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All Posts by l2avism

All Posts by l2avism

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39 posts found
Originally posted by Mors.Magne
Originally posted by Phaserlight
Originally posted by l2avism

Sandbox Both: most sandbox games, DF, EVE

Genuinely curious: what PvE content is there in Eve?

There are a large number of missions and exploration sites. It's enough to keep someone playing for weeks or even months.


It's the PvP and human interaction that keeps people coming back for years.


However, I don't think I'll be returning to any sort of MMORPG until the Oculus Rift is adopted.

Yeah, try going for the Caldari Navy Raven mission line until completion and see how long that takes. LOL

Originally posted by DamonVile
I'd be willing to bet the most popular answer would have been themebox pve focus with flagged pvp. People like aspects of all the types of games but want more choices in the games we play.

This is the Themepark both option. It has pve and pvp.

Originally posted by elocke
Originally posted by ghorgos

Sandpark (pve with some pvp)

I simply like elements from both Themeparks and Sandboxes and would like to see a combinaation of both.

This.  And since the poll does not have this option, the poll sucks.

go make your own poll then

Originally posted by whisperwynd
It won't decide a thing, just go off tangent and become another PvP vs PvE thread but have fun anyway.

Thats why you just look at the poll and totally disregard everything underneath :)

Most of what people consider to be good graphics is actually the artwork and map design.

The engine itself does not affect the quality or appearance of the artwork, models, or maps. The engine only controls how well these are rendered and how efficiently they are rendered.


For example, crisis 3 looks awesome with crytek3 engine, but ArcheAge also uses Crytek3 and looks nothing like Crisis.

Mortal Online uses the Unreal 3 engine and doesn't look as good as the Unreal games.

The engine alone won't give you good graphics.

The other thread was biased towards PvE and did not have a poll.

There were also claims that the majority of gamers are strictly PvE or PvP without any evidence to back up those claims.

A poll solves that.

PVP vs PVE, Themepark VS Sandbox. Let the polls decide!


Themepark PvE Games: (most of them) Original EQ2

Themepark PVP Games: none

Themepark Both: WoW, DAOC, EQ2 after PVP patch

Sanbox PVE Games: not many, SecondLife, UO after trammel

Sandbox PVP Games: planetside, not many

Sandbox Both: most sandbox games, DF, EVE

With so many indies buying these "engines" to make games they won't finish there is obviously more money being made selling these engines than making indy games.

If you can't make a game with your own engine, you probably won't be able to make the same game with someone else's engine- you'd just hit that reality faster.

There is no engine currently available that becomes an MMO out of the box, so more attention should be paid to game design and less paid to engine design. With any engine, you will still have to code your game logic and design all of the art work.

Buying or making a game engine is only 1% of the work of making a game.

Basically, each movement/position message sent contains the position AND the velocity.

You can find the position in any given frame by taking the last position and using time elapsed since last update and the velocity. Its like those math problems you had in physics class.

When you receive the next update the timing will be off so if you set the new position immediately it would cause rubber-banding. You would do smoothing against the old position to slowly over time bring the current position back inline.


I do this by having the incoming network position unsmoothed, and just smoothing the per frame position computed from velocity like so:

frame_pos = net_pos_after_velocity * 0.3f + frame_pos * 0.7f;

Since you do that every frame, it would look like the object curves its path. Its usually completely unnoticeable and easy for novices to code. It doesn't appear to be common practice but it works for me and it looks good. The downside is handling rotation- you may have to use the angle between the old frame position and the new position to avoid the object from facing one direction and moving another when smoothing takes effect.


Many online games take this further and only send movement/position messages when the velocity changes. If you ran in the same direction for an hour, the game would only need one message to represent that. Then when you stopped it would send one more. Typically only FPS style games send out packets at regular intervals, MMO's use the method I just described to be able to handle as many players as possible on any given network.

The key of network coding is knowing what not to send and when to not send it.

Another problem arises when you send messages only when someone changes velocity: what happens when someone new logs in or enters range after the change happened? Since you aren't throwing messages out 6 times a second they would not see anyone that doesn't move after they arrive. What I do is basically iterate through the list of players every so many tens of seconds and just resend the last movement message to everyone in range. This is probably why players appear slowly over time in many MMOs when you first enter world.


Why have there been no PvE sandboxes since later UO, SecondLife, etc?

What does it take to make a MMORPG?

I'll start a list and we can all add to it. Maybe this could even be stickied.


1. Programmer(s): Even if you use one of the common 'turn-key'game engines like Unity, most of the game logic and especially the network code will be done by a programmer. Depending on your game, it may actually be better, faster, cheaper to write your own engine entirely. (people are going to scream at me for saying that) Many programmers like doing everything anyways- what fun is being a programmer that doesn't code?

2. Artists: Your game needs content. This may even be split up where you have seperate texture artists, 3d modelers, and animators. Someone has to make all of the eye candy, even if you just buy it from third parties on websites that specialize in selling art. When players say that a game has good graphics, they are usually talking about the artwork.

3. Sound Engineers: These guys go bump in the night. They make all of the sounds and music for your game.

4. Game Designers: These guys tell everyone else what to make. You don't just blow money making any random sounds and models. They may also create the rough storyline for the game and determine the general look and feel. These guys may also create the quests and dungeons.

5. Storywriters: Someone with talent has to take the game designers ideas and fill in the lore. They also write for the website and help with marketing.

6. PR and Marketing: These guys buy adds and use any means necessary to acquire players and retain them. This includes support.

7. Money: You'll have to pay these people and buy adds and servers.

I only use languages I like at home and use what others pick for me at work.

I use C++ almost entirely at home but at work I use Perl, Java, Javascript, PHP and of course the big 3 database languages.

People tend to complain that C++ is too hard or that it takes too long to complete anything. Usually its just that they are unfamiliar with it or buy into the hype that a good programmer needs to use over 9000 languages in any given project because relearning how to code 9000 times is more productive than just using the same language (and reusing code!).

Some people actually boast about knowing so many languages, and 90% of them are nearly identical but always have some weird rule or syntax to differentiate.

Though the languages I hate the most are the ones that people use not because they are easier, but because they buy into advertising and think that by just switching languages every 4 years you work more efficiently. (like Visual Basic coming out with new and sometimes incompatible versions all the time-- especially ASP)

Using most managed languages are a pain if you are doing anything besides making a website or some ultra generic database frontend. Not to mention memory leaks caused by programmers raised on managed code that believe they are exempt from memory management. (seriously, how hard is it to assign to NULL to tell GC to delete or to not use allocators in loops?)

Although the thing I hate the most about VB and C# is that it costs thousands of dollars to buy the IDE every 4 years and the legal agreement between you and Microsoft that allows them access to your code and gives them the ability to disallow you from using it. Most other languages are free.

Actually, most MMORPGs use a combination of 1 and 4.

Most of the work is done by simply changing the textures. They used to render each part of the body as a seperate mesh/group so they could be textured individually, but now many games generate the texture dynamically by layering images and saving that to a texture and rendering that. This is because by using only one mesh, you only need to make one draw call. When you have many characters on screen this will burn a ton of CPU when they initially load. This is why in games like WoW sometimes character meshes will load far before the textures do, and they appear white.

Some types of armor have protrusions (like skirts, shoulders, helmets, etc). These are stored as part of the character model as meshes/groups that are turned on and off dynamically. These meshes may even be baked into the main mesh at runtime and stored as one vertex buffer to require only one draw call. They all share the same texture with the main mesh.

So typically there are no seperate meshes to load for each armor peice nor do you cram it all into a single model, they just reuse the generic protrusions and rebake the texture and vertex buffer each time the armor changes.

For best performance, one mesh, one texture (well, if you have multitexturing only one set of textures), one draw call.


On #2, you have this a bit wrong. You can playback animations on the shoulder. Just render it like you would any other mesh. You would be required to write code to sync these two independent animations.


What I intend on using is more inline with #3 and #4. I'll have a naked character model and seperate models for each armor set. They all have the same bones and play back the same animations at the same time. I'll mix and match armor pieces by simply drawing all of the required models with the different mesh/groups turned on and off. This is actually easier to code but it requires more draw calls- one per each mesh.


Mesh/Group - the smallest unit in the model that contains the triangles and can be assigned a material/texture. Because this can be hidden or assigned different textures and materials, these typically require their own draw calls.

Draw Call- In Direct3D this is any call to Draw() that causes the provided vertex buffer to be rendered. In OpenGL this is usually DrawArrays() or DrawElements(). The only way to change textures, shaders, etc between any group of verticies if to render them seperately.


is darkfall worth it?

Originally posted by l2avism

Originally posted by Thenarius

Hurr hurr, why wasn't this thread locked already?

Haven't these casual types ever heard of contraception?
THEY ARE SPREADING LIKE RABBITS and drowning out the real players!!!11
Who cares if they have more money as a group than WE DO
(sorry, I couldn't help myself- its not like this thread accomplished anything)



Originally posted by Einstein-DF

You are 18 bro from looking at your profile.


If you can handle DF then its all good from here.


Darkfall seems to have issues with the older PVE playerbase, which is quite fond of the no ganking (no risk) rule.


Good luck


thats actually backwards...Wow's average age is like 16 where pvp games like eve, shadowbane, and daoc(kicking my self on calling it a pvp, not really any risks here) the average age is like 28. (Most of the people I played with in shadowbane were old enough to be my dad).

Most of the old games had ganking and risks- this whole casual carebear thing exploded onto the scene within the last 7 years- before that it was a sub-genre, now its become THE genre. The isn't enough of us old types to keep these real pvp games alive anymore hence the several failed releases and the deaths of several classics.


Originally posted by Halow

I have gotten a couple of those actually.. a couple for each WoW account I have ever had.. which is like 4 different emails. Dunno how they get my email addresses.


google your email address- thats how

(they search for wow related keywords and mass parse email addresses they find)

Originally posted by grandpagamer

I received an email today, supposedly from Blizz telling me they had learned i was trying to sell my account. It went on about how its against the user agreement etc. The jist of it was that if i didnt send them my name, address, account name and PW my account would be locked. Pretty odd considering i havnt played WOW in going on a year and have not attempted to sell my account. I read here the other day about another phishy email someone received in regards to beta testing the upcoming xpac. So just wanted to let folks know that something might be up.


Blizzard would never ask for your account info. They have direct access to the database, they could just look it up. If they looked up your email address and your name to send you the email in question the rest of your info would be right there.

Sometimes it helps to use your common sense, if you sold your account to someone, they would have the password and info you sold to them, making any checks of this nature to ascertain proper ownership retarded. Besides, sending anything of this nature in an email is just asking for it to be stolen, email IS NOT a secure means of communication.

When your account is stolen, blizzard does have a lengthy procedure to recover it usually requiring a couple copies of photo id and like a 1 month escapade through red tape.

As a matter of fact, it would be best if you just assumed everything was phony first (usually the case everytime) and you always used the proper avenues for managing you account like the account page or blizzards phone number or even an in game gm (prepare to wait a few hours).

Originally posted by mmofanatic

Resuscribed to play with a friend who is using a trial. And all I have to say is, everyone i have talked to is very rude. Not sure why, but you ask a question in general chat and get called a noob. No one ever gives advice or a little bit of help.  Guess the elitists have nothing better to do.


I can say for a fact if you asked almost any generic question in general chat on my server you will get 9001 insults before you received 1 helpful response.

Most of these people are standing around waiting for arenas- a bunch of arena jerks really. Most of the pve elitist simply leave trade and general chat off.

I usually helped people out, but I have 2 tabs, 1 with tade and general, one without (my spam toggle fyi).

Originally posted by Omega3
Originally posted by Thenarius

Anyway, how could you miss BC? If you didn't kill Illidan pre-nerfs you didn't play WoW :(

Dammit, i missed the opportunity to experience the 0,01% of WoW that DID matter?  My life is pointless...


nonsense, everyone knows that the Kael'thas Sunstrider fight in tk was way harder than illidan


Just a little background, I come from the rural south so I haven't really had luck finding friends who are also gamers...

I have more nerd friends (the friends that really matter) online spread across several games than I do have nerd friends irl.

I signed my brother up for the zevra mount and later on he aided me in my adventures on the auction house with some gold he..., uh, acquired. Thats about it really. My sister ran around the nelf start area on trial but she still just plays runescape.

I don't really like wow but I keep coming back because of the devastating lack of viable alternatives and the small percentage of the game's population worth knowing. Wow is like the myspace of mmo's these days- trade chat beats twitter anyday. Wow also provides that undeniable short burst of shallow self satisfaction when you loot epics (a purple, how fabulous! super!)

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