Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by evolver1972

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by evolver1972

The way I see it, changing the terminology is only going to change the terminology of an argument.  "Is it a sandbox or themepark?"  Will just turn into "Is it a VOWRPG or MMORPG?".  Either way, people are just going to argue to death where a specific game fits into whatever categories.  Frankly, that debate is pretty meaningless to me.  Does it really matter if a game is one or the other?  Or if it fits into one category or another?  I don't think so.  Someone saying X game is a sandbox only to have someone else come along and say no, it's a themebox with sand rails kind of kills the intent behind the categorization, I think.

VOW would have specific connotations. So if you say VOW in the title all the people who play themeparks or games with no virtual world vfeatures would butt the hell out.

There is no ambiguity. WoW SWTOR and RIFT are clearly not VOWS.

That's exactly my point.  Supposedly, sandbox and themepark have specific connotations as well, but people sure have a fun time arguing what games fit into those categories.

 

There will always be people (right or wrong) who will argue that such and such game belongs in such and such category.

 

That's not to mention people arguing the merits of either subgenre.

 

I'm not saying your idea is necessarily a bad one, just that I don't think it will solve any issues.  In fact it may create some.  It would be interesting to see if it catches on.

Well eventually the term will be come diluted. Because English. But for a couple years maybe we can have some clarity in a sea of chaos.

That was kind of my point as well.  You just put it more succinctly than I did.  :)

Anyway, you need the "O" in there for "online", which implies multiplayer.  Skyrim and Dragon Age are VWRPG's.  All "virtual world" really means to most people  is "3D evironment" and techincally Zork was a "virtual world".

Originally posted by t0nyd

Originally posted by corpsegank

Originally posted by t0nyd

If you worked in IT security you would understand why they are blocking certain IP's. The average, easiest, and best method of hacking is social engineering. No matter how tight you secure something, acl's, vlans, vm's, the weak leak will always be the end user. When morons set their password to their childname and birthdate, which is all to common, any decent hacker will easily get that person into a conversation about their child. Social engineering takes very little technical know how and blocking IP's will reduce phishing scams, etc.

So you're saying the mentioned regions are being IP blocked because of idiots?

That's the user's fault, not ours. They should promote account security and such, not fuckin' block regions

 

 Yes, the average end user is an idiot. Yes, the smart people of the world are punished for what the idiots do. Half the laws in the United States exist because the average person is mentally challenged. If the average person were intelligent we wouldnt need speed limits, anti-drug laws, seat belt laws, a drinking age, etc.

Don't quote me on this, but I am pretty sure the average person in the US is of average intelligence.

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Cuathon

Originally posted by Apraxis

 

 

Well see in TTS you CAN wield anything in the game. Anything. Level doesn't matter. Mostly because there are no levels.

However, your character stats and skills might not be as good as a more powerful player, depending on what they spent their time on. Maybe they are much better at various things than you.

Also the way that mana works in TTS having another player supply you mana is a HUGE deal. Now, your friend may not be able to have as large of an effect on a battle as you, but he will have some. Having another player with you is ALWAYS a benefit. Obviously if you have a power level of 1million and he has one of 10000 he isn't a big asset.  How does one person have 100 times the power level of another player in a game with "no levels"?But he is one. And he can do power level independent things. Like setting traps while you do other stuff. Scrying for other enemies, casting spells that you are too busy to cast. Typically in anything when a really high power level player is working together with lower power level players, the fight is going to be more than 2 people anyways. I dislike always having to explain how its very RTS like.

But if you keep insisting on referring to levels, which don't exist in TTS, you will probably always be trapped in wah wah land where your  thoughts don't apply to TTS.

It really irks me when people say that their game design doesn't have levels.  It has levels, just because you call them something else, doesn't mean that it's not levels, or effectively the same thing.  UO had levels, Eve has levels, it's just lots (in UO's case) or lots an lots (in Eve's case).

Any MMO that involves PVE is going to need some sort of vertical progression.  Saying that "my game doesn't have much verticle progression, it has horizontal progression" is a red herring.  If you have to play a long time to open game content up, that's verticle progression.  If you do it by opening up a bunch of different skills (buying honey, climbing trees, laying traps) or by increasing the power of the characters - at the end of the day, it is still a progression system which demands the players spend a lot of time playing their character.

But since the idea is for your players to play the game for a long time, neither one is a bad idea.   The problem with the many skills thing is that it makes it much more difficult to implement and balanced, and you still wind up with "optimum builds", and at the end of the day, less player variety than a class and level based game like the original EQ.

Originally posted by rojo6934

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by DarkPony
 

You lose $50 if you do that.

Regular copy of game + lifetime sub purchase = $250

Lifetime sub =$200

So, if you are sure you are going to play it for 11 + months, it's better to get the lifestime.

its hard to be sure your playing nonstop for so long time these days.... i prefer not to lose anything, but if i have to lose money i rather lose 50 than 250

Oh, I agree.  I was just pointing out there is a reason to get the LTS prior to getting the game.

Originally posted by DarkPony

To all contemplating to spend their money on a lifetime sub without having looked the actual horse in its mouth yet:

Be wise and wait a bit. Apart from a few days headstart there's nothing to win but much to lose by commiting yourself early as it will be offered post launch as well: if it turns out to be a blast you can still make that step but it will be a much better informed decision.

So unless you really like gambling or have a money tree in your back yard: a little patience is a virtue.

<3

You lose $50 if you do that.

Regular copy of game + lifetime sub purchase = $250

Lifetime sub =$200

So, if you are sure you are going to play it for 11 + months, it's better to get the lifestime.

Originally posted by Fascinez

is EqNext still in the works?  I haven't heard anything about that one in a long time.

Not as a AAA MMORPG no.  Maybe as a social game.

I will readily admit this is one I am guilty of...

Can I please have a Guild Wars 2 fanboi filter on these god damned forums?

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Gee Ross, LEARN to write!  It was painstaking trying to extract the storyline out of that dialog.

I am always amazed that players think they can trust the goons, when they are completely untrustworthy.  As to Eve, as usual, everything gets blown out of proportion.  It is both sad and amusing at the same time.

You did better than me.  I thought someone actually had died.  Eve players are weird.  It's good they have a weird game for themselves.

Originally posted by ignore_me

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Robsolf

 

 

You can't forget the butt-sore swgers who will never grow up and just move on from their NGE hatred and who are putting on swtor.

This is basically the problem, plus the 30% of the community here who just bitch about anything.   Did all these "Star Wars" Fans ever watch any of the movies or play any of the Old Republc games?  I don't remember Han Solo dancing in a lot of cantinas or Annakin going out into the wilderness to build  a house for himself.  The game is exactly what any reasonable person should have expected - a Knights of the Old Republic game, with lots of multiplayer elments... oh yeah, and it's got tunnel shooter gameplay, which KOTR didn't have... so let's bitch about it because it's not X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

If they closed down your SWG, because it wasn't making enough money, you should have got your friends to play it. 

The movies don't support gameplay because they are fast-paced, don't have much exposition, and follow a linear narrative. MMOs typically need a space you spend time, non-linear activities, and need the blanks filed in that the movies should not (details of life etc.) ..They didn't depict the guy who built anakin's house, but somebody built the damn thing, so if houses go up someone will have to build it. I always like the "It wasn't in the movies" argument. Sorry, there is a reason that they don't build houses in movies... it's boring If you had to do it that way the game would last about 10 hours. But the game doesn't last 10 hours, so you know what you're talking about?  There is some running around in the game, but there's still more than 10 hours of PVE and diagloge content.  The "I am the star of the galaxy 100% of the time" thing doesn't work either. You need contrasts that is why there are other characters in the movies besides the 4 or 5 main characters, to make them look special. Narcissism is fantastic.  But what does that have to do with anything, because, you're not the star in either game, right?  You were the guy doing shit too boring to show in a movie in one game, and a guy doing the more interesting things in the 2nd game.

It's easy to kick the dead game, so good for you on that one. I played the game, at one time had four accounts running at once, all my friends played, and I was in a large guild. Guess that didn't work. Probably because the answer isn't as simple as you suggest.

If all your friends are playing an MMO, you need to get out of the house, man.  Had everyone cancelled their account at the time of the NGE, they would have changed it back.  It's pretty simple.  Corporations sole reason for existence is to make money for their owners.  You've quite clearly identified yourself as a "butt hurt NGE player", so what are you arguing?   Bioware didn't make SWG.

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by DannyGlover

My personal favorite:
"I started playing Meridian 59 back in 96"

Translation:
"I looked up the oldest mmo on the list here and claimed it as my first in order to gain clout"

That one is a gem. A title that probably fewer than 5K people ever played, yet every one of them ends up posting on the forums here.

I also like people who rattle off their MMORPG pettigree, usually with a list of 25 games or so, makes you wonder if they ever really liked any of them since their tenure in them had to be short.

 

Really, fewer than 5000 ever played Meridian 59?  I guess I am special then, although I admit I didn't play it long as there wasn't much to do I thought.  I do remember though seeing another player for the first time and running away as scared as can be LOL.  Only real memory I have of it anymore though...

As for my favorite cliche though, I like "But the developer of game XXX really cares about the players not the money"

From Wikipedia, fwiw, "More than 25,000 players joined the game's public beta that lasted up until its commercial launch on September 27, 1996,"

I installed it and played it a little bit.  Too many technical difficulties and UO was coming out soon.  Think I went back to Dragonrealms until then.

If it's no open world PVP, it's not sandbox.

Never could grasp that one, but I read it all the time.

Originally posted by waynejr2

Originally posted by Robsolf

 

 

You can't forget the butt-sore swgers who will never grow up and just move on from their NGE hatred and who are putting on swtor.

This is basically the problem, plus the 30% of the community here who just bitch about anything.   Did all these "Star Wars" Fans ever watch any of the movies or play any of the Old Republc games?  I don't remember Han Solo dancing in a lot of cantinas or Annakin going out into the wilderness to build  a house for himself.  The game is exactly what any reasonable person should have expected - a Knights of the Old Republic game, with lots of multiplayer elments... oh yeah, and it's got tunnel shooter gameplay, which KOTR didn't have... so let's bitch about it because it's not X-Wing vs Tie Fighter.

If they closed down your SWG, because it wasn't making enough money, you should have got your friends to play it. 

Originally posted by iller

Originally posted by austriacus

Originally posted by Nevulus

I love how much info this guy has on a game that he has never played. 

 

Really you know exactly how challenging encounters are without ever playing the game?

In an mmorpg where the "tankiest" character gets basically 1 shoted  by an aoe in 2 seconds in a fight you KINDA can speculate that it has a reasonable amount of difficulty.

This is not random shit im making up, its in the god dam videos.

It's not even that.

It's 7-1/2 years of LISTENING to the carefully parse language of every single statement ever made by all of their developers on all balance issues they've ever contended with.

When you parse language you take it out of context and lose the thread of the meaning, which would explain a lot of your misconceptions.  Get out there and try some other games, your head is very deep in the sand,.

• Curt Schilling – 38 Studios (Copernicus)
• Matt Higby – SOE (Planetside 2)
• Craig Morrison – Funcom (Age of Conan)
• Jon Peters – ArenaNet (Guild Wars 2)
• James Ohlen – BioWare (SWTOR)
• Brian Knox – En Masse Entertainment (TERA)
• Rob Hill – Trion (Defiance)

Originally posted by iller

@ the OP...

Some it is Hype.  Most of it is real though...

 

Hype:

-Full blown full-time-job Theme-park MMORPG that can replace WOW.  <--- nope sorry

(Anet can't possibly generate that much content and even if they could, it wouldn't mean they SHOULD, quality would suffer)

-Unlimited Exploration potential.   <--- Exploring rewarded? Yes.... 100% un-impeded? Nope sorry.

(We can blame THE PRESS for this one b/c not one of those morons has shot video of the zone-boundaries yet)

-Complete Dissolution of the old RPG questing system.  <---  STOP SMOKING POT, & GROW UP PLZ.  

We would have to Genetically engineer our own brains into some kind of Abstract 4th-dimensional energy matrix in order to ever be rid of the need for the basic mechanics of having  Clear Goals, hints on how to reach those goals, and PROGRESS indicators telling us how close we are, to keep us motivated.

 

REAL:

+Cookie Cutter builds finally getting some checks and balances against them. Yes, like self heals and not dieing when you die. 

+Events really will make the ecology of all zones ... which will effect Economics.  For 20 minutes, until it resets.

+All Encounters designed from the GROUND UP to provide challenge without requiring a bunch of minmaxxed Support Roles.  (If your DPS'ers position correctly, & build & time their CC-trait procs right... they'll make short work of any challenge without needing a bunch of Guardians & Water-eles supporting them)

+The ability to play and explore casually how you want to without getting that nagging feeling that other people are "progressing" a lot faster than you.  (the DE & Exemplaring means that ALL progress is horizontel and based off your "social progression" rather than your Specialized timesinks)

+Zerging won't "win" most  WvWvW battles.  Alliances and Resource denial will.... This hasn't been tested or confirmed anywhere, but I know it to be true.

+The CashShop WILL pay for constant new Content generation, without being as Evil/P2W as F2P games are. Just like the last... wait, nevermind.

+Anet doesn't pull "bait and switches" (...however  sometimes they do put cool stuff into the game, promise it, play with it for a while, and get their own hearts broken when it doesn't actually work right and they have to pull it again)  They called GW1 an MMO, they and now you are a liar.

+PvP Rank discrimination finally gone b/c titles are hidden and Tourneys can finally be player-created.

+Even when classes fill the same roles (main-Aggro/CC/Debuff/Boon/DPS), they WILL play completely different from eachother in the execution of those roles.  ...this is why WE DONT NEED ANY NEW CLASSES in future expansions *(only new weapon sets!)  So, you will be paying $40 for new weapon sets.  Great! 

+No more "UR A N00b" Surprises AFTER forming teams.  We'll be able to tell how qualified someone is instantly just by watching them fight in the same persistant zones we'll be forming those teams in. And then call them a noob and boot them.

+All combat really will be visual and reward positioning and reflexive ground-targeting. Because everyone knows that in combat, shooting or stabbing then ground is the way to go.

+Teams that make use of Cross-profession Combos really will have a big advantage over teams that don't.  I know this, because they ripped it off from LOTRO., and it works there.

+Patches will address Degenerate PvP metas and they WILL come out monthly for atleast the first 2 years. Now I am just makign shit up.

+Holiday events will always offer players some useful and fun rewards. Which means they'll still be lame.

+Will allow casual players to reach full power (skill/gear/&mods) without a need to Grind. WoW invented this 9 years ago.

+Will allow hardcores to grind achievements without making them statistically better than anyone else. Which of course the hardcores will see no point in doing.

+All Graphics (except for the particle effects) will "age" really well in comparison to other MMO's b/c they're stylized instead of hardware & poly-dependent.  Once they figure out how to make your targeted character 3D.

+Confront the "The less coverage it has, the more AL it provides" rule for Female armor. 2 shits.

+TowerDefense fanatics will eventually get a TD game mode = they can finally stop playing L.O.L. 3 shits.

+Twitchy Action gamers will finally have an MMORPG that doesn't bait and switch them by ending in a Gear-Treadmill (FUCK OFF, SONY!!) And then 80% of the market that doesn't like action games will turn their GW2 DVD into an expesnive coaster.

Originally posted by Sythion

 

My memories of EQ do preclude it from skill or strategy. It was hard, but the only skill I remember was avoiding mobs correctly.  You probably didn't play it very much, or maybe played a robe caster.  Imagine playing a puller/tank in a party where you have to do things like memorize which monsters are linked, depending on your level, determining what pulls your party can handle and which it couldn't, balancing getting "FM" before pulling verus the benefits of keeping spawn "broken" by pulling monsters to your group with higher frequency, timing your scant taunt abilities to be used to save characters in your party, but also try to maximize the group's effiecency. I also seem to remember huge RNG, where I could use the same abilities in two different fights against the same monster and have drastically different outcomes. Although it's challenging, there's not much room for skill or strategy there either. I could be wrong. Feel free to elaborate if I am.  You are wrong, but probably 65% of the player base was of the same mindframe as you, so don't take it too hard.

Also, I don't want to say there is no strategy without build options. Since people are limited in what they can do in a fight, what abilities you choose to utilize in a fight effectively becomes your "build." I just think one of the best ways to encourage this is to limit how many are available to force thinking and problem solving when creating a character.  I agree that games need to let players create their own characters.  The WOW idea that all players are basically retarded and can't be trusted to think, is patently false.

Originally posted by Vannor

I too state this game is not overhyped.

If you like what you see in all the videos, stay hyped.

...and then see your optometrist.

Shameless bump to try and get a few more votes and opinions before I pick up the game design doc again.

When I see "lifetime sub" being offered, to me it's a red flag that says "We don't feel confident that we can get you to play for 18 months".  WoW didn't offer any lifetime subs.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Jeff Strain doesn't work for NCSoft (ANet) anymore either.  He has his own gig with Undead Labs.  Patrick Wyatt, one of the three founders, now works at En Masse.  Only Mike O'Brien is left of the original 3 at ANet.

So basically, the OP doesn't know what he's talking about?

Originally posted by Loke666

Empires of the Phoenix is the one I could see myself playing, it have potential.

Generic next gen fantasy game is hardest to pull off because the competition is really hard there even if your magic system seems close to Shadowruns schamanic magic than regular MMO styled magic. Now if the rest of the world also were closer to Shadowruns  or R.I.F.T.S it could be a winner....

PG and EoF just don´t sound like my type of cake.

I don't know about Shadowrun's magic scheme, I'll have to look into it.  Maybe a combination of the magic scheme from the 4th game with the other gameplay elements of Empires of the Phoenix would be a better way to go.  It certainly would be a step farther away from today's typical MMO games.  The thought of re-inventing combat mechanics at the same time as implementing the world that changes to suit the players is a bit daunting, but maybe technically it won't be that bad.

The thought of trying to compete on the artwork level for a 3rd gen fantasy MMO is fairly daunting.