Originally posted by bloodaxes

Originally posted by KarmaCry7

Originally posted by bloodaxes

There are many people that collect those pets and they were mostly gotten ingame now these fellas need to pay to get them? so nothing has changed? right....

No, nothing has changed. They didn't add a price to the old vanity pets you can still earn in game. To tell you the truth, this idea could have been added in the begining (charging for vanity pets). Vanity pets are pointless but makes more sense if someone actually paid real money for it. I still have the Blizzard Bear and I often have that follow my Hunter around. It changes NOTHING about your charcter's ability to perform in game.

If they made more cool vanity stuff, that would be the only extra merchandise I would consider getting. (Mugs, T-Shirts and all the other stuff is just corny). I would never leave the house with a level 80 Hunter T-Shirt but a cool companion that does nothing but looks nice would be cool. Paying for mounts, items, potions, etc isn't cool, vanity pets are. Pointless, but nice.

So just because you don't care about vanity pets everyone that collects them should agree with you?

Gathering vanity pets is a good way to stop doing always the same things everyday, like people that collect achievements there are others that like the collect the vanity pets what's the problem with that?

I never said the old vanity pets will be in the cash shop but if you really think they wasted hours or days to create a cash shop to have only 2 pets in it you must be fooling yourself they will add more pets in the future and god knows what else. Before the cash shop these stuff were added as extra content for those that like to get everything when playing but now there will be some that will be in game the best ones (cooler,ecc) must be bought talking about greediness....

Aww, QQ. You have obviously lived a sheltered life.

Originally posted by bloodaxes

If you don't like people expressing their opinions don't look simple.

That's a gross generalization. I'm glad we're all so grown up that we make these to try and belittle the argument another person. That's pathetic. You know better than that.

I stand by this, "there are lines that should be drawn", for everything. This includes what is deemed to be plain ridiculous. Crying about a business movement made for the *gasp* purpose of making money, yet still complying to good business, is where the line is drawn. And players wonder why game companies are listening to them less an less.

 I really am getting sick of people complaining about these kinds of issues all the time. It's like sitting in a room crowded with little children and they've all just been told that they can't have sweets. So, they have convulsions on the floor, squirming kicking and screaming. Cry all you want, it isn't going to change anything when the cause is so ridiculous and pointless.

Business is business. Welcome to reality. There are lines that should be drawn and never crossed, but this isn't one of them. Now, go have a nappy.

[ Mod Edit ]

 If I may point out, I don't even think it's the inequality behind it that Jon found sick, it was what they required for proof: webcam appearance. Any feminine guy can dress as a girl, so what proof would they demand? I think he's disgusted by the fact that they may require a shot of sexual organs as evidence for gender. On top of that, any guy can ask his sister or girlfriend to fill in as their "proof" rendering the entire system pointless for practical purposes. And since only females are required to do this, the real motive behind this system should be critically questioned.

 While I'm not a huge vampire fan, I have to say, Dana, this is a brilliant idea. I despise Twilight from every depth of my soul, but vampires do take their root in romanticism. The two paths definitely need to be there. It would be tricky, but a big hit if done correctly. And it would need to be done now.

It would be nice to have a human faction as well so the PvPers can play as vampire hunters. That would make it an epic win. But the two paths of vampires alone would be a lot of work within itself.

 Ahh!! Dana Started a Zombie Survival thread and I'm late to the party!? Preposterous! This is the game I've been waiting for. My life will never be fulfilled if I don't get to play a Zombie Survival MMO. I'm so desperate, I'm even trying to make one myself. This type of game is LONG overdue.

This is exactly how it should be made. Although one point I disagree with you on Dana, is urban areas even resembling safe zones. That's highly unrealistic. Cities would have such a high concentration of infected AND desperate,even psychotic survivors, it would be a war zone. A concrete jungle. No man's land. Or should I say, dead man's land? That might be a decent title.

Other than that, you're spot on.

 Good article! A lot of deep discussion. I completely agree, we need more niche MMOs. I'm one of those people who needs one. A zombie survival MMO to be specific. I don't think I'd ever have to touch another MMO in my life, if I could just have my zombie MMO based on survival instead of being purely combat driven.

It doesn't even need to be a great game. Just based on survival with maybe a player housing system, of sorts, to maintain as a hold out. I'm trying to make it myself, but I'm unsure how far I'll get. I've learned a lot about MMO development and I have a great game engine (that I DO know how to use) to get me there. I'm also an aspiring 3D artist, so my chances are maybe 50/50. Maybe higher?

 I love reading these articles. Getting a glimpse into the industry and how it works is really cool. I think it's very eye-opening for many others as well who think they know how the MMO world turns, despite never going further than an official game forum.

 Damn, I was kind of hoping it would be a metropolitan island infested with zombies.

Originally posted by Turel_Azure

Mequellios, I get the feeling you didn't fully read my initial post.

 

I did go to school for an aspect of game development, and I learned 3d art and Animation.  I finished it with high marks, and was basically dubbed a technical artist by my teacher.  But, I have not had the good fortune of finding work in my area, which is supposed to be an okay one for game developers (Seattle, WA).  It would have helped if most of them stayed open through this recession hitting.

 

Also, the MMO concept is not my only idea, nor is it the one I'd hope to start with.  And when I say the engine won't support it, I'm referring to RealmMaker, which I tried.  I got a tip on Game Maker 7 just for a proof-of-concept, and I'm working on learning that now.  A good point was made, considering it's game design:

Use the Game Maker to make your core game alive.  If it's fun without fancy 3d graphics, you should have a winner.

You repeated this goal, so it's one I plan to work on.  Shooting for something OTS with sprites, or an isometric.  I may start making a more basic demo that's just a final-fight style. 

 

And yes, you're right, I would need a team, but I'm not at that point yet.  I made this post to find out a way to get started since GETTING A JOB didn't work out.  Heh.  And hell, I am still looking, and maybe I'll get work in a local studio while I'm working on this.

 

As for engines, I'm most interested in the modern engines that are easy to use, which instantly pulls me to Unreal3, which I'm more familiar with than others.  It's the closest to what I know: 3ds Max.

I second the post above me. You might need to look for smaller, freelance jobs like advertising (which is a big one) or if you're up for it, low-budget films. Along with that, you can make your own animated models and sell them online on a site like TurboSquid. Do this to fund your project if funding is needed.

And it wasn't quite clear to me, what your education was (it sounded like something slighty unrelated to game development directly), so I assumed none for the point fo the post. Apologies for that.

All in all, it comes down to getting a version of your game created. You won't need a very big team to get started. You can begin by yourself if you need to. Engine hopping can be exausting, but there should be something you can use out there. Another engine you could look at, if you haven't heard of it already, is Torque

Good Luck.

 So one game get's more subscriptions than another, it automatically kills it? I don't understand. Why isn't Everquest dead? Or any other MMO for that matter?

The prospect of a game competeing with WoW is interesting however. But, I won't play it because it's more popular. What a stupid reason to leave a game. Most people play WoW because of the low requirements and the ease-of-play. I'm personally sick of fantasy games all together. So just because the rest of the herd is flocking to it, doesn't mean I will mindlessly follow.

 Now here's the hard part to hear. If you are working on this alone and you have little experience in game developement (wiriting down ideas is not experience) than you are not going to make a ground-breaking MMO. I don't mean to discourage, I'm just giving you the truth.

When I said start small, that means starting modest as well. Sure, you could find a team, but lacking MMO organization skills (wiriting down ideas is not organizing MMO development) and money to pay this team, your results aren't going to be much better. MMO development takes experience. I wanted my game to be amazing and everything I ever wanted, too. But, sooner or later, you're going to have to face a harsh reality just as I did. You can't always get what you want. Sometimes, you need to make tough decisions. The lesser of two evils. Sometimes, you just need to settle with a modest game. If you love game development and you're passionate about bringing your game to life, you can come to terms with this.

Having an amazing idea that will find it's niche into the industry, doesn't mean jack shit if you don't have the tools, or the man power to get there. As I said, start small. Build from the ground up. Gain the experience you need and someday, you might just find yourself with those tools and a dedicated team to bring your game into fill swing. Remember, you can update the game. You can make more than one version of it. You need patience.

Also, If we don't know you're plan for these "core mechanics", how do expect anyone to help you find the right engine to build them in? You're not going to be working with the Hero Engine or Big World Tech (If you're asking for MMO advice here), so why doom yourself to failure before you even start, with statements like, "And the core alteration of the systems I am going for may not be supported well by these engines."? Assuming you mean smaller, Indy engines. As I said, you may need to humble your idea if you want to see it come to life. And you might not. I don't know, you're keeping secrets.

You have two other options. One's going to school for a field relavant to game development and work your way up a ladder (be careful the first few steps can be years apart). Then once you're up, and you have close to a decade of game development experience, and success to build on, you will be able to lead a project.

The other, is to build your own corporation from the ground up. This will most likely require the same eduacation as the other option. Not doing so, will require all the steps about "modest game development" I spoke of before. You also need to have a working demo of your game to pitch it to a publisher for funding. Many middleware engines offer demo licenses. But you need a company, and a team (most teams start small, sometimes as little as 3-5 people). And no, showing them a rendered movie of the things you want, will not work. It needs to be a real-time demo. They need to know you're capable of making a game before they give you a lot of money to create one.

All of these are achievable with varying difficulty and waiting time before working on your game. I hope this helps you. You asked us to "get real", so I did. I wish you good luck, and hope that your dream game materializes in your future.

I've noticed as well, that the environment is always bleak around here when it comes to an indy developer trying to get a nibble of the MMO pie. The truth is, most of the kids here, have a broken perception of success. They think if an MMO doesn't break one million subscribers, it's a failure. And that's for a commercial MMO! Since Indy MMOs use a much smaller budget, the success margin is much larger. Having 100-200 paying customers for your game can be a success depending on your budget and the ultimate goal of the game.

I'm attempting to develop my own on almost entierly free tools. I'll be building it on the RealmCrafter Pro Engine. Id' recommend checking it out. Version 2.3 is nearing release. RC contains many common, built-in MMO features that gives you a head start in getting your game out the door. Not to mention a very positive and helpful community. Either way, I second the post above me, get a version for your game out there, in any way possible. Start small and build up.

And remember, making tons of money doesn't always mean success. I've heard many professionals say that they have always been happier working on their own projects and making small amounts of money, than they ever were working in big corporations.

If you love it, do it.

 I was the one who recieved the Eddie Izzard CD. Thanks, btw. It destroyed my marriage.

 Bravo! This is a very inspiring post!

 Great atricle!

I always try to wait a while after I experience a bug or problem (and it's usually never with an MMO). That way I'm a little more calm and come off a little more polite. The only time I lost it was for the support on my laptop. I sent it in once and it seemed like they didn't fix anything. I had to send it in again (hoping it would get there before my warranty ran out) wondering if I was flushing mroe money down the drain. So many problems with it, mainly with games. Outdated drivers, crashed whenever it got a little heated, DVDs made crackling noises, it was insane. I was about to crack. Sent it in the last time. They replaced the motherboard (Including the sound card) and the video card.

I felt a little embarassed about my pissy email. I still won't be buying a computer from them again, though.

 The name "Praetoria" reminds me of Peteoria. Sounds kinda cool. Too bad Champions will probably be out by then. If they open a  free weekend or something again, I'll certainly try it out. I've always liked less-obvious heroism.

 I didn't mind it. The only reason I quit Age of Conan was the overall feeling of it not being finished. All of their promised features weren't in until later. I liked the instances personally. Gave me a chance to escape griefers camping at the spawn points.

 Even if interiors were useless, there are still groups of roleplayers who want to immerse themselves in the Star Trek universe. This will make it a bit more difficult. Even if they just had the bridge, it would be infinately better. I don't plan on playing this game, but I certainly feel for the Star Trek fans on this one.

Originally posted by dhayes68

Its the price of success. Once WoW showed the world how much money could be made, the shareholders took over. I doubt developers have much control or say over the final product anymore.

See, it used to be developers developed, publishers would buy and publish.  Now publishers hire/buy developers.

This is one of the most valid statements I've seen in this thread so far.