All Posts by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Housam

just wondering if people would think it would work or not...say if you die in an mmo...you charecter is dead for good :)

what do you guys think :) do you think it will be fun playing with such a big risk :)

That depends.

Will it work on a large success level?  No, never.  We lose stuff permanently in real life...most of us like to keep our game stuff.

Would it work on a very small scale level?  Sure, but only if there were powerful ways to avoid death AND options for people who didn't wanna lose stuff forever.

Meh, they used to call WoW Everquest lite. 

People use the industry leader as the industry standard when reviewing things.  Nothing is a WoW-clone per se....its more like everything is a "Classic MMO with Rollercoaster progression" clone.  The fact that WoW managed to make that marketable on a massive level is just fuel to the fire.

I don't blame them for making those comparisons though...its healthy.  Its gamers way of saying "hey look, we are tired of these overused mechanics.  Give us something really new".  I personally think that message is good for the industry.  I'm tired of the same old crap myself.

Originally posted by MMOman101

I am sure it is not my "pipes".  I have plenty of available bandwith.  It is more likely that when I connected to the server and authenticates as a "trail member" SOE put me on the lowest priority. 

Or your ISP is in a heavy traffic area.  Or the server could have been stormed by people doing the same thing as you.  Or the winter storms may have knocked out some of their service routes, forcing your provider to take the REALLLY long scenic route to get to them.

There are thousands of reasons for this kind of thing....and its one of the reasons that we HAVE 3rd party sites.  I don't see why you think you shouldn't HAVE to use them...they exist because it takes very little to bottleneck a connection and having them around gives the user more options when such a thing occurs.

Jesus, just use a 3rd party.  Its not like they steal your babies for doing it...its the same bloody thing.

Originally posted by Fion

 

 

Well thats a lot of assumptions.

1: Your assuming it's gonna have really hefty requirements. The requirements are said to be around Oblivion and that the engine is very flexible and the game can be played on a variety of systems. Maybe 2 years ago not many systems were up to Oblivion, but today, many are.

From all of the information I have gathered, that assumption is dead on.  The average PC owner is still using chipset cards, most of which are on systems from early 2000.  Those cards couldn't run oblivion if it wanted to.  Matter of fact...it can't run Bards Tale.  Those PC"s also have CPU speeds around the 2 mark.  So if you assume the average joe has either that, or barely over it, you can assume the game will either not play for them or lag like hell.  Lag = dead game in the water for an MMO.

I realize that we all want to think that everyone is a major PC gamer...and all have thousand dollar machines.  Most actual gamers have consoles...and the average american does not make tons of money.  They are grunt factory wokers who barely make bills.  The PC's they have are NOT up to snuff.  That is the entire reason WoW has 10 mil subs to begin with.

2: Thats a great big assumption. WoW doesn't need to loose 90% of it's population for another MMOG to become the most played. That other MMOG just has to attract a very large non-MMOG playing audience (which WoW has done to great affect) and either bring in the vast majority of it's player base from outside the genre, or draw a lot of older MMOG players who are looking for something different.

In the end I think Bioware is the company that will do that. I don't know if their MMOG will be more successful then WoWs, but it is extremely likely to pull folks from other genres into their game, and will hopefully be something a bit innovative and fresh to pull in the older MMOG gamers who are looking for something different. WoWs numbers may not even go down by much more then 1-5% for Biowares MMOG to surpass it. But of course... that in it self, is an assumption.

 As I said before...the average gamer is a console gamer.  WoW didn't gain 10 million actual MMO gamers...it gained 10 million pop culture followers.  While I'm sure these players WILL play other MMO's now, my point was that we can safely assume the current pool to be the near maximum player pool until PC tech becomes a lot cheaper.  That said, in order to beat WoW a game will now have to steal its players.  The reason the 90% figure is so important is that no MMO has ever lost more than 50% of its playerbase (except SWG, and they had to screw up reallllly bad).  So, basic research suggests that Blizzard will likely not loose over half its subs ever.  Even if it does...we can also safely assume that those players will be a mixed bag and will likely to go different games.

Now...if Bioware makes a stellar MMO with a console tie in....I can see how they may topple the numbers.  I notice so many people crying about using console tie ins...but at this point its the only way left to attract the rest of the gamer crowd.  The PC gamer limit has nearly been reached.

Oh and I agree. The theme, lore, backstory, innovational design (which Funcom is rather known for) and great depth, should make it a fantastic MMOG, and a worthy alternative to the generic MMOGs out now (I'm talking to you WoW and LotRO!) and in the near future (*cough*WAR*cough*) ;)

But.......this time its better! (tm)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Ahhh...I almost kept a straight face that time.  I'll work at it, next time I swear I won't laugh.

Originally posted by namelessbob

 

Originally posted by Drolkin

I still haven't found anything diffrent or better than WoW, too bad.

 

That statement right there prevents me from believing anything you have said. WoW is a terrible game and hellokittyonline is better than it. It is an instant gratification newb game, and obviously you fall into that.

<modedit>

Terrible games do not have Blizzards subs.  Second...all GAMES are instant gratification games.  Anyone whom disagrees with this obviously has never had to actually earn something in real life.  Assuming a person HAS earned real life success...and STILL thinks games are not about instant gratification....I can only suggest that these people play korean super grinders as nothing else will properly simulate actual work for them.

<modedit>

I'm just going to say two things.

#1 Heavy PC requirements = never gonna touch WoW's numbers.  Ever.  Like, never ever.  Hell, half those players can probably barely run THAT game.

#2 Even if they could, 5th grade math and entry level market research says even the bestest game ever made wouldn't kill WoW at this point.  99.9%......thats how much of its playerbase that game has to lose in order to even bat an eye.  Blizzard can lose 90% of its playerbase and still have industry leading subscribers numbers.

I won't bother explaining why its not going to lose 99% of its players.  I'll just assume we are all intelligent enough to figure that out on our own at this point.

I do hope the game is successful though.  I do so love that theme.

Originally posted by Evilsam

I simply must know the answers to these questions:

1.  What MMORPGs have you played and how long did you play them for?

EQOA - a year or so

WoW - 2 years or so

Flyff - a year or so

Silkroad - maybe a year...maybe a tad less

City of Hero/Villain - 4 or 5 months, with plans to resub soon

Hero Online - a month

Rappelz - a month, wish I had played more really

SWG - 2 or 3 months..i forget now.  I was about to come back because I really liked the game but then.....NGE happened. 

AO - a month, I really wanted to like it but the graphics were too dated and it made the game feel odd.  I may be going back though, they are improving that issue.

Fiesta - not even a month.  Fun game, not enough actual meat on the bone.

DOMO - Played through closed and most of open beta.  Love the game, still play it but I'm devoting time to better ventures.

Last Chaos - Played about 6 levels in.  If the game remained as fast and mob-a-licious as the intro dungeon...I'd still be there.  Like MMO Diablo...if that were the case.  Perhaps Blizzard will sate that need for me.

Shaiya - Played through closed beta and now part of open.  Really fun, lots of questing.  My wife and I enjoy that one.

Maple Story - A few hours.  Not enough for me to really sink my teeth into.

Dungeon Runners - About a month now...really like it.  I use it whenever I want to play a hack n slash type game.  Love it.

Pirates of teh Carribean - A day or so....apparently my graphics card has an...issue...with it.  Some random crashing when I get near water, or even think about water in general...or if the letter 'W' is used in a sentence.

UO - Long enough to realize I was never setting foot outside of a city.  Game was DOA for me.

Tibia - Long enough to realize that I was going to spend a whole lot of my time going back to some stupid bland hole in the ground to re-earn my mace so I could actually LEVEL that skill because I was going to be ganked and robbed about 10 times an hour.  Screw FFA PvP with looting.

 

 

2.  Which MMORPG was your favorite?

Its a tie.  WoW and CoX.  Both of those games really own, and both have their own particular awesome points that are very different from each other.  I will say that WoW is the only MMO I can ever hate and still go back to.  Thank the lord I don't hate CoX...but then with that kind of character creation its kinda hard to.

I would have said my favorite was SWG, but see the NGE sucked that fun out for me. 

 

3.  What did you like most about that MMORPG?

In WoW, the music.  I don't care what other people hate about it...Blizzard knew JUST when to cue the music, just when to fade it.  The little things like the sounds of little wind chimes or moving wooden parts were included.  The sound immersion in that game is second to NONE.

In CoX...the character creation, duh.  Like WoW and its sound...this games character creation is second to NONE...and likely never will be.

4.  What MMORPG are you looking forward to most?

 

Fallen Earth.  I never was one to get as hyped about AoC and WAR...I know a marketing drain when I see it.  I'm sure they will be good, but offer me little new to compare against WoW really.  I hunger for the skill sets of Pre-CU and the open sandbox world.

 

 

 

Originally posted by Plasuma!!!

Magic and technology? Isn't that was Final Fantasy does?

The setting has been done poorly so many times it's disgusting. Holes in lore everywhere, usually filled in with bullshit like time distortions or what have you.

I'll give $5 to anyone who can develop a game with compelling lore including both magic and technology.

 

Oooo, or better yet, magic that is technology.

So spell-casters have fire balls and ice bolts... and for some ridiculous reason they also have leather armor and wooden thatch-roof homes?! Aren't wizards supposed to be intelligent or something? Think of the potential for mass production and technological innovation with just those two spells!!

If magic existed in reality, we'd have probably hit outer space in the 10th century.

FF3 had the best implementation.  Purely normal tech (Not modern tech though) with a touch of magic infused-ness. 

They didn't try to so much combine the two in lore....they were separate things with, in fact, their own separate worlds.  Throw in a luck (and crazy, and ego-maniacal) smart villain dude who stumbles onto them and BAM you have a seemless combo. 

Perhaps I've just got a hard on for Magitek Battle Suits though.  God I loved that games story.  Dwarfs all the other FF games for sure.  Probably because they didn't try to reach too far with it.  None of that....FF8 madness.  Where people with gunswords and time loops...and walking military forts....and....ugghh.....

Originally posted by Scottc

Originally posted by EndDream

stuff thats in darkfall

Thread winner!

  Assuming you ignore the fact that there currently is no Darkfall, that is.  Which, of course, would then kind of dissolve the "stuff" which is desirable in it as well.  I love what they want to do with the game, don't get me wrong....but....its been nearly a decade and there still is no game.  I'm thinking its time to give up the ghost and chase a new pot of gold really.

Originally posted by Aethios

 

---

Originally posted by heerobya
Skill based advancement isn't the total end all answer to the noob vs. veteran debate.
Skill based advancement is really the exact same as levels.

---

 

This is like saying "money is really the exact same as currency."

Nobody was saying it isn't. That's because... it is the exact same as leveling. The difference is that in a class-based system, you're stuck with your class, and ONLY with your class. With a skill-based system, I can invest in healing and tanking and DPS as much (or as little) as I want to, and it won't affect my other abilities (short of a hard-cap on total levels).

Anyone who thinks skill-based advancement is not the same as leveling clearly doesn't understand either term.

You can call both "Empowering Progression".

In either case, the player moves ahead and becomes stronger than he was before. 

Originally posted by daarco

Lets cut to the chase here: You can choose to not PvP in a FFA PvP MMO. But you dont get it for free. Thats the whole point in a sandbox MMO. You can do whatever you want....but none will just give it to you.

The player that fails to understand this.....will in the end try to blame the game for them not having fun. And by doing that, only look very misinformed.

Example: you dont want to PvP, then stay out of dangerous places and always try to have friends around. And PvP dont just mean combat.....merchants must trade with other players...business PvP, then we have diplomatic and political PvP.....and those are just as fun as the combat PvP.

I have played Lineage 2, EVE and Shadowbane..and i have never had any trouble with PK.  Only when i tryed WoW did i get greifed and PKed.....so that shows MMOs without FFA PvP doesnt work. Some people cant handle the power of a "high level" character.

 

In every FFA PvP game I have ever played there was no such "dangerous" zone.  In every case I logged into a game where I IMMEDIATELY was hunted and killed by player after player until I realized I could never get ahead because I spent more time running to try and salvage some of the meager items I had instead of actually progressing.

You are a fool to suggest otherwise.  It does not take an army of gankers to ruin this game type...it takes only a handful.  Experience has shown me that, more often than not, FAR more than a handful participate in this.  They do so because it is easy, and it is profitable.  They are veteran players who got the luxury of progressing WITHOUT that problem, and are those whom do not wish to lose anything hunting other vets.  Instead they abuse the noobs for cheap easy loot because losing sucks.

Its a stupid ideal, and it ruins that game for anyone who does not play from the day the servers open.  Only one game has ever done it successfully and that game has ways to help noobs.

Originally posted by heerobya

Skill based advancement isn't the total end all answer to the noob vs. veteran debate.

Skill based advancement is really the exact same as levels.

Skill based combat, i.e. twitch mechanics do go a long way in helping to even the balance between noob and vet.

And I am going to put my post on the DF general forums once i can

 

Ah but the issue here is that in making it more "skill based" you are moving the game away from the MMORPG genre.  Even still, there is the matter of time spent using that skill and getting better with handling the mechanics of the game which noobs won't have.  Furthermore, the skill issue dies the moment any form of progression is present in the game at all.  Whether level based, or skill point based, progression ensures that BESIDES the natural use skill advantage that vets will have just from being more familiar with the mechanics...they will ALSO have a statistical lead.  It actually compounds the problem with more problems rather than alleviate either one.

Player loot = death for the game.  Anyone who truly wants to make a sandbox MMO that is Blockbuster at this point is going to accept that.  EVE spent years getting the players it has...and it ONLY has them because it finally developed the community to support it.  There is no need to loot the player to enjoy FFA PvP. 

That wasn't an attack at you, by the way.  I realize you say the same things I do in your blog.  I only mentioned it for anyone else reading.

Originally posted by Scottc

Player vs Player conflict and something meaningful to fight over.  Meaningful quests, not pointless kill tasks.  A complete lack of instancing.  Active participation in combat, not clicking on a monster, pressing a button, and watching my character attack while occasionally pressing a number key to activate a special ability.  A realistic economy.  A balance between weapons and the character that wields them, why must weapons make the player?  In most modern MMORPGs, you take away a characters armor and weapon and they're so weak anything can kill them.  Why can't the power be in the players statistics rather than his/her items?

What i'd really like to see is MMOFPSRPGs and a far more interactive world that can be shaped by the actions of players.  I want to see epic battles with thousands of players fighting for something.

 I can answer that for you.

 If the player is mighty without weapons (and there is a chance to lose weapons from either decay or PvP) then no one is going to invest in them and suffer potential loss.  It turns the game into a martial arts MMO...which isn't in itself a bad thing, but obviously self defeating to the point of having a game with weapons at all.

 Another thing, if the game is using a skill system...and said skills revolve around your weapon of choice...then there is no way to lose that weapon and not suffer for it.  Its that or trivialize the skills wasted on that weapon, if they mean so little you can function just as well without them then most players are going to take skills for unarmed combat instead as, even though they obviously won't add much, they will at least always HAVE those weapons.

  As for thousands of players fighting for something, you achieve that NOT through player loot but through global objectives.  City loot, for one, is an example of this.  If a certain 'guild' has built a city near a larger mine and has been storing its goods inside the cities own warehouses...then any team which can topple that city stands to not only take the goods they have stored, but also lay claim to that larger mine....effectively boosting their OWN personal production and making them a greater force to be reckoned with in the virtual world. 

 Notice how no where in that above statement did player looting contribute ANYTHING.  Amazingly enough, it still provided both a good reason to kill each other...and a wonderful reason for player made nations to war with each other.

Originally posted by Devildog1

 

I  agree!

 

And might I also add they put Hell Gate on here too and too many gamers it's not even an MMO by definition.

True, but at least HellGate is an actual...I dunno....GAME.  I'd actually place bets on the fact that WELL will release before Darkfall. 

Originally posted by Devildog1

Originally posted by 8hammer8

I remember when it first got brought up we suggested this, I believe Artys (sp?...the other post's OP) sent off information to the publisher to contact MMORPG.  I don't know if that ever got responded to.  From what I remember the ball was in W.E.L.L's court to get back to the site.

Oh you're talking about Atystrader. Let's hope they get back to the people here soon because I for one think this game deserves a spot on this site.

 I agree.

  Technically....if DARKFALL belongs on this site then any other "potential" project does too.  Heh, hell that might even warrant including the "nifty" ideas we get in the dev corner on the list as well. 

Originally posted by knas01

Originally posted by daarco

I liked the post. But i cant reply on the official DF forum.

But one thing im a bit worried about: soem players mix up FFA PvP with griefing, ganking and noob killing. And yes we see that alot in.....WoW.  In a FFA PvP MMO without classes and levels, there are no noobs. A new character can kill of a veteran character. In example woW, you have NO chance of defending yourself from a high level character. And that seems to be ok? But be able to defend.....thats not ok??

The carebear mind is truly puzzling.  (Great questioning there I must say Daarco.)

  ....

  Are you stupid?  Nothing he said was "carebear" at all you tool.  I do not care how "well done" Darkfall is about the power difference between vets and noobs.  Either there IS progression, or there isn't.  If there IS progression then those players whom have "progressed" will have a very distinct advantage.  It doesn't take an army of griefers to ruin the game, it takes only a handful.  New players are going to be wanting to get a handle on the mechanics of a new game...and griefers do nothing but ruin that learning moment for them.

  Unless Darkfall is nothing more THAN a PvP game anyway.  I mean, if its built like Fury then that rough learning curve would be okay.  But since there is so much more the new players have to learn and do than just kill people...its BAD.  Basically, truly FFA PvP games are only good for those whom start when the game releases.  Any new players are going to be cock blocked by the one or two tools that gank them nonstop and will tire of even trying.  His point was very valid for this.  I love PvP, more than anything.  I didn't pay UO for the very reason I mentioned.  I couldn't even walk out of town in that game, because each gate of every town was camped by gankers.

  FFA PvP honestly doesn't work.  The only reason EVE can do it now is because there are great community additions to HELP the new player.  Oh, and there are more secure zones as well.  EVE has a corp made JUST for new players to jump in and learn from.  It took years for them to build that kind of community too.  To top it all off...they had offline skill building.  So even if you really couldn't compete...if you just left it skill building offline while you did something else you could come back later and compete more easily.  IN games where all of the progression MUST be done at the PC, the new player is forced to endure the ganker cock block while all of the vets on the server got to progress on equal footing with their opponents.  Its BS, it will never appeal to anyone.  True FFA players already have invested in other FFA games that are light years ahead in their personal communities to support it.

Originally posted by AnlaShok

 

 

To be honest, I don't see how this solves anything. The community will always develop a standard currency. It can either be some rare item with no value to most of characters (Stones of Jordan in Diablo II) or something actually convertible to items of value (Singularity keys in AC). It might be possible to prevent a currency from forming, but it really wouldn't be easy. In the system you described, it could be some standard item which almost anyone can make from magic they have drained, or just value items based on how much they can drain from them, depending if draining and transmuting reduce the net amount of magic or not...but in both cases the amount of magic is effectively currency.

  You make good points.  For instance...if you put a total limit on gold, but have deep gathering and crafting resources (which, by nature, will have to have some form of "limitlessness") players could then begin using "ore" as gold instead....assigning a base value to it based on required use.

  One solution I've toyed with involves either the choke method, which forces NPC interaction and the use of the limited gold, or the decay method, which makes ALL things decay and thus causes a continuous rotation of available resources.  Gold can never truly be a decaying object, especially in games where items can be gained without spending a dime.  Items CAN decay, however, and with good implementation of solid crafting you can find a medium to it.

 Let me explain, in my current build I've toyed with a fantasy world ideal.  Each "source" for gathered materials has a limit on it which resets weekly (or monthly, I've yet to work the test on it).  That means that even though there is ESSENTIALLY an unlimited supply of gathered materials...the hard cap buys the game time for players to "decay" their items and need to use up the resources.  It functions similar to an RTS in that regard.

 As for hording, my solution is simple.  No banks.  Players will have but two options, personal storage or warehouse storage.  Warehouses must be built, and maintained.  They are also open for being destroyed.  That forces players whom wish to invest DEEPLY into storing things to be a part of the community large enough to have a city because, frankly, building a warehouse in the wilderness would be begging for thieves to rob you blind.  Since these cities require their own upkeep and community support, it helps to get people interacting with each other.

 My only remaining problem is getting the math exact enough to function and working the kinks out of server start up.  Naturally, open ended games with open economies need a crutch when starting up.  Something to get players by until they mature to that point.  I think the easiest way will be Basic starting cities....but I'd prefer GM controlled pre-existing communities.  That, however, would take alot of GM time and GM pay.  Would be quite hard for anyone starting out.