Originally posted by CallsignVega 

 

This shows such a lack of basic statistical analysis understanding that it is laughable. You should stick to watching cartoons instead of trying to make an intelligent post on such a subject.

I think he knows more then what shows :D

You see, he comes here with easily disputible arguments, apperant flaws.
The outcome is that we see through those argument, notices the flaws and defend CCP/EVE. We are part of a machine distributing good will towards EVE and the OP started it.

I don't know what to call it, maybe someone see where I am heading with this, reversed psychology? We all came togheteher on this subject disputed the statements and proved the OP wrong and by doing so adding points to the "CCP camp" ;)

Originally posted by Ibluerate

Is there a way for me to control my ship that doesn't include pointing and clicking?

Like can I control my turning and moving about with the keyboard and stuff?

I don't really care, just curious.

Nope, not even Basil had any "Manuel control" really.

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by rwmiller

Originally posted by mklinic

Originally posted by SilverDropX

No MMO out there gives accurate CCU numbers.  Why would they?

I'm going to guess CCU is meant to be Concurrent Users? If so, EvE displays how many users are online at the login screen and, being one server it's really the only place you need to look. I mean sure, I guess the number could be inaccurate, but that starts to get into conspiracy theories and what not.

 

Okay, let's change the myth. This Eve is on one server thing is the real myth. Eve Online is played on one honking big cluster with lots of instanced systems that you have to move to. If anywhere near all of the players normally online (20k to 30k) tried to enter Jita I suspect that Iceland would go up in a cloud of steam from the resulting meltdown.

 

The fact that it is really just a bunch of interconnected systems normally doesn't matter until you get to a gate and are told you can transfer because there is congestion and traffic control won't let you pass. Yes in space they can't hear you scream even when in a traffic jam.

 

Christ, now are we getting that stuff again ...

EVE does not have instances, it has zones, the difference being that everyone can go everywhere and kill everyone!

And yes, EVE is not 1 server, it is 1 big shard, in contrast to regular mmo's ( WoW, LOTRO, EQ, ... ) that have many small shards ( which still use more than 1 server to run them, so in essence they are clusters as well ).

I hope we educated some people in the process of this thread :)

If you want to criticize EVE, use facts, like telling you don't like the slow combat, the skill training system, or the sound system for example.

 

It's running on a, one (1), Sparc 10 in the techno viking's basement. Duh!

Originally posted by Nasir64

Originally posted by mklinic

 So, just to clarify, there are 300k sources of revenue for CCP whether they are individual people or not? 

Otherwise, I've heard people bring up the 300k number but it is almost always accompanied by, or shortly followed by, comments about people with multiple accounts. Was this really a state secret?

 

Considering I havn't paid real money for an account in the past few years, No. And if you read the posts before then apparently it is a hidden secret people don't want others to know. lol

It's a strange "secret" as CCP campaigns for multiple accounts themself.

Originally posted by Ettirxa

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by Nasir64

 

I hate to break it to these guys feeding misinformation but this is the honest to god truth. At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k. I have seen it at 51k ONE time in my 5 and a half years of playing. Hell I think out of the 100's of people I know maybe 4 have one account, and 2 of them guys closed the second account due to $$ issues.

51K players how long ago was that? You should also remember that uhm, 2005 the record was at 19 000 if I remember correct. Your 5 years have no rethoric value in this statement.

 

 

the 51k number was reached earlier this year, shortly after the release of Apocrypha. I expect within a few weeks of dominion being released we will see the PCU broken again.

I started playing EVE mid 2007, and I can remember seeing between 30 35k online. And people were saying all the time how EVE has peaked we will never see 40k online, then they said oh we will never see 50k online.

The reason you havnt seen this 50k number rise in the last few months can be atributed to the "unholy rage" in the summer when CCP banned all those  RMT accounts that would mostly be logged in 24 / 7.

Yes, the PCU has constantly been higher troughout the years. (And spending 5 years in the game the OP is very well aware of that.) I could have understood his rethoric if have been once over 50k and that was a few years back, or if he had stated his playtime to be 6 months or similar.

It is such an apperant flaw in his argumentation.

Originally posted by Nasir64

 

I hate to break it to these guys feeding misinformation but this is the honest to god truth. At no point in time will you ever see the players currently online break 50k. I have seen it at 51k ONE time in my 5 and a half years of playing. Hell I think out of the 100's of people I know maybe 4 have one account, and 2 of them guys closed the second account due to $$ issues.

51K players how long ago was that? You should also remember that uhm, 2005 the record was at 19 000 if I remember correct. Your 5 years have no rethoric value in this statement.

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by dragowulf

 Honestly this is how it works.  You go to a game with massive amounts of people, you're bound to get more nerdy/kiddy aholes.  Fact is that WoW makes people crazy.  I literally had to tortilla slap my best bud to get him to go out side and smell the fresh air because of that game.  I played EQ1, EQ2, AoC, LotRO, WAR, and Aion and I've never seen a more crazy playerbase in any of those compared to WoW.  Just for the sake of the thread I am going to call it the "WoW effect".

You also have to remember that WoW has most of the younger crowd who are more impatient, where games like EQ2 have a higher adult to kid ratio.  I'm in the 18-24 area myself, but I hate the massive amount of kids and 18-45 year olds who act like children that I see in games..namely WoW.

 

http://www.wow.com/2009/04/09/nielsen-wow-is-most-played-core-game-by-25-54-females/

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/stateofvgamer_040609_fnl1.pdf

 

Sorry but WOW is most played core  game by 25-54 females.

I did not find the Nielsen definition of a "core" game so I  may be wrong but the report shows that there was:
Solitaire 4,648,004
World of Warcraft 428,621
So unless the obvious definition of a core game is WoW then I think they are saying that solitaire is the most played game, by a large amount, for females 25-54. And that there is 429 000 female players of WoW in the age of 25-54.

But I guess you was saying that a female can't be and never will be consideres nerdy/kiddy or crazy?

A social survey with 1.8 M US citizens proves you wrong.

Read the report you are refering to.

The Nielsen Company measures personal computer game play in the U.S. portion of the Nielsen MegaPanel, which has more 184,000 personal computers under measurement. Panelists in the MegaPanel install a software meter on their personal computer which enables Nielsen to track what programs are running on the personal computer. As of March 1st, 2009 Nielsen is tracking 1,777 individual PC game titles.

Shure, 1 800 000 computers tracked is more then 184 000, although I would bet that the amount they mean with saying "more" is not 1 600 000...

And yes US does not equal NA.

And yes Nielsen is a social study buro based on scientific sampling.

They tell in that survey that 29% of the total pc game players are female age 25-54.

29% of their 1 800 000( number of unique WoW players) is 522 000.
428 621 is 24% of 1 800 000. That's close enough I guess.

But it also shows a trend that one could read that even if 25-54 females is the largest PC Game player group. When it comes to WoW that number differs on the side of being lower than the general trend. But let's compare the same for male players.

Male 25-54 number for wow it is:
20% (taken from the PC Game total chart) of their 1 800 000( number of unique WoW players) is 360 000.
675,713 (taken from top played game chart) is 37% of 1 800 000. That's close enough I guess.

Ok so that number really differed when comparing with, using your definition, a core game. I would bet that there is more into this survey than mentioned.

 

And yes WOW shows a rather nice stratification of society.

And yes people claiming otherwise don't have proof and are really mostly douchebags who are /ignored by those millions who play happily in game ... AND PAY for it.

 "I am in the 18-24 aera myself". So silly to even state this. My son of 16 would even laugh with it.

I bet he can read reports?

 I'm adding this to point it out.

They mention that the WoW playing female play Solitaire less then WoW, yet Is 4 600 000 playing solitaire. And those 4,6 Million solitaire females is contributing to the total PC Game market, of wich 29% is female. And that the amount of male player of solitaire is >25% less.

It would be interseting to see their numbers if they would remove those figures and it would also be interesting to see if their calculations made from the gathered data of 184 000 computers would differ after doing this. Just look at the stated numbers for WoW and the diiference is pretty clearly shown 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

----> Blaming a community in ANY mmorpg (and certainly in by far the most played mmorpg) is ALWAYS a very weak argument. And it shows more about the poster than about the society.

 

Shurely?

I quit WoW a few years back mostly because of the bad attitude in the community.

http://www.stormscale.org/viewtopic.php?t=14971

"FUCK OFF FROM STORMSCALE YOU PIECE OF SHIT JEW SINCE YOU PVP FAGGOTS STARTED POURING TO THE REALM MAKING IT THE GAY BAR OF EU SERVERS IT HAS LAGGED LIKE SHIT AND IS QUEUED EVERY NIGHT AND IS FULL OF FUCKING BAD PLAYERS "

I only need to go back to this forum and find a gem like this (it took me less then a minute) and I no longer feel the urge to play again.

I don't see a reason to why one should have bare with these things, no reason at all. One have to get into to inner circle of the club get accepted, need to learn to "speak the language", bullshit!

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Euphoryk

It doesn't matter whether you said that or not, you implied it.

 

No, you inferred it.

And hopefully that was your intention. Otherwise what was the point of your post (don't admit your stupidity, if there are any)?

You can't seriously have felt the necessity of telling us that using this program is bad while driving, in a reply to work/school use. C'mon.

Originally posted by ElendilasX 

This may be the case sometimes but there may be another option too:

You come to movie, it starts and in first minutes you see that actors even dont know their lines, spec effects are unfinished and so on... Why wait more if beginning sucks, for hope it will change?

And then you will write a review of the movie, as in that movie you did not watch, and think you actually did a review?

I have not seen the youtube video but, uhm... nvm.

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Originally posted by Eben

Originally posted by dfan

Originally posted by CyberWiz

Pretty logical since windows 7 is only a slight adjustment of Vista.

Vista was always a good OS, very stable.

Windows 7 is a bit better out of the box than Vista, but for tweakers, the difference is negligeble as we tend to disable things like superfetch anyway. Basically they made Windows 7 more newbie friendly.

 

 

Little off-topic but why would anyone want to disable superfetch? One of the best new things in windows.
 

 

Because in a world where people have desktop PCs with 8 gigs of ram (like the one I'm posting this on), people still cling to the idea that 20-30 megs of ram in use by the OS for some service they don't fully understand is 'wasted resources'.

IE, they're clueless. 

 

Superfetch in Vista took away all your RAM for caching purposes. Often there was more than 2GB of RAM that was used as cache from a total of 4GB RAM. Superfetch seems to be improved in Windows 7, but still I don't see a good reason to use it when playing games.

I think you are clueless about the workings of superfetch.

 

He might be but there is at least one game that utilizes the chache function, Fallen Earth, apperantly the chacheing of files speeds up and makes lag from loading files less apperant.

I'm pretty shure though that there is alot of other games that could work well with this function.

Originally posted by a_name

 

How does an individual... "have an active prepaid card".

That says to me, they purchase or are gifted (have) a card with a legitimate key activation number(an active).

The act of "activating" the number via the website can be done at your leisure but the "active" card still counts whether "activated" or not because the words only ask that the card is "active" i.e. valid, usable, real, not a fake.

...  "to play world of warcraft"... doesn't say "and are playing" "played this week" not even "has an existing account".

Just says the card is off a retailer shelf, is intended to be used to play wow, and has a valid (active) key.

 

To keep it simple. Blizzard has one store, they have one retailer, they create 1 timecard/day.

1:

Day 1: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

Day 2: The retailer sells that card. - Card counts as one sub.
Day 2: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

Day 3: The retailer sells 1 timecard. -Card counts as a sub.
Day 3: The customer types in the the keycode from day 2 into the account.
Day 3: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

And so on...

2:

Day 1: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

Day 2: The retailer sells that card.
Day 2: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

Day 3: The retailer sells 1 timecard.
Day 3: The customer types in the the keycode from day 2 into the account. - Counts as a sub.
Day 3: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

Day 4: The retailer sells 1 timecard.
Day 4: The customer types in the the keycode from day 3 into the account. -Counts as a sub.
Day 4: Blizzard creates 1 timecard.

And so on...
 

-----

The difference in that is the delay in one day... Still you'd only be having 2 subscriptions counted.

Originally posted by Daffid011 

How could blizzard possibly know when retail cards are sold?  That is the flaw in your theory.  Once those cards go into the retail system, blizzard has no idea whos hands they are in.

Because retailers makes a few millions calls each months saying they sold a card... Because retailers runs a specific system for the accounting of timecards, specifically made to report to Blizzard. And all employes in retail stores are in on this secret.

Originally posted by a_name 

The retailers say we sold 15/50 cards you sent us at months end - now they have 15 "active prepaid cards" lurking that get tallied into the sub composite.

That would equal alot of people saying that, it would add up to 66 666 times/month for 1 Million subscribers... You do the math.

And, uhm, you do believe this would not already be leaked?

Originally posted by a_name

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by a_name 

Where is your proof that when a card is "purchased" in China the points expire if they are not used within 30 days?

 

If the card is active then it is not expired, you're not really trying to prove that the active cards add to the subscriber numbers... That didn't really fit your argumentation, now get back on track

 

Maybe you should reread my posts - that is exactly what I state. You must be picking the wrong person to quote. They made the claim of expiration out of nowhere to support I'm not sure what. My statement has been more to the effect of when the card gets printed it is assigned a key that activates it's usage. Without the key it is an inactive piece of cardboard.

Ok, so you are saying that when the card is printed then it is activated and active?

That you would believe that the overhead needed to track all sales to see if a card is sold, what is seemingly your defintition of an active game card, is doable is odd.

Originally posted by a_name 

38 renminbi/yuan = 5.57 USD for 48 hours/600 points = *3
= 16.71 USD for 144 hours average of 5 hrs a day play time
Counts as 3 subs

38 renminbi/yuan = 5.57 USD for 48 hours/600 points = *6
= 33.42 USD for 288 hours average of 10 hrs a day play time
Counts as 6 subs

`````````````````````````````````````````````

5 million subs / 3 = 1,666,667 million subs

5 million subs / 6 = 833,334 thousand subs

`````````````````````````````````````````````

I think in this case they are displaying 3 or more times the numbers by the way they sell their
cards. For sure it's got to be twice the numbers (i.e. 2 game cards) - who could play 24 hours a month and stay competitive?

And why do you say that all 5 million chinese players play competitive?
Or even saying they play the game roughly (atleast) 5h every day of the month every single one them.

 

Originally posted by a_name 

Where is your proof that when a card is "purchased" in China the points expire if they are not used within 30 days?

 

If the card is active then it is not expired, you're not really trying to prove that the active cards add to the subscriber numbers... That didn't really fit your argumentation, now get back on track

Originally posted by Wizardry

First of all i commented on that NPD list before ,you might as well throw it out the window.I stumbled onto it researching the legitimacy of EA's game Spore being rated number 2 before it even hit the shelves.At the time i did a lot of homework and found that most of the games in the list directly fund that marketing company.

I did a lot of math on the whole WOW numbers thing before,i don't feel like getting into it,but i figured the ACTUAL concurrent player count is around 4-5 million no where near the 11 million players, people think or  try to claim there is.It falls under the same reasoning as AION.

That reasoning is that there is a MASSIVE amount of RMT activity going on in both those games.Even though Aion's botting is a little more noticeable,IMO WOW still tops the chart by leaps and bounds for RMT use.I am sure most are aware of add ons that allow multiple accounts to be played via ONE player?this is how RMT utilize 5+ bots to one account.There is legit players that also do this,so there is no way in hell you could ever try to convince ANYONE that there is 11 million actual players.RMT do NOT count as players.Multi controlled accounts do NOT count as multiple players.

Then you figure in how many TIME card accounts expire EVERY day,you actually think they have someone totaling up those massive numbers ongoing?An expired time card is not an expired account,they can re activate it the very next day,i highly doubt Blizzard auto removes that account on an expired time card.I would lean closer to the fact that every time someone activates a time card,they claim it as a NEW account,that is MUCH easier than tracking on/off accounts via time cards.

Anyhoot,like i said after you figure everything in and realistically ONLY account for REAL players ,the actual player count is around 4-5 million.AION is almost in the same boat,although i doubt multi bot use from one player is as active as in WOW,there is still a TON of RMT activity,they  make up a VERY large amount of the accounts.

Are you actually saying that it is harder to distuingished an inactive account using timecards compared to using VISA?
Care to dvelve further into that and explain?
 

Originally posted by SaintViktor

Games shouldn't even use subscription numbers because it is flawed. I can go buy a pre-paid card, make an account  and never play but still be counted as an active subscriber. When a system like this is flawed there are just so many ways to get around it but yet still be technically correct.

You gave me alot of thougths... After I read what you typed I just had to do some calculations, now I'm not any expert in this area but I can do basic maths. Just to make a quick check on your theory. And plsease note that I 'm using numbers that is more easy to calculate with.

So, let's say that:

WoW have 10 000 000 subscribers.
Subscription fee is $15.

In reality they have 2 000 000 subscribers.
Blizzard employes buys 8 000 000 monthly subscriptions and pre-paid cards. Ofcourse they get thiss money beck from Blizzard.

2 000 000 x $15 = $30 000 000
8 000 000 x $15 = $120 000 000

$75 000 000 - $120  000 000= -$90 000 000

Eh, I don't think they do this.

Ok so they have 8 000 000 subscribers but they falsely buys 2 000 000 subscriptions and cards.
So it would be:
$120 000 000 - $30 000 000 = $90 000 000

Yeah! They could afford this.
But I am thinking about something let's check that first.

They have (in reality still) 8 000 000 subscribers but doesn't any cards or subscriptions.
$120 000 000 - $0 = $120 000 000

Hmm, that was odd? They seem to make more money if they don't buy any subscriptions themself.

Ahh, maybe they give their employes free subscriptions to the amount of 2 000 000 accounts. Or why even bother with that why don't they just open up 2 millions accounts themself.

That could work. OH WAIT! While I am writing this something hits me... Even if they would give away merely 10 000 subscriptions to bolster their numbers it would be leaked somehow. Think of if they would do this by the millions.

Yeah, surely the amount of people that pays for the game and not play is neglectable and also accountable towards their subscription numbers without making it flawed. Isn't it?

Originally posted by superslaya

Originally posted by daylight01

Originally posted by superslaya

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by superslaya

I built my computer from the ground up. I have plenty of computer experience because I have worked extensively with them since I was 8 years old. I am turning 20 on the third of November.

There is my setup and I have worked with it on many different ram configurations ranging from 512 to as you see now, 3070.

Each setup was capable of running and sustaining Age of Conan.

 

You are the first one that actually said the the amount of RAM in a computer is the most forgiving part when it comes to performance. And I've spent time with the PC platform, it's hardware and discussing things with people IRL, longer then you have lived... :S

You ran AoC with 512MB RAM?
It worked well?

By all means, tell me what you think to be the most forgiving part.

 

I think I would go with the 2 little screws holding my side panel on,I also have 2 plastic clasps that lock it,so I guess if I was to take these 2 screws away it would be pretty forgiving on my system.

I dont think this would gimp my system in any shape or form unlike if I was to start lowering my RAM,CPU,PSU etc etc etc.

/Sarcasm off.

 

Nice, but I was actually speaking of parts that actually made a computer run, not the case you keep it in.

I could quite easily strip my entire system from it's case and submerge it in a tub of oil. It would run quite admirably.

Now then, of the parts it actually takes to boot up a computer? Altering the RAM used will probably change it the least, hence most RAM benchmarks maintaining about a 10 percent difference in strength.

 

Now, try the same with anything else and you are likely to see drastic changes. Try a graphics card with half of the power, you won't be able to start the game. Use half the RAM? It will still play.

You are going into the extremes... you are not seriously aiming to argue over that the power cord from the computer is the most important thing in your computer setup... please don't reply to that.

If I would change my memory from 4GB to 2GB and compare it to use a Athlon 2400+ and a Athonl X3 (2800)...

* Athlon 2400+, 4GB RAM
* Athlon X3, 4GB RAM

* Athlon 2400+, 4GB RAM
* Athlon 2400+, 2GB RAM

* Athlon X3, 4GB RAM
* Athlon X3, 2GB RAM

Yeah right...

But you are saying that you will have more performance, or atleast that the memory size is the most forgiving part, with going from a single core to dual core than raising the memory from 512MB to 3072MB (taken from your example. That's ignorance.
All in all, a setup with a single core and 512MB is really in the need for? Upgrade?

Memory is forgiving when it is starting from a memory size that already is fine. Geezus. The guy in this review memory size was not ok.

Now I have taken my time to reply to you. Please do me the courtesy and reply to my question.

You ran AoC with 512MB RAM?
It worked well?