Originally posted by redcloud16

Of all of the things to call them, why was 'themepark' chosen as the nickname for non-sandbox-y MMOs? 

Where did it come from, or who first coined it?

The term came from SWG use of content that was scripted like Jabba's Palace. Later on, like all other terms twisted and misused by the general populace. It came to determine the difference between open ended content: sandbox.  And scripted stuff: themepark.

Originally posted by ElderRat

Originally posted by Loktofeit

That any MMO gamer cares in anything other than a congratulatory manner says volumes about the state of modern MMOs.

why would any MMO gamer care about who beat a SINGLE PLAYER game in the first place? Just Saying.

 

I'll pass on the beta. But I will be picking it up on release. I enjoyed the first TL and I'm sure the next won't dissappoint either.

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by adam_nox

uh, in D2, characters and gear were stored online, as well as some other data was passed back and forth, while the servers generally 'trusted' your client.   You could still get lagged out, stuck in place, disconnected, etc. 

 

Anyways, besides making it easier to find vulnerabilities in the server code, providing an offline mode would just give the game to a bunch of freeloaders who don't want to pay for it, so screw that. 

 You mean through an increased understanding making it easier to build server emulators?  If so you have grasped it completely.

It makes it easier to build server emulators. It does not make it easier to hack their servers or dupe items on their servers. If you understand that, you have grasped it completely.

You're still wrong. Unless they create a completely different set of processes for the single player game it will give insight into processes running on the servers themselves. Never a good thing. I'm still waiting for you to provide any refutation of the point beyond nuh-uh.

I love these back and forths considering there are already 2 private D3 servers up and running lol.

Listen to yourself PLEASE... 2 private SERVERS up! No one is disputing that the game will not be hacked (emulated). What we are all getting at is that hackers won't be able to bring their crap to Blizzard servers like past games that allowed offline and online play as quickly because they don't allow online and offline data to intermingle.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by zymurgeist

Originally posted by adam_nox

uh, in D2, characters and gear were stored online, as well as some other data was passed back and forth, while the servers generally 'trusted' your client.   You could still get lagged out, stuck in place, disconnected, etc. 

 

Anyways, besides making it easier to find vulnerabilities in the server code, providing an offline mode would just give the game to a bunch of freeloaders who don't want to pay for it, so screw that. 

 You mean through an increased understanding making it easier to build server emulators?  If so you have grasped it completely.

It makes it easier to build server emulators. It does not make it easier to hack their servers or dupe items on their servers. If you understand that, you have grasped it completely.

Fooling the server into believing you have something you should NOT have IS hacking the freakin server dude! Get a grip! This has happened in two games I can think of that allowed offline and online play:

1. Diablo 2
2. Phantasy Star Online

Both games were a haven for duped items and bans were flyin fast and hard.

Originally posted by Zylaxx

Originally posted by FrodoFragins

I generally appreciate his input, but this review/rant is a total hack job of misinformation.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9WbqdYuba4&feature=plcp

 

He has several misconceptions/biases about D3.

 

1) He seems to think the scene can hack the game to be playable offline.  That's an absolute joke.  The best they can do is make it easier to connect to a server emulation once they are written.  I don't think he even grasps server/client relationships.

 

2) He seems to only care about the game as a single player game.  As such, he doesn't care about item hacking or bnet cheating.  He completely minimizes the benefit of storing all characters on their servers and running most of the code on their servers.  That doesn't mean that

 

3) He only sees the evils of the RMAH and completely ignores the gold AH.  Ever tried trading items in D2.  the options were to create a game name with the trade you wanted, but if it wasn't elite good luck.  The other popular method was  D2JSP, where one person profited financially and trades were not secure.  You might get a refund from d2jsp if you got scammed, but that's a major hassle.

 

4)  He's not even a fan of the genre and thus he clearly wasn't a serious online D2 player and doesn't understand the appeal.  Which is why he sees TL2, with an open BNET type of system, and POE which also is online only,as comparable.

 

If you want a simple single player hack&slash and aren't that interested in the genre, like Total Biscuit, then definitely buy Torchlight 2 for $20.  But don't take his review as being a well informed critique of the genre or the game.

Sorry but I agreed with most every word he said. 

People are too quick to jump in bed with any group they deem worthy for the cause, but truth be told when they eventually look around at the crowd they have gathered. They themselves find that it is littered with people they would not otherwise socialize with. Speak for yourself and others would not have a reason to speak for you.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by MikkelB

 Edit: I guess the really funny part is that you are basically saying that the system is perfectly hackable as it is. If that were true, if it was so easily done, why are you defending the system at all?

 

I know it's not as easy as changing the drop rates. They obviously have control over that variable on their servers. But you guys are just so basic with your understanding that you are blind to it... why?

Quoting on my phone is a pain in the  ass, so forgive me if this reply looks like ass. Anyway, Diablo 3 is basically setup as a MMO. I can't remember any situation that the WoW servers got hacked. Accounts, sure, but not the servers. But that's basically what you're suggesting here is going to happen with Diablo 3. Like I said, Diablo 2 was different and therefor it was easier to exploit it. Hacking, as in database manipulation is not as easy to do. Blizzard will be on their toes to prevent and combat the hackers, if they want to make the RMAH a success.

By the way, I did not suggest that their service is easily hackable now. The silly, old way of offline singleplayer system of Diablo 2 that some poster want to reintroduce is perfectly exploitable. If anything, the Diablo 3 method is much more secure, to not perfect I bet.

Right, the always online is more secure.

 

The other guy was arguing that adding a single player experience would make the game more hackable. It would cause there to be dupes.

 

Single player -> Your character is never allowed to go online ever for anything. Everything is stored locally on your PC.

 

Multiplayer - Exists exactly as it does now. Everything is on their servers.

 

Diablo 2 WAS different. That is what I was saying. Characters and gear were stored locallly and then you were able to go to battle.net with them.

 

But that doesn't mean that they can't easily separate the two from each other. You can have secure servers for everyone that wants to play multiplayer and get gear together, while still having a completely offline mode that is single player.

 

Single player does not equal more hacking than already could potentially exist.

It seems like you're not understanding what HE was saying. If Blizzard allowed users to use their SAME characters for offline as they did for online, it WOULD make hacking their servers easier. As they would have to have a version of the server program running on every users pc (That's why he SAID mini server). Having a copy of their server program in any way shape or form IS inviting hackers to have at it.

Also if they kept offline charcters seperate from online characters it WOULD be easier to hack than having online characters only (That's exactly what happened in D2). Again it would mean that code is accepted to a point where it's telling the server which characters are not allowed online (think about it.)

But having online characters only at all times does NOT give hackers an edge that the two scenerios above would. Since everything is handled server side. Hence the reason that items do disappear eventually.

Originally posted by Grumper

12 hours or 20 hours, either way it  is certainly disappointing.  Hell, even 30 hours is.

As many previous posts have mentioned Blizzard is most likely thinking its a 100+ hour game they have created with all the difficulty levels.  Whether it is D3 or WoW, They are firm believers that more difficulty levels = more content.  There are many many fans that happen to agree with that. 

I happen to fall on the other side of that opinion.  More difficulty levels does not equal more content.  It may have been my disposition all along, or it may be because of the games i grew up on.  When i am grouping with my friends, gaining levels, gearing up, finally to take down that boss that was a thorn in our side and move on, im expecting to see a new challenge in front of me, not the same thing over again, but with larger numbers.

Then you my good sir are not a connoisseur of the H&S genre. No harm in that. Just try to understand the point of these types of games when you buy them in the first place (That is if you even bought it in the first place.). And I'll be the first to admit that I'm not hardcore fan of the H&S genre. I cut my teeth on Sacred, Torchlight and Titan's Quest. I did play D1 with a friend for hours on end and D2 was well beyond my reach when I finally jumped aboard.

This genre is more about what gear you're rockin rather than did you finish yet. And I can pretty much guarentee that in a few weeks when you are looking for a multi player session and you have NOT cleared to at LEAST nightmare, you'll be playing alone or only with a group of friends willing to run your through to unlock that difficulty.

I hate to say it, but gear runs originated in D2.

Originally posted by Purutzil

Very satisfying to me. The over-all environment was rather engaging and entertaining for a dungeon diver like me to find great pleasure out of playing. As a fan of Diablo 2 I was disapointed with the dumbing down of the mechanics, but in the end it wasn't that huge of an 'ick' factor to me. I'd say putting pros/cons

 

Pros:

1.)  Fun Dungeon Crawling Combat

2.) Interesting story development (gives a more action feel in many sections)

3.) Random events provide extra challenge while normally partying.

Cons:

1.) Ending is a bit... lackluster. Felt like it should of done more.

2.) A bit to far dumbed down, itemization as of now seems a bit iffy making pure stat items generally best

3.) Relatively short. Under 12 hours of gameplay going straight through from start to end. 

 

If you enjoy dungeon crawlers and those old style click away games, you probably will enjoy this more then you expect even with them taking a lot of the rpg elements into the casual level. 

1.) Agreed

2.) Agreed

3.) Agreed

Cons:

1.) Hmm I cannot comment on this as I ave not finished normal yet.

2.) Odd that you would come to this conclusion seeing as the items you would have finished with were maybe rare at best. There are still at least 3 tiers beyond that. Dunno maybe you were extremely lucky and finished with a set or in full legendary gear.

3.) Pretty irrelevant seeing as D3 is at best what you mentioned as a dungeon crawler. Pretty much a glorified Guantlet arcade game. And there is nothing wrong with that. Titan, Sacred 1 and 2, Torchlight, Fate and many other DCs (dungeon crawlers) have similar run times for normal if not less. That is the nature of the beast in this particular genre. It's set up that way so you CAN steamroll through even faster when you are better geared. So commenting on finishing on normal is like commenting on beating an action game on very easy.

The real question DC players want to know is: How's your gear looking

Originally posted by Paradigm68

Here are some good reasons that have nothing to do with the hero engine.

This is from another article about ESO:

ZeniMax Online's Paul Sage says "it needs to be comfortable for people who are coming from a typical massively multiplayer game that has the same control mechanisms

its combat centres around hotbars activating skills. Your attacks have cooldowns. In clear terms, that means no real-time combat. It is literally explained as using "World of Warcraft mechanics"

"keeping large areas inaccessible to save them for use as expansion content"

Only "some fraction" of the caves and other landmarks in the game are waiting completely unmarked and unexplored

You can't own a house because it's "too hard to implement in an MMO"

It even looks like just another fantasy MMO, losing much of the refined elegance of Bethesda's games in exchange for a simpler style that looks little like the past few games in the series.

Just goes to show you how shallow and scripted these sacred cows people around here seem to think "open-world" SPRPG really are. When in fact they are the epitome of theme park in delivery and structure. They have to take their core game's lore and system and basically rehaul the whole damn thing in order for it to be qualified as a themepark mmo in their own eyes. Nice...

So much for the champions of such games hailing them as the day current mmos would harken back to the days of old if they were to even make them into full fledge mmos.

Originally posted by Mirslp

Originally posted by Falcomith

OH NO! ITS THE END OF THE WORLD THREAD!

Relax, they are having an influx of people right now. They will get it tuned. We had the same issue in earlier betas when the servers were getting hit hard.

Yet you think this is okay???....

 

You dont go and buy a new TV and get home setting it up just to get the message... im not ready... im not sure when i will be ready... but i will be sometime soon.

 

With all the years in this business they are way smarter than that... you know what.... they dont care.

 

Im a EU player so i shouldnt be affected by NA server maintanence.

 

Gah....

Originally posted by AtmaDarkwolf

what were we waiting for?

 

 

First swtor now d3, just goes to show how much a few bucks tossed in the face of some reporter can 'overhype' a game :P

Originally posted by Mirslp

Yes i am raging.

 

This is not okay. If a company in a another industry did this they would loose customers in heaps. They are pissing at us because they know they can. Blizzard has become too lenient.

And why why why why have a server login for a part-singleplayer game..... even more stupid when you cant manage your servers like the should.

Who else is getting this bullshit now? 20 hours after launch... good goind blizz.

I cannot remember the last time I played an mmorpg strictly for the smooth general and combat animation. I tend to play for the interesting themes, skill systems, customizations, immersion and atmosphere. Something like combat and general animations are usually worked on well into a mmos launch. But the other things I named are usually core features of a given mmo and don't usually get worked on right away.

If an mmo can grab my interest at first impressions, I tend to overlook minor things like animations. Especially as long as the trigger and response times are good. Which btw in TSW they are as far as I'm concerned.

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I think the article said player housing is not possible as the players want it.

well assuming for a moment that the housing in the smash hit game called Skyrim is how TES players at least 'like it' how is it a housing system that is more basic than EQ2 hard to do 'as players want it'?