It seems obvious and majorly overlooked, ....    Normal  /  Nightmare / Hell   modes.   Ok, ya, I'm jonesin for D3.     But they had it right, just make it new. Give it 3 dimensional control. Give  ( US )  the option to chose movement control between key and mouse. Invite the whole fargin planet. Make it pvp with toggle.   Dare to dream test that shit and polish it BEFORE you put it in a box.  Make it similar to what we know, or something completely new. Think outside the box. This type of entertainment IS the way we're headed, maybe a game which is an interactive movie we participate in.  Pick a time / place in history  it doesn't matter.    But ffs stop beating a dead horse, let it lie.  People are gregarious, we tend to flock, like it or not. We people watch, or sometimes we integrate and do things together. We have that option thanks to freedom of choice. Anything less is dictatorship, which I can't think of too many people that want that. Try to practice patience in the meantime, since we seem to repeat history by reliving it. One step backwards for 2 forward.

 Damn  marketing scammers..   It's probably why testers do break the NDA of beta, the man cannot be trusted.

      Too bad we get so attached to these games passion overrides common sense. They need to require a labeling on the sides of game packaging like on cigarette packages:  Warnning The Surgeon General has found game prereleases to be hazardous to your psychiatric and monetary well being.

 It really does make one feel as though you got ripped off if you spent the cash to be a subscriber then only to find you're paying for what everyone gets....and you don't expect people to react by a definative WTF?

    Ok..I'm psyched to get the ball rolling with this game. But I was led to believe that as beta came to a close and sometime prior to the Halloween release, we would be able to get in, establish character names and given some time at least to approach the lvl 22 beta cap and roll into release...???

   I don't want to name other games but several afforded the beta community to do this. It doesn't bode well that they say they will keep and open dialog to appraise us of events, shedules, dates and such, then put us off till, and I'll keep an open mind about this..light the game 1 day before halloween . That is if I can believe what they wrote on the site front page.

 Has anyone any information that can confirm or deny this?  And yes as a soon to be subscriber hoping for the best with Hellgate...I'm jonesin to drop some demon..en masse.....cya's in hell..

Maybe...Just Maybe ..LOOK at the F'n calendar..Releases Oct 31st

Sure feed the beast.

   Math has it's place..and no kids, stay in school and learn it well. But ffs when i go into a game for escapism,, the devs seriously need to stfu with cramming it down my throat. It only loudly reminds me..they allow gold sellers to diminish the experience , they obviously do their math to calculate how long you'll need to keep paying them to achieve x. Then as you're so blantantly reminded of real world figures and calculations all the other quirks they put in the game jump up to kick you in the nuts, and here we are reading more threads on everyones take on it , pro and con rather than enjoying our escapism we pay for to begin with..... Makes me want to go read a book.. thanks alot you f'n number crunchers...

     I have to say personally I like the thoughts you've wrote on the subjects casual gameplay, the grind, etc. MMOWTF..exactly

I've been wanting to put my 2 cents in on the subject as well. Granted this is 21'st century entertainment, and it is evolving. I've been playing for many years...suffice to say...many years..lol. Ok, I had an Atari pong when it came out and was mid teen years. moved up to Intellivision with the audio adapter for B-17 Bomber. ( bandits...6 o'clock ).  Fast forward, to the time of  DOS and the PC, and became quite intimate with Sierra games Kings Quest series. I don't personnally know her but know of her, and I must say Roberta Williams probably has an interesting sense of humor add to the games a phrase of " odds bodsskins". Fast forward some more to delve through various other titles like Return of the Mummy and misc other rpg's.  Bare with me hear as my quick trip down short term memory lane brings me to some 8 or 10 years ago when my then 12 year old daughter came to me with a horrific story of being killed in a game she was playing by some ruthless daughter slaying PK'r. You can imagine my outrage by this. Retribution was the least of what I had in mind. Someone was going to pay dearly in an unsavory manner for even remotely suggesting my one and only beloved would suffer harm . I was instantly immersed into the wonderous, fantastic world of....Diablo. My mission was clear...I would save her at any and all costs, forsaking anything I might need to go through to learn what it would take to max level and forever in that realm be a true hero and Pallidin. I met some good friends to quickly show me the ropes. I explained I would thwart any and all comers. NO ONE would harm my child ever again.  5 YEARS later, victim of several pk's, body poppings, and countless lost duels I found true love of my first MMORPG. Diablo 2 Lord of Destruction is and always will be part of my history, indulgence in escapism, and investment of entertainment, and at 45 years of age and the current rate of what the industry is become, my most loved game of choice.

      I've built up my system to handle anything avialable to date. I anticipate great things from hype, ( thanks alot marketing geniouses ) from the names and titles to come. I've ground ( grind plural ) in L2, DDO, Horizons, Oblivion, Ferentus, RYL, Last Chaos, WOW, GW, Dungeon Siege,  paid useless homage to DnL and being subjected to It's bogus billings, fell into the bogus unfinished hype of Vanguard ( lvl 20 orc dreadknight ) , LOTRO ( jury still out, Turbine has progressed since DDO ) and then lastly scored a beta key to try NCSoft's Dungeon Runners...hmm wierd they jacked and plagerized my beloved Diablo in an off sort of way. Go ahead and call me the disgrundled gamer, but as I see it a day late and a dollar short of what they should've done with the potential of L2. ( long live the memory of Hellsfire alliance ) . But I digress... occasionally...

 I have a career. I have alot of spare time. I also have cash to throw at 21'st century entertainment, 50" big screens are the shit. When dissatisfied or bored or a good new movie comes along, I find that entertaining as well. The similarity between movies and games is astounding, it's the way our history of entertainment is, and will be going for some time. Both have a mix of interest to the masses, but you cant alway please everyone all the time. You don't have to subject yourself to something you find objectionable. But the classics should get the respect they deserve. The patronage of the following should prove that, and it does. So my long winded point is: During the time we invest / spend for our entertainment / escapism should be reciprocated in the return for it.  When I run off to ( fill in the blank, name of world you enjoy ) I DO NOT want to think of car, mortgage, utility, taxes or any other real worldly responsibility. I DO NOT want to remember I work to Iive and choose freely not to live to work!  I want to escape, to be alone and conquere or siege opposing wrongdoers with an alliance. I want to be GODLY. I want to have riches beyond imagination. I want to find the mystical magical powerful sword / armor of ludicrous potential .  FFS it's a fantasy, let us have it so that is should be just that. I don't know what to tell all the people that want to simulate real world hardships, grind, and mediocrity in there gaming experience...maybe try getting a job?