Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by Tamanous

I'm not entirely sure what you want from this post.

You want me to hold your hand on the way out or something?

Not sure how you derived that from his post. He was posting that he submitted all that and the system kicked his cancellation out due to load on the system.

At least he was able to reproduce the written text here.

Yeas, it is 2012.

Still posting has not gotten better, threads like this are just a bland copypasta that have been done over and over.

It's just plain bullshit and waste of time. Look at any game, you will see topics like this when they are relase. Just some meager bad poster that want some kind of 15 minutes of forum fame.

It's not like you are obligated to play a game you dislike.  (Yeah, you feel that you are obligated to post about it.)

It's 2012, internet is not something new anymore. Forums is not the next hot thing anymore.

Just go any other games forum, you will see the same poster type posting about the same thing the only difference in the thread is the game.

This IS really uneliable.

It is 2012 start to think for yourself.

Originally posted by Starpower

 

Oh and don't bring up economics when you clearly failed in marketing. Tell you what. Why don't you go to http://www.childsplaycharity.org/ and donate directly to them instead with the 10 dollars. That way you are actually chaitable without getting anything in return. Or you can blindly support Trion to get that cool mount and give a dollar. The choice is yours

 

There is three choices.

1. You donate directly, $10 (any amount really) to childsplay.

2. You bougth this upgrade and indirectly donate $1 to childsplay.

3. Or donate nothing.

Option three is better than the second option, right?

Originally posted by Unreal024

Originally posted by Joarnaj

It's $10 and has been $10, meaning that they are actually giving 10% of their gross earnings away this holiday season. Not sure why people would actually complain about that. I'm also forced to wonder when the last time was that the tomato throwers in the room gave 10% of their income to anything.

Nobody is complaining that they are giving money to charity. It's just that, as a multi-million dollar company, it seems that they could have given more than just $1 for every $10. Especially if they are going to only run the event for three days. Why not bite the bullet for charity? Match the price and give up all of your digital upgrade earnings for three days to charity.

 

As it is now some of the more cynical people, like myself, see this as a way to earn some profit off of the good will of others.

It's good to be cynical.

But be it all the way. It don't matter if a company mentions does a charity 'deal' for a specific product (like this upgrade) or if it's for all products in their catalog.

They do it because they want you to buy their product instead of the other company. They do it because of greed.

But in the end both sides profit from it, the charity organisation and the company making the promotion. That can't just simply be forgotten, thinking "all in" in this business don't do anyone any good. That will just end up with more and more people thinking that the little that I can contribute with doesn't matter and they fail to see the big picture.

Be cynical about this if you wish. But not doing this would not be better.

Originally posted by legend55

yeah I agree totally with the 2 reactions before me, But I really truelly think the future is free to play. Think of games like LOL or Fiesta online of some sort, only a small fraction is p2p, and so many players play the game. They make without any doubt serious money, no one can deny that. but anywaaay, going way of topic haha:D Just dreaming about a totally free everquest world. :D

Fiesta is a better game than EQ2?

Originally posted by Kenze

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Loke666

What?

That they wont allow you to create new characters of the race or class unless you buy them is one thing, but not allowing you to play one you already have is the cheapest thing I heard in my life.

Thanks, I was just considering logging on myself, I wont now.

You do realize this is no different then, say, having a level 30 character in LOTRO, coming back to him with the f2p, and not being able to quest anywhere.  LOTRO locks content, EQ2 locks classes/races.  If you make a new character (or unlock the particular class you want) you have access to all the content.

The issue people have is they fail to look at the big picture, only what effects them.  F2p isnt meant to be the prime way to play, its meant as an unlimited trial with the hopes people sub.  However for the people that do want to play for free, there is an insane amount of content they dont have to pay a cent for.  Just have to go with one of the 8 classes.

Its amazing how closed minded people are though.  Everything is a big scam and SoE sucks, because everyone either wants everything catered to THEM, or doesnt take the time to actually look at the full picture.  In the end you may still prefer the pay for content method, but if you think SoE's system is bad or greedy or anything like that then you have major lack of analytical skills, or blindly hate SoE.  Sadly, 95% of the users on this site seem to fall into one of those two groups.

No, the LOTRO guy can log in with his character, I on the other hand needs to pay 15 bucks to unlock my race and class.

I already bought all expansions and played for 5 years, and they want me to pay for the same thing twice. You don't even want to count on how much money I put into the game .

They could at least let me keep my main character without paying for it.

Changing the payment model to get new players into the game is no issue, but screwing over their veterans is not a good idea. Anyone who already have bought the entire game should at least be able to unlock a few things for free, we are the reason that the game even exists anymore and the most likely type to actually buy new stuff as we play.

 

They are NOT asking yo to pay for the game including expansion twice, they are asking for a subscription if you don't want the f2p limitations... And given that unlocking those two things needed is the same cost as one month subscription I can hardly see your point.

 

1 month = $15

2 unlocks = $15

What is the real problem, before this you had to chip out $15 every month to 'unlock' the game, now you need to pay equal amount of money as you did for 1 month and then anjoy the game for free?

sorry but those 15$ are not equal.

the 2 unlocks leaves you with plat cap,quest cap, bag cap, spell cap, weapon/armor restrictions, chat restrictions etc.

the 15$ sub removes all that.

sure you can "play the game for free"  if you dont mind being extremely gimped. They want you to think your getting a good deal but youre not.

Huh?

1. $15 equals $15 nothing more, nothing less. No matter how one tries to spin it.

2. You are right F2P gives you restrictions. Surprisingly.

3. Noone have to pay the game twice to continue playing, not even if he wants to enjoy the game for free with his so called veteran characters.

(4. Did this ever really have anything to do with logging in to say hi to his old mates?)

You are comparing the fully unrestricted game, with the subscription, with the F2P restriction. I'm not... In that case why not skip all this with his gripe about some characters/races not being accessable. why not be honest and whine "I don't get the same sort of access to game if I don't subscribe to it".

But that whinage is not subtle enough.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by teakbois

Originally posted by Loke666

What?

That they wont allow you to create new characters of the race or class unless you buy them is one thing, but not allowing you to play one you already have is the cheapest thing I heard in my life.

Thanks, I was just considering logging on myself, I wont now.

You do realize this is no different then, say, having a level 30 character in LOTRO, coming back to him with the f2p, and not being able to quest anywhere.  LOTRO locks content, EQ2 locks classes/races.  If you make a new character (or unlock the particular class you want) you have access to all the content.

The issue people have is they fail to look at the big picture, only what effects them.  F2p isnt meant to be the prime way to play, its meant as an unlimited trial with the hopes people sub.  However for the people that do want to play for free, there is an insane amount of content they dont have to pay a cent for.  Just have to go with one of the 8 classes.

Its amazing how closed minded people are though.  Everything is a big scam and SoE sucks, because everyone either wants everything catered to THEM, or doesnt take the time to actually look at the full picture.  In the end you may still prefer the pay for content method, but if you think SoE's system is bad or greedy or anything like that then you have major lack of analytical skills, or blindly hate SoE.  Sadly, 95% of the users on this site seem to fall into one of those two groups.

No, the LOTRO guy can log in with his character, I on the other hand needs to pay 15 bucks to unlock my race and class.

I already bought all expansions and played for 5 years, and they want me to pay for the same thing twice. You don't even want to count on how much money I put into the game .

They could at least let me keep my main character without paying for it.

Changing the payment model to get new players into the game is no issue, but screwing over their veterans is not a good idea. Anyone who already have bought the entire game should at least be able to unlock a few things for free, we are the reason that the game even exists anymore and the most likely type to actually buy new stuff as we play.

They are NOT asking yo to pay for the game including expansion twice, they are asking for a subscription if you don't want the f2p limitations... And given that unlocking those two things needed is the same cost as one month subscription I can hardly see your point.

1 month = $15

2 unlocks = $15

What is the real problem, before this you had to chip out $15 every month to 'unlock' the game, now you need to pay equal amount of money as you did for 1 month and then anjoy the game for free?

Perhaps I remember wrong.

But there is an gold limit, something like max 1 plat fro the free to play players.

If I would cancel my subscription and then log in, will I have lost the amount of goold above 1 platinum?

---

Originally posted by Azaria

You obviously are/were not on the official forums site. It's not exactly friendly to indipendent thinking, actually quite hostile to differning opinions, and thats just the moderators. The forum goers on that site, whewwwwwwwwwwwwww.

---

That is true, I'm not reading the official forums nor post there.
And I assume you are right.

But still...

---

Originally posted by sanosukex

---

Originally posted by Orphes

 Why not?
I'm not so shure what you are trying to say, if you underlying statement is that the game is worse or alot worse, perhaps even horrible. Why have so few of those 4203 voted below 7?
Why would there be any reason to believe that almost none of those "millions said to play" that dislike the game is not visition the forum nor voting in that poll?

---

like said in a post above me polls on official forums are a lot of times jaded by blind follows that will give high marks to a game no matter how bad it is(not saying the game is terrible just making an example)

---

...why should not those people vote?

Even if there are jaded follower, people that praise this game above all and will fight to their death against anyone mentioning anything negative about the game, no matter how little the thing would be.

Those that dont have this game as their next religion still have same access to the voting. Still you see so few of those.

If your answer would to explain a question about (all of the eventual) positive threads/post I could see it as an answer, but for this as it is a vote it really is not an answer to the question asked.
 

Originally posted by sanosukex

Originally posted by maskedweasel

Thats what beta forums are for,  fixes and suggestions,  but if you were in the closed beta you would also take note of the overwhelming positive opinion given when BioWare asked for focus testing.   Overall negative opinions were very few and far between.

 

Seeing as I'm still in beta,  the forums are still pretty light on "critical" posts in comparison to positive ones.   

Directly from the BETA forums.. RIGHT... NOW.. :)

 

View Poll Results: How well do you like SWTOR? Rate from 1-10
1 (horrible)		29	0.69%
2		12	0.29%
3		29	0.69%
4		44	1.05%
5 (average)		133	3.16%
6		122	2.90%
7		338	8.04%
8		1,036	24.65%
9		941	22.39%
10 (excelent)		1,519	36.14%
Voters: 4203. You have already voted on this poll

 

4203 people out of the millions said to play is hardly an indication of how the masses will view this game come release and months after. We shall see though

Why not?

I'm not so shure what you are trying to say, if you underlying statement is that the game is worse or alot worse, perhaps even horrible. Why have so few of those 4203 voted below 7?

Why would there be any reason to believe that almost none of those "millions said to play" that dislike the game is not visition the forum nor voting in that poll?

Originally posted by Nadia

info is out

 

AOD will NOT include all past expansions

http://everquest2.com/news/read/current/5026

EverQuest II - Age of Discovery is now available for pre-order! This exciting new expansion to the world of Norrath will be released winter 2011.

That is a sad thing. A great thing with EQ2 is that you have got all earlier expansions when you bougth the latest expansion.

But hopefully the will do something similar as they have today. The latest expansion (Destiny of Velious) at normal retail price although it includes all expansions there is an option for something called starter pack that includes all expansions up to Rise of Kunark. And I hope they will include DoV with the starter pack when AoD is released.

I guess it's due to they have a free version where you have access to all expansion up to Rise of Kunark.

How old is your account?

Last year, or perhaps two years ago, SOE added all expansions and activated all accounts as retail. I believe you got 30-60 days to play, it was to celebrate some festival ingame. (Don't confuse it with this summers free playtime due to the hacking done to Sony.)

Trial accounts also got activated with all the expansions.

If you account got those I'm not so shure that buying later expansions will grant you the 30 days that ocmes with the retail game as your account is already 'activated as retail'.

Might want to check that and perhaps ask SOE support first.

(I can't say how other games handle it, but I believe that an existing account that have the games retail box added won't get any subscription time when there is an expansion added.)

Originally posted by erictlewis

Well now we know what happened to eq2,  they took our dev team and actually worked on vanguard and that is why were getting an xpac in eq2 with no content.

Happy for the vanguard players for 2 years they been asking for something and there it is.

 

It's a fair tradeoff... I mean c'mon, this should be a lunchbreak patch for the EQ2 team.

So I guess they got a long semester to rest and do a bit work on VG ;)

I am also pretty shure that the 'no content' you are talking about for EQ2 is more than what VG received this patch.

For me I'm a bit sad I didn't picked station acess this time instead of just subbing to EQ2.

Originally posted by Razeron

EQ2's only problem is the piece of shit parent company.

 

Not the developers, art team or even CS.

 

 

EQ2's biggest problem was all those people that bougth and played World of Warcraft instead of EQ2. ;)

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Hazelle

 

Are you joking?

It's pretty clear to me that he's talking about the game building slowly over the years from it's small beginning to the time of that interview.  I don't see how you could be so confused about that...  It's in plain english.

Reading comperehension?

Quoting out of context?

Indeed!

 

Sorry but it is your interpretation, or lack thereoff, adding things that he actually is not saying...

 

• He is answering that they have a loyal subscriber base, direct example 20% are subscribers from the start of EVE Online.
• He also describes, his reasoning, the reasons behind why EVE online have loyal subscribers".
• He says that, at least at the beginning of the game, the game spread more from (again) word of mouth compared to advertising. Note that he is not even saying anything about it only being subscribers. What about the reputation, the acknowledgement of the the game EVE Online.

He says nothing about how much they advertised. He does not mention the current state (in 2009) "word of mouth" vs adverts. You are adding those thing yourself. The whole quote is in past tence, you believe it is reflecting the current situation. And still even that is 2009, two years back.

If you believe you are right, you should find a better quote or a better interview.

 

"Asked how EVE's subscriber numbers were bearing up in the wake of Aion's release, Olafsson said it was too early to say, but noted that EVE had survived and continued to grow through many rival MMO launches in its time, including some CCP considered "massive threats". "But up to now we've withstood them all, and out-survived several."

Why? "We're better. But in fact I attribute it to our slow growth at the beginning, which has made the community and the player-base more resilient. We didn't spike a million at launch, we grew incredibly slowly, but the connections and the relationships that formed as the game spread virally between people, more through word of mouth than advertising, I think made these bonds much more resilient. As an example, 20 per cent of the people who signed up in the first month in 2003 are still playing the game."

Up to now encompasses the beginning of the game until the interview in 2009.

The paragraph that followed has him musing the reason why EvE online has survived up to now.

It was October 2009, which was two months before Dominion, which was the last real space pew pew expansion, which was around the time of the last big subscriber leap...  And since then there's been very little growth in space pew pew and with subscribers...  How odd...

Ofcourse he is... saying that the game has survived up till now as he is refering to that the game is alive and kicking at that time...

The reasons for it, nvm actually. Sorru but I can not help you read so I give up.

Originally posted by Uhwop

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by xpowderx

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by xpowderx

I see the MASS EXODUS is continuing. Many are leaving for that uhh. other game!

Tsk, tsk.. Monocles anyone?

I erased EVE from my hard Drive today. It wont be coming back.

CCP no longer cares about its player base,its true! Especially after the comments CCP made.

 

When you have a game that ignores its player base all for the $$$$. Its time to move on.. As such I did. Along with some friends.. Goon,BCINC, RF, .. yup.. we are all leaving.

 

Thanks CCP!

come on, be honest, you couldnt cope with going back to highsec cause of the cool guys taking over the north...   :)

 

dont use the excuse of ccp for introducing vanity items.

lol, the OP for this thread is a bit old. But most of us"cool" guys left for another game about three weeks ago. Nothing personal. I do see a advantahge  if you are a newer player to EVE. Lets say the past couple years. Plenty of space to move into. Just not as populated.

Wish you the best ! Happy gaming!

 

Well then as I understand it is only you left in Perpeetum as the rest of your cool 'friends' resubbed to defend VFK.

Heh, your cools 'friends' did not leave in first place.

 As far as I'm aware, not a single Goon left. 

Mittens gave us all monicles to stay.  You must be thinking of someone else.

And "defend" implies VFK was ever under any kind of a threat. 

The mass exodus is a lie.

Please direct what you are saying to one actually saying it...

No I am not thinking off anyone else, I never said anyone even left the game, that is the word of the person I quoted.

Originally posted by Hazelle

 

Are you joking?

It's pretty clear to me that he's talking about the game building slowly over the years from it's small beginning to the time of that interview.  I don't see how you could be so confused about that...  It's in plain english.

Reading comperehension?

Quoting out of context?

Indeed!

Sorry but it is your interpretation, or lack thereoff, adding things that he actually is not saying...

• He is answering that they have a loyal subscriber base, direct example 20% are subscribers from the start of EVE Online.
• He also describes, his reasoning, the reasons behind why EVE online have loyal subscribers".
• He says that, at least at the beginning of the game, the game spread more from (again) word of mouth compared to advertising. Note that he is not even saying anything about it only being subscribers. What about the reputation, the acknowledgement of the the game EVE Online.

He says nothing about how much they advertised. He does not mention the current state (in 2009) "word of mouth" vs adverts. You are adding those thing yourself. The whole quote is in past tence, he is talking about EVE online in the beginning. You believe it is reflecting the current situation, and still even that is 2009 two years back.

And yes quoting out of context, still even provided with the full quote you try to excerpt things that can not be read without the rest of the text.

If you believe you are right, you should find a better quote or a better interview.

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Hazelle

And people find out about all of that stuff by the billboard eve has at time square? 

---

 

Oh, so you do not know how web advertising works nor you are familiar with marketing in general.

That's also an answer...

 

How do you think google make so much money? Web advertising is for quite time not something a customer has to bump into, web advertising is seeking the customers to provide them appropriate ad.

 

Yet again, you have nothing to even remotely back up your assumption.

 Yay! more ad hominum "arguements" from you...

CCP itself understands what word of mouth has brought them because they've rolled out the "eve is real" campaign.

The marketing folks at CCP are making "eve is real" their focal point to sell eve online.  CCP is using "eve is real" to get players to do what they do best, bring new players to eve online by discussing their experiences with the game - guess what that's called when you do that?  Go ahead, guess.  Yeah, it's called word of mouth, and if it's been such a small part of eve online why are they basing their current and only ad campaign on it?

If eve players don't bring in new players why does CCP have the buddy program?

Why does CCP have an extended free trial invite scheme for existing players?

Or we can just forget all of that and go by the words of Torfi Frans Olafsson (EVE Online's senior producer) in an interview with eurogamer in 2009 - "We didn't spike a million at launch, we grew incredibly slowly, but the connections and the relationships that formed as the game spread virally between people, more through word of mouth than advertising, I think made these bonds much more resilient."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eve-walking-in-stations-before-dust-514

Is that enough to back up my "assumptions"?

pwned i think

Rift.. had advertising.. on the television, magazines etc.. now that .. is what i call advertising..  giving incentives to persuade players friends to join..  .. isnt that exactly what word of mouth means...

 

Does that work?

 

I can only speak for myself, but the only time ever I have gotten interested in a game is through an add on various webpages I visit, like this one here mmorpg.com.

I never looked up a game through a TV commercial.

One thing does not exclude the other, but here it was 'times square billboard'... I would like to believe that ads on internet is more appropriate level. But that don't exclude 'word of mouth'.

 

Also, the full quote was:

"We're better. But in fact I attribute it to our slow growth at the beginning, which has made the community and the player-base more resilient. We didn't spike a million at launch, we grew incredibly slowly, but the connections and the relationships that formed as the game spread virally between people, more through word of mouth than advertising, I think made these bonds much more resilient. As an example, 20 per cent of the people who signed up in the first month in 2003 are still playing the game."

He is speaking about EVE growth in the beginning and the loyality of those players. It say nothing about word of mouth vs adverts in 2009.

Huh?

Reading comperehension?

Quoting out of context?

He is not talking about present day.

You can not really compare something someone say about something, at that time 6 years ago, to something someone says today.

And even at that time where the quote is from, 2009, there is nothing showing in that full quote that they actually are stating (in 2009) that the word of mouth is worth more than adverts still time being 2009. Even less so for today 2011.

So even if you are right, what you quoted at first does not prove you so.

Originally posted by Phry

Originally posted by Hazelle

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

---

Originally posted by Hazelle

And people find out about all of that stuff by the billboard eve has at time square? 

---

 

Oh, so you do not know how web advertising works nor you are familiar with marketing in general.

That's also an answer...

 

How do you think google make so much money? Web advertising is for quite time not something a customer has to bump into, web advertising is seeking the customers to provide them appropriate ad.

 

Yet again, you have nothing to even remotely back up your assumption.

 Yay! more ad hominum "arguements" from you...

CCP itself understands what word of mouth has brought them because they've rolled out the "eve is real" campaign.

The marketing folks at CCP are making "eve is real" their focal point to sell eve online.  CCP is using "eve is real" to get players to do what they do best, bring new players to eve online by discussing their experiences with the game - guess what that's called when you do that?  Go ahead, guess.  Yeah, it's called word of mouth, and if it's been such a small part of eve online why are they basing their current and only ad campaign on it?

If eve players don't bring in new players why does CCP have the buddy program?

Why does CCP have an extended free trial invite scheme for existing players?

Or we can just forget all of that and go by the words of Torfi Frans Olafsson (EVE Online's senior producer) in an interview with eurogamer in 2009 - "We didn't spike a million at launch, we grew incredibly slowly, but the connections and the relationships that formed as the game spread virally between people, more through word of mouth than advertising, I think made these bonds much more resilient."

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/eve-walking-in-stations-before-dust-514

Is that enough to back up my "assumptions"?

pwned i think

Rift.. had advertising.. on the television, magazines etc.. now that .. is what i call advertising..  giving incentives to persuade players friends to join..  .. isnt that exactly what word of mouth means...

Does that work?

I can only speak for myself, but the only time ever I have gotten interested in a game is through an add on various webpages I visit, like this one here mmorpg.com.

I never looked up a game through a TV commercial.

One thing does not exclude the other, but here it was 'times square billboard'... I would like to believe that ads on internet is more appropriate level. But that don't exclude 'word of mouth'.

Also, the full quote was:

"We're better. But in fact I attribute it to our slow growth at the beginning, which has made the community and the player-base more resilient. We didn't spike a million at launch, we grew incredibly slowly, but the connections and the relationships that formed as the game spread virally between people, more through word of mouth than advertising, I think made these bonds much more resilient. As an example, 20 per cent of the people who signed up in the first month in 2003 are still playing the game."

He is speaking about EVE growth in the beginning and the loyality of those players. It say nothing about word of mouth vs adverts in 2009.

Originally posted by Yamota

Originally posted by Teala

If EVE does start a steady drop in players in the coming months the only people at fault at the ones running the game.   Players have no control over the way a game is managed.  If CCP wishes to drive players away rather than bringing them in that is their choice.  Their money hungry attitude with the BS $99 licensing fee, then the outrageous MT prices for virtual goods, their constant thumbing of the noses at the player base, their lack of follow through with the CQ's and release of Incarna(WIS), their lack of action against botting, their lack of concern for making null and low sec nothing but blob and cap warfare and finding away of fixing it, and their lack of making the new player experience better is their fault and their fault alone. 

EVE could be one of  the best MMORPG's on the Internet, but clearly CCP feels that they no longer need to actually work on EVE, they are just sort of letting it glide as is instead of fixing what the have and making it better.  No if EVE takes a nose dive, it'll be CCP's fault and their fault alone.

Glad someone is finally noticing it. I have had the opinion for years that CCP is just stringing people along. I mean just take this station walking, how dificult can it be to implement a first or third person 3D view? Full fledged FPS games have been released for years doing that and it is taking CCP years and they still havent got it done yet?

I can bet that the only reason is that they simply dont want to spend much money on it, that is why it is being developed so slowly. Eve is just a money cow for CCP and they are squeezing as much as that can from it.

I guess I am the only one that believes WIS/Incarna/whatever adds nothing for the reasons that I play EVE online. I guess I also are the only that also wishes that EVE stays EVE and not another version of... SWG? or a better(?) version of STO.

Ofcourse they can implement 3D view, bleh, but stop and ask yourself why. And then ask yourself, really? Why?

Perhaps this latest expansion also had some players that realised, with WIS, this is not my "EVE Game" anymore.