" There's really no "sinking ship" going on over here. Guild Wars and Guild Wars 2 are in many extremely capable and passionate hands, and both games will continue to grow and develop long after I'm gone. To be honest, I haven't been directly involved in actual development in quite some time - my focus for the past few years has been web, marketing, community, and other behind-the-scenes projects. I know that people generally view departures as abrupt and alarming, but mine is definitely not. I'm looking as forward to playing GW2 as you guys are, and I have absolutely no doubt that this team will deliver an incredible game. "

-- Emily Diehl,  http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Feedback_talk:Emily_Diehl

I know it's been said, but I have to reemphasize:

Why the heck did you use Guild Wars screenshots when that's the game that gear isn't a big deal? You can walk up to a merchant at any point early in the game and buy your max armor and weapons. You can also buy pretty much any weapon skin in the game from other players (none of this Bind On Pickup crap.) If you did have to "run" a dungeon or quest to get it, you actually got a story behind it.

OH MY GOD MY 5+ YEARS OF GUILD WARS PLAYING IS FOREVER RUINED HOW DID I EVER FALL FOR THIS SCAM FARK!!!!!!!!!

God these discussions suck.

Yeah hate to say it, rolled on the other side to give it a spin. While I thought the "evil" race was kinda cool, it was just a night elf with Orc/Troll textures and I couldn't shake the "WoW" glasses off. I still have a month of pre-paid WoW.....I have no inclination to fire it up again, if ever.  And I just can't get past how much this game tried to emulate it, I swear some of the voice overs sound the same.

It just didn't really bring anything new to the table, and it doesn't really have any charming quirks or personality to it like about it. The game is playable, but it lacked a world and setting I felt like investing in.

I'll keep my eyes on it though; not like anything else is grabbing my attention atm :P

And kudos to at least keeping a moderately civil discussion about game flaws on an MMO forum.

Just back from my first 5 levels.

Graphics are definitely "Poor Man's WoW." Can't tip toe around it, no matter how much I try to turn it off from my brain and give it benefit of a doubt. Hotkey icons looked too familiar in style. I hate using WoW Clone to describe any MMO; this one I can't think of any way to describe the initial impression.

I do have to admit, there are plenty of other games out there in the free market that play similar to this one. That said, there's a lot of P2P titles that I'd rather spend a little more to get the full game of Alganon, even if I just play it for a month.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Looking at most peeps arguments against it, it reminds of a topic a blogger I followed brought up in gaming:

The Peanut Butter Conundrum.

Go to a supermarket, and let's assume your brand isn't available. Which one do you pick? Crunchy? Creamy? So many damn choices for pretty much the same thing. Some peeps will tell you Brand X tastes better than Brand Y.....

It has my interest for now. It's not going to stop me from playing other games, it's not gonna make me stop longing for Guild Wars 2. It is gonna give me a new stomping ground for a little bit, a new map to figure out, and due to the small population numbers NO BARRENS CHAT. 

Alganon may have some nice ideas and some potential but thousand of failed games have that and there is nothing outstanding.

A game is not a reason for itself to be played!

Did I really just read that?

If Ripper calls it a Diamond in the Rough, I'm gonna have to download it and try it.

Hail to the old DR crew ;)

PS -- I know you wanted Genuine feedback. I'll give it a spin, and tell ya if I find kinks.

I will say up until now, I didn't play it simply because it was Sub. The games I usually sub to are either alleged "AAA" titles, or small time games with an optional sub (Dungeon Runners, Requiem etc). Only "AAA" sub title I've stuck with is LOTRO, which I just play as a casual. The only AAA title I've stuck with long term is Guild Wars, not just for no sub but just for being different.

I'm gonna go in with low expectations. But I will admit I have a place in my heart for underdog games.

[Mod Edit]

Get real. ALL MMO's are for profit making, the Whoring began long ago when someone invented the idea of a subscription-based game.

What cracks me up is all the folks freaking out about it going free to play and that it suddenly cheapens their subscription service. The damn game will play the same for monthly subscribers anyway; this is just offering an alternative for peeps to try it out and possibly purchase the content a different way.

Only on gaming forums could something offering free content be considered a bad thing.

Don't feel bad and don't listen to the wave of peeps who are gonna be smart asses about weak passwords.

Right now it's coming to light how weak the NCSoft security really is. A lot of people have been hacked thanks in part to linking their GW accounts to the NCSoft Main accounts (*Edit: Read my comment below. This has apparently been addressed by Anet but, yeah.) and there has been some discussions about how easy it is to exploit the NCSoft site.

One of my guild officers, who is one of the most anal guys I know when it comes to account security got hacked, and when he was able to get his account back was completely stripped of his belongings. Funny that the magical red notice and security changes hit about that time talking about the wave of hacks going on.

For some more insight: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/account-hackings-source-t10419779.html

Edit: They've added some official responses addressing the fear of the NCSoft Master Accounts. Still, it seems more widespread than just the usual weak password stuff to me.

-It's a PvE game....simple, why argue over something that have no point in arguing......play something else if you want PvP

Quoted for Truth, Awesome, and More Truth.

Raising a ruckus and arguing over PvP in LOTRO  is like me arguing that there's no freaking Elves or spells  in EVE Online: It's just not that kind of game.  Don't like it, don't play it, stop bitching to us why you want it, it's not the market it aims for, it's hands are tied by the group that licenses the IP, it's just. Not. Going. To change.

PS -- to the clown that commented "the game has so much potential" I think the fact that it's been running for a few years, has a decent population and has frequent updates (including the recent Siege of Mirkwood expansion) is proof it's doing fine being a PvE-focused game. But as someone who played WAR and Aion, I will say this seems like the only modern MMO that can even touch the "RvR" style of PvP right. It has some kinks and flaws but it's still the game I come back and play for that sort of thing while the rest crashes, burns, and lags out.

Hate to say it, welcome to MMORPG.com forums.

You can almost play Angry Ad-Libs with any MMO discussion here:

<Title of Game> sucks! It's just more <favorite fail term>. I can get the same experience playing <WoW or F2P>.  This game is going to bomb like <AoC, WAR, or any other PvP-centric game that has failed community expectations.>  The part that annoys me the most is <Grind, Ganking, Imbalances, or more WoW comparisons>. Hopefully, <Insert name of brand-x hyped up open world PvP-Sandbox that will potentially also bomb player's expectations> will save the MMO industry.

Remember, these kinds of communities contain more grumps complaining about the games than people who actually play and enjoy them. That and assholes like me.

heh we must have all replied at once going NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

epic :)

I don't think Blizzard would host their sites on x10hosting.com domains, especially not in the web address that the "beta" link you posted links to.

It's a scam.

Wanted to share the pics from the "HAM-mo-FOW" run we did this past weekend with our allies.

Full 8 man team, 7 Pets, completed FOW in about an hour and a half and we all walked away with a bunch of obsidian shards. Good times had by all!

Party List:

Want in on the fun? Apply at our website or PM Obtena Shadowkin, Redshot Rory or Horus Wants His for an invite.

We are a "Casual Hardcore" guild established by longtime freinds, guildmates and allies and we are looking for a few mature, fun, and awesome recruits to fill our ranks.

Aion: North America, Asmodian Side (Server TBA)
HAMNATION is looking to start a chapter in the upcoming NCSoft title Aion. We're planning on playing on the North American version, Asmodian Side, and we can use some recruits to help us build the chapter from the ground up.

If you're interested in getting in on the ground floor and establishing the core membership for our new guild, please apply today! Right now we're in the early planning stages, preparing for Open Beta where we hope to recruit some more solid members.

Again, we're looking for players who meet the mature(18+), Casual-Hardcore mentality who are fun loving, laid back, but when it comes to game time they give it all they got.

We're looking to fill our roster with an emphasis of Quality over Quantity, and we plan on having our Legion being fun and inviting for those who prefer to keep things fun sans the asshattery.

Also.........

Guild Wars:
Hamstorm Nation [PIG] has recently been established and we're looking for easy going, fun loving individuals who are into PvE as well as factional PvP (Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry etc.)

Whether you're a complete newbie to Guild Wars coming in late to the game, or a vet who's just looking for a more laid back and fun crew, we got a place for you. Our founding officers have been playing together for years and have seen and done many of the ins-and-outs of Guild Wars.

Those years spent playing have been along our friends and allies of the Defenders of the North [EYE] Alliance. Hamstorm Nation is happy to finally have our new guild back amongst our friends and family there, and we happily plug them as a perk towards membership. The alliance is an active, diverse and fun community that offers a little bit of everything for everyone on both sides of the game.

We love to play, we love to have fun, and we love to tackle head on everything we do. You'll see us on Luxon side of AB with our all pet/ranger teams (look for the swarm named Hamstorm, and no, it's not the build on the back of the prophs box.) You can also catch us doing fun things with our alliance (such as themed Fissure of Woe runs, like WAMMOFOW or HAMMOFOW).

If you're looking for a good home on Luxon side, [PIG] & the [EYE] Alliance have a place for you.

What We Can Offer You:

* A Fun, mature community where we focus more on having fun then enforcing rules or schedules.
* A guild of gamers whose experience with gaming, both offline and on, is very diverse and rich.
* All of the standard communication tools to keep a guild together: We have forums, Xfire, and a Vent server.

If this sounds appealing to you, come by our website and introduce yourself in the Welcoming Section of our forums!

http://hamnation.rpgwars.org/

We are a "Casual Hardcore" guild established by longtime freinds, guildmates and allies and we are looking for a few mature(18+), fun, and awesome recruits to fill our ranks.

Guild Wars:
Hamstorm Nation [PIG] has recently been established and we're looking for easy going, fun loving individuals who are into PvE as well as factional PvP (Alliance Battles, Fort Aspenwood, Jade Quarry etc.)

Whether you're a complete newbie to Guild Wars coming in late to the game, or a vet who's just looking for a more laid back and fun crew, we got a place for you. Our founding officers have been playing together for years and have seen and done many of the ins-and-outs of Guild Wars.

Those years spent playing have been along our friends and allies of the Defenders of the North [EYE] Alliance. Hamstorm Nation is happy to finally have our new guild back amongst our friends and family there, and we happily plug them as a perk towards membership. The alliance is an active, diverse and fun community that offers a little bit of everything for everyone on both sides of the game.

We love to play, we love to have fun, and we love to tackle head on everything we do. You'll see us on Luxon side of AB with our all pet/ranger teams (look for the swarm named Hamstorm, and no, it's not the build on the back of the prophs box.) You can also catch us doing fun things with our alliance (such as themed Fissure of Woe runs, like WAMMOFOW or HAMMOFOW).

If you're looking for a good home on Luxon side, [PIG] & the [EYE] Alliance have a place for you.

Aion: North America, Asmodian Side (Server TBA)
HAMNATION is also looking to start a chapter in the upcoming NCSoft title Aion. We're planning on playing on the North American version, Asmodian Side, and we can use some recruits to help us build the chapter from the ground up.

If you're interested in getting in on the ground floor and establishing the core membership for our new guild, please apply today! Right now we're in the early planning stages, preparing for Open Beta where we hope to recruit some more solid members.

Again, we're looking for players who meet the mature, Casual-Hardcore mentality who are fun loving, laid back, but when it comes to game time they give it all they got.

What We Can Offer You:

* A Fun, mature community where we focus more on having fun then enforcing rules or schedules.
* A guild of gamers whose experience with gaming, both offline and on, is very diverse and rich.
* All of the standard communication tools to keep a guild together: We have forums, Xfire, and a Vent server.

If this sounds appealing to you, come by our website and introduce yourself in the Welcoming Section of our forums!

http://hamnation.rpgwars.org
 

Hrrrm, seems one sided, I know plenty of girls who enjoy chest bubbles as much as I do.

Also,  it's funny she uses Tabula Rasa as a "If they had shown more" example....I have an issue of Playboy where her, the AoC assassin chick and a Cabalist from Hellgate: London posed.

If anything, going all the way topless destines your game to flop.

No pun intended.

Originally posted by DarkPony

Too bad my concern was and will always be the chopped to bits gameworld. All the zoning and channeling really ruined 'mah immershunz' while playing it. Bugs and lacking client stability are almost always post launch issues which get adressed eventually. Structural flaws or bad decisions in game design sadly are not.

So i dare ask, for someone who actually enjoys zones/instanced games like Guild Wars and DDO, could I enjoy AoC?

The OP started this thread a few months ago; and others who participated in this thread I still see pretty actively on the Bloodymare forums. Might get that answer sooner. I've been playing it off and on for over a year; I originally left it to go play WAR. Let's just say I have a WAR time card collecting dust on my desk, and Requiem is still on my hard drive getting played.

I'm not going to blow sunshine up anyone's backside to say this game is awesome. But, it does click right for a lot of us. The gameplay can be fun, the layout of the world and the atmosphere definitely caters to a different crowd. It has plenty of faults, my biggest being the occasional font hiccup and the word-wrapping in mid word. Aside from that, it's been one of my favorite games to quest in, and the dungeons can be pretty cool.   What it lacks in content for most it makes up for in community; the Self-Entitlement kiddies looking for something to (unrealisitically) find something in the F2P that shines like WoW or any other AAA premium title have apparently tapered off, and the people who are just looking for something different and get into the groove of the game stuck around. I think I've only ran into one total asshat in the past month *knocks on wood* and that was just someone who got upset I didn't just stand there and smash keys in a duel. But that's any game ;)

Here's my 2 coppers, for what it's worth, from someone who is both an MMO player for many years, and a tabletop rpg player for a lot longer. I hope Dana actually reads this post and it doesn't get lost in the sea of backlash.

I agree overall that no single game or RP server caters to a pure immersion factor of the game. But let's get serious: Even in tabletop role playing and Live Action role playing, there's the story and game with the characters, and then the OOC and chill out and have fun factor. People who truly "immerse" are, let's be honest, the things that give Vampire LARP'ers a bad name and result in movies like Mazes and Monsters. There's a difference between full immersion and just pretending and having fun.

As many have pointed out already, it's not just about typing in character, sometimes it's about taking advantage of the environment and making an extra layer to the game that involves more creativity and community involvement than raiding parties, grind and gear min/maxing. This isn't just for carebears to sit around and cyber one another and get to be the victims of trolls; this is about adding depth with the toys we have.

The Tools We Have

Here's a weird way of looking at it: Tabletop role playing's most popular game is Dungeons & Dragons. This game was an evolution from Chainmail, a miniature war game. A lot D&D's rules, especially the current edition, have combat based more on tactical, almost Wargame like setup than just narrative approach. Hell, the fourth edition right now is even under some criticism for its rather heavy use of minis for combat. So what seperates it from the Miniature Ware Games to being a true Role Playing Game?

Two things: The Ideology, and the Players. The Ideology behind role playing is that the sum of the rules, dice mechanics and abstract systems were designed with the premise that these are tools and building blocks for interactive storytelling; whereas in War games these are truly rules that must be followed for fair competition. Sure, players could role up characters and just fight monsters, gain loot and crawl dungeons without ever having to act out. Some do. But that's the second thing that seperates RPG's from the Mini Battle players: The Ideology. Combat is usually just a means to an end, not the main focus. There's politics, mystery, drama....it's the thrill of playing out a story.

Adding an extra layer to the Virtual Worlds

You said it yourself: MMORPGs are called thus because they have roots in the tabletop game play. You think Everquest and Ultima Online, and the older precursors such as The Realm and Meridian 59 took off because people wanted to grind to end game and be l33t sk33t on the scrotum pole? No, we played those because they were a brave new dimension of the genre of games we love. Somehow, along the way, MMO's evolved more into leveling treadmills and subscription based grinds for pretty pixels and bragging rights.

The reason a few of us MMO players want RP servers and form RP guilds is because we want to play the game in a way different from leveling treadmills and flavor of the week builds. It's not so much about campy dialogue as it is about community involvement. And don't pin this ideology to just PvE carebears, but plenty of PvP'ers too. My favorite times in PvP guilds in the past have actually been related to Roleplaying themed guilds. No, we weren't in character the whole time. What we were doing was playing with a structured society of roles, titles and jobs, a united goal and when it came down to both inner-guild business, Diplomacy with other guilds or taking arms en masse, we did so in the style and theme of our guild's "persona". We did this in EQ's hayday on Rallos Zek, we did this in Shadowbane, and I know many others who continue to do this in any game they play.

Usually on RP servers, you're more likely to see community driven events than you are on the standard servers. Certain games, like City of Heroes and LOTRO, which offer a lot of RP and social opportunities in game, thrive on the community and arguably are some of the most pleasant in-game experiences I've had when I wasn't doing quests or raiding. In Shadowbane (may it RIP), we always played on the Lore based servers because the community felt more tight knit, and lord knows the politics and drama play there were epic (Whether guilds were "role playing" or not. And for many, that was fun.)

And one last thing:
I agree, MMO's today are a different style of game than the tabletop games they draw inspiration from.

However, the tone you wrote it in, came off more like an industry cop out for lack of innovation to provide an environment capable of delivering and encouraging player character social interaction past trade and PK'ing. Some titles out there have worked on this, and thus have developed a strong RP community and player base from it. Hell, I know many EVE players who are excited about the possible space station expansion in the hopefully near future, because it's going to open up some RP possibilities.