Hmm curious as to how it plays out.  I treat Modern Warfare 2 as an MMO.  It involves lots of players, leveling up, aquiring better more powerful weaponry, skills, and attachments to customize your dude.  But I guess they only way it can really be an MMO if it involves the world at war (again) and you play a faction.  You do missions for said mission and do the same things as the Modern Warafre franchise.  Oh wait MAG does that.  256 player battles, leveling up, skill points into skills, classes, upgraded weapons etc.

I personally think WoW is garbage but it had its moments...i played for over 5 years but when it comes to degree of content it doesn't stack up to games like EQ2 or Eve.  That and all the kids who play are just as annoying.  Almost as annoying as the ones who play Modern Warfare 2.

I'd say wait 2-3 weeks after launch before diving in with the fanboys.  Every game has them no matter what, even the garbage games like WoW, SWG, AoC, Eve (flaming responses in 3...2...1).  But no matter what it seems to be the norm people will defend their game regardless and if you were calling a fan boy foolish on a Cryptic moded forum for a Cryptic game then it's really no surprise they did this.  I think if you did the same on another game's board about said game it would happen there as well.  Doesn't matter if you're right or wrong.  The mods are there to moderate on their terms so dissing their game or their player will probably net you said warnings....that's why most of the flame wars are here at the un-biased mmorpg.com forums :)  They don't care so long as it doesn't get out of hand (using profanity or going for straight racial slurs, etc.)

I beta tested EE.  It is a very different game so I'm agreeing with you there.  When it comes to outside activities.  I tried golf.  What do you get when you cross a first time at golf, a sailor, and beer...my 18 holf golf game turned into "lets see how far I can drive this into the lagoon" :D.  But when it comes to games, the saddest part is I thoroughly enjoy very cartoonish comical games like Wonder King, Bright Shadow, and Fusionfall.  It seems dumb I know but I guess it's something about the games that have small communities and are design for whimsical fun versus the "hardcore" game that requires you to grind up to 80 and then once you're there deal with jerks in raids to sit there and grind the same raid or dungeon over and over for that once piece of gear that will boost your gear score.

I'm on my 10-day trial right now.  I still haven't made up my mind on whether or not to get it but it is still a fun romp and different than anything else I've played.  I guess just try the 10-day trial and see for yourself.  Me, I'm still trying to figure it out.  If anything I just may buy it and add it to my reputoir of MMO's.

I see your point.  But somewhere Cryptic did something right to keep bringing gamers in.  I mean CoH is still a good game to some (and yes I find some aspects of it enjoyable) but I'm waiting for DC Universe for my superhero MMO.  But yes, the environments in Cryptic's games could use some flavor I don't always look at the environment per say but whether I feel I enjoyed playing in it.  Space combat is fun in STO, no lies there but the ground combat could use some tweaking.  Now if only they utilized some Eve aspects when it comes to exploration (wormhole discoveries, etc.) then perhaps STO would make for a better Space combat MMO.  But then again this is the first game to really mix up ground and space combat this way.

So I was doing my usual round of MMO's (Eve, STO beta, Atlantica) and my wife decides to point out that I have been playing these three lately but have subscribed to so many others and played more in the past.  She calls it MMO ADHD.  I admit I can't sit down and play any one game for more than an hour or so and I would say since EQ1 I have bought and invested time in EQ1, FFXI, WOW, EQ2, SWG, Tabula Rasa, WAR, Aion, Guild Wars, Pirates of the Burning Sea, Eve.  And when I think about it I sit back and onder, "Wow I really don't do anything but sit around and play video games." 

But the real realization is how expensive it adds up to.  For granted I can afford to pay for 3 P2P MMO's at a time and still get the new hotness coming out on the consoles (owning all three next gen).  But it's just mind boggling how much people can put into the gaming industry to keep entertained even for a little while.  I am game's worse critic just because I can count the number of games I can just sit down and get lost in on one hand.  So in order for me to rate a game as excellent it's gotta keep my attention for 2 hours plus.  The only games that have done this are Mass Effect, Final Fantasy XII, Modern Warfare 2, and Bioshock.  Everything else gets and "Ok" unless I turn it on and I can only play it for 30 minutes before getting disgusted, then it gets a crap review.  Unfortunately I didn't list an MMO as a great game.  I defend a lot of them as good games, but they just require some work and a lot of little sporadic play times.

But then she brings the idea that perhaps I should do the F2P MMO's more since they cost nothing and if I really want to stick with one I can do it on my terms.  So I posted this for others like me who just play them all and wanted to give the idea of playing a F2P MMO rather than a P2P if you're having a hard time keeping engaged.  Now the real question.  Which F2P stands out above the rest?  They all fill in for a certain niche but I'm just trying to figure out which one really speaks out to me.

There wasn't any sarcasm.  i agree STO needs more social hubs than a chat box in space but then again STO probably has the most instances since everything and it's mother is instanced in this game.  I don't even know if I would call STO zoned at all.  It's a bunch of jumping between point A and point B in space, zone in, do "x" mission, zone out, turn it, repeat for eevrything int eh game till you hit rank 50.  Sounds boring but if you think about it that's the general make up of every game.  It's just WoW and EQ2 handled it differently.  They had huge zones where as STO has instances in space which make up your content.  I feel that people should really wait the 6 month window after STO releases to make decisions on whether to play or not.  At least, hopefully, by then the bugs will be gone and the game will have been able to show it's true colors.

Someone fudged the concept with cash shops for games when they brought them over to subscription based games.  However, cash shops are incredibly popular with Asian MMO's.  The big thing if they are usually F2P so the cash shop is kind of their way of saying " help support this game and we give you an advantage or nifty item".  I can see it working that way sicne developers have to eat as well but I think it's a horrible idea of P2P games.

Originally posted by dunesw64

Originally posted by Ravenmane

Shallowness is an opinion.

No, it's really not. Tic-Tac-Toe is to Chess as Star Trek Online is to Eve Online. Also, you'd have to not seen a single episode of any Star Trek series to defend that Romulan mission in any way. The Federation has never been about shooting first and ask questions later. The Federation is Gene Roddenberry's vision of an utopian organization that chooses ethics, morals, and intelligence over brute force. I guess some people just don't know a thing about Star Trek, despite claiming otherwise, and think that brute force is something the likes of Picard or Kirk would choose first.

Shallowness is the opinion.  You thinking a game is shallow is the same as me saying SWG was garbage when it first came out.  It's how you interpret.  And I have probably seen more Star Trek than most here and even though the Federation may be Gene Roddenberry's utopian vision you have to take into consideration that no matter what humans will always have ulterior motives regardless of someone elses dream.  The founding fathers used wanted America to be the land of the free  where people were proud to be American but nowadays American freedom is bought with the power of money.  One person can take the lives thousands and change them because they chose to lay off those people in favor of cheap labor overseas so they can have fatter pockets.

Do I agree with Cryptic's decision on some things, no.  However, I'm pointing out the reality, the human side of things and how the ambitious goals of someone's greed or "image" of a game can change the original design of something.  And that's game design 101...the concept of how the game started and the original idea was probably perfect but somewhere along the way it got edited, changed, the idea was modified and we are now given the current idea which may of differentiated from the original design of the game.

On the note of the morally wrong objectives...you kind of have to think about it really.  You're sent into Romulan space to search for a secret weapon.  We all know Starfleet and Romulans aren't on the greatest terms and a Starfleet vessel operating in Romulan space seeking Romulan technology would almost be grounds for war right there.  So you have to consider the black ops option.  Go in, search for information, kill anyone who gets in your way to avoid interstellar war.  It's not pretty and it's definitely  morally wrong but at the same time an understandable necessity.  It's the human side of getting things done and in all honesty, there's going to be the image of an organization and then the underhanded side.

You're killing Romulans you encounter to save the image of Starfleet so the intergalactic community doesn't view Starfleet as underhanded space pirates and still views them as Starfleet.  But on the other side you have Starfleet brass from intel saying the Romulans have a secret weapon and in the interest of the galactic community you want this inofrmation so the Romulans don't have a distinct advantage against people and you can prepare when they do unveil it so it's not a huge threat.

So if me killing Romulans was because I was doing it to help my side and avoid a war then by all means I'm ok with it.

Shallowness is an opinion.  Just like most reviews and quotes about the game are opinions.  What's disappointing is the amount of "STO is CO" crap.  If STO was like CO then our Starfleet officers would be running (flying?) around as giant robots or ninjas beating the crap out of supervillains.  I think the closest thing this has to CO is the server set up and a cash shop.  All I was simply trying to say with the post is "the game isn't for everyone."  But for some reason the people who complain about the game in one form or another feel the urge to shout it out on forums and then when the posts pop up defending the game they feel the urge to go and tear it down in one form or another because they think they are the quality authority of the MMO community.

People will like this game regardless of the opinions of the people here.  I'll use a non-MMO reference.  The game S.T.A.L.K.E.R.  Got horrible reviews when it first came out.  But then I was bored and a store employee at a local electronic store was talking about it and how after a patch the game is actually better (though still a steep learning curve, save often).  So I bought the game and even though it was different than the typical FPS it is still doing well enough to have me playing it and it's getting ready to get it's second expansion.

For those of you who want my honest opinion on whether or not to try it or not, just wait for a trial and figure that out for yourself.  I personally enjoy the game, not saying I'm right, everyone has their likes and dislike (I loath elves and wish they would all die) but I guess people took my post as a defensive one and since I was defending a game they apparently loathed then they felt the need to bash on me.  And equally apparent since I was defending said "crappy" game then my intelligence is apparently brought into question when in all honesty I feel if you are bashing the OP's intellect then you obviously can't find fair grounds to base your argument  but felt the need to say something anyway.

I've played MMO's far longer than most of the people on these boards even knew they existed.  And over the last couple days of browsing these hurmorous forums here on mmorpg.com I've noticed a lot of dispute between the regulars about STO, good or bad.  Working as a freelance in game development has taught me some things.  Games aren't designed to appeal to everybody.  Each game is it's own take on a certain genre, given the IP behind it or original thought.

STO seems to get plagued by people who seem to be "the real deal know it alls in the MMO community".  I'll tell you right now, and this is aimed at the WOW-kiddies, STO isn't here to bring down WoW.  In fact that's not the point of an MMO developer at all.  WoW is not the target.  Why?  Because smart developers realise that in order to release a successful MMO, you don't try to best one that's established and had 5 years of polish added to it.  It's a waste of money and it can detract from the original idea (cause personally I don't want to be a space-ship driving orc shaman in STO, that some moron thought was a good idea "because that other game had orc shamans").  I'll wait till Warhammer 40k Online for my orcs and spaceships.

Cryptic set out to create a MMO based on the Star Trek IP.  And so far they seem to have delivered.  Everything in the Star Trek universe has pertained to a captain of some sort.  So they let you play the captain of your own starship and let you choose your specialty (tactical, engineering, or science), I believe that constitues as playing the role of somebody or roleplaying in regards to a certain post stating that the game isn't an MMORPG.  You do "level up" which enables you to spend your skills how you want so you can specialize how you want (again a RPG aspect).  You fly around your spaceship with your crew doing away and space missions which are fun and I enjoy outfitting my ship.  I think giving the player the ability to be a captain of their own ship in the Star Trek universe and doing things like they did in the show was exactly what Cryptic aimed for.  Someone once stated that this game wasn't worth anything because you couldn't play as a main character...if you want to play a main character go play a console game.

When I see the posst about lack of content I do have to wonder for a second.  Up until late last week you couldn't go past level 16 and you were restricted to two areas of space.  I believe the beta notes specifically state that the player would be limited in content up to a certain point for the beta test and the rest would be opened later.  And since they opened everything at the end of last week and this weekend was the last beta weekend the only way you could have experienced everything was if you knew some crack code to let you level fast and didn't sleep, eat, or crap for 48 hours straight.  The game has plenty of content for starting out.  Heck, WoW, when it first came out you were capped at 60 (which took about 2 months casual play time) and only had one serious raid and it was Molten Core.  Blackwing Lair didn't come out till 6 months later.  By todays standards I'd say that for starting content WoW had less than most new games coming out.

I'm not defending for Lifetime Subscription reasons (I don't have it, can't cough up $240 for it), I'm just stating what needed to be said in the first place...that STO isn't for everybody and that wasn't the goal.  The game style is different like it should be since each game should bring something to the table no other game has utilized yet.  I do argue their choice for handling servers.  It's a risky choice but at the same time I can see why they do it, and that's to reduce costs sinc server upkeep is expensive.  However, a lot of people complain about the cash shop.  I think that adding a cash shop helps in some ways since it is the preferred method in Asian countries.  And hey, didn't WoW just go to a cash shop with the Pandaren Monk and Lil KT?  And how many of you fanbois bought them?

Anyway, I will rest peacefully knowing that myself and the rest of the mature gamers who just enjoy a game for the content and the fact it's Star Trek will be enjoying.

[Mod Edit]

The article was entertaining and the game is actually pretty decent if you can understand it's currently in beta and know what a beta truly is.  A lot of the responses and things floating around the forums that shout out negativity of the game is just another reminder that opinions on mmorpg.com are just laughed at.  9 out of 10 people I chat with on STO or EQ2 say they stop by the forums every once in a while but honestly really pay no heed just because mmorpg.com forum posters tend to be 1 of two things...a) the WoW fanboys who think their game is god and want to try to ruin every game before it's out or b) the SWG fanboys who are pissed off at S.O.E for the crappy changes to SWG and are just venting. 

Honestly if you brows the forums here it's a lot of hate regardless of game.  But if you go to the STO forums or unofficial forums there's a lot of support.  Star Trek is probably one of the biggest IP's to be made into an MMO and a lot of people want to see it succeed and many will do what they can to help.  If you really hate the game that much just go wallow in your self-righteousness somewhere else.  It seems the opinions here just ruin credibility with the serious gaming community, more mature gaming community.

I understand people are sketchy because of CO, or because of the C-Store but face it it's not entirely their fault.  Microtransactions are actually the prefered method over in foreign countries and to really compete in today's market to be a major contender as an MMO a microtransaction store is almost mandatory.  The grind from CO felt that way because it wasn't a gradual change in xp gain but it felt more like a sudden drop.  If they could have just did a gradual change with xp gain then the game would probably be better.

I'm in ebat and it's not perfect but it's far better than some of the crap out there (that and the little sci-fi geek in me is happy to finally have a sci-fi MMO with ship and group combat besides SWG).  It's not bad and I'll be there early release with teh rest of teh trekkies even though I'm not considered one.  But it's a fun romp and worth looking into.

Most reviews are a description of the game so a person knows ahead of time what they're getting into.  If I have to add criticism it was the fact of perhaps lack of direction that myself and so many others were used to.  However, because the learning curve was so steep, and the game relied on heavy exploration it reminded me of my days of EQ1 before Lucline came out.  I had to relearn how to play the game based on reading my mission and exploring.  The missions give you a target system, however you still have to search for it.  In  my review I did forget to add my criticisms but I am adding them here.

Besides learning curve and having to put myself in an old-school mindset I will have to say something about teh graphics.  I'm pretty sure the graphics are set for DX 9 right now even though DX 10 is really where today's top end games strive for graphically.  But then graphcis don't always do it for me.  As long as the story is well written and the missions are engaging I can overlook graphical flaws to an extent.  I just hope they implement DX 10 in the near future.

Controls can take some getting used to, especially in space combat.  Movement not so much but if you want more options in abilities (such as transferring power)  then you have to expand your hotbars and manually put them in yourself.  This really is aimed at devices which are kind of like potions for the ship.  The only abilities automatically put in are weapons (even though they have their own cluster) and and skills you earn as you rank up.  So you will have to take some time to customize your hotbars to fulfill your needs and maximize your combat effectiveness.

One last criticism is the server.  Cryptic is going the way of the single server like Champions Online that's split into a bunch of smaller sub-servers.  I can see it being more cost effective to have it set up this way but at the same time they run the risk of server overload which was an issue during the beta where too many people were on that a lot couldn't hop on and try the game so they had to bring in more hardware to handle the load.  At the same time servers are expensive and they don't want to run into the mistake of investing a lot of money in a bunch of servers so they're full at launch but then the excitement of the new shiney toy dies in two to three months and they're left with a smaller crowd and multiple expensive servers.

I couldn't really hit up the UI since, according to teh )1/18/10 state of the game address, they said the final UI isn't in teh game but will be ready for launch.

So my judgement still stands at 8.5/10.  It's not perfect by any means but it's a pretty good romp through Star Trek space and lore.

So STO has been having some mixed reviews thrown around and one of the things I noticed was the "reviewers" were explaining how bad the game was in a beta state or if it was good  the only negative things were graphics engine and such.  Being a seasoned beta tester and testing games to test the game and not treat it like a free trial I figured I would throw in my two cents; un-biased of course.

Being the fact it is in beta I overlook bugs, graphics, lack of content, etc. because 99% of betas are like that regardless of the game.  Another thing to keep in mind is the beta isn't a finished product; you're not going to see level cap and complete graphics, and all the content just because those are things they still want to keep uner lid till release so even the beta testers have fresh content.  And I've been asked who tests the unreleased content and that's professional QA teams, people that tested the game even before closed beta started.

So here I go giving a review of what I've experienced.  First place i want to hit is where graphics are headed.  From the beta I can tell the graphics will be amazing.  The art department really took into account all the fine details of uniforms and ships and how light reflects off the surfaces as well as textures.  When it comes to characters the beta was limited but still did a fair amount of cutomization when it came to characters and ships, the rest will be released upon release.

So I created my Trill (no symbiotic traits, though) and upon starting my illustrious career as a tactical officer, what do i see, a ship in duress.  The tutorial/starter area does a fairly good job of getting you used to the controls, though it does seem fairly shallow and all i really wanted to do was get it over with and actually start my Starfleet career.  After finishing the starter area I'm sent to the Earth docking station which seemed to be the main hub for gathering, upgrading ships, crew, gear, etc.  It's a fairly simple layout, though I did get tired of the "Where's Sulu" questions when all they had to do was follow directions and explore a little.  And exploring is exactly what you will do, a lot.

Cryptic paid homage to the TV shows with the mission variety.  Now keep in mind the game is designed to immerse you in the Star Trek univers; so your missions range from the story missions to escort missions, patrol missions, exploring missions, as well as campaign missions against an anemey force (such as Klingon for the federation).  I enjoy the variety of missions, however, you need to be used to exploring because a lot of this game is centered on exploring to reach your destination.  But the mission rewards are Bridge Officer Points, energy (currency), starship points, as well as points for your character.  From there you may get an item or piece of gear for yourself or your ship or even new officers.  You get points to upgrade your skills and your officers have their own pool of points.  Then your ship gets points with which to upgrade it, as well.  You have to spend the points in order to progress through the game as you get them otherwise you're kinda useless as you go up in rank.

Space combat is a lot of fun.  You can increase or decrease speed with the "E" and "Q" keys or throw it into overdrive for increase speed but hurts other systems, or you can put your ship in reverse.  Your shields are split into four sections which enable a tactical feel to combat if one goes down you have to change heading.  You can click on one to transfer power from a full shield to a weaker one or stabalize all shields.  Your ships have multiple firing arcs.  At the start your ship has a rear and a front firing arc.  And only certain weapons can fire either forward, backward or broadside (usually your lasers for the latter one).  Some of your officers' abilities are affected by teh arcs as well, for instance my science officer couldn't drain enemy shields unless they were in the forward arc.  So space combat is far more tactical in STO than any other game.

You get a new ship class every 10 levels (or each time you rank up).  The new ships make room for more officers and weapon or console load-outs.  The neat innovation in STO is the use of officers that you can get.  Each officer has their own abilities and their own equipment that you can change out.  For space combat they have special abilities to help out in combat situations (i.e. my Science officer helps disable enemy shields and tactical officer gives a bonus to the number of photon torpedos per salvo for a brief time).  But then when you do away missions (ground combat) your officers can go with you so you go through it as a team.

Now, don't think that they're taking the multiplayer function out if they're giving you your own team.  The more friends you bring the lower the number of NPC's you take with you.  I prefer a human who thinks for themselves.  But it's maxed out at 5, unless you're doing a fleet action, which was disabled for beta but it's basically multiple ships and crews doing an objective.

Fleets are the game's form of guilds but I was too busy just trying different things out to worry about joining one.  And crafting wasn't in teh beta, either. 

This game is aimed at the more advanced player since the learnign curve is a bit steeper.  And don't expect to hit cap within a month unless you're a truly hardcore player who will play this religiously (then you may hit it in 2-3) but on average it should take a little while (remember beta xp is different than final xp because they want the player to hit beta cap and experience what is available during the beta).  Also, don't expect the game to hold your hand to get you through missions.  Again, the game is about exploring and what fun would it be to be given a direct path to everything.  One of the things they do is as you explore and travel through space you may get a random distress call for some help which in the end may net you a new officer, ship weapons or other reward, the possibilies are pretty deep.

Hopefully when they release more of the game in beta and lift the level cap I will experience it and be able to tell more about it but for the moment I give Star Trek Online an 8.5/10.   It's good for the advanced player and Star Trek fan but casual players who just want to be told everything and given a direct path may steer clear as this game requires you to think and explore a little.

As was pointed out to me by the first reply I forgot to add criticisms so I made a reply (third one down) with what I didn't like and wished they could have worked on.

One of the things I'm tired of nowadays is everyone comparing a game to the success of WoW.  Wow was a success because Blizzard commercialized and merchandised the crap out of it.  Blizzard makes some great games (Starcraft and Diablo) but WoW, when compared to other more old school MMO's is very shallow.  Ok, it's got crafting, raids, dungeons, pvp, and quests.  Big whoop, every MMO has them.  The reason WoW because so  popular was because it doesn't require a high end system, Warcraft is a known IP, and the game holds your hand the entire time and gives you free epics.  I can hop on WoW and see thousands of carbon copies of my character because it's so easy to level fast and obtain gear that honestly kills the game for me, WoW has yet to implement an original idea in the game.

Then I hop on EQ2 and, yeah, it has all the staples of an MMO that games like Ultima Online and EQ1 started but  there is vastly more content, the graphics are better to me (hey look, actually bump mapped textures).  But I can go work faction up, work on lore and legends quests, work on heroic quests to learn more about the lore.  I can decorate my house or guildhall with stuff I obtain in my travels.  The gear is better suited for a "fantasy game" versus 800 people wearing the same thing that apparently one person wore (did he have like 800 copies of the same epic chest made for him in his life?).

To the OP:  S.O.E. is currently working on Everquest Next and if they go the route they are going you may need a beastly system to run it.  fortuneatly for those of us with limited budgets they're working on streaming technology so all the hardware stuff is handled on their end (thus nullifying any need to upgrade).

To the WoW fanboys: Take anotehr look at your game WoW sucks.

Hey Guys,

I am currently playing the trial for SWG.  And so far, outside of running around Tattooine by myself, it is fun yet confusing.  Not saying that's a bad thing.  It's a new MMO to me and I pretty much expect to be confused at first.  The only things that really seem to annoy is more of the social aspect of my server.  I see maybe 8 people running around Mos Eissley and so I wonder what server has the highest population.  I couldn't really tell you which one I'm on right now.  I think it's something like Shadowclaw.  Anyway, I just had some questions that perhaps the more experienced SWG players could hopefully answer. 

Which server would be the best for starting out on as a new player?  I also noticed that you could either run around the space station you begin on for a bit or just go to Tattooine.  Which would you prefer?  I was also curious about communication/different chat channels.  I think that SWG is fun, even though from what I hear it's not as good as it's original back when it first released.  But I'm just really curious about it.  Thanks

-Raven

Well that's kind of rough for someone like me whose job is military and we get sent out a lot for short and long periods.  Kinda hating the legion pop cap because of that.