, U2 and the Rolling Stones and not too many people who understand music blast them.  Ussually those that would consider any of those amazingly popular artists boring or crappy are laughed out of serious discussion.  I'll let YOU draw your own conclusions.  Just because something is popular and YOU don't like it, doesn't mean you compare it to the lowest form of something else thats popular.  You compare it against something thats actually similar.  Not many consider New kids on the Block amazing artists.  They had a couple of catchy songs.  They were mostly marketed performers, short lived and not quite as good as other more succesful and MORE popular and influential boy bands.   WOW will be anything but short lived and its as influential as any MMO ever designed.  Any new MMO after 2004 hasn't exactly copied EQ or UO or DAOC.  They're all been unfluenced by WOW.  MMOs that came out BEFORE WOW have actually changed to compete with it.  

Of course a person can find anything boring, but lets get real here.  One game is known for bring interesting and unique, yet boring.  WOW and boring just don't go hand in hand.  It was designed as the anti-boring MMO;)  But hey, its all personal perference.  I didn't call Eve boring just because I think so.  Its pretty common knowledge that its boring for most people. 

I think you missed my point.

Though I'll admit that my NKOTB and WoW comparison was a little cheeky - so touche on that one. 

That being said: I never once stated I didn't like WoW. In fact,  I played WoW for 5 years and enjoyed it quite a bit. However, as my tastes matured I found that it became extremely boring and moved on to EvE. Also, New Kids on The Block (80 Mil + in 12+ years) is the second most succesfull "pop boy band" ever, only beaten by Backstreet Boys (100 Mil + in 16+ years) (I didn't include Boyz II Men or Jackson 5 as they're different genres, but even if I did KNOTB is still in the top 4). Further, 12 years is hardly short lived - so I don't think that I'm comparing it to the lowest form of something popular.

That leads to the fact that you kind of contradict yourself in your assertions. You are defending an objective view-point of video game "fun factor" by refering to "professional paid critics" yet your analogy is dripping with your own personal bias towards New Kids on The Block. If we go with "professional" stats, I'd say my comparison is pretty fair.

But, all of that aside - the topic of this thread is subjective: What has been the most boring MMO you have ever played / tried to play? Not the wors(t), just the most boring to actually PLAY! Which has been the most fun to PLAY?
 

You tried to blast someone's personal opinion (which is what this thread is about) by dragging your "paid critics" into it. I was simply pointing that out.

It's irrelevant what most people think. This isn't a thread about what most people think, it's about personal taste - so I stand by my argument that your previous statement about what critics think of EvE or WoW has no bearing here.