Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Gdemami

 

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Originally posted by Aerowyn

strange Rift didn't have this issue at launch and when im talking basic stuff i mean stuff most F2P games have not to mention the big patches they are releasing a lot is nothing more than fixing or reworking completely broken stuff already in the game

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Well, Rift also have a quality of F2P content too so no wonder they got resources to put some "basic features" in.

Or are you seriously implying that cautiously crafted, well narrated and designed world of SWTOR is somehow comparable to utter most generic content provided in Rift? I hope not...

actually even more so because overall i find Rift to be 100x the MMO swtor is.. IPs do amazing things for sales and blind following.. all my opinion of course

Rift I thought had potentional at first.. but I and friends quickly found out our prepaid 6 month subscription was 3 months too long..  We quickly bored from the 1-50 content after the first toon.. and I have NO desire to play the end game raid hamster wheel game.. 

Both games IMO are failed attempts to recreate the "WoW" feel..   Maybe both should look outside the box and do something original..  Rift did too little with rifts.. and TOR spent too much focus on voice storylines... oh well :(

Honestly..  I hope never.. 

SWG could of been a great MMO if the devs actually listened to the playerbase.. and fixed some of the game breaking issues... It was TOO sandbox without any rules....  For crying out loud.. Using "med" size homes as WALLS for your factional city was a prime example..

Then we are given SWTOR that is so linear, it plays as a single player RPG game like the ones played on Xbox..  I think as long as you have the strong IP as Star Wars has, it allows the devs to get lazy for the quick money grab.. CUZ 80% of the star wars fan base will buy the game because of the title alone..  tisk tisk

Originally posted by Quirhid

Originally posted by Rydeson

Those were the good ole days..  Back 10 years ago, or so, GM's were social ambassidors of the game, and were almost always helpful.. Back then the community was smaller and more personal.. It was almost a hands on approach.... But today.. MMO's are big business and the "mom and pop" way of doing business is no longer valid..  So sad..  We are stuck with walmart mmo's  for now..  lol

It has nothing to do with any type of walmart mentality or the like. Its to do with size and scalability.

Issues that were not worth fixing other ways were handled by GMs. As the playerbase grew, those same problems had to be finally dealt without GMs because you simply can't afford to have as many GMs per player as when MMOs were small.

So the bigger the game is, the better designed/implemented the game has to be so that you wouldn't need huge amounts of GMs fixing and helping people. Imagine 12 million people regularly requesting GM help because they are stuck or that their quest didn't trigger. The GM team would have to be HUGE.

You might feel that way.. However my experience says otherwise..  Games such as EQ and SWG to name ones I have first hand experience with, the GM's were NOT on the payroll.. They were nothing more then fellow player volunteers.. As for the size of the games..  It really doesn't matter all that much..  I actually liked what SWG did with profession advisors, or whatever their official titles was..   As for my Walmart comment, it was an example of how impersonal the servers and games have become.. With games today, we are all nothing more then an account number to the company.. 

I miss the old mom & pop feel of gaming, and / or business.. 

Those were the good ole days..  Back 10 years ago, or so, GM's were social ambassidors of the game, and were almost always helpful.. Back then the community was smaller and more personal.. It was almost a hands on approach.... But today.. MMO's are big business and the "mom and pop" way of doing business is no longer valid..  So sad..  We are stuck with walmart mmo's  for now..  lol

This was a fun decision..  I think for me.. I'd go with Misty Thicket .. I'd have Rivervale right there..  BUT.. I do like the 3 zones of Freeport tho..

Originally posted by PyrateLV

Originally posted by Teilo

If the horse is dead, why do you insist on beating it?

 

Over and over.

Tenderizes the meat

BEST ANSWER EVER... +5

I'm surprised they didn't have some type of rolling starts based on time zones..

I'm not in full agreement with the OP about stations kiling TOR..  However,  I am in agreement there is no true reason or use to have them there.. Why have capital cities if you aren't going to use them to the fullest..  You can tell that stations were a last minute thought, and it comes off feeling that way too..  Not a game breaker, but they are on the list of reason why I cancelled..

For me.. I have to say the last time I actually felt a rush from playing was EQ1.. Nothing has come close since..  I remember all the times I was running for my life, getting wacked, stunned, spun around dazed, clicking on doors, drowning.. etc etc.  There were many times I actually felt a physical response to my enviroment..

Today's games since WoW feel so linear and pre-programmed.. It's like knit one, purl two.. I really never feel in danger, or loss..

Originally posted by namelessbob

Forcing 24 other people to adapt and change the way they play along with making the raid leaders and officers completely change their leading style for a single individual who can't cut it? I mean come on he needed to be kicked from the guild. The guild leader did nothing wrong but trim the fat. I sympathize for the guy and his accident, but the world goes on and if you can't adapt to your new disability then you don't deserve to be spoon fed on WoW. There is a lot that the article misses when it comes to the progression and style of the guild. If the guild was casual friendly not raiding and just a social guild yeah the guy was an ass. The guild however was a raiding guild and the player was unable to do what was asked of him over voice communication. That is his fault and no one but his.

 

This isn't a WoW player base issue. This is a social parallel that I think a lot of people here are missing. Being deaf is a disability and while yes you can overcome it in many ways it is not on society to adapt and change just for you. Rise up and become a stronger individual and show the world that you are not your disability. Think he called up the phone service to yell at them when he realized that people were calling him and it wasn't close captioned?

^^^  This is why I canceled my sub.. Perfect example of WoW's community

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Rydeson

     (snip)

How exactly is the community "competing againt themselves"?  How does any other guild fighting the same exact boss as me have any impact on my gameplay?  There is no competition and no one wins a trophy at the end of the night.  The last time I checked every group fighting in a raid or dungeon is fighting against the game and not each other.  Tossing out buzzwords doesn't make your point very strong.  Really? You don't see it? People competing to get spots in raids is rampid.. It's all about your toon being better then the next guy to get that slot in the 10 or 25 man.. To deny that is disingenuous..

How does having a contested zone foster community working together.  How many times have we seen this type of gameplay do the exact opposite of what you suggest it will do?  Contested content turns games into community vs community as they compete against each other for the limited content.  This combined with the point above it really demonstrates how out of touch with the subject you really are. Ahhh I think you missed some keywords my friend :)  I said "PvE" contested.. NOT PvP.. HUGE difference.. There is no dynamic PvE zones in WoW.. Closest thing to explain what PvE contested is what GW2 has planned.. The NPC's try to take over the zone.. It's your job as the community to stop it.... Have fun..  A constant tug of war of players vs. NPC's zonewide..

So wows endgame is niche and doesn't appeal to "many" people?  Isn't that a rather absurd statement to make about a game that if 100x larger than most of its competitors? More selective nit picking.. :)  I said wow's esporting is niche.. NICHE doesnt' mean small or large.. FYI.. It means it is narrow in scope..  Perhaps you might want to read the definition of niche.. Niche = a distictive segment of the market.. Incase you didnt' feel like googling it..

People need to stop looking to blizzard to innovate and redesign the core concepts of wow.  That is what the competition should be doing right now and I understand how frustrating is is that they are not.  However, it would be beyond stupid to completely redesign a product that is dominating the market and has no real competition.  What possible argument could be made to suggest that would make good business sense? Really.. Blizzard has redefined the game more times then Clinton had interns..  Does Cataclsym REVAMPING of 1-60 and respecing talents in direct contradiction your statement.. YEP, it sure is..  Raids went from core 40 man to 10.. etc etc.. There are numerous examples of WoW redesigning itself..

I'm certain blizzard is content to not redesign wow into some everquest hack just to win back you and "many" of your friends.  Really, world of warcraft is doing just fine without you and as long as the competition keeps turning out piles of garbage there is a very high chance that "many" of your friends will simply return to wow as they have been for years. But they just did with Cataclysm.. LOL  ty for your opinion :)

Have a great day :)  toodles

     Thing is.. most raid bosses are designed and tailored for the use of addons.. Just many casual players that raid here and there never use those addons, so the odds are stacked against them.. I've seen dozens of "raid" videos on youtube or any other sourse and NEVER saw a successful raid that didnt' use addons...  Your so called professional raiders are only as successful because of those addons.. take them away and I bet 90% would FAIL.. 

Originally posted by JLVDB

Originally posted by Rydeson

     Doesnt' Bliz realize that esporting is niche.. Look at Starcraft II.. Sold a ton of boxes, however once everyone completed the story and end game esporting was all that was left, 1/2 the buying customers quit playing it.. Why?  maybe cause esporting doesn't appeal to many on a 24/7 basis.. Now if Blizzard would come up with "dynamic" zones, and social PvE end gaming, I might give them another look

The only games that are in the top 10 of PC games played on Xfire are all games about PvP and on line multiplayer.  True.. based on Xfire, which doesn't say much.. because Xfire is very niche themselves.. There are plenty of console games and PC games played that aren't shown on Xfire.. Xfire is voluntary, and it's primary audience is the PvP gengre for the most part..

The fact that WC3 is still very high in replay value is because it has that multiplayer competition value. Just look at the COD series.

Wow had today 68.3 % market in the MMO field (free to play ones included); http://www.xfire.com/genre/mmo/massively_multiplayer_online/

So I dare you: who in the fuck would question their replay value? Who's replay value?  WoW? 

I remember they had around 60% after Wotlk. So they must be doing something right. Right ?

And watch that graph: No 70% drop in its first month like the last 5 year launches either.

Right ?

So you think esporting is a majority genre?  I'm not following you.. Even if you want to use Xfire numbers, WoW had a hard time going over 200k.. But soon as Cat came out it peaked to close to 350K.. almost a 75% increase in play time.. That wasn't new customers, that was expansion spark, which will die off in months to come once the PvE play because boring again..WoW hasn't gone over 300k in a couple weeks.. And this was during Xmas holiday when playtime is going to be it's highest..

But I wouldn't put much faith in Xfire.. if you ever looked at the "live" feeds, it's hardly ever PvE play.. it's basically PvP.. Xfire players are primary PvP genre, so why isn't it surprising that most of the top games listed are PvP Esport games?   That would be like analizing which foods do college students eat most.. I suspect it would be fast food.. and for good reason..

 

 

 

Originally posted by Dril

Originally posted by Rydeson

    So you repeat the same dungeon over and over, until the next one opens up?  So basically, you're saying is that if you choose to be a group player from 1-60, only 15% of the game applies to you?  This also means you are stuck on the "loot" drop table for that dungeon so your character is actually gimping himself, and you sacrifice any ability to harvest mats for crafting for the most part.. I would think a 4 rating would be more accurate..

Dungeon loot is better than quest loot, and any green drops you get in the dungeon you can wear as well. So, no, you don't gimp yourself.  Really?  Let me check that loot table again in Deadmines on what armor a Warrior can wear.. and I'll check to on which herbs I can harvest too.. LOL  Then maybe, the cloth casting class can gear up in Deadmines too..  The facts still remain that dungeon loot while leveling is NOT your primary way of gearing, it only suppliments..

A lot of dungeons have mats in them, and a fair few mobs can be harvested (skinning obviously, some elementals for mining and herbalism.) So, yeah, no.  Which dungeons have herbalism nodes? Can you pick minerals in Stockade? SFK?  Like I said, dungeons are about 15% of the game, lets be honest and not try to portray that is' a majority of the game leveling from 1-60.. 

BTW.. make sure to NOT include Quest rewards as part of the dungeon loot table, since those come after you do the PvE questlines first.. Remember we are excluding PvE questing outside the dungeons.. :)  BTW.. can you do deamines at 1st level?

TY for the trailer.. The graphics look great.. Lets hope the content within the game is equal to the task.. I hate to buy a brand new house that has curb appeal, but end up with a lemon once you walk inside..

SWG - pre CU easily IMO

However, there were some major issues that forced me to call it quits before NGE come about, which Warmaker touched on, Some I agree with, some I don't..

1. As Warmaker said, the skill abilities was excellent.. some parts needed tweaking tho, which still to this day baffles why they couldn't iron things out.. It really isn't that difficult..
2. Crafting was great and core to the player economy.. However, the skill system hurt part time crafters.. In crafting it was pretty much all or nothing approach..  If you weren't a master with all the bonus points it was impossible to make anything that could be sold in the market..  IMO, allow "masters" a monopoly on consumer products hurt the game, especially since it promoted people to mix and play with skill points..
3. TEF flagging was a huge issues to me.. In fact it was one of the primary issues why I quit playing.. I wanted to get involved in the Reb vs Imp faction strife, but since I was master musican, and novice CH/pistol I was a sitting duck to TEF campers..     /quit faction war
4. Lack of PvE driven content that wasn't bugged.. I just became sick and tired of accepting a mission, run out to waypoint and the target was bugged in one form or another.. In my opinion most of the bugs were because they were random spawn points, which always ended up to close to a harvester or house..  /delete mission :( start over
5. I know this is going to come as a major blow.. BUT I think player cities caused more harm then good.. I think the programming and game would of been better off not allowing players to plop down a house or cities whereever they feel..

1. What are all the facts with JFK?
2. Why did SWG fail?
3. Are their UFO's in Area 51? 

Originally posted by Axehilt

Originally posted by Rydeson

     So how much of a challenge is leveling in WoW when there are 4 of you grouped up?.. Does the 4 person actually get a chance to HIT the mob before it's dead?  Then these questlines I keep hearing about and phasing.. What if ya'll don't always play together at the same time.. Are there problems in grouping?  Really..  on a scale of 1 to 10 (1 being horrible) how group friendly and "CHALLENGING" is WoW in leveling 1-80?.. 

With 4 people, you wouldn't quest.  You'd dungeon crawl.  At that point, the tank controls the rate of mob pulling (and thus the challenge -- and also the rate of advancement.) 

So it's relatively dynamic.  If you want more challenge, you pull more/faster, and you get more XP/loot faster.  You get exactly as much challenge as the group wants (or is capable of.)

I suppose I'd give it a 6 (2 points deducted for no difficulty options (heroics) while leveling; 2 points deducted for no sidekick system so that friends can still group when there's a 4+ level difference.)

    So you repeat the same dungeon over and over, until the next one opens up?  So basically, you're saying is that if you choose to be a group player from 1-60, only 15% of the game applies to you?  This also means you are stuck on the "loot" drop table for that dungeon so your character is actually gimping himself, and you sacrifice any ability to harvest mats for crafting for the most part.. I would think a 4 rating would be more accurate..

Originally posted by arenasb

Originally posted by Lathander81

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by SuperXero89

(snip)

(snip)

 I agree its cool to be casual but it doesn't make sense to raid if you want to be casual. So enjoy the game's content and if you want to see endgame content prepare to learn your class.

If you don't raid, there is no reason to play this game.

     Excellent observation.. I agree 110%.. The end game is basically esport "raiding" or "arena"..  Rather it's PvE or PvP, the focus is the community competing against themselves.. I always thought PvE mmo meant the community vs "the game", not each other.. Instead of revamping all the 1-60 zones.. Why not be innovative and try something new to the table.. I would love a few end game zones that was PvE contested end game zones.. Zones that entice the community to work together to defeat the PvE open world.. Keep "instancing" out of it.. Make it the community against the game..  There are many ways this could of been done, if the devs really wanted to do it.. However to do so is a 180 away from esporting..

     Doesnt' Bliz realize that esporting is niche.. Look at Starcraft II.. Sold a ton of boxes, however once everyone completed the story and end game esporting was all that was left, 1/2 the buying customers quit playing it.. Why?  maybe cause esporting doesn't appeal to many on a 24/7 basis.. Now if Blizzard would come up with "dynamic" zones, and social PvE end gaming, I might give them another look

Originally posted by snoop101

Originally posted by Daffid011

Wanting a game to take 12 months to get to raiding doesn't make someone mature and anyone who doesn't want to play that way some sort of child.  Comments like these seem a little childish to be honest.

No because anyone who wants something NOW is a kid. Only a mature adult knows that you must work at something to achieve something. If your an adult and want to play a game that you can finish in a few days then play a console game. MMO's were designed to be played over a long period of time. Anyone who started with MUD's or even BBS games like BRE understands this.

Raiding should be for people that have experience. Understanding your class and others. Understanding the mechanics of the game. Understanding how to work with a large group of people. Unfortunetly a large population of wows community does not understand any of those things.

     Good post.. however I would like to add to it if you don't mind.. I'm not sure I would generalize as kid vs. adults.. I've seen alot of bad adults and have seen a few really good kids..  My oberservation is, the game plays 2 different ways.. It's 99% solo play focused from 1-85, then group grind at end game.. Personally I think that is part of the problem.. Blizzard trains the players to play in a bubble.. Everything they kill is theirs.. They loot everything and never have to share it, nor do they really have to interact with anyone during this whole time.. Then come end game, you ask players to change their whole mentality to do what is best for the group..  But even then, that fails because 50% of the end game mechanics still force the playing community to be selfish.. People needing on loot left and right, especialy in pugs.. Why?  because they need gear score for everything.. I need the best gear for my primary spec, and secondary spec..

     Most of the end game is a dog eat dog world.. In my opinion the mechanics of the gameplay foster community problems since day 1.. No wonder so many issues spawn up repeatively.. Is there a true FOCUS on what the game is?

     I wouldn't be surprised.. Just like SOE is pushing DCUO for both the pc and console.. I can see Diablo 3 doing the same..  I've already stated that I believe Blizzard's next MMO will be both console and PC.. Not sure how successful that is going to be.. I can see it now.. "LF dps  must be console player".. or vice versa..