Originally posted by Cabe2323

 

Originally posted by galliard1981

Nevertheless, lets not give up hope. There are thousands ppl out there who would play permadeath mmo, which would be more rpg than hack&slash.

 

Using Diablo 2 as an example for "Hardcore" mode players and saying that the game would be more RPG then Hack&Slash is laughable.  D2 is the king of Hack&Slash there was no RPG to it.  Just because your character can die and the concequences can be harsh does not make the game more of an RPG.      

dude i never said diablo is rpg.

only games i can call rpg are Fallout for single player and Second Life for mmo. you took too much assumptions from my post

I have no idea why those who dont like permadeath enter this thread at all. If i do not like WoW, i dont enter WoW forum and say its unreasonable game and I do not understand why ppl wnat play this game.

first of all, you people who suggest deleting characters are just idiots. stop trolling

second, there is none mmo with permadeath. first reason is that most games are paytoplay grindfests. in diablo you can get 80 levels in 1 day so losing your character does not hurt as much as in Last Chaos or Knight Online when you need to play for years to get decent lvl. it would be too big punishment and nobody would play such game, considering huge amount of grind in most mmo.

there are mmo like shadowbane, where there is no grind. But then, it would require special additional server for hardcore fans. Todays mmo are managed in different way than battlenet games and few would invest in new server just for the sake of HC mode.

Nevertheless, lets not give up hope. There are thousands ppl out there who would play permadeath mmo, which would be more rpg than hack&slash.

I agree with Vendain. If you want a serious and exciting adventure, play single player rpg. Even older might&magic series has some interesting quests besides just killing.

MMO games are mostly for losers and due to skill requirement, they would be not able to play some.

Of course I keep dreaming about morpg with ingame GMs making plots and storyline, just the same as in causal rpg on paper. Like when you kill a king, its over, he will not respawn again. But then his son will surely plan revenge and try to regain his throne.

I think about half of mmo community likes grind and the other half (including me) hates it.

There are mmo where there is no grind at all (Shadowbane, Guildwars) or little grind (Rappelz). I mentioned most popular games on purpose to show that grind is not needed and mmo can be very successful without this aspect.

Doesnt matter if u like grind or not, you will always find a suitable mmo game and thats wonderful. Long live free market.

I played 6 ftp mmo so my ladder is:

1. Guildwars - only flaw is instancing, so if you like to pk, ignore this game. nice graph, good balance, good support and its the only mmo with storyline

2. Shadowbane - the greatest gameplay and PvP but poor graphics. lots of customisation, lots of proffesions and races, no grind at all

3. Rappelz - pretty looking and interesting PvP ideas. biggest problem is SERIOUS lag

4. Knight Online - lots of grind and almost nonplayable if you dont buy premium account. but wars between nations are sweet

5. Last Chaos - beautiful and the best community there is. the game will be nice if you dont PvP, cuz u get stat penalties for PK

6. Kalonline - game is neverending grind. only 3 proffesions. No PvP.

lol there are still people who think most popular=the best.

to thread author: man, why dont u fanboys finally realise than WoW is not that great?

The girls must have game with beautiful graphics and nice comunity. Last Chaos has both. People there are most friendly i ever met. In addition, LC is freetoplay.

I guess Lineage2 also has nice graph and community and moreover, huge world to venture. I would recomend L2 in first place, if you are ready to pay to play.

As Guildwars fan i must admit this game is not for girls who enjoy more carebear games. GW is too much hardcore for total newb. Its e-sport and females do not like competition and rivalry.

I recomend WoW even less. Never played it personally but all my friends do or did. From what i observed, i must say the community is horrible there.

If only nonpremium accounts were able to connect anytime....

i voted GW but now i regret it. The whole comparison is stupid in the first place. Maybe we compare Sims to Starcraft now? The games are too diferent. GW is unlike anything there is.

GW is the best game I played due to the features I like: extremely balanced, sophisticated PvP. Counterstrike is balanced too but too simple and requires more dexterity than brains.

Most people however, need grindfest. Thats why titles were implemented in GW. That is why GW2 will be more like WoW.

Ergo, WoW is much more needed in this world, which does not mean better.

You would better make Lineage vs WoW thread. This one is nonsense

P.S. I wonder how many of ppl voting and speaking here actually tried both games for at least more than 3 months

Its true. You leave newb island, u get owned very often. This is the reason I quitted. It was just annoying and not RPG-like at all.

However, if somebody kills u, there is a message on main channel: X was killed by Y. So your highlvl guildies can make revenge and get ur items back.

First of all, Dark Age of Camelot is said to have the best PvP.

Among the games I tried, believe me Shadowbane has better PvP than KO. It has everything ingame better, exept graphics and music.

Guild Wars is much more balanced and sophisticated. It requires much more skill and wits than in KO. I have no idea how do you measure "betterness". In KO its about items, PvP lacks tactics because as an assasin u always play fight one way against warrior and one way against mage etc. Mindless clicking on skills.

Secondly, I dont know what do u have against koxp and duping. Only uberlame people enjoy grinding. And duping helps lowering prices so everybody benefits on it.

And Turks were my favourite characters in ff7, especially Reno. How can anybody dislike them?

LOL

Another proof that WoW is not a game to play. It is a game to live for nolives.

Pathetic.

Wonder why there is no Sims online yet.

Originally posted by SynxVII

umm just delete your character when you die?

This is just plain stupid philosophy. If somebody plays Protoss in Starcraft and says Protoss army should be 10% more expensive, you will probably say: "whats your problem? just kill 10% of your army". And if somebody likes playing some overpowerful fighter in Soul Calibur, you would probably advise him to play with only 1 hand.

Now, I came back to this thread because I saw somebody wrote permadeath is for nolifes. I dare say it`s totally opposite. Hardcore players realise that game is only a game and do not whine, when they die. They are not that strongly connected to their characters and to the game, because they have other things that are important to them.

On the other hand, softcores (sorry for using diablo2 naming) need accomplishments ingame because they mean little in reality as people. Thats why they escape to wirtual world and are emotionally connected to their avatars. They spent much more time playing then hardcores. Its even more living the game then playing.

Of course ingame achievements are not totally meaningless. An important achievement is the one that requires some skill. Sadly in non-permadeath mmorpg you eventually achieve all there is beacuse of timespent, not skill. Even the biggest noob can have 99lvl in diablo soft. That is why soft diablo ladder is meaningless.

Oh and the post about heroic deaths was a good one. Its not important how long u live. What u do with your life matters. The statue part is to be refined though ;)

Just today I am coming back to diablo2, just for a reason of permadeath there. Why I like it? It gives me additional adrenaline and level of excitement. It is called hardcore for a reason.

AvP was so awesome to play because you could save only between missions, after completing a scenario. So was Resident Evil

When I saw poll results (about permadeath) I began to wonder why there is no hardcore mmorpg yet? Afterall, 10% of community loves the idea. This means that the game would get 10% market share immediately. Of course it would need to fullfill some requirements:

1. Freetoplay

2. Fast level gaining, similar to d2 or shadowbane. (i can easily get 70 levels in d2 in one day)