Ok, question from noob to SW vets: What class would Darth Tyrannus (Count Dooku) fall under? Inquistor or Warrior?

 1-2 week closed beta - beggars can't be chosers.

I entered

 Most true, thane. However, WoW somehow got millions of subscribers and the other games subscriptions declined.

So, developers and investors connected the dots. Make the game easy and fun, make money. Make it difficult : don't expect a big return on your investment.  Much as I am a critic of Brad McQuaid (original EQ and Vangaurd developer), he made a statement that rings true: (paraphrased because he has fallen/ been bought off lol) 

If you make a game where wolves eat sheep, pretty soon the wolves run out of sheep.

No game investor wants to lose money. Hardcore game mechanics and/or design will have much more to overcome than a WoW clone. For enthusiasts like all of us on this forum, we tend to push the more challenging aspects of MMO gameplay. Most of the gaming world doesn't want that experience. They are used to a console/ solo game experience.

Originally posted by Qurell

I don't see the OP mentioning PvP anywhere. I just want to say that i would like the idea with mobs looting me when i have failed to kill them. Why do full loot have to be pvp only?

Now that would be a nice twist wouldn't it? Suppose you (and if your teamed, your group) got wiped by a boss mob. The game now loots you! Your toon now has been a assigned an optional mission of reclaim. Perhaps you have a choice. Forfeit the mob rare item drop for a guarantee drop of your gear. That would defintely mix things up !

 We will miss you Dana.

Sounds like needs a training room like CoH or Champs to test skills

 I always thought dark age of camelot had a good start by allowing groups/ guilds hold a keep. Then realm versus realm concept where everyone contributes to their own race. Warhammer botched it up by the whole 'keep swapping' fiasco.

Shadowbane was another good idea where guilds would build their own fort.  If I were a designer I would create natural barriers and strategic choke points to let players discover so they can claim their own territories, or design a crafting system where players can create barriers like walls or fortified outposts to defend territories. 

 The Star Trek Universe had no more of commerce? I thought there was currencies like Latinum. If a exploring ship came across a society they bartered as well like in Star Trek Voyager.

As far as "ship death penalty' is concerned, I don't see Cryptic imposing much. Time is most likely the biggest thing again. difference between the Star Trek canon and this game is that if you die in the game, you can still play. In the series if you die, you are likely to be scannned or examined by McCoy so he can say, "He's Dead, Jim."

Originally posted by Yamota

I think it is fine that Klingons are mostly about PvP. What I dont think is fine is if the amount of content is small so you will get bored quickly. For example, the instanced PvP matches in Champions Online was fun at start but quickly got repetetive and old since there was no overreaching goal.

If Klingon PvP i just like instanced PvP matches in Champions Online then Cryptic needs to have it as a high priority to expand on the Klingon content because that wont be enough for even a month of gaming. In my opinion what they really need to focus on is to have terrotorial control through PvP where clans/guilds/groups of people can claim a sector of space and gain some benefits from both taking it and holding it.

If that was implemented I think it would give enough content for both Klingon and PvP Federation players for quite a while. Instanced PvP mini games wont be enough, not by a long shot.

Yamota is right - a PvP only character will be restricted in content. Don't forget PvP needs other players. What if you can only play during less tan peak hours? What if the Fed players are grinding to end game content? You think Fed players are going to grind PvP scenarios like in WAR? 

I understand the idea that Klingons are more militaristic, but at least give them access to Public Mission areas where PvP is there. Those competitive Public Missions were fine by me. Give Klingons "Honor" points (read WAR inlfuence) so they can get upgrades and such.

Good Luck STO. Your die hard fans will take whatever you give them. Hope it is enough to keep the servers up

 I wonder if was Atari or Cryptic that is pushing the dev team for this.  Well, can't say I didn't expect it. They were working on two big games at the same time - Champions and STO. I wondered how they could do both at the same time. 

Listening to that podcast I get the feeling they still have a ways to go. They expect this to launch with polish in early 2010?

 lets put this thread on the table.

You want to put your money where your mouth is? Every time you die your credit card is charged $5.00.

 Hmm. On one hand, Star Trek was never really focused on Klingons as the main hero, but on the other hand if you are going to make them playable do it right.

Are they using the LORTO model for PvP? just have klingons be the monsters?

Rush rush to launch as many have said. Time is a wastin', Champ subs gonna fall off and we need STO Lifetime subs to roll in..

Interest in game -1

 The underlying factor of all this is that sports, poker, and MMOs are all games. We partake in their activities because we enjoy the activity. However, in MMOs, there is a lot of virtual things to enjoy.  Death Penalty advocates want to see more risk / reward in encounters so they can tout their prize. But what if you like crafting? Spawn camping? What if you like deep rich lore? What if you want to explore and unlock metagames? I will be less likely to spend money on that multi million dollar investment if It hurts too much too often to obtain some reward that can only be gotten by a guild that is on 24 -7 (heck, chinese farmers anyone?).

Todays devs are taking the sting out of death penalties because they want players to enjoy their game. More people leave a game if it is too frustrating to play than leaving a game because everyone has the same purple gear.

 I  was enarmored with the cutscenes of Guild Wars. Only downside was if a player in my group didn't like it the cutscenes were rushed through.

Bioware may actually change the dynamic of player satisfaction in MMOs. Instead of players running through quests to get purple gear baubles, we may be experiencing a game to see what a cutscene outcome may be. Drama in the game could be almost a currency ...

Just a thought

 Remember this is a single rpg game. There is little incentive to keep players on for months on end.  Death penalty of time is the now normal. Fallen toons also suffer debuffs (injuries) until you use a kit on them.

The other thing you have to consider : the Pause button. Can't do that in MMOs either. It is enjoyable, but can't go overboard comparing it to MMOs.

Overall the basic storyline is good.  However, like I suspected, you can't account for the freedom many players enjoy. The game may let you vary paths a little, but it is eventually going to nudge or deny you actions if you don't move the story foward. 

SW:TOR - will we expect the same?

 If any of you out got Dragon Age, how many of you feel if this is what Bioware meant by "story driven" for SWTOR? How many of you out there felt it will be totally different?

Originally posted by Ravanos

I don't know why all the hype over Dragon Age to be honest, the story is generic the characters are bland and the classes are extremely limited in customization. when i got my first advanced class i was really excited till i found out how little it impacted my characters playstyle.

what because i can choose my dialog? wooo so i can be snarky, or evil or the good guy but really nothing changes except my party members may not like me .... awwww.

 

its a decent game, just glad i didnt spend money on it if you know what i mean.

The yellow part concerns me in regards to the Star wars Bioware/EA MMO.

If Dragon Age is the model of "story" based gaming, then worry for the online MMO they are making. The perspectives of starting out are different, but they all meld together in Ostagar and there is little or no variance. I bet the MMO will be like Guild wars, which isn't bad. The down side is that GW is free to play.

 Sure it is a good idea. However, you have to ask why give away content so early after launch?

that is where the skeptics come in.  Does anyone remember any subscriber mmo giving away free content a month after launch?

I don't think they are giving away content because they are feeling generous. If the game was meeting or exceeding sub goals, you wouldn't be getting this offer

Originally posted by robert4818

Outlaws.  Bonnie and Clyde, Al Capone, John Dillenger.  What do these people have in common?  They all lived very well off the spoils of their crimes, and in the end all suffered a very harsh fall at the end of it.

Only Al Capone of your list had a group which could exact revenge. The rest were truly on their own. Is this suitable for an MMO.. They also didn't meet their end from a server crash, lag or their internet service disrupted from a electrical storm/ pet pulled the plug from the computer, etc.

That is the appeal of playing the bad guy.  There is easy, big, pay-offs.  But in the end there is a good chance of losing it all.  The concept is that there is a balance between High Risk/High Reward.    This is a balance that in most MMO's that use open PVP i've not seen.  In general, there is High Reward balanced by/minimum risk. 

I would like to see a perma-death system for Outlaws, but one that being perma-killed is not an easy prospect (if you're smart).  Now what this means is that you can jump into PVP to rob and loot, without fear that if the person wins, you are done for good.  That makes for very little fun.  However, after you have done enough crimes, someone may come deliberately looking for you.  In that case, you need to be afraid, very afraid. 

The system would work something like this:

When you kill someone, they get a message telling them that they have the option of reporting this crime.  The window they have for reporting a crime is roughly one-week.  After which time the crime disappears from their log.  To report a crime they have to go to the local law office and report it.  (They also have in their log the option to "Forgive" the crime and delete it.)  To do this they talk to the NPC in the office and they see a pop up window with things like:   "Killed by 1337dude" [Report].  Clicking on the "Report" button would be all that was needed to report the crime.

When anybody has been reported for a crime, the computer will offer up bounties on the person.  The amount of the bounty is determined by the number of crimes reported under that character's name. 

If you are dead, can you really report a crime? ;) Just yanking your chain.

Once a player (or group of players) requests to pick up a bounty they are each given an item to use on that person's corpse.  This item is not a generic "Any wanted person" item.  It is specific to the person being hunted.  I.E. it could be a crystal labeled "Bounty Crystal for 1337dude"

The other characters have to then hunt you down.  Not an easy prospect if you are a smart outlaw.  Once your character is killed, and the item is used on your corpse, your character is permanently killed.

Now i recognize a few weaknesses in this overall concept.  The first is that it will ONLY work, if you are only allowed 1 character per server per account.  2nd is that it is exploitable by someone who dual boxes with multiple accounts.  The hunted player could easily transfer all his ill-gotten gains to his 2nd character and then off himself.  The question comes down to how easy it is to recover that character that you sacrifice to do that.

This is the system concept.  You have the normal high rewards that a full-loot open world PVP system offers, and a very high potential risk.  This risk is a harsh penalty, but one that must be deliberately applied, not one that may hap-hazardly hit you if you jump in to a random fight and hit a lag-spike.

What do you guys think?

You want a high risk? How about the game charges you $5 per resurrection of your toon?

 New game from IGG

Heroes of Grindage and Microtransactions

 There will be gnomes - and the leader will be Mini Me