All Posts by Orthedos

Originally posted by magealch7

i will give you a 100% perfect example of a "true" sandbox game. whether it will come out or anything related to that is questionable, but the perfect example of a true sandbox game is one called darkfall. it has every statement that others have posted about sandbox games except "in my opinion" the false, misguided, or stupid ones. and yeah, WoW is not anywhere NEAR sandbox, but they do make an attempt (meaning they have some sandbox features), a sad attempt none-the-less, but an attempt. darkfall is THE best example of a sandbox game, read the majority of the features it has, i'm sure ALL non-stupid people here will agree that it IS a sandbox game. thanks for your time.

Very impressive.  Someone put up his first post to offer a solution to WoW, and his solution is an utopia affair.  Darkfall has not yet been produced, its only promised.  If I can trade a promise for a business like WoW, I am better than the best magician on earth.  I will promise you the moon, if you give me your monthly salary.  What? you want the sun as well?  Sure I can offer you a blank sheet and let you write anything you wanted.  All promised.  Just add a cheeseburger to your side of the deal.

The sandbox argument is getting old.  A game is good not because it is a sandbox alone.  A game is good if it has features that captures the imagination of gamers.  SWG was once good. not just b/c its a sandbox, its a game that is designed in which everyone matters.  Its a game that give the SW feel.  DAoC os good as it offers a RVR form of contest, for the WoW lover, WoW is good b/c it delivers on the fantasy of WC world, ...

Just building a sandbox for the sake of sandboxing, with no good features, will only give that sandbox game.  Its no more than that, and business has already proven that its not yet a viable business solution.  Not enough player base to make it a big business.  Sandbox alone will not pull that many sub to keep a large MMO floating, we need more features.

Keep chanting or arguing if sandbox is all you care for irrespective of game quality or content.  Petition to the whitehouse, post here or pull up a banner outside your house.  That won't solve the problem.  Do come up with a game (design and total package) which fits your defintion of a sandbox and packed with enough (does not need to be many) features that captures the hearts of enough PAYING customers.  That is a start.  Till then, all talks no muscle.

In the meantime, if you really want Sandbox, sub to any major game with a big world, and ignore all the content.  Do what you want, within the limits of the game.  No game is totally without limits.  Can you walk on the planet in Eve?  No.  Can you flying a flying mount in UO?  No.  All games are built with limits.  Even a supposing Sandbox.

Oh well another of those "sandbox is best" rant thread.  Don't you feel old now repeating that?  To the OP, your argument falls apart easily.

If you want only sandbox, and you mean to play a sandbox without trying to dictate how others play, any game is a sandbox.  Just ignore all the quests, all the world events, and play whatever you want: wander, explore, dance, dive down a cliff, get drown.  Who stops you from doing what you want, as long as you do not interfere with other players.  Of course, that means play PVE sandbox, not trying to grief or ambush the unwary PVEer.

Then you mention free loot.  Now that is exactly what you mean, not sandbox.  You want to be able to attack anyone you like, you like the idea of full loot.  That means dictating how others play, as they have to open themselves to your uninvited aggression.  What has that to do with sandbox?  If all you want is the ability to fight with humans (more varied fighting style), why do you need full loot?  So that you can scam, ambush, grief and humiliate those with slower eye-hand coordination, or slower internet access?  Oh great, so much for your glory.

You also talk about levels.  Is that odd?  A true PVPer would not like levels, he may work on selection of skills, but not level, not gear.  How inconsistent do you sound.

I may be jumping to conclusion, but I feel you are hypocratic, lying.  You are trying to preach free loot PVP, and your title seems to be talking about sandbox.  Either you confuse the 2 concepts yourself, or you are trying to confuse the readers.

Bad post.

Originally posted by talismen351

Originally posted by Deathstrike2

Why should anyone be allowed to play for *free* past level 13?  For that matter, why should anyone be allowed to play for *free* anyway? 

If you want to play the game, pay for it.  Otherwise, take your cheap ass on down the road.  That's how I feel about it anyway.

 

Totally agree. I don't recall Ultima Online, or EQ or some of the older games having free play. You sometimes got your first 30 days free AFTER you bought the game. Why does everyone feel they are so deserving of getting to see all the game for free...what motivation is there then for you to buy it? Do you only goto see movies after you've seen the entire thing free?  Do you go out for a nite of entertainment only if you get to try everything free first?

I tend to be very wary of games offering free trials.  I would not want to start playing with these freeriders around, ruining the day.

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Originally posted by Ascension08

Originally posted by maddbomber83

I hope you are not mistaken, because then we both will be having a lot of fun!

I have not been following this game.  But I have to suggest you take a more realistic approach to your expectations.  You have not seen much of the game, and there is the big element of community.  If the people you play with suck, so will the game (multi player types).

I know I usually enjoy the first moments in a lot of games I play.  Hopefully this games proves to have enough of that enjoyment to keep people playing beyond the start.

Glad you are enjoying yourself.

/cheers

Yeah, that's why I highlighted the part where he said he's only seen a little bit with red on my post. And community's important; for instance, I saw a vid (posted in another thread here I believe), where the author used such words as "Lolwtf QQ" because he was playing as a Ranger. You kno where you find those kinds of people? WoW. If those people become the majority, say goodbye to maturity.

Sadly a lot of the people talking in the pvp beta global chat reminded me of exactly the kind of people that everyone complains about in WoW. Don't get me wrong there were some intelligent mature people also but alot more of the other kind than I would have imagined.

Once the game start charging, most of these will go.  Hopefully what is left are the better community, if they are not already driven off.  Personally I would rather play a game with a modest community that is mature and loving, like the LOTRo community, than participate in a game in which everyone is for himself.

Originally posted by Fion

AoC is the next great 'alternative to the generic cloned crap' MMOG out there. Like SWG was, AO was, and Eve is.

I want a couple great orc vs dwarf games, a battletech/mech game, a flight sim game, a realistic historical based war game, a fps, some combos and more.  Original ideas, games with variety.

Originally posted by Kien

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Edit: it's hard to discuss the beta without flaming.

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Originally posted by heerobya

I love it...

Checked out the Mortal Online site....

They said:

"You decide your own style of playing and whether to focus on PvP or PvE, both sharing the same game world. "

And it made me laugh.

People really don't get it do they. They really don't.

In full open PvP (FFA) you don't get to choose your own style. If I choose PvE someone else can choose PvP and FORCE me into PvP with them.

It's not a choice. It's a suggestion.

I've seen this exact line on so many game websites and so many blogs and so many posts etc. etc. and it's all a lie.

As Avery put it so well, its more realistic to look at games currently available and choose.  I am not going to forego gaming now and wait b/c some designers tell us about their ultimate dreams.  I do not know if I will live long enough to see the next generation games.  There is no harm playing the best game today in the market as we hope for the next breakthru.  After all I am not going to marry AoC or anything, I will ditch it the day I find the next game vastly superior.

Originally posted by Mordria

What's the fascination with WAR anyway?  Another game with goblins, elves, and orcs.  Yeah, we needed another one of those. 

I sure want a game with mechs or another SWG.  But do I get to find a decent one out there in the market?  NO.

So the fascination with WAR.  There is a good chance we have a DAoC version 2 coming with WAR, and DAoC style alone is worth trying.

If you are throwing away a good game because it features elves and dwarves, you are throwing out the baby with the bathe water.  Until you show me serious alternatives, I see no reason with your despair.

Originally posted by weg886

 

Originally posted by Exar_Kun

One word...AMAZING!!!!

This game really has it all together.  It has all the elements you want in an MMORPG.

1) Spectacular Graphics

2) Excellent Content

3) NEW, FUN, and INTERESTING UI

4) Great backstory that allows RP guys to really get into game.

5) When the RANGER profession is taken down a notch, PVP will be FANTASTIC!

6) So much to do and see and so little time to get it all in

7)  Character Customization ranks up there with CoH

8) Game play is FAST, FURIOUS, and down right FUN!!!

9) This is a game that if managed the right way will provide Millions of players years of fun.

10) This is a game that is easy to get into but very difficult to master.

The funny thing is I have only seen a very small part of the game. I could go on and on! The bottom line is, this could be the best MMORPG ever made. I can't wait to get into this badboy on May 17th!!!

 

 

So you say best ?   Well does all the armor wear out?

Is everything in the game made by us?

Is it full loot?

Death penalty , is it harsh?

Can a lvl 3 beat a lvl 15 by skilled play?

Can you delvl?

Does it have a anti hack system?

Is it all player ran?

 

If you answer " No" to any of the above then its no better then whats out now!

 

And that is your opinion.  If a game gives yes to a few of your ideas listed above, I will not bother look at it any more.  So my view vs yours.

Originally posted by justmyself

Originally posted by grindery

I dont know if Lotro was your first mmo or not but many mmo's out right now have expansions where you have to buy them for the premium content. Monthly updates usually pale in comparison content wise when it comes to paid expansions. Its the way business works and at the same time its a great way to get new and old players to come back and try out the game because of the new advertising. On top of that its a great way to ensure that the current existing player-base stays interested in the game.

I've played a lot of mmorpgs. I've beta-tested many.
I know that NOW many mmorpgs have many paid expansions, but I still think that one year is too soon.

So the question goes back to you.  Do you feel like taking a look inside the Turbine version of Mines of Moria.  I do, and I am willing to pay for all 3 copies of LOTRo in my family.  That way we can go into Moria together.

Originally posted by Cryptor

I play LotRO now, just started few weeks back.  It's a great game imho.

I would like to see that whatever mmo I am playing at the moment gets one paid expansion per year.

This is a great news for all lotro players ;)  Not that the game is not already jam packed with content.

imho every mmo should get a full featured paid expansion after the first year, inluding lotro.  No I don;t think it's too early at all.

 

LOTRo keeps adding free content.  They have already provided a few new zones, and some hi end dungeons.  They have announced a few more coming down the road, including the Mines of Moria, something I am very excited about.  And so far, these new contents are free.

Originally posted by glord

When I finally find an MMO and stick with it, I want to actually STICK with it.  The only thing is, will other people do the same? I don't want to spend 7 years developing a character and the character's personality, just to find that the community gets bored of the game and leaves. Is an MMORPG that will last a lifetime possible?

Edit: I'm also hoping that tabletop RPing doesn't die out.

Back to the issue of a game.  Games are for fun during on and off odd hours.  Its not all of my life.  Game time spent are happy moments, moments of fun.  I do not need to keep playing it forever.  The moment I found something better to do I log off.  The moment I find a better game I push the cancel subscription button.  What will happen to my level 50 champion in LOTRo or my level 70 fury (unsubscribed) in EQ2?  Why bother?  If i want to play I go back to play, if I do not I move on.  I can still play if the community feels bored, so long as I am not bored.  Even if every friend of mine are busy in LOTRo, I decided to leave for personal reasons.

So relax my friend, just play the game if you do enjoy it, or find a new one if you do not.  Don't worry about your alt 7 years down the road, spend more time worrying about your friends and families 7 years down the road.

Understood that the beta client may not yet be fully optimised blah blah blah,

Still I want to know the OP's situation.  What is the config of the machine of yours that runs AoC smoothly.  And how smoothly.  Which display card, how much RAM, XP or Vista ...

Can you elaborate a bit please.  i am building my new rig for AoC, I am figuring out what CPU and what display card.  I am settling for XP and so its 2G or 4G (which only means 3G under XP).

Originally posted by raysiebeef

explain why then??  is it because i dont like the game and gave my opinion?

Well first I do not like the harsh reply given to you by some gamers here.

On the other hand, you have given an opinion, but not a reasoned one.  Yes I know you say you left the closed beta and reinstalled WoW.  BUT I do not know why.

1. Maybe AoC is a great game but you PC is so old that it can only play WoW.

2. Maybe AoC is a different kind of game and you are more used to WoW style.

3. Maybe AoC is in beta with bugs and you do not know that you are there to debug, so you chickened out and go back to WoW.

4. Maybe AoC is in beta and you want to raid for purples.  So you go back to WoW.

5. Maybe AoC requires some thinking and you are too tired after work, so you go back to WoW

6. Maybe ...

There are million maybes that are consistent with your stated fact, that you tried AoC beta and go back to WoW.  How are we supposed to judge your statement.  Does it mean AoC is good or bad.

You are wrong by saying "enough said".  No you have not explained enough, you have not explained anything.  You did not even tell us whether you like AoC beta or not in your first opinion.  In your quote above, you said you do not like the game without mentioning that it is in beta, so I wonder, do you have issues with the beta or the game?

Oh well I am trying to make too much sense out of your few words, as if I am trying to put words into your mouth.  I really do not know what you are trying to tell us, if any.

Originally posted by Arcken

 

Originally posted by Orthedos

 

Originally posted by Arcken

What is with the messed up attitude that people have about free trials? Has our universe turned upside down? Do the words "The customer is always right." mean nothing?

We are the customers, we are responsible for their paychecks. They want money to send the kids to college, then they better damn well cater to their customers wants and needs. What makes MMOs special to the point that they can act like its our "priveledge" to play their game. Thats blatent and utter bullshit. You want want us to buy your game, give us the respect we deserve as customers.

I dont buy a console game anymore without playing the downloadable demo on my 360. Imagine that, companies giving you a free sample of their product before you buy it. Its what the customer wants, and since the customer is putting food on their tables, we should demand some rightfully deserved respect.

No company should be able to survive in these our modern times if they cant please their customer base. Everyone who wants new customers does something to incite interest. Free trials of sausage at the grocery store, a free month of Vonage, coupons for the latest sandwich at burger king, its what businesses to do promote a product.

Again, why would tried and true business practices not apply to MMOs?

First consumers is NEVER always right.  If you do not want to buy, move on.  If the business is going strong, they might not even have enough to serve everyone.  Try oil, if Bush has an attitude to Saudi?  Move on, there are long lines waiting to buy.

 

A consumer can insist on a free trial prior to buying.  A supplier can insist on no free trial.  Its called free and voluntary trade.  Fine, no deal.  Lets see who gives up first?  AND by the way, you are not the big god of mercy when you spend $50 for a game.  You are voluntarily entering a contract, soliciting a services with terms and prices agreed upon by both.  Next time you go visit a doctor, show him your kind of attitude:

"Damn you stupid doctor, do you know my consultation fees pays for your kids and housing mortgage?  So you better make me happy or I leave you starving on the streets"

Talking about messed up attitude.

While I feel like you are in error trying to use a necessary service such as a doctor, and comparing to choosing entertainment, I will make a counter point.

 

When my wife and I went about trying to decide what pediatrician we wanted to send our kids to, we made several appointments with doctors to meet them before hand, to decide how we liked them.

After talking to about 5 doctors we settled on the one we liked the best. And that my friend is the right of every consumer out there. Its up to the doctor how he runs his business, agreed, however a personable doctor who is good at his job, will most likely have more patients than those less so. Thats my point, do what it takes to be better, and your business will be better. Tell people, "Like it or leave" and you are bound to have people leaving by the droves

 

Customers have the right to choose.  My previous storyline assumes only 1 supplier, so the customer choice is withholding or buying.  You expanded the story to multiple suppliers.  That adds competition to the supply side, if we also introduce multiple consumers we add in full fledge competition.

Assume a product with limited supply.  Each customers are trying to bid for the quantity he wanted.  He can shop among different suppliers, so will the next customer.  Each of the customer will bid against each other.  If you think that the suppliers are unfair you can wait till they offer better terms (say free trial here).  Unfortunately other customers are also competing, and if enough of them are willing to shore up the cash, the suppliers will serve them first and you will have to wait and hope that eventually there is leftover in supply and the supplier will look at you and think about your wishes: free trial.  If he think he has enough business, he will leave you aside for now.  That was my scenario about, you can wait, or you pay now.

Your story about doctors hinges upon the fact that doctors generally have excess capacity, meaning few of them are fully booked.  So you have the option of comparing and deciding on whom to patronise.  Still you have to pay the fees they wanted.  You cannot demand something they do not voluntarily give, as in the free trial you demand.  Each doctor offers his terms (fees), you pay for a first visit and then decide on a final purchase.  As in games, you buy the box, and if you like it subscribe.  Doctors will generally not alter the terms of their services just b/c you have second opinion.  They set a fees that applies to all customers.  Game producer set the terms applicable to all gamers.

Gamers are slightly different, in that the marginal DIRECT cost of adding more customers are trivial (just one more copy of server).  Still the true cost of adding less "willing" customers are bigger than that.  If they have to offer free trial to you, they will have to offer free trial to everyone.  How will the other clients think?  Will they start suspecting quality issues (only bad games offer free trials right from start)?  Will they worry about influx of "cheap" freeriders ruining the community?  Will they all stop pre-orders and wait for a free trial (most likely)?

Judging from the way AoC is coming, it is reasonable to expect that the game will launch aok (its my guess, you can have your own, and only time will tell who is right).  If Funcom expects a reasonable good sale at start (they know how many pre-orders already paid up), they might not want to risk free trials and adopt a wait and see, till the first free month expires.  If I were Funcom, I will never imagine the need to offer free trial during the first few months.  Or, well I should say, I hope it never comes to that.

Originally posted by slask777

This shouldn't even be a discussion. The customer is always right is based on the fact that if he/she isnt pleased he/she will take their money elsewhere. Businesses need customers to survive, not the other way around, and that is especially true for the entertainment business. This should be common knowledge, but it seems it aint. Got a few choice words for those kinda people, but I will probably be banned if I voice em here

Having to provide a free trial entails cost, those customers on the fence and thinking about buying will definitely not buy and try first.  That entails cost.  The business has to estimate the potential revenue available from the free trial gamers.  If they do not believe in these free-riders, then they should not offer the trial.

As a business, you and your kind of attitude will make you unwelcome in my client list.  You can take your money elsewhere, and I can save a lot of trouble trying to keep you in my business coverage.  Business need clients to survive, true, but not every client.  If I have enough nice reasonable clients to build up a warm mature gamer community, I would like to weed out the free riders to keep the game community nice and comfit.

You are also wrong about "not the other way round".  If you are famous as an obnoxious unhygenic and unclean stinky drunkard, I am pretty sure all the major restaurants will keep you out.  You will need to improve your looks and style or simply have to eat take-aways.

Your common knowledge is totally wrong.  There are many updated sources on marketing, go take a look, you will find that the common wisdom is: keeping EVERY OBNOXIOUS UNREASONABLE and UNPROFITABLE clients happy is not the way to go.

Why the endless hate for SoE?  I miss my SWG, maybe forever, as I do not expect to live long enough to see another game so original.  So what?  I hate SoE and automatically skip all games remotely associated with SoE?  Who am I kidding?  I am exacting a punishment on SoE or on myself?

I would rather judge each game individually and look for titles I think I will like.  I will not buy a game b/c its made by Bliz, nor will I skip a game b/c its made by SoE.

Originally posted by Lydon

 

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Originally posted by Orthedos
Oh come on, since when consumers own suppliers, since when consumers dictate what terms the suppliers must offer.

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Oh goodness...since like forever. It's called supply and demand. The supplier needs to do whatever they can to increase the demand for their product. That means them asking "how high?" when we tell them to jump.

The elementary theory of trade does not talk in those terms.  The supplier only set the product and price, and leave it to the consumer to pick.  The consumer will be faced with options, price and product (say quality or kind).  Millions of consumers competing for services, millions of suppliers competing against each other to sell their product.