This is a bad system, and probably breaking international law.  This system will make international money laundering easy while Blizzard is taking a cut of it,  

Imagine someone buying a cheap in-game item for  million $$ real-world money, and turn around selling it for millions to another person in another country.   Blizzard is walking on thin ice with this idea.

Freeloaders will decide which P2W is good and which to avoid.  I always find it funny that certain sub proponents love to thumb nose at freeloaders, and yet they hate being nickeled and dimed by game companies.  In my opinion, the moment you accept to pay to play a game, you deserve to get nickedl and dimed by all parties.  All games are P2W, even for subscription games.  If you can't afford the sub and box fee, you can't even play let alone winning.

Freeloaders are the reason F2P thrive and will be the ultimate judge in deciding whose cash shop is fair.  No game player likes to be disadvantaged from the start.  It's time recongize their decisive presence.

Ask yourself this question: when was the last time you saw a poor African country winning most gold medals in Olympics? 

One more thing if you're starting new on NA Mabi: DO NOT pick Alexina server.  It's the laggiest server and may be the reason why Mabinogi is getting such a low rating.

It is a great game, but sadly, it's hosted by a failure called Nexon.

The only things that cost me to play are pets (for storage and mount), and they're permanent so worth every penny.

The rebirth system is the other thing, but there is free rebirth for every character at age 20, so start your character at age 17 and get free rebirth every 3 weeks. 

Be sure to start as a human and you'll get both an elf and a giant character cards.  I never pay for rebirth because I played all three characters and free rebirth every 3 weeks for each.

Originally posted by AlysenMinase

Mabinogi. It is a unique game that's not for everyone. Even though it's F2P, I got the sub option since there is a lack of good P2P sandboxes.

lol +1 for Mabinogi.  It's one of oldest running F2P's (up there with MapleStory and Runescape) and one with old-school gameplays.  Whatever MMO elements its prequel Vindictus is missing, you can usually find them in Mabi.

Koei's online games (Uncharted Waters online, Heroes of Three kingdoms) are worth checking out too.  It's been my favorite Japanese game maker since 1990's with its focus on strategy.  Games with depth are less likely to bore me.

Originally posted by WSIMike

I have other issues with them as well, such as how immersion-breaking it is to go up to a NPC that clearly has a quest, only to be told "You must purchase this content. Click Here To Go To Our Shop!" Why even indicate they have a quest if I can't access it? The answer, of course, is because it's one more opportunity to get me to open my wallet.

In a P2P MMO... I pay my monthly fee, and then do as I wish, at my own pace. In a F2P MMO, I'm hit with a constant barrage of "Sale!" and "Buy!" and other various distractions intended only to get me spend "a little more".

What you just describe is called boxed "expansion" in p2p games which you must purchase from stores to lift the level cap, opening new quests/areas/storylines, and introduce new gears/items. 

Who says everyone paying the same sub fee is equal in p2p??  Those who don't own the latest expansions certainly aren't.

Get a gripe with reality, dude.

Item cash shops sell items and in some games those items are tradeable in-game to balance out between have's and have-nots.

Purchaseble content and expansion packs have new maps, quests, storylines and lots, lots more IN ADDITION TO new items, how can some of you think that's more fair is beyond me.  Can content packs be made tradeable among players?  I haven't seen a game doing that.

Unless they make content unlock doable via in-game efforts and not cash only, like DDO, then maybe it will work.

If balance and fairness is what concerns you, make purchaseable items tradeable among players; problem solved.

Selling content (expansions, storylines, quests, lvl cap unlocks etc.) for a pve game is same as selling powerful gears in a pvp game.

Selling items (tools to use in-game in a sense) and leave content/expansions free to all players are the way to go.  That is what most successful F2P's outside the west are doing.

As long as you advocate for selling content for money, you lose your moral high ground and right to criticize cash shops.  Content selling is the far more evil money-grabbing scheme of the two.

Not for profit MMO = F2P with totally voluntary donation.

Everything else is just sham and scam.

Yeah, as a player I'm all for it.

It's a game with next generation "features", not necessarily a next gen mmorpg itself.

DevCAT always adds new features in pieces to test the water and to prepare for something bigger.  Wait for Mabinogi 2 (=vindictus + mabinogi), that game will be a blast.

Those spit on this game aren't just simple players.  There are special interest groups (developers, game store owners, marketing etc.)  roaming at this site.  They worry about their jobs and competitions.  A few are closet racists acting like they hate F2P but if they are forced, they'd tell you to play any crappy western F2P over good non-western ones. 

So as long as you're happy with your game, why worry about others' opinions?  Games with new & nice features always help pushing the grenre ahead, and real game players would welcome them.

Lol.... how time has changed.  B2P and F2P's used to be bashed at this site, now it's "nothing wrong with sub based mmo's".  Alternative-payment opponents are now on the defensive.

No, there is nothing wrong with sub-based games.  But there is something wrong with subscription-based games that can't keep a significant quality edge over F2P and B2P.  Sadly, that's what we are seeing lately.  Look at the fate of APB and Alganon, and I wonder how long will that upcoming Aerravan last.

Instead of bashing b2p and f2p's, you guys are much better off in pushing for a higher quality product.  If you can't, then no amount of smear campaign against other payment models will save you.  More illogical bashing/smear posts, more it shows your side is losing.

Yes, time is changing, a b2p like GW2 now is enjoying the same amount of hype that was once reserved for titles like Warhammer and AOC.  GW2 will not turn players into a sub-mmo lovers, that much I can tell you.   

I dare OP and other like-mind haters to find competent lawyers to challenge this "free-to-play" advertising scheme.  If there is anything wrong with this term, greedy lawyers would be like sharks all over it by now.  Do you see any lawyer taking up your cause?

By the way, many civil lawyers also advertise themselves as free-to-consult, but you have to pay them after you win the case.  So perhaps OP should also consider hiring more lawyers to sue those lawyers while he is on a similar crusade?

See, OP, you already lost the case before you even started.  Live with the term.  It's legal and there is nothing you can do about it.  Shareware?  Too jargon-like to be acceptable by the "ignorant" mass.   Pay-to-win?  What isn't in today's capitalistic world?

Try harder next time.

In the older days RPG was never about Pvp, it's strictly PvE.  Pvp was only added as an afterthought to keep highest-leveled players busy while new content is being created.  Realizing this will help you understand the core of this gap problem.

Gap should be smaller, not between the highest and lowest level, but between highest and high levels.  No, 100 2-yr-old babies should not be allowed to kill a veteran warrior.  But 10 level 70 players should take down 1 level 80 player.

Nowadays, people just want to skip all pve stuff and get right to pvp.  PvE haters should seek a different genre of mmo games, seriously.

The only way to lessen the gap is doing what GW has done, by horizontally expanding the skill reservoir.  But those with more skills to choose from are still advantaged, and in small-group team pvp environment where every advantage is sought after, it's still a big gap.  Large number random grouping pvping may help lessen that gap.

Originally posted by Raventree

Free to Play model

It takes 90 hours of grinding to obtain this awesome gear.  Want to bypass that?  Cough up some cash at the equipment shop!  Say, that is working pretty well for us.  Let's make MORE gear that takes 90 hours to obtain unless you pay cash for it!!!!

Subscription Model

It took 90 hours to obtain this awesome gear, but that made the players unhappy and we lost subscriptions, so we have reduced the time it takes to obtain the gear.

Your logic is seriously flawed.  Do you think a game that has only cash shop items and no content can attract players?

Your words will also work the other way.

Free to Play model

It takes 90 hours of grinding to obtain this awesome gear.  Want to bypass that?  Cough up some cash at the equipment shop, but that made most players unhappy and we lost some cash shop customers, so we have reduced cost it takes to obtain the gear or made it free for all.

Subscription Model

It took 90 hours to obtain this awesome gear, and we need players to stay longer to earn subscription.  It's working for us as you can see people like Raventree love it, so let's us make MORE gears that takes 300+ hours to obtain so they cough up even more subscription money to keep us in business.

See the what I'm getting at?  It's two sides of the SAME coin.

As for the article, there is a FOURTH reason why p2p won't die: Subscription model can incorporate its own cash shop.

Sub model will persist for sure, but NO ONE can predict sub model won't all have some kind of cash shops in the future.

No one.

When is the last time you saw a mmo developer pays any attention to AI in NPC's and mobs?

So this is a very good trend.  If they focus on NPC henchmen development now, it won't be long before they'll put that work to develop better mob AI, hence making game more challenging. 

Developing AI in any pc game is very hard work with little reward.  So we should encourage the trend, even if it comes at the expense of group play dynamic.

My best F2P experience is Mabinogi, $45 spent in that game lasts me more than 18 months and is still going strong.

My best P2P experience? Well, if my best F2P experience is so great, why would I bother with a P2P?

Currently waiting for Koei's Uncharted Waters Online to come to NA, and a plethora of new F2P's. 

Year is 2056, with the encroachment of P2P (paid-to-play, as pay-to-play had gone extinct long, long ago), Ms. Jimena S. decided to write an article titled "The Future is Now, Again".

Then there will be many folks defending F2P with cash shops, claiming it's more fair than the emergent paid-to-play mmo's, which award most money to the winners and paid others only minimal wage.  At least in F2P with cash shops winners pay for freeloading losers' gameplay, or so they claim.  But now, in paid-to-play mmo's, companies award those "cheaters" with stronger psyionic power more cash per time spent than players who weren't born with such ability.

Yeah, in the future when works will all be done by robots and humans will have more than abundant resources, thanks to colonization and mining of several adjacent planets, the only thing matters to game companies is fame and reputation.  So more people drawn to the game, more fame points the company will accumulate.  The getting- paid-to-play model will replace the traditional model of free-to-play with item malls as the ultimate model for all mmo's.

Just food for thought. :)

Originally posted by Daywolf.

But then in time ...well they will be demanding the game companies to pay them for playing.

There goes the only original sentence in your post.  Paid-to-play, yeah, that's so gonna be that ban of all F2P's.

Hmm.....now work on that payment model instead of bashing F2P senselessly, and show me f2p haters do have brains. 

The only payment model that has potential to beat free-to-play is paid-to-play, seriously.

Originally posted by d0dulk0

Originally posted by gamerman98

 

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Originally posted by Banquetto
Not sure what justifies yet another thread here.
 
Sounds like your idea of a great F2P game is one where there is no reason to spend any money. Sure, that's great for you. Just try not to enjoy it too much because it will be out of business next week.

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there are plenty of games that are still around and its possible to get gear just as good as someone who buys it from a cash shop...ive done it, and yet that game has been around for like 3 years. But i guess in your mind F2p games never last long....gee i wonder why lol

not that i dont believe you but seriously name that game

For me Mabinogi is.  And a few others I've played are like that too.  These are not gear-based mmo, with cash shop items tradable in-game.  One person's reason to spend money isn't the same as the others.

So it has alot to do with your own choice of games.  If you overspend on a game, it's your own fault.  Just like those binge spenders in mall.  Trying to pin the blame on Macy's isn't going to win much sympathy.

Too much entitlement and too little self-discipline and accountability.  So typical of whinners at this site.

WoW has 11 million subscribers.  But Facebook F2P item-mall games have 100+ million players.  Before Farmville, people thought subscription model is the mainstream.  Not anymore since last year, when people realize there is a far bigger market out there that even Blizzard failed to capture.

It's not that F2P's are better games, most of them are craps.  It's P2P supporters' attitudes being elitist and snubbish that are annoying.  If you want to expand your "pay-to-win" theory, you at least need to win supports from free players in F2P, who make up the vast majority.   But no, your attitude to the very people who are intrumental to your argument is they don't exist, or they're bad to the community because they don't pay.

Talk about "pay-to-win" in F2P, and then turn around tell you "you get what you pay for" in P2P.  See the irony?