You should probably READ the TOR website instead of HEARING complete nonsense from people who also didn't read it.

You forgot a 5th option: No you're stupid and have no idea how the business works.

400k subs is a, brace yourselves.. SUCCESSFUL MMO. 

10m is not the mark of a successful game, it is the mark of the ONLY game that can have that much of the market share.

I don't play WAR anymore and I don't think it's even a good game, but some people do and those people can and will keep playing and mythic can and will keep making "improvements."

 Husband and wife team, we are relatively new to Darkfall, been playing about a week and currently in an Ice Island clan.  We're not happy with the way the clan we're in is doing business right now, promoting brand new members who basically buy rank.  The alliance is fairly hostile toward each other as well, not too many friendly people, very much every clan for himself.

So, what we're looking for:

Mature, smaller clan that already has a hamlet but is looking to expand to a city in time.  In a large alliance that actually treats its allies like friends instead of enemies, working toward a larger overall goal.

If your clan does not fit that description, don't talk to me.  If you have trouble typing out full words, don't bother.  If you want two helpful members who commit a lot to their clan, drop me a line here or in pm.  Also pirates are a plus.

 Send me a private message, I would like to get some feedback from people who did play and who have decided to cancel, to help make my decision.  

 Here's why this will fail:  We won't buy into it.  Gamers will go so far as to buy a wired mouse over a wireless mouse because of the perceived delay in reaction time.  Any perceived delay and gamers are going to avoid it like the plague.

Yes, this idea will probably take hold in the casual games market, but the real games will be played as they are now, for a long time coming.

I do believe the OP is more concerned with the fact that there is not really any pve content to keep him interested when the combat is making him question whether it is worth it.

If the rest of the game is worth playing in, then the constant threat from attack wouldn't be much of a bother to him.  To me, I would hope that there was some decent PvE content and a system of consequence beyond player retribution.  If neither exists, why shouldn't I just play Quake Live to get my ffa fix?  To be perfectly honest, I don't need an MMO to get my pvp fix.. I find cod4, ut3, and quake live just as fulfilling to my baser needs.  I -like- to do it in an MMO, given a rich fulfilling world and convincing character motivations for attacking others.

My principle interest in Darkfall is for inter-guild politics and fighting over territory.  Hopefully that will grow into something with depth and meaning and not be taken over by flaming and childish insults.  And as the game progresses, perhaps the devs will see fit to increase the overall world's liveliness.

Originally posted by Hhussk

Originally posted by Dkevlar

Sandbox based mmorpgs (with the current technology) only thrive in nich audiences. that is a proven fact. Darkfall is not the first sandbox nor it will be the last but it will never reach a magnitude level . thats why big name companies avoid the sandbox setting- it will not make huge revenues and they know that, and why indy companies go for a open small segment on the market.

Sandbox based mmorpgs with full loot even have more problems. large base of humanity lives according to the ferengy rules of aquisition (try to cut losees as much as possible),

 

Dkevlar, would you explain to me why sandbox MMOs only thrive in rich audiences? I'm interested in hearing your arguments for this statement.

niche, not rich.

Originally posted by Abrahmm

Developers simply need to develop a game that is worthy of a large playerbase. It has nothing to do with the playerbase being patient as the company shouldn't release a buggy mess.

Unfortunately no game is trying to be unique, they are all trying to be like WoW. You can't out WoW WoW itself.

QFT,

However... an MMO used to be considered successful at breaking 100k subs.  It was a significant milestone, 150k subs was a big deal.   Now we have games we consider failures that have 400k subs and we, as gamers, and the media covering these games, are tainted by WoW's unprecedented success.  You do not have to be the top game to have a successful MMO, but you DO have to be prepared NOT to be the top game and plan accordingly so that the inevitable 50% loss in initial subs can be handled with minimal effect.

Open pvp without a hard coded system of consequences is always a setup for failure.  I am not saying that it's necessarily right or wrong, I'm saying it leads to failure.  Players should bear the burden for this, but you can't trust players to set anything solid up.  Therefore a developer bears the responsibility for ensuring (not fair, but) balanced play.  There has to be a means for at the very least, word getting out to proper authorities that there are ravenous killers on the loose and possible consequences to their continued actions.  Without a reason not to do something, players will do it if it can benefit them.

I am not saying I agree, I am just stating what I've seen since the beginning of MMO's.  All an open pvp world does is encourage random player killing and discourage anything but the most persistent casuals and the hardcore to play your game, a very small % compared to who might play if there was some sort of balance.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/09/18/world_of_warcraft_upkeep_200m/

Blizzard makes roughly 172,500,000 per month on subscriptions alone.  Do not count transfers, name changes, sex changes or game boxes.  Also take into account that that number is probably a bit lower every month.  However, it has only cost them slightly more than that for all of WoW's costs since its release.

No I do not think that charging more or going to item malls is really the right way to go.  In fact, Blizzard is the only one who would benefit from -reducing- their monthly fee.

Suddenly every MMO is charging 5 bucks more than WoW, they would be forced to take action, which would likely be reducing their monthly fees.  They don't have 11.5 million subscribers to play with, and many would have to shut down.  Then WoW gets more subs.

I don't care what the monthly fee is, personally.  I will pay what I think a game is worth to me.  Sometimes I pay for 5 or 6 accounts at once, but at the minimum I always pay for 2 because I am married. 

But the point is.. the subscription model for big release games isn't going anywhere.

added new videos to original post

Just finished up a video for the guild, have a look, link is in the OP or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPYqU4OHDZ8

http://www.thesg2.com/TyrannyVideo1.wmv

both links get you the video, one is youtube and the other is the hi res

Still looking for active players to keep up the fight against order.  We have already been part of t4 keep raids and taken one for a guild in our alliance.  Ours is next.

Tyrants rule in blood

We're moving up the ranks!  A simple restructuring and new inactives policy means all of our players are active and contributing to the guild.

We have just formed an alliance with the guild Hostile which means MORE pvp groups including RvR keep raids.

Updated the thread, we've now gone to a short application process and added a few requirements for members.  We're running full group scenarios every day and getting ready to hit tier 4 with our core group.

I have updated our post with additional information and requirements

We have a few more openings for new members.  We are currently a top 10 guild on Vortex and we intend to stay that way.  We are GR 10 and have around 70 members.  If you are interested in joining talk to any Tyranny member or Vastian to join.

We're proving ourselves as one of the top guilds on Vortex and we plan to stay that way, so if you've got what it takes, find a Tyranny member and join!

Talk to Vastian in game if you want an invite. You can also search for tyranny members by pressing 'o' by default.