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All Posts by Moaky07

All Posts by Moaky07

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1803 posts found
Originally posted by azmundai

So what.

Look I'm as disappointed in this game as the next guy, but this idea that companies cant merge servers is juvenile. They should have done it months ago.

The real conversations that need to be had about this game is why it isn't more successful, and how can we convince investors that this kind of drivel isn't appreciated.

A game like TOR is always going to be received better than any MMO sandbox. So if your contention is themepark mechanics need to vary, then I can understand your position.


If you are trying to claim we need more games like SWg & UO, I am sorry but I have to point n laugh. Not a single one can top EQ subs from 8 yrs ago, and there are a hell of a lot more themepark gamers these days.

Originally posted by oarking

what we really need is all in the pre-CU swg. you started out with nothing and you had an actual reason to play, you had 12 main professions to work through and then you could join a faction if you wanted and put those professions to good use. being a soldier took training, being a jedi or a sith was an actual epic quest and you were rewarded if you could complete it. not this, "hail jedi! i assume you've never used your powers before, but there's no time to practice, here's a lightsaber you didn't build yourself now go figure out how to use those powers you didn't earn!"

Viva la Pre-CU FTL.


SWG already crashed n burnt. I find it amusing that folks suggest those playing TOR should want it morphed into a failed game.


If folks wanted the PRECioUs, they would of played it. There never would of been a CU, let alone a NGE.

Originally posted by Cavod
Originally posted by Moaky07

GW2's claim to fame is B2P, and some of the twits around here wont STFU about what is your point?

Have you tried it?  It's actually a pretty fun and well thought out game.  I doubt B2P has anything to do with why 'twits' won't shut up about it nor it's 'claim to fame'.

No I havent tried it, nor will I. I also wont go into that forum to carry on about a game I wont be playing. If I do show up in a live game forum of something I have no interest in, I dont do my best to troll the folks that are enjoying themselves. I sure as hell wont do it day after day after day to boot.


Pity I cant expect the same courtesy.


It is blatantly obvious who shows up in these forums to troll those of us who do like this game. Stick around a while, if it isnt pretty obvious to you as well, I would suggest a CAT scan.

Originally posted by Ringbus
Originally posted by Moaky07 

Actually it has.....40 bucks per box sold on average(taking the highs of direct sales and collectors editions minus sharing money with store bought standard copies to get this ball park figure). That is 100M alone.


4 Months of 1.3M subs average since it started higher, and maybe it did lose another 300k for arguments sake. 4x15 x 1.3M is 78M.


That gives us 178M. Not all subs payed for the 5th month, so we wont include it even though it puts us closer to the 200M top end of estimates.  No it isnt 220M, but it is getting close. That is even to say they did spend 220.....estimates have ranged 150 to 200M.  If TOR hasnt made back the investment, they are in the ball park now, and after it is pure gravy.


I know it chaps the haters asses this game is going to keep chugging along, but it would be nice if you guys quit with the insistence it is still deep in the hole. Rational examination shows otherwise.




What is so bizarre about these crazy and insane numbers you are posting isn't just how far off in fantasyland they are but the fact that even a moments thought into comparing what you are claiming to other game companies and games would make it obvious just how hilariously absurd they are.

No one, not EA, not any game company, is making 100 million dollars off two million or so game sales. Not anywhere close to those numbers.


Then what would be fact all knowing swammi?


I mean a legitimate estimate, not the stuff you scraped out of your ass. 2.4M boxes at 40 bucks to EA on average(which I explained the number) is 100M(96 to be technical). 15 bucks a month is 15 bucks a month....4 months counted since some got 5th free. 1.3M average for those months since we started at 1.7M, and going with the game followed the same trend.


The math is right. The folks refusing to wrap their head around it.....not so much.


The game has either already made back the initial investment of 150-200M, or it is damn close.



Originally posted by Scot

SWG is eight or nine years old, your thinking is 8/9 years old too.

You seem to think MMO's are made to last years, they are not. They used to be but the huge numbers of them, a very migratory player base and the take over by corporate ideology has changed all that.

They now release like a solo game. Did the box sales and first few months subs make their investment and a big profit for TOR? The answer is yes. Do MMO comapnies want to be putting money into a game with a dwinderling population? The answer is no.

SWTOR made its money, now it will be wound down. The staff numbers have already been cut, it there to see. This wind down may take a few years, but the idea they will put in all you say is a non starter.

MMO players need to wake up and smell that corporate coffee. They are not making MMO's like we used to play anymore, we now only get a solo game wrapped up in a MMO box.   

That makes no sense what so fucking ever.


LoTRO went F2P, and yet they have another expansion coming this fall. I believe that game is 5 yrs old now.


Devs will keep producing content if it is profitable for them to do so. Whether it is this game, or a PB Cruncher online....if the money is there, the companies are willing to do what it takes to get it.

Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by Sameer1979
Originally posted by MMOGamer71
Originally posted by cutthecrap
Originally posted by Greyhooff

The game is still declining, just like Warhammer did, except faster.

EA has obviously turned its back on SWTOR, laid off 200 people on the team - it's a dead game already in maintenance mode and is not going to get any more resources, Riccitello said as much to investors at the EA shareholder meet.

Sorry, but this sounds more like wishful thinking mode, the kind of thing people who despise SWTOR or BW or EA or all three might be praying for fervently

Guess you missed the FACT that all Greyhooff posted is FACT.


Your post sounds like blind fanboism.

Facts which he never bothered to back up? opinions are not facts by the way especially the made up ones. The reason why he neve replied to my post is because he doesn't have any reliable source to confirm that all further development for SWTOR has been stopped or that is is now dead game in maintenance mode.

I bet neither can you, but since you came in his defense something tells me you are him on an alt account, which is bannable by the way. 

Something tells me your confused and throwing around faulty accusations.  Which is ironic becuase you are NOWHERE in the linked conversation.

I don't have to be in linked conversation because i am still very much on topic. Got any reliable information to back up your facts and grehooff's fact? since you are so damn sure that all he posts is facts and anyone who disagree is just a fanboy.

Any link would be enough or any information that SWTOR is indeed officially in maintenance mode and won't get any updates in future. 

Google it.

Infact i did and there is no official word that further support for SWTOR has been stopped completely. I know for sure such a huge info would come directly from EA if they had plans to shut down SWTOR than some questionable random posters trying to pass their opinions as facts.

So nothing? just like i thought. Greyhoof was smarter to bail out when he had a chance you should do the same.

Noone but you said completely.


Suggest you take a Goggle 101 class or even look at the news section.  But then again I wouldn't want facts to fuck up your idea of college 101 debate on the internetz.

No but you, and others like you keep putting forth the idea the game is dead n buried, and yet it isnt the case.


When we keep getting new things either thru our subs, or the F2P route if it ever comes to that, are you going to keep insisting the game is in maintenance mode yrs from now?


I have a feeling some of you haters will be perma camped on this forum, and crying wolf until you are forced to leave. It is painfully obvious you wont of your own accord, and these troll posts, such as in the OP, are going to continue.

Originally posted by Ringbus
Originally posted by hikaru77

¨TOR failure¨, With more than 2.4 MIll of copies and 6 months of of lets say 1 mill of subs you have more than $220 Mill. Yes is pretty much an huge failure. 

Your math has no relation to reality.

EA hasn't made remotely close to 220 million in revenue, let alone actual profits, from this game.


Actually it has.....40 bucks per box sold on average(taking the highs of direct sales and collectors editions minus sharing money with store bought standard copies to get this ball park figure). That is 100M alone.


4 Months of 1.3M subs average since it started higher, and maybe it did lose another 300k for arguments sake. 4x15 x 1.3M is 78M.


That gives us 178M. Not all subs payed for the 5th month, so we wont include it even though it puts us closer to the 200M top end of estimates.  No it isnt 220M, but it is getting close. That is even to say they did spend 220.....estimates have ranged 150 to 200M.  If TOR hasnt made back the investment, they are in the ball park now, and after it is pure gravy.


I know it chaps the haters asses this game is going to keep chugging along, but it would be nice if you guys quit with the insistence it is still deep in the hole. Rational examination shows otherwise.



I hate playing games on PC. I much prefer to use a controller.


In games I cant, I use the directional keys for movement when possible.

Originally posted by -Zeno-

It is like every new game is a fresh brain.  Beta to release is like you are screaming BRAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINSSSSSSS and going crazy.  Then a couple months later when you are just knawing on bones you move on.  I have seen this all the way back to the Shadowbane launch (300k copies sold in a couple days, before the era of WoW).  Will the cycle ever end or is this just how things are?

It is video gaming in general.


I played EQ 5 yrs, and there is no way I would stay exclusive to another game again like that. A person doesnt need to, as there are tons of great video games throughout the various sub genres.


Which is something I dont understand about folks that complain constantly about "there isnt any good games". Maybe to you there arent any, but there are a ton of folks enjoying themselves.

Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Zippy

Update 6/17:

Tor dropped down to 6 NA servers and 3 Euro servers that were not dead prior to when the merges began,  Presently on Tor Status there are 10 non dead US servers and 2 servers that are gaining.  There are 4 Euro servers not in dead status with 1 close to coming back to life. Totaling14 non dead servers right now with 3 close to being brought back to life.

So far with the merges they have now gained in players 3 straight days on Tor Status which is the second time they have posted gains this year and the  first gain since they gained 3 straight days when 1.2 came out.  Keep in mind these gains reflect a 7 day status so likely the gains are larger than  being shown.

It is likely when the merges are done there may be around 20 total servers left of which 10 will be be very close to going back to dead status.  Generally the trend on what happens on this website is when a server is declining and hits below 1.3 the drop off to hit 1.0 is very swift.  The lower it gets the faster the decline.  Veru much a momentum things.  The more people that jump ship the faster the drop off.   But with the merges and the gains it will take awhile for things to settle and for people to percieve any actual momentum one way or the other. 

Overall the merge seems to have been successful in quelling the slide.  WIthout the merges Tor would have been down to 4 non dead servers and at least temprarily they will postpone that slide,  My guess is it will buy them a month before momentum shifts and the big drop offs continue.  In a month they will likely be down to 10 servers again and within 2 months I am guess ing it will settle down to 4 or 5 total servers before the population eventually stabilizes.


They have ¨superservers now¨  , less servers dont mean less people in the game, actually the poplation is growing once again because people was waiting for this and the servers can handle now an insane amount of players. The 1.3 update will bring back to the game even more players, so they gonna need to increase the cap even more and we will have queues once again, After the 1.3, they have the 1.4 wich is a Content update, then 1.5, the 1st expansion with the new planet and story, and they even have a ¨space combat secret proyect¨, and is not the new space mission that we saw in the E3 trailer, is pretty much an space expansion, and all this updates are coming this year.   A population drop, could happen, but also it could grow even more by the end of the year.

You forgot the part where HK-51 is going to make those of us playing very happy in da pants.


Seriously, even though HK wont sport teh "meatbag" reference, I can see his unlocking being a major focal point for a number of gamers. I wish he had of made it into the game at launch.

Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by Ozimandeus

What they need is either a HUGE amount of people playing, or a reduction in the number of servers.. at the moment it just isn't a MMORPG - due to lack of people playing..

More people seem to be on the old Guild Wars than SWTOR!!


It may seem like it...  And if it were true I'd make sure people knew...   But it's not.   Now, there more people were on GW2 last weekend.   There may be more on TSW beta this weekend (I'm one of them).  


And SWTOR keeps dropping and is close to being passed by Aion and Tera and Eve...   But right now it's still, if only barely, holding onto the #2 NA/Europe MMO spot.


Now, we factor in Asia...   No.   Lineage I and Lineage II have more players.  As does Aion and a couple of other MMOs. 

Asian subs are worth like 50 cents per month compared to a NA sub of 15 bucks.


Like you said, no matter what the haters wanna say, TOR is still in the number 2 slot. It isnt dead like the many trolls would have us believe, and that is with all the mis cues made by BW.


Devs have been working on issues, and adding more content. With the server consolidation, I see a bright future, and not a shut down in a yr or two prediction so many wish to display.

Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Amaranthar
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Amaranthar

Yessiree, MMO's have a very bright future indeed.

Well you can't dispute the statement.  From Tetris to Mario to LoL to TF2 to MMORPGs, all games are Skinner Boxes in that they reward the player for playing in certain ways.

I'm not disputing it at all. In fact, given a few scripts, I'm pretty confident that a trained chimp can play these games today the same way players are being rewarded to play.

Edit to add: From his very own Skinner Box, of course.


And yet it takes a rocket scientist to farm the exact same things in order to buy the exact same items from Owen?



Suuuuuuure it does.



Read the sig....MMO sandboxes are the epitome of boring. I am thankful EQ kicked UO/SWG both back into the stone ages.

I can see you have trouble accepting reality on this issue, but let me explain it yet again.

Raph Koster explained it very well in a presentation at GDCOnline 10 years ago. There's a link in his most recent blog to the PDF that's very easy to follow. You know Raph, he's the guy you've been belittling around here recently.

In it he explains that games are fun because of the little puzzles, and people like to "beat" those little puzzles. In a Raid that comes in the form of figuring out how to beat it. And that's all good up to a point. That point is when we solve the little puzzles, and then it becomes boring to us. We already know it. No more thrill, no more fun.

He compares Tic Tac Toe to Chess. In Tic Tac Toe, there's just a few moves you can make, and the patterns quickly emerge. It's fun at first, but then it gets boring. In Chess however, there are so many options that each move becomes an entirely new game. Each move requires a new effort to determine the opponents strategy. Each game is a new game that's not like the previous games. Chess never gets boring, although you may wish to "log out" often. But if you like playing Chess, you always like playing Chess and it's never boring.

The very limited randomness in Tic Tac Toe quickly disolves, and playing it quickly becomes boring. And you never get that in Chess.

So, in MMO design, it's not the hard coded aspects. It's neither the WoW clone quests nor the Farmville crops nor the UO trade skills. It's the emergent game play.

What it's really about is the emergent game play.

  • In UO, players actually made trade contracts to supply gear and resources. Without any code to support it.
  • In UO, players would go to the banks where players were always going, to hawk their goods. This created a "Merchant's Square" atmosphere. Without any code.
  • In UO player formed auction companies, where an organized group would auction off other player's rare items and mass quantities of goods. Without code designed for it.
-----------Aw hell, I'm tired of taking about it. The point is that UO was the best "Sandbox" game ever made, and it was infinitely more interesting and therefore infinitely more fun to play in, than any game since. It had it's issues, big enough issues to drive players away (rampant PKing, then a bend towards gear grind), but the idea of the game was so much better than where MMOs have gone since. It was the first major MMO, and had a long ways to go in it's own right. But still, the idea is there if anyone wants to take up the challenge.
You, of course, don't want to see that, and you can no longer deny that you are a Themepark Hard-on'er like you were.

Lets set the record straight shall we?


I havent "been on Kostor recently", I have been calling the man out as not understanding PVE is an important thing to a large segment of gamers for yrs now. That he wouldnt understand it if someone bitch smacked him with the idea. He feels gaming should be all about players affecting others, and what do you know? Not all of us feel the same. What is even more earth shattering is that his ideas just dont sell well in the MMO arena.


Did I ever say I wasnt a themepark gamer? I have been enjoying PVE content in video games since the 70s. I was never into PnP, nor was I ever into PVP, which these 2 gaming styles most seem attracted to sandbox MMOs. I think they are boring as shit. What is even more boring is the contention that sandbox MMO gamers are somehow "smarter", or that they are the only  "real gamers". Wrong.


I have no clue if UO was the best sandbox MMO ever made. I do know EQ smacked it around so hard that the UO devs threw in Trammal, and the games population grew thanks to it. If Kostor wasnt so full of himself, he would realize there is a huge market of gamers not wanting to deal with others bullshit.


Had EQ not come along, gamers would be forced to deal with Kostors ideas on gaming. The genre is a better place thanks to him being shown the door. If you want a real dev, get Brad into rehab, and let someone else run the games finances.


Originally posted by MosesZD
Originally posted by Fdzzaigl
Originally posted by SeanSPS

I only left 'cause I didn't have the time to play it at all, hah. I'd really like to play it more eventually, so to me it sounds like it's not doing so bad. Except for the fact that they had to merge servers at all in the first place, but I think that is Bioware's over-optimistic fault... I do remember wondering why the heck they had so many servers at launch.

Because of complaints from customers who were stuck in 8 hour+ queues every evening :)


No.   That's not even close.   It's just a myth started by people who didn't want to accept the game is crashing and dying for other reasons.


Full servers with 890K purchases.   Now a 10-to-1, or so, server merger with 2.34 million purchases.  


If the game was good, those servers would still be full.   You can't increase servers by 45%, increase units sold by 262% and have empty servers unless there is a problem with the game.   It just defies logic to conclude otherwise.


The reason they added servers was because they correctly forcasted sales growth.  From EGA to the end of December, they added another 800K gamers.   From the end of EGA to the end of January, they added 1.3 million gamers.    That was more than enough to fill all those servers and demand even more being opened.


Yet we have 90% of servers are ghost towns (pre-transfer).  The reason there are so many empty servers is because the game, for what appears to the be the vast majority of purchasers, wasn't worth sticking around for...


You need to give it a rest.


The game has experienced attrition in the 50% range, which is well within the average of other MMOs.


The posted loss of 400k subs is an average of 2k per server. Nearly every server, with few exceptions, spent the day on light status when game shipped. Then in the evening all would reach at least normal status.  As things progressed, and we got the posters going mental about what is happening, the shit stirring began  spiraling out of control. Witness these forums. 200k subs left? Yeah OK. More like BW spread folks too far apart, and when attrition hit, it made small servers feel totally barren.


The game should of launched with these levels of players on each server. That is BWs fault, and they paid the price in subs of persons that left cause they couldnt find others to game with on their server.


You have spun post after post that this game is dead, and yet I sure dont see it. It will continue to be one of the biggest profit makers in the MMO genre. Sandbox MMO gamers would give their left nut to play a game that is assured a future like TOR is.

Originally posted by OberanMiM

And yet EQ's FFA PvP server was able to accomplish what other servers could not due to the fact we had a civil environment in which there was far less kill stealing, training, ninja looting, etc than on pve servers due to actual repercussions for the offenders..


Add to that  Kerafyrm in Sleepers Tomb has only been killed on Rallos Zek (and the kill verified to be legit by a gamewide announcement accross all the servers by SOE). And I'm not talking about their "Dragons Dragons Dragons" ring event version I'm talking about the original destroy the world kerafyrm....



Yeah OK


IIRC training was a legal tactic on the FFA server.....doing so on a PVE one got ya banned. How the hell you think Fansy became famous? It wasnt the "Go go good guys" was training the shit out of everyone.


Kerafym was a neat accomplishment. I would take nothing away from  the folks that participated. They dealt with a lot of exp loss due to the death touch. It seems like the mob had to be reset the first time. IIRC a GM killed it. It probably didnt hurt to have more folks show up, and get in on what would be a one time thing. I believe all but Xev had spawned the Sleeper on PVE servers years prior. They didnt have the luxury of extra lvls that waiting yrs afforded folks on PVP servers. The Xev sleeper was awakened by a black op move, and the xev server as a whole lost their mind on the folks involved.


Also IIRC PVP servers were 8% of the total number of servers, and the 4 of them were the first servers to be merged. Which harkens back to your contention about the actions going on......kind of hard with a lack of players. It wasnt until the major losses caused by WoW kicked in that the PVE servers started being merged. I was on Mith Marr, and we got folded right before I left.


Getting rid of forced PVP was a good thing, no matter how much the griefers miss the easy marks. The mechanic is not popular, and worse, it gives gamers the power to drive off other customers.



Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Shazknee

Suuuuuure it has.


In 5 yrs, when the game is still chugging along, I bet you will still be trying to run the smack in this forum.


You have been running the 300 or 400k sub thing for a while now. You were full of shit then, and you still are. I would say the beating horse thing is quite apt. Now if you wanna photo ship your RL pic in for the information minister, and throw the caption 'I swear it  is going to shut down any minute now", you would have friggen gold.


There is nothing to support your, nor the OPs contention, yet you guys attempt to pass it off as fact. Which is par for the course when it comes to the haters around here.


I never said it would shut down. Warhammer hasn't and it has 2 servers total worldwide. I know very well how these things go. I'm a regular player with years of experience playing MMOs, unlike you who came here bent on spreading disinformation and fire-fighting for a failed MMO.

SWTOR does have under 300k subs, and that number is still dropping, fast.

It went from over 200 servers worldwide to just over a dozen.

Just match the reality to the lies. Down to just over a dozen servers with 1.3 million subs? It's obvious who is lying.

SWTOR is a total, abject failure, because its incompetent scumbag developers failed to make a good game that players wanted to play, and their arrogance and dishonesty made them ignore all the feedback provided by players to improve the game.

The story is very simple and very obvious. It's Warhammer all over again, but worse: a bigger and faster failure than ever before.

No you have been spouting under 200k, and heading to less than 100k....much difference? I dont see it.


Show me under 300k as fact, or else  once more it is simply a case of you shoveling the hater shit.


There are still over 600 employees involved with the game. For the numbers you keep spouting BW would have it down to SWG employee numbers prior to the NGE. That just isnt the case. They cut back on 200 of the 800 slots, and the 600 remaining  would stand up with any game live/in production save WoW, and possibly Titan.


Yet you are still here spewing BS.


Like I said, I bet you are here in 5 yrs still talking blown out your ass information. If EA/BW ever get to the point that they dip below 500k, we will see the F2P conversation, and income will still keep kicking ass. No matter how much you wish it, this game isnt going anywhere, and it will continue bringing in large amounts of money.



Originally posted by Biskop

The op needs to spend more time in his English class and less time writing on gaming forums.

Perhaps English is a 2nd language?

Originally posted by bingbongbros

Everquest was a great game, but also started the decay of the genre before WoW ever launched.  EQ is to blame for gear becoming outdated instantly by a new expansion, really became a problem from PoP onwards.

And also is to blame for instances (segregating players from each other) in LDoN.  And the destruction of player run business and interaction with the introduction of The Bazaar, which completely destroyed the nomadic market of the commonlands tunnel.


WoW just took those bad ideas and ran with it, the devs were admitted EQ addicts.  I'd say EQ is the best and worst thing to happen to mmos.


Personally, I think Nexus: Kingdom of the Winds was the best thing to happen to mmos.  For those that have heard of it and or played it back before it became a fashion show.

I dont know what "decay of the genre" you are talking about unless you mean MMO sandboxes, and yeah....EQ showed they arent very popular.


As for your comments.....


For those willing to spend hrs on end running their shop and/or looking to short change others, I bet the bank/tunnels was their bag. For those looking for a fair price, or being able to find something at 2 AM, the bazaar was a god send, even if at first it lagged everyone out.


The loot issue? Yeah it could be discouraging to see the raid item you got from 2 expansions back beat out by some vendor trash in the new expansion, and yet the path for raiding nearly always included doing the expanions in order. If the items gotten from previous expansions were meaningless, folks would of been concentrating on the new expansion only. One thing I think you have to consider is back then EQ was hitting us with 2 expansions per yr. IMO the correct way is to introduce 1 expansion a yr. One yr between needing upgrades is fair IMO.


LDoN brought good n bad....Bad because the open world dungeons helped to shape the community. Good because folks could play what they wanted with their groups. The same was true for guilds wasnt a matter of if the MOB was up, just simply a matter of it needed to be keyed, and where the lock out timer stood. When you get 30, 40, 50, 60 or even 70 folks together, you should be able to do things. The best thing to come of this was no more outside griefing ruining others fun.


I dont know about the game Nexus, or what it was supposed to add the genre. I still contend bringing PVE to MMOs, and doing away with forced PVP is the best thing to happen to MMOs. 





It showed devs folks didnt wanna deal with forced PvP, and that PVE was an appealing gaming style in the MMO realm.


I think WoW really went too far with the casual approach(same as the game I am playing....TOR). That said, PVE themeparks should fall somewhere in the range between WoW n EQ IMO. Going to extreme ends of the scale really dont seem to pan out as well as the original, even though they generally afford the company a good chance to at least recoup the investment.


If you were going to play a themepark MMO, where would your ideal game sit?


For me, it would be a game that is probably 60% WoW, and 40% EQ on the scale. I want a little issue from deaths/no quest markers etc, but I dont wanna spend all night waiting on a bod run to complete.

Originally posted by Greyhooff
Originally posted by Moaky07
Originally posted by Shazknee

The game hasnt failed in reality.....certain posters are far from reality, and I would present the 500M thread as evidence to that claim. Others would have us believe MMO sandboxes are the way to go, and not a single one has had more subs than EQ did 8 yrs ago.



The game has failed. Huge budget, huge IP, destroyed by incompetent scumbag developers and down to under 300k subs. That's failure, pure and simple.

SWTOR is an utter failure, the worst MMO failure in history. Not surprising since it is developed by the worst MMO developer team in history.

Suuuuuure it has.


In 5 yrs, when the game is still chugging along, I bet you will still be trying to run the smack in this forum.


You have been running the 300 or 400k sub thing for a while now. You were full of shit then, and you still are. I would say the beating horse thing is quite apt. Now if you wanna photo ship your RL pic in for the information minister, and throw the caption 'I swear it  is going to shut down any minute now", you would have friggen gold.


There is nothing to support your, nor the OPs contention, yet you guys attempt to pass it off as fact. Which is par for the course when it comes to the haters around here.

Originally posted by mikahr

Game is huge, theres no doubt about it.

Problem is that BW took approach with quantity over quality and it shows.

More is not always better and SWTOR is shining example of it. It reminds me of Vanguard a bit in that departement.

I really dont understand the contention about quality. Alderaan is a huge ass zone that wasnt throw together as some empty parking lot ala a SWG. It is obvious it was crafted along the lines of a zone in EQ.....only much bigger.


Although perhaps you didnt enjoy EQ. It was my first MMO, and like so many others, your first game sets your standards typically  when it comes to an MMO.

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