All Posts by Gishgeron

Originally posted by Diekfoo
I am sure that within one week more than 1 million copies will be sold and within one month, more than 2 million.

  I'll be the first to admit it if you prove me wrong...

  But thats a bet I'd take.  No way, no shape, no how.  Not with its high system requirements and complete LACK of asian interest (or even an asian marketing program).  2 million units sold is not gonna happen in one month.  They didn't even get 2 million beta apps...and that didn't cost anyone a dime.  Hell, it didn't even require them to have a top of the line PC to place an app.

Originally posted by boomerangx

 

The market is going to get split up a bit and you know what..? WoW will be the one to ultimately suffer and it will eventually die...why do you think blizzard has plans on making their big new MMO?

The domination is gonna die look around AoC is friggn huge atm , if you think bliz ain't scared you are crazy.... I have logged into my server a few times this week in WoW and my guild said there are tons of big raiding guilds breaking up/looking for more, so i assume it is having a big impact already and just from this game.  

 

This is what the guys down in the head office at blizz have been doing for the last 2 months

and it will only get worse as the time ticks and all the games release....

 

  Meh, I don't really think I agree with you at all.  I think that WoW burnout is going to affect this industry in an almost negative way.  Blizzard set a massive precedent in both game delivery AND genuine respect for its consumer.  The players which encompass this new and massive market (quite a bit of which are completely unreachable asian markets that even WoW was amazed to dominate) now have expectations that no game is likely to soon fill.  Even if these games deliver on content, they must also deliver on UI and ease of access AND play to be able to even get a second glance.

  AoC received such a massive "look" because its the new thing on the block.  GW had a massive player glance as well...but it didn't even put a dent in either Blizzards player base or its ability to continue to grow.  The same has held true for almost every other MMO on the market.  The big difference here is that none of those games have the hype either AoC or WAR have right now...and ALL of that is due to massive marketing pushes paid for by their respective teams.

  I think that each game could easily break into 200K subs...but the fact remains that WoW can afford to lose 50 games worth of such before even beginning to dip into an area which might force them to drop employees or close down.  Considering how many games have, thus far, attempted to do so and, not only FAILED, but also gave even more strength to the Blizzard war machine...I would say that its highly likely on a very small handful of games WILL achieve those numbers regardless of beta hype and interest.

  Remember, beta is free.  The money isn't IN box sales, its in being such a great game that you get multi-year long subscribers.  It doesn't matter one iota whether or not an actual 600,000 players show up to AoC.  All that matters is how many of those STAY.  I can tell you, beyond the shadow of a doubt, that there isn't nearly as large a market for this as we'd like to think.  I could be wrong, and I'm sure SOME game will prove me so.  I just don't think this game, with its massive requirements and tendency to replicate game elements that the WoW crew are ALREADY tired of, will even come close.  Even WAR will be lucky to get near the 400K marks.  I say this, and I LOVE the ideal of WAR.  Its not that these games aren't good enough...or that they even deserve it.  Its that this market has evolved a TON, and its players have evolved with it.

  We aren't talking baby steps...with the advent of WoW the vast majority of market standards grew leaps and bounds.  That kind of "boom" change in the trend gives the impression that it can happen again...and the player tendency reflects it.  Those moving from WoW need more...literally NEED something amazingly different to steal them away from what is already a perfected system.  Why jump into another Raid grind when you have the cream of the crop already?  Some of you may find WoW raids to be...crap...but I personally think that most players can agree that WoW advanced that area of the MMO exactly as it needed to be advanced. 

  All of this rant really just to say "Nah man...you got high hopes and they will never see fruition.  Nothing against any of these games...but thats just how it is"

Originally posted by arnaudaz

Alright,

I used to play WoW, and i work as a GM right now at a free to play MMO company.

I'm looking for a game that is basically WoW, except extremely team PVP based. The gameplay should hopefully be the same kind as WoW, and the team pvp should hopefully be one of the ultimate goals of the game.

 

 

What am i looking for?  (I'm willing to pay for the game, if its worth it lol)

  I think you should look into WAR (Warhammer) to sate your list of desires.  It appears to have similar gameplay as WoW with an RvR PvP focus (which is a bit larger in design than 'just' team based).  I cannot say whether or not the game will release and BE the game you are searching for...but their list of concepts and design direction are at least pointing in that direction.

  But, otherwise, there really are NO games out right now that play like WoW...AND focus almost completely on PvP.  The few which feel like WoW at all are massively focused into PvE, and their PvP (if any) is horribly imbalanced.

  If you are willing to let go of your gameplay requirements, then your options are larger.  Fury, GW, and even EVE are PvP focused games which revolve around teams (though EVE is more about large and powerful corporations).  None of those play like WoW at all, though.  GW is too pathed, and uses a point/click movement system.  Its slower as well, in combat.  Fury is a very small game...and it did not attract too many players when it hit shelves.  I'm not sure why that is, and I'm not going to spout off things I don't have the first clue about here to you.  Look into it for yourself and see what its about, then decide.

  EVE is a ruthless, cutthroat, cold, empty, beast of a PvP game.  I would advise against it unless you not only LOVE PvP...but love politics and political war games as well.  Oh, and you'll need to be a fan of pre-planned, strategic PvP instead of the quick action of WoW.

  Above all, watch WAR.  It was the first thing I thought of when I read over your wish list.

Originally posted by templarga

 

Notice the word  CHANCE. There ya go. Done and done.

  Thats an awful amount of value placed in semantics which don't even fit the structure of the sentence it was pulled from.  I could also say that buying a plane ticket to france offers you the 'chance' to see the Eiffle Tower...but I don't think you would read that as "Only the first 500 flyers get to go see it".  The way chance is used in that sentence denotes the same meaning as "opportunity" or "ability".   Yes, it still carries with it the mild notion that such a thing MAY not happen...but its done so in a way which indicates that this is not the norm.

  But, hell, we can argue semantics all day.  I'm quite good at it, really.  The trouble is that NONE of such discussion is going to remove the fact that someone lied to the retailers, and that they, by extension, lied to consumers.

Originally posted by nikoliath

 

 

 

 Funcom goofed up and created a situation where retailers have been lying to consumers in order to make a sale.  This is a BIG deal, and these retailers (having looked into some of the feedback myself since reading this) are more than upset over it.

So it is Funcom's fault that retailers were lying ( your words)?

 

Yes, retailers (especially multiple different ones) do not make the same story up in order to make sales.  Reputation is the very backbone of a successful retail operation, and being caught in a lie like this would destroy many of them.  Promos work by having the company send the desired retailer (such deals are made long in advance) a packet full of promo information for the retailer to use in making the sale.  If these retailers were telling people that a pre-order would get them early access, it is because the company told them it would.

 

As someone pointed out, Eidos are the publishers not Funcom. And quite frankly a big 2 fingers to all those who now feel it is beneath them to check the official source for factual info, you reap the benefits of your own lazyness.

 

  Its not laziness at all.  If you went to gamestop and bought FF7 after they told you DIRECTLY it would come with a mail in buster sword reward...you wouldn't question it once.  You certainly wouldn't go hunting about the net to be sure.  You'd take your game home, and wait for your big gnarly sword to come in the mail.  What on earth makes you think everyone should spend every waking moment double checking things?  The very basis for this argument is insane...because it SUPPORTS the notion that these people are nothing but crooks.  Here you are trying to prove that funcom is all super awesome...and THEN tell us we should double and even triple check every end of their business deals because they might be screwing us if we don't.

Now, your point about Eidos is probably more spot on.  Funcom are just a bunch of geeks writing code, Eidos are probably the ones in charge of all the PR and distribution work.  Our hate, if any, SHOULD be directed to them.  I applaud you for making this point, as its very important to be sure you are directing any problems you have at the right person.

 

Could it have been handled better? Yes. But it wasn't and it's pathetic to be crying like a 5 year old becuase early access is full.   I want it NOW NOW NOW or not at all.....

 

No one is crying because they want in NOW NOW NOW.  Its possible that some of us find this very dirty.   If it was suggested that every pre-order had the option to get in early...and such is NOT true, then we must face the reality that many customers just paid money for something that was not there.  I know MANY people who make such purchases for the early access...in fact MMO gaming supports the ideal of being first in line for everything.  Its important to a lot of people, and I'm sure it influenced their choice to pre-order.  That makes this whole matter theft...you do realize that right?

 

You are lying through your teeth;

Funcom did not charge for "open beta".

Don't play semantics with me, its a fight you've got no chance in.  I don't personally care HOW they handled their stupid beta...it was a beta and I didn't mind because I didn't want in.  The only facts that matter are

A:  It was an open beta

B:  You had to pay money to get in.

Everything beyond that really doesn't matter at all, now does it?  Worse, since beta is supposed to be a serious testing phase to help weed out potential code problems....Eidos (not funcom, see...I did listen to what you said) arranged a situation in which they not only didn't have to PAY for someone to perform a service for them, but even had the providers of that service pay for the right to GIVE it.  Its like having an Appraisal team pay YOU for the right to look over your house and tell you whats wrong with it.  Does that even make SENSE?

You do not purchase an Early Access "key" --- NO SUCH THING EXISTS

The £/$5 fee connected to Early Access buys you 10 EXTRA DAYS GAME TIME and covers the cost of the download.

The early access is only an option for pre-orders.  So, no, they aren't separate things at all.  They make carry separate costs (and that isn't even the problem here, no one cares about that matter other than to suggest it shows how greedy Eidos are) but they are tied to the same thing.  I digress, none of this is really the problem either

Only Funcom know why they limited early access, and they posted the reasons in the announcement.

 This is the problem.  They limited access, after sending out all of this information to retailers that suggests otherwise.  They secured pre-order money, at the cost of retailer reputation, through misinformation.  Was it intentional?  Probably not...I'm not going to say they did this on purpose.  It would be suicide to them to be THAT evil.  But they did it nonetheless, and they aren't even trying to make it right.

  Furthermore, there is no reason to limit access to willing buyers.  We can perform a checklist to see why!

  1:  Can the servers handle the projected players upon release?  Check!

  2:  Does the company like money?  Check!

  3:  Will there be substantially LESS players in the early access than in the projection for release? 

       Check!

  4:  As a result, could the game not handle MORE early access players?  Check!

  5:  Is it the right thing to do, given the miscommunication error?  Check!

  6:  Is there one logical reason to NOT do this?  ......ummm....no?  Not unless something is amiss.

  So, am I to just believe that this company is deliberately making a poor choice when they have the option to turn this communication error around, and not only rectify the matter publicly, but also turn it into a nice marketing boom for their product?

  In what way is any of that indicative of a good company?

Originally posted by SeroRamai

 

Originally posted by Zorvan

Originally posted by charlizd

I love how ppl can flame a game when it is in CB.... for crying out loud ppl if you dont want to find bugs and things that are not right yet then why the hell are you in CB? the game still has things that need to be implemented into it yet how about you wait till the game goes live then pass ya judgment. It is a Grind yes but unfortunately this is all you are going to get from any new MMO from now and untill some 1 can break tis mold and try something new please dont come here and say "IT IS JUST ANOTHER L2 ASIAN GRIND FEST" WHat in the hell were you expecting?of course it is gonna be a grind that is what all MMO's are if you dont want to grind then maybe you should be playing Mario OR Sonic or something MMORPG'S=Grind with Quest thrown in to break the minotony.

Well thats my Whinge have fun.

The game already exist, this is just a port. If it was a brand new game, it would deserve a little credit. It is not a brand new game, so it doesn't.

Does the "Pre-Ported" game exist in the US? No? So this is our first time playing it? Jeese.

 

Port's are a thing to be loved, because THEY DONT F*CKING EXIST IN THE US. Who gives a d@mn if another place made it. You think Final Fantasy was made in the US?

  I'm not saying the OP has any validity...but your statement is way off base.  A port means that the game has already been through testing phases and released in another country.  The engine, the code, and basically everything that makes the game tick is already in place and not going to be changed.  The only real thing that happens during a port is some translation, and a movement of the code from servers overseas to servers over here.

  His point was that this isn't a real beta.  This isn't a new game, they aren't developing the code in this phase.  The game is already done, and being marketed.  All this is doing is stress testing the NEW servers that the game is being ported to, in an effort to make sure that the host of the game over here has hardware which can handle the potential load.

  Again, they aren't making code changes.  They aren't bug testing or bug fixing really.  When a game is being ported, and does an open beta, its for server stress purposes only.

  If your friends were deep EQ fans...then don't worry.  They'll be back, and quickly.  AoC is way too new to hold players that are used to as much content as they were getting here.  I figure AoC will see most of its players handed off from either WoW or Vanguard...people who wanted little more than a pretty game and can't get one.

  People tend to go to EQ for substance, more lengthy and group oriented stuff.  Two different mindsets entirely, trust me.  No matter how AoC turns out, its not gonna have as much content for that crowd...and its not likely to draw them in as easily either.

Originally posted by Ascension08

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by BigMango

 

Originally posted by templarga

Actually the are honoring the pre-order benefits. This is what you and all the other people don't understand. The pre-order is being honored - it was a few items/mount and to reserve a copy of the game. The early access was something completely independent of the pre-order and required another step to go online and purchase it. 

 

No the early access is not independent. Retailers, the game publisher (and even Funcom said so).

Read this thread: AoC publisher confirms early access for all preorders

It was an independent step. In other words, you have to pay additional dollars/euros for the early access. Even the press release says that. It means it was AN INDEPENDENT TRANSACTION. You are charged separately for it. So when you signed-up for the charge (that the press release clearly states will happen), it makes it independent of the pre-order. The pre-order gives you the chance to do it. That is all.

So only if you ordered the pre-order and completed a totally seperate transaction could you get a chance to get in early? And if you didn't order the pre-order, it's not even available to you? That's kinda lame. To me anyways. If you want to look at everything so far, it does seem like Funcom's a bit money hungry. /shrug

  Ding Ding Ding!

  Seriously, I read everything thats been posted...and until this thread I was fenced about this issue and didn't get involved.  After reading what Funcom sent out...I have changed my mind.  First, you pay for open beta.  Then, you pay for a pre-order AND pay for the key to get early access (even though the mails sent out SPECIFICALLY said that it came with every pre-order.  It never once stated a limit on numbers.  Even if it HAD stated so, a limit on numbers of PAYING and PREORDERING players is asinine.  What in the hell are they hiding at this point?)

  Is it REALLY too much to just NOT hardcap the early access?  Really?  I mean, for gods sake..its 3 bloody days before release.  If people are having to PAY for it (5 buckaroos) why would ANY company in its right mind NOT accept as many $5 bills as people are willing to give them?  It doesn't make sense, its impolite business practice at BEST, and their communication is shady AND poor.  That we should expect players to flock to a website to receive ALL of the accurate information (when, in fact, they send this kind of crap to the retailers before DOING a promo...I've worked in retail PLENTY long enough to know how this system is.  If all the retailers made this "mistake" then its not them...its funcom) is ludicrous, and that any of you attack people who find this type of action 'ok' is downright pathetic.

  Funcom has done nothing but make on nasty mistake after another with this WHOLE thing.  Jesus, I'm not even a big flamer here and I can see it.  Why do you guys support this?  They directly lied to retailers...I don't CARE if they told the truth on their websites or NOT.  These retailers are sent promo packages which detail every end of the promo.  They are then set out to suggestive sale EVERY LAST ONE of the promos to customers based on this information.  Funcom goofed up and created a situation where retailers have been lying to consumers in order to make a sale.  This is a BIG deal, and these retailers (having looked into some of the feedback myself since reading this) are more than upset over it.

Originally posted by BigMango

 

Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

 

  I'm glad someone produced something solid on this matter.  I was on the fence with this issue until JUST now.  This is just downright shady, and indicative of something being amiss in-so-far as their server stability is concerned once the masses hit the scene.

 

 

On the official forums Funcom has been closing theads by the dozens, never even replying to them.

Here is a thread on the official forums with a lot of information on this scam:

AoC publisher confirms early access for all preorders

 

 

  Reading that thread made me sick.  "Its just a game?"  No, its not...its viral and its a scam.  I'm POSITIVE many people bought the pre-order for the early access.  Especially if the retailers were "suggestive selling" them with it...as ANY retailer would do.  There is NO reason Funcom cannot allow every pre-order to get access...there is NO reason to hardcap it at all.  NONE.  If they didn't realize the turn-out would be so high...then they should have done the right thing and adjusted the early access to compensate.

  The way these "successful" AoC players speak on that forum make me sick enough that I wouldn't bother with this game even if I LOVED everything about it.  This community is trash, by and far, above anything I have ever seen in my life.

  Agreed and congratulations!  I visit this site, not only daily, but easily a handful of times a day.  It has become my most visited spot on the internet entirely.  As I'm very fickle, this is quite the accomplishment really. 

  Good job, and keep up the good work.

Originally posted by mike470

Poor decision by Sony, although I don't mind, cause I was not planning on playing this game anyway.

My problem is that other companies may start to follow after Sony.  When they see big time companies like Sony doing this stuff, they are (in a way) encouraging other companies to go with a cash market.  More respectable companies & games will think of doing this, instead of making subscriptions.  Also, if this becomes a success, more people will be encouraged to do it.

 You just know that this market will give unfair advantages to players.... Don't give in, people!

  I have to disagree, there are many ways to use item malls and RMT in a way which does not imbalance the game at all.  I'm sorry that so many DO use it in such a way...they do so because its more profitable to a small company.  But there are ways to utilize such a system in a fair and just manner.

Originally posted by BigMango

Yes, Funcom has been flat out lying to customers.

They have said in their newsletter #15 that every one who preorders gets early access. They have also conirmed this in a press release:

www.funcom.com/wsp/funcom/frontend.cgi

 

Even the game PUBLISHER Eidos has confirmed to many retailers that all of the preorder keys have early access, this was just 2 days ago:

www.amazon.co.uk/gp/forum/cd/discussion.html/ref=cm_cd_et_md_pl

 

Nice marketing scam to sell more preorders.

Funcom is a screwy company. And the fanbois are as usually supporting this, of course they are happy with their keys.

 

  I'm glad someone produced something solid on this matter.  I was on the fence with this issue until JUST now.  This is just downright shady, and indicative of something being amiss in-so-far as their server stability is concerned once the masses hit the scene.

Originally posted by DragonOak

 

Originally posted by Obee

 

Originally posted by DragonOak

Yet Vivendi Revenue is down 24.1 percent!!!!!  So nice it was they opened the Chinese Market, now wasn't it?  Lower revenue = Lower fees from the Chinese market?  You be the judge.

www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/vivendi-games-q1-revenue-down-24-1-per-cent

The lower revenue is because Q12007 included the release of the Burning Crusade expansion and Q12008 had nothing comparable.

 

 

 

That would be true if subscribers had NOT increased.  But since it had a 2 million subscriber increase it should have offset the revenue generated last year by maybe a decrease of 10 percent, but no way in hell should it represent a drop by 24 percent.

  You do realize that you linked Vivendi Revenue right?  I saw that you SAID you did...but your statement doesn't make sense.

  Blizzard does not make up 100% of Vivendi's markets.  Not even close, actually.  It DOES make them a lot of money...but they are a big company with big arms.  They have investments in MANY markets...not just the MMO one.  If they put 25% of their investment potential in a meat industry, and it flopped, that would produce similar results to the figures you quoted us without having one thing to do with MMO's at all.

  Tell me you understand this...because right now I'm thinking you look rather silly.

Originally posted by declaredemer

I have played too many MMORPGs.  I have spent thousands of dollars for MMORPG to 1) play games, 2) finance multiple accounts, 3) purchase items/gold online, 4) upgrade my PC(s), and 5) other.

 

 

Why are MMORPGS bad?  Unlike, say, GTA IV, I do not feel free in them - I feel forced. 

• Developers force us to complete their so-called quests to 1) obtain gear, 2) level-up, and 3) progress in the game. Why can't I progress in my own way? 
• Our end-game options seems to be 1) raid or 2) PvP.  Why can't I do more solo, group, and other activities such as building a town, continued character-customization/development, and much more?

 

  I can answer your question there.  The reason you feel forced is because these games are all strictly "gear based progression" games.  GTA is not...in fact, there is no true dividing factor between your character when you begin and your character when you end.  The entire progression of the game is locked in story...or personal goals.  You feel 'free' because you can choose whatever personal goals you want to for that day, and nothing prevents you from doing so.  Gear-progression games destroy personal progression by forcing gear upgrade requirements into every action.  For example:  Should you wake up today and decide that your personal goal in say...WoW, was to go into the desert and lay waste to the marauders there....your character would have to first have appropriate gear AND level to even begin the walk there, essentially.

  The very elements we cling to in this genre are the same things which prevent its own freedom.  Take that as you will.  I blame the developers for not trying to incorporate more of these single player and console game elements into their virtual worlds.  I don't meant to say "Make MMO's single player console games"....I mean that some of those types of games have REALLY good elements which would translate well into this genre, and that we've all been ignoring them because we have some idiot sense of elitism about how much better we are than single player games.

  I can see a troll.

  He isn't a good one either.

Originally posted by mehhem

Well Funcom does own those boards.  Its not free speech.. As such they can do what they want. 

  Its not even a matter of free speech, actually.  You are allowed to talk about the way you feel there...you just aren't allowed to make a thread about it when there are already 10 million others ones present.  Its called space control...and really it makes sense.  When I go to a forum, and wish to read about and discuss a game, I like to be able to openly observe many topics at once.  Having a forum flooded with the same topic just bores me, and I'm sure I am not alone.

  I also hate having to repeat myself 800 times to 800 people who couldn't be arsed to join the discussion already present in another thread.  I only have the patience to say "I hate you" a handful of times before it gets old.

  DISCLAIMER:  This post made by someone who actually dislikes AoC and everything about its design structure.

  I can be rather unbiased when I wish to be.

Originally posted by komarr

Originally posted by Gishgeron

 

Originally posted by komarr

Complaints are only constructive when they are accurate and preferrably accompanied by some suggestion to correct the comlpaint.

 

  I can bite into the "accurate" thing...but the suggestion thing much less so.  I mean, apply this logical to programming complaints.  Do you REALLY want players unfamiliar with code to be offering programming suggestions to trained professionals?  I rather not even HEAR their blather.  I barely can stand my own.

  So, we are gonna remove that part of, what is otherwise, a very good point.

  Complaints are only constructive when they are accurate.  I would add "and provide solid wording and open discussion in lieu of flaming" as well.

I guess when I said "suggestion" I was thinking less about programming and more about resultssuch as (This lvl 30 mob oneshotted my lvl 50 tank, can you make it less overpowering?)  Ultimately I can live without the suggestion part.  I was just thinking about how a troll's head would explode if