All Posts by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Kyleran

While the satire of the OP is going over some folks heads, it is possible to make a WOW clone by designing your game with these key elements.

PVE centric game play, with questing being the primary means of gaining experience.  Predefined classes  with levels (as opposed to skills), faction grinding, and raiding as the main end game.  Make the PVP meaningless (i.e. no player controlled areas, keeps, castles) or lacking in real rewards. 

I know WOW didn't invent any of these, but going forward too many games seem to be trying to follow this model due to its past financial success. (i.e. LotRO)

Of course, there are games that don't follow the formula (past, present and future) however they are few and far between, and frequently not well received. (i.e. PotBS)

Of course, we don't have to discard everything in the model to make a new, fun game, but lets hope AOC and WAR's upcoming releases buck the trend enough to make them different.

 

Its always been possible to make a fresh game using these elements.  The problem isn't with the possibilities of such, its that there are just too many players now who think that anything using ANY element of standard MMO's is now a WoW clone.

Its not just stupid, its insulting....particularly to those whom actually made the games that started it.  I've seen it on every board here.  There is very little in WoW at all that can be considered truly unique to the genre.  Outside of the actual lore....its all just refined versions of a system already in place. 

I personally hope more people DO take note of things WoW has done.  If nothing else, I'd like for future teams to put as much polish on their ideals as Blizzard has. 

Originally posted by k9wazere

Well, here's the rub. Saying "Blizzard is good at this" and "BioWare does this well" is not always a great argument.

 

For example, we all know that many Blizzard employees left and formed a new company. How much do we know about BioWare? For all I know, the people who made BG1 might be a totally different team to the people now calling themselves BioWare.

 

And let's not forget, the people who are really responsible for these games are the designers. There are many less designers than programmers, artists, marketing people, etc. You only need to change one or two of your lead designers, and bingo, your company has a completely different outlook.

 

The *only* way to judge a company is by its latest release. Just because they made some good games in the past, doesn't mean their next project will be any good. Personnel change, probably more often than we realise.

I find that this particular chain of thought works ONLY on the assumption that these companies let go of their key design team.  Given that ALL of Biowares games still follow a similar design structure...I'm not sure thats even possible.  In the very least the must be allowing their "leaving" designers to school new entries on the workings of that system.  All the same, even with so many former Blizzard designers moving on to other projects...WoW still managed to have the Blizzard appeal and was every bit as good as what we've come to expect from them.

It just seems like a bit much doomcalling and straw grabbing to presume that key design teams just up and leave profitable companies all the time.  Even worse to assume that this one, which is relatively new in the way of making a name for itself, would do so now.  The Blizzard team had been together for a decade or more.  Bioware has not had its major titles even a fraction of the time they have...I would actually be more likely to believe they still the core team.

Originally posted by Arcken

Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

Originally posted by k9wazere

Can I get another Whooooooooooooooooosh please?

 

 

WHOOSH

 

Some people think, but don't read.  Others read, but don't think.  In order to actually UNDERSTAND what information is being presented to you...one must READ and THINK at the same time.  It would also help to have a least an honors level high school grasp of English...so that you catch clever language use to present a falsity in a sarcastic way.

 

But I suppose we can't all be readers and thinkers.  VIVA LE RESISTANCE!

At one point the "thinkers" thought the world was flat. go figure.

My vote was always square.  I did fancy an octagon once.  But that was heresy and I beat myself plenty hard to make up for it.

Originally posted by Arcken

This always makes me want to puke. WoW is a clone of eq1. only easier. You guys should really stop giving WoW all this credit, every mmo todate is actually a rip off of UO and eq1 and perhaps a couple others. WoW is little more than a more popular knockoff. thats right knockoff. Stop insulting the "REAL" grandfathers of the genre with this nonsense by acting like WoW is anything but a copy itself.

WHOOOOOOSH

Yet another person who managed to read...but not think.  Did it hurt when the point flew past your head?

Originally posted by k9wazere

Can I get another Whooooooooooooooooosh please?

WHOOSH

Some people think, but don't read.  Others read, but don't think.  In order to actually UNDERSTAND what information is being presented to you...one must READ and THINK at the same time.  It would also help to have a least an honors level high school grasp of English...so that you catch clever language use to present a falsity in a sarcastic way.

But I suppose we can't all be readers and thinkers.  VIVA LE RESISTANCE!

Originally posted by ZsasZ

Seems like the two most popular WoW-related rants these days are 'WoW is dying' and the fact that every MMO ever created is a WoW clone. I've even seen that charge leveled against EVE Online, but I hope to god they were just joking. So, let's design an MMO that is in no way a WoW clone! We'll start off by listing the features we can't use;

• No fantasy settings.
• No multiple races.
• No multiple classes.
• No instanced areas.
• No non-instanced areas.
• No PVP.
• No PVE.
• No in-game chat.
• No Auction House.
• No raiding.
• No loot drops.
• No tiered gear.
• No monthly fee.
• No spells or abilities.
• No hotbar for above-mentioned spells and abilities.
• No talent, ability, or skill points.
• No character progression.
• No grinding.
• No quest-givers.
• No quests.

Okay. Now that we have all that, we take what's left and make a game! Without further ado, I give you, The Non-WoW-Clone-Game!

 

Nope, that's not a screenshot, that's the full game. Enjoy.

The point to all this is that there's a difference between similar themes and outright copyright infringement. There's only one game I'd actually consider a WoW clone, and that's Talisman Online. I'm guessing the only reason the Blizz lawyers haven't brought down thier almighty wrath is that they don't know abbout it.

Ya know...I almost suggested the Sims....

...until I realized they have skill points too.

WOW CLONE!  ALERT ALERT!

Originally posted by Kyleran

 

Originally posted by nariusseldon

 

---

Originally posted by Kyleran If any of this is true, (remember, this is a very sketchy rumor) then it does not bode well for the Bioware MMO. Why? Because I don't believe its possible to create an MMO that can be all things to all people. Attempts to target this to everyone from the super casual to the hardcore are bound to fail.
Yes, I know they are Bioware, but hey, I'm not nearly as impressed with them as other folks are, and I don't think they walk on water.

---

 

Well, they don't need to attract everyone ... just 10M will be enough. Bioware has a much better track record than most MMO companies out there so I am more than happy to give them a chance.

Plus, causal outnumbered hardcore probably by at least a factor of 10. WOW is a good example. And if you look at console gaming, it has also becoming more casual oriented.

 

I agree, they aren't going to be able to attract everyone.  If they go for the casual market, odds are its not going to have the game play  to satisfy gamers like myself who want something different than the current market offers.  Might still be a great game worth playing for a while, but in the end, just like WOW, won't hold my interest.

And again, I played a lot of Bioware SP titles, and they were fun, but nothing that I ever felt were legendary.  (unlike Blizzard, who's games I always enjoyed)

 

 

 

I disagree completely.  There are plenty of options that appeal to a casual market which are not the same "tried and true" level/class, class/level scheme that we have done to DEATH for years.  The ONLY requisite for a casual market is being able to accomplish something meaningful in a short amount of time.  That is all.  If anything, the Sandbox style MMO has plenty of options that have not yet been explored which could very EASILY accommodate this need without having to simply make the "grind" easier.

If anything, the KOTOR IP has already produced a plenty strong backbone to that end.  Freeform character building coupled with the ability to alter and improve weapons and armor.  If they take note of some of the successful concepts from Pre-NGE SWG and add it TO this backbone they will very easily have something powerful on their hands.

Plus, staging the game in an era BEFORE the movies gives them plenty of creative freedom when building story and atmosphere. 

As far as them having NEVER made an MMO before....well that is just the dumbest thing I have ever heard.  Every MMO company had to start somewhere, and all of the big ones started VERY strong.  EQ, UO, WOW....the list goes on.  These guys weren't churning out crap for years in the MMO market before finding gold.  They BEGAN with gold, and the reason is entirely due to them already being very strong game producers beforehand.  Bioware already knows how to make good games with great immersion and gameplay.  The transition is not as hard as some of you fools would make it out to be.  In fact...its little more than adding server upkeep and game maintenance to the mix.  It has very little to do with actually redefining how they make games.

I kind of agree with Gyrus.  Gold Farming is teh result of bad design.  People who suggest it causes inflation apparently haven't yet figured out that most video games don't actually have an economy.  IN a real economy, there is a FINITE amount of money in circulation.  If more is introduced into circulation, the value of each individual note goes down.

In a lot of these video games, money is CONSTANTLY being produced from thin air.  Inflation is going to happen regardless of Gold Farming because the entire system is forcing it by not limiting the amount of money inside it.  In a perfect world, the would be very finite amounts of "gold".  That would create a true economy, where this set amount got passed around from vendor to vendor and player to player.  Eventually, you'd find a situation very similar to the world we see now...where some people would be very well off and others would never be.

But as long as these games still introduce money into the system from thin air....ingame economy will just never exist.

The issue with "timesinks" is that the system behind it is too force people to do something they would rather NOT do in order to access the thing they WANT to do.

The trick is making everything in the game become something the player WANTS to do.  Even if that thing takes a long time, if they WANT to do it...it is no longer a timesink.  Less reliance on "levels" and "requirements" and more about individual success goes a long way.  Make the end result great, but also make every step along the way something fun to jump into.  Like....I notice one or two games making tradeskills into mini-games.  If the mini-game is fun then players are playing it for fun...the resources gained as a result are just a bonus.  In a player based economy those resources than can be used to fuel interaction between players.

The less overall fun a thing is...the less time needs to be put into it.  Something simple, like making that aspect of the game hands off, goes a long way.  DOMO does this well enough, their gathering is just as boring as anyone elses...but you can opt to just buy a bunch of gathering tools and just start the process and leave the PC and let it run.  Its a way to doing something boring without having to sit through it the whole time.  I rather like this system, assuming you are going to use a boring form of that gameplay.

Originally posted by r0hn

Originally posted by NagelFire

Sorry.. But isnt that a little.. erm.. Stupid?

How stupid is a post proclaiming to like WoW?  We are happy for you, but personally, I don't care.

Then perhaps you could enlighten us as to what the purpose of this sites forum even is...since it is EVIDENTLY not to discuss MMO's our how we enjoy them.

Or perhaps you are just the snarky little *&$#% and would rather spend your time making useless posts that are little more than flamebait and trolling, thus sullying what is otherwise a rather nice community.  Kudos to that, lord knows that method has proven QUITE effective for the means in the past.

Originally posted by tleytek

...Czzarre, i thought you were cool, that comment hurt dude.. not cool. as for Consensus... Im not surprised. and all i was trying to say is for those people who look for the different types of combat in a game.. heres one. I didnt want bad feedback, keep that to yourself.

See, even WITH a link...most people won't even click it if the initial information you present does not strike them.  I didn't, so I'm one of them.  Too many risks in random link clicking, and frankly some sites just take too long too load anyway. 

The other guy WAS kinda harsh though.  But thick skin and a clear mind will serve you far better and support your messages more than thin, weak skin and a troubled one.  Don't let stuff get ya down, roll with the punches and say what you gotta.  Most of us don't listen to too much flaming, and tend to take what people say with a grain of salt. 

:P  Perk up man, worse can always happen!

I'm very lucky.  My wife and I both play them, and play together.  Its just another way we spend time together. 

But I can understand why you will quit, and I support it.  Whats best for me, sadly, is not what is best for everyone.  Good luck, I'll pour some mead on the ground to commemorate your loss :P

Originally posted by VPellen

I can't say a lot here, if only because I strongly disagree; Anything I could say would be 95% opinion. Long story short, I don't believe that devs (or at least, smart devs) view the players as the enemy. Perhaps as a rampant force which is difficult to control, but the players are the life blood of an MMO. Without the players, there's no game. I believe devs can be misguided at times (no human is incapable of error), but certainly not malevolent.

For those of you who believe the devs have a hatred of the players, read this blog post. It was written by a veteran MMO community manager.

The error isn't malevolence...no one is truly suggesting deep seeded foaming hate for players lol.  The error is that they worry more about what they themselves think, and not enough about what we do.  I understand not all are like that, in fact Blizzard has proven to be the most amazing company in this regard.  They put alot more into their PvP development based off of player feedback.  They also tuned down the massive player requirement on Raids to allow smaller guilds to do stuff.  They also made the encounters take less time per step so that casual players could get in on it as well.  In short, they listen and try very hard.

But many others will commit gaming suicide by forcing their plans on a playerbase which is almost wholly against it.  Some even go so far as to suggest that they are in a better position to decide whats best, and that their players are just poorly informed and biased.  Player bias is quite real, but to ignore even the notion of trying to meet them in the middle is terrible.

Another thing that would make me happy is to see Devs actually use polls built into the logon to get player feed back before making changes...or even considering them.  I feel its time that players were more honestly involved in the direction these games take. 

  The game is appealing to me already.  I'm not so much a crafter...but I definitely enjoy the sandbox approach which will STILL find appeal to the normal grinder.  Foes still have loot, and you don't have to have a crafter.  Crafters just make better stuff, and that is how it SHOULD be.  Anything else makes crafting useless to anyone that isn't still low level.

I hope to see more of this.

  *shrug*

I would think WoW2 is a compliment.  If they can have as good a launch, UI, smooth gameplay, quests, and immersion then they stand to make heavy sales.  If they actually pull off the PvP they plan too, well....god help me I may be playing it then.  This coming from the guy who secretly makes fun of the game.

Being "like" WoW is a good ideal.  BEING WoW is a waste of time.  Every game needs to take some things from WoW from now on.  Except the auto-grouping stones..thing...god that ideal was horrible.  Lucky for us they allowed us full UI MOD freedom so people could make stuff like Call to Arms.  I think that is what it was called anyway.

Why are we using WoW as an insult these days?  Trust me, you don't want a game that goes away from EVERYTHING about WoW....its guaranteed to fail.  At least in the Classic MMO setting, anyway.  Definitely in the eyes of most suits, who now think a game has to have 1 million players to work.  Thank god some of them don't.

Originally posted by micaqi

I had the exact same post placed in the main Aeriagames forums. They told me that the status of the matter has been raised and will check into it. Hope they fix their mistake soon.

By the way GishGeron, I share the same beliefs as you do. A ban should not be taken lightly and i have played several games with no qualms into the matter till now. It really took me by surprise since all i did the day before that eventful day was owning in pvp.

But come on, "Billing fraud" ?

When you said i did something wrong and lied, that really hit me like a stone brick too cause i really did nothing. Until you have experienced the exact same thing Gish, you will never understand. To be accused of doing something you didn't do.

The thing you have to consider is that I come from a long line of MMO's, and most of them large by a massive margin.  I always frequent the forums of my games, and I've seen countless tales from people in very similar situations.  The most prevalent is WoW, because the CM's in WoW can actually find out case information and were quick to tell us about people who were deserving of it.

That history has taught me that most often, the player is just mad he did something wrong and got caught.  The first thing these players do is try to denounce wrongdoing and make the company look HORRIBLE in lieu of actually trying to enact change.  Since this is the first thing you've done, I'm left with little else to assume by.

I can understand being in that situation, it happens.  I think they guy below you gave a good example of how these things CAN happen, since those cases of fraud were enacted by two parties.  I would agree with them that both should get banned, but this isn't the case with you...as you've stated. 

Bottom line, its too easy to lie in written word.  There is no reason for anyone to think Ill of aeriagames because of this thread, and it was a tad re-active of you to try and make people hate them based on little more than your word.  The best course of action is just to speak to customer service and wait it out.  If they HAVE erred, I would imagine they will fix it and perhaps even gift you something to apologize. 

Best of luck, if you are in fact unjustly served.

Originally posted by micaqi

First of all, I wish to "thank you" for your warm  "welcome" into the community. Although this is a new account, I assure you, i have no other accounts in this forum nor do i plan to make another one

Second, i have done nothing at all. Accordng to the email, i have been banned for "billing fraud". Logic would demand you to think that i had access to some other persons credit card and bought points from the game however till date, i have made no such purchases. All i ask for them is to check their records but no such evidence was presented to me for peace of mind.

Third, after playing the game from beta stage till now, logic would also demand that i had spend a lot of time and effort playing the game therefore amounting to a high level character with good gear and as also builg a list of friends on the inside.

Anyways, thank you for your "understanding" in the matter as i believe you are only looking at the word "Ban" and not really reading the entire context.

First, Ive played almost all of their games and have never encountered an issue nor has anyone I have ever  played with.  In all the games I've played...a BAN is not issued lightly since they WANT players.  I'm of the belief that you did something wrong, and that you are lying to us here as a revenge tool because you got caught.

Second, assuming this IS accident, you are going to have to wait.  That game is getting flooded with players right now.  They did not expect what they have gotten I'm sure of it.  There are plenty more demands that matter and those don't include the tears of someone they feel has committed fraud.  If you truly did not, then I'm sure something will happen soon enough to fix it.  I seriously doubt that, however.  They have never shown me this kind of error before, and even the crappiest games are usually devoid of it.

Originally posted by Incoming7

dont forget the botters and the hackers also teh server traffic and overpriced cash shop.other than all that there are the ks'ers it has good graphics and a semi-decent pvp

 

All of that assumes you can log on.  I've spent a few hours trying to, and my father once spent a whole day trying and failing.

To be certain you can log on you must buy the gold ticket each month.  The cost for this item is the same for paying a monthly sub in a real game.

SRO is trash, and will always be trash.  It is most assuredly NOT a Free to Play game at this point.  Not unless you enjoy staring at the screen trying to get in for 5 hours, that is.