Ambitious there, Merchant as a class.

Well, for an economy, all players have to be capable of buying and selling, so what does the Merchant have that they don't?

Well, one of their Trees could be the Shop Tree, in which they can increase the size and inventory of their shop, specialize in particular types of items, or not, gain the frachising ability, to take cuts from other people's sales in exchange for items/supplies/etc, gain access to more prominent locations, employ NPC shopkeepers, and the like. Basically, their auto-selling/trading abilities.

Another tree a Merchant could have is their actual Salesmanship tree, which would include the auto-bartering and discounts and such, as well as being able to get more money out of NPCs who buy. That in turn could transfer into abilities to bribe or otherwise influence NPCs in a non-combat context. I might even include this Bribe ability for PCs, and allow them to hand out simple missions with rewards of money or items. That would be a pretty cool thing for a PC to be able to do, and NPC merchants do it all the time.

The third tree I would give them is the Bodyguard tree, in which they can hire/train an NPC  to protect them and do their dirty work. They can upgrade their thug's abilities, stats, autonomy and AI in this tree. I'm a bit obtuse in that way, I believe every class should have some kind of combat option. But that's just me.

Aren't all games children of pong?

What I would like? Team play on ships, whether it be capital ships or whatever. The first Star Wars MMO had a hint of this, but I'd like to see more, perhaps approaching the Star Trek level of having pilots to "tank", engineers to heal, gunners to DPS, as well as security and invading forces to have ground battles within the ships. 

I'd like to see crafting push and generate the story for the players. When a crafter opens a new talent, or finds a new resource, this generates a quest that either they can complete, or give out to others.

Thanks for commenting!

Yeah! A Blendy-in overworld where actions get swift combat could be awesome, and provide that persistance an MMO needs to build community, and with the 'realistic' traffic and pedestrian activity, it would seem like a real world, perhaps more than many others. That means it'd rely on someone developing a very smart very thin code for all this traffic so it wouldn't kill the system with calculations.

I could see a classless system working, but not sure it'd be advantageous. I definitely see the idea of having these sort of rank titles that have to be earned, but i think everyone should feel like they have a useful role on day one. I also think that the idea of making an all around progressive MMO (that is, not a vanilla theme park) is part of what bogged down The Agency so that it couldn't deliver on the few innovations needed to make it work. I wasn't there though, so i can't be sure.

I like the idea of streamlining the martial arts, but I also see a lot of fisticuffs in spy movies. Especially things like the Bourne movies and the new bond, extended hand to hand is vital in close quarters, and even if its a counter-based thing, rather than a more action game button mash fest, I think it should be more than in an FPS, which is really meant to just handle military tactics, which don't include near as much fisticuffs.

Oh, and I forgot to mention, the idea I had with Directors (like all my leader-pet classes) was that they can 'paint' targets for the team, and PCs attacking those painted targets get bonuses to their attacks. They can also buff given abilities, or give temp versions of abilities that players haven't unlocked yet. These buffing abilities are, in terms of the story and animations, orders that the director gives. They also happen to function as commands for NPC pets/grunts. Perhaps it can be renamed squad leader so lower level players can work with this role.

Alright, so, I know The Agency was cancelled, too bad. They had some good ideas, and had almost turned James Bond-style partying into gameplay, which was kinda cool. They had some sweet ideas, and wound up moving away from a lot of MMORPG tried and true aspects, there was more twitch, for instance. I think that's cool, and in a modern gun-based setting, it makes a lot of sense to put it in with those shooters. They also had a loadout-based thing, so the same player could be both old bond, with suave stealth and gadgets, as well as new bond, with more assault rifles and fisticuffs, just by switching what they have equipped.

I'd take a different tack. Here's my thoughts, in brief.

Gameplay and Missions

The game would mostly revolve around stealth gameplay, where all classes have access to some form of stealth and most environments feature some sort of cover, if not several types whether it be trees, snow, or crowds of people to blend into. Players would have objectives to complete and collect without necessarily being caught, or facing stiff combat if they are caught. Players would face a few large NPC terror organizations, but also be able to face off against each other for control of the same objectives. These objectives, whether possessing an item (including "information" items), or controlling a crucial location, each carry with them bonuses of some sort, which can add up if many are collected, making a sort of constant capture the flag type of PVP.

Gameplay would be third person over the shoulder, with shooter-like controls set over RPG-based hit boxes and calculations. Animations would run with each calcuation to avoid the RPG 'missed' feeling.

Missions will generally be done during instances, as the shared world maps will function mostly as lobbies with noncombat gameplay and interaction available there. In this way, this game may work as a console game with multiplayer that blurs the line between normal RPG and MMO.

Advancement and Customization

Players would advance through traditional levels, and unlock new abilities within the trees available to each class. There would also be Tertiary Trees, available to all classes and players. Low Level players would still be lethal to mid level characters, however, they'd lack the options available. The scale of power and versatility available to end game players would render them virtually undefeatable by low level players, except in sizeable groups, perhaps a ratio of 20:1.

Players would have access to a wide variety of clothing and disguise items that they could customize to their heart's content, as well as both Agency (Guild) and Personal Headquarters to hang trophies in, play minigames, and chat.

Classes

Mercenary

The mercenary is the shoot first ask questions later type of guy. An agency brings in these guys when things need to be hit hard, and fast and ruthlessly. Known for their resourcefulness Mercenaries not only have access to a wide variety of weapons, but possess the ability to weaponize virtually anything in the environment, and recieve attack bonuses for doing so. In addition to stealth, Mercenaries can defend themselves with Armor, of various caliber.They generally lack the ability to overcome more complicated defensive structures, however. He has a Tank DPS role, he draws fire by being the first, and perhaps only team member to come out of stealth.

Operative

The Operative is the classic secret agent, known for social skills as much as martial prowess. These are masters of disguise, able to blend in seamlessly in nearly any environment simply by donning the local clothing and speaking the local language. Disguise is their secondary defensive mechanic, which can even cause them to behave as an NPC to blend in seamlessly in PvP. They also have access to a wide array of gadgets, of which they can equip but a few, and have access to basic weapons as well, though the always use silencers. They can often work around virtually any defense, but may lack the punch necessary to take out a boss or powerful device, but is exceptionally good at recovering things that do not need to be destroyed. He has a Rogue DPS role. He strikes enemies when they genuinely do not detect him as a threat, even if he's right in front of them.

Technician

The Technician is the mechanical guru, the master sabateur and, of course the tech support wizard. As a wizard, he is very squishy, with no secondary defense, only basic stealth. He does, however, have access to a wide variety of gadgets, for a wide variety of effects, including healing. He can even cobble together gadgets on the fly, manipulate enemy security and defenses and basically fixes everything, if he can manage to stay alive long enough for the hacking minigame or progress bar to finish. They also have the ability to craft new gadgets, or fuse multiple gadgets into one device. When paired with a Director, they have the ability to work remotely, and though some tasks may take longer from a remote position, they are done much more safely. The Tech has a Support/Healer position.

Director

The Director is the one running the mission, whether her teammates follow her or not. As the official mission leader, she has the ability to deploy grunts to move into position stealthily, or strike, and, over time, may even be able to call in specialists like Snipers, Decoys and Demolitions experts. The Director may paint targets either in person, or via sattelite from an outpost on the outskirts of a given map. High level Directors may join a mission from their Headquarters, in fact, though they are 'killed' when all their grunts are killed. The Director's secondary defense is being remotely located, and if her camp is discovered, or her grunts all slain, she has to establish (build, equip, uplink) a new outpost before she can do anything else.

Tertiary Trees

Vehicles - Players who build this tree may not only utilize vehicles on the instanced maps, but bring vehicles with them, land, sea and air alike. (Directors with this tree can call in specialists who have this tree, and Technicians with this tree can build gadgets for this tree)

Martial Arts - Players who want to be dangerous in close quarters will take up this tree and learn not only some Jui Jitsu, but Grappling as well. (Directors with this tree can call in specialists who have this tree, and Technicians with this tree can build gadgets for this tree, such as martial arts weapons)

Acrobatics - Players who want to scale buildings, do extreme sports and John Woo style gun foo will take up this tree, and watch their character move wildly and with grace. (Directors with this tree can call in specialists who have this tree, and Technicians with this tree can build gadgets for this tree, such as parachutes)

That's all for now, any thoughts?

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

      

    So what do people want in a westen MMO??  What would you like to see in a western, what classes. levels, no levels?  I already have many of my own idea's but when we make a game we want to make something gamers want to see we are sick of all the bad games, out there. We are doing this because we are sick of all of the bad games. We already have a tile, which we will not share, we already have over 800 models made, we have a engine that we made almost done but we want gamers input , you will not get paid for your ideas as we are making this game for you.  So if you wanna share your ideas knowing you will not be paid then fire away. 

 

How about a game that's fun? That's the most important, by far. The combat, whatever style it is, should have a give and take where anything seems possible, and cool things seem easy.

I don't know how they're going to do this, but one thing I always think about a Transformers game is how cool it would be to be able to choose a class for your robot for battle challenges, and a class for your vehicle for navigation challenges.

I do hope there are sufficient navigation challenges between fighting areas.

Originally posted by curivity

I really do wonder though, in the recent interview they stated that they intend to attract in the veteran and competitive crowd as well? with a browser game? lol?

 

Do not underestimate browser based games, Battlestar Galactica Online showed us that they are innovative and almost as completely functional as most other non browser based games.

Booyah. Now that we have the Unity engine, what is the advantage of having a Client?

The complaints seem a bit odd to me:

1) The Interview on the front page talks about Hasbro's "Prime" Universe, so it's not Bay's Universe

2) Volkswagon will not allow their cars in Transformers. Period. No more Bug Bumblebee. Period. No matter what universe you put it in.

3) Unless Hasbro says they can't, there's nothing stopping them from using Unicron and Galvatron and all kindsa cool G1 stuff updated. In fact, with an MMO, it's almost guaranteed they will rather than make up Raid situations, especially on a crew full of G1 fans.

I'm sure we'll get lots of G1 stuff.

I've tried it. It's cool for what it is. It's not done yet (It says BETA in big letters when you load it up), but there's enough fun here to justify the price tag. It does make me concerned about how the adult Marvel game would run.

Sorry to rez this, but I've been looking into the new Marvel MMO and I have to say, that this sliding scale of morality that some desire is not based on the comics.

When you look at characters like Hulk, like Punisher, like Deadpool, they are not characters who are viewed as good or bad based on their most recent actions. They began as, and remain characters who are viewed as bad and do good things with deadly force. No sliding, no 'do enough good things and be a good guy' they *are* good guys.

When you look at flip floppers, and I'd love it if anyone had an example *other* than Magneto. He becomes good when and only when he completes some major accomplishment for the good guys and renounces all evil. If good Magneto were to hijack a bus, he'd be kicked off the X-Men and labelled a bad guy immediately.

And then of course you have characters like Spider-Man who are viewed as bad but do good things, and no matter how many good things they do, are sitll viewed as bad.

This is the Marvel Universe, as it has always been. This idea of a Fable-like system kinda turns everything into chaos, you don't know who your friends are, you don't know where people stand, and everyone plays a psychopath (not exaggeration, actual definition) who flip flops from child saver to child killer at any given monent. That's not the Marvel Universe, that's not based on the Marvel Universe, and I hate it when people take the few moral outliers in Marvel and try to make a case for a sliding system of schizophrenic morality. Develpers: People ask for it because they want it, and if they want it that bad, give it to them, but don't lie and say 'This is how Marvel is' because its not. It's just what some players want and will take any excuse to have.

I do agree a third 'faction' though it can't really be called that because all heroes/villains/etc are not allied - I agree a third mercenary faction is needed for characters like Punisher, Deadpool and Hulk who play both sides. I agree changing 'alignment' should be possible, and like the idea of a big quest, something that can't be done regularly. I would like that quest to function as a temporary change though, to underline the fact that no matter what Spider-Man, Punisher or Magneto do, they will always be, at their core, a good guy, a mercenary, and a bad guy, respectively.

I also disagree with blurring the makeup of the unvierse, which is distinct from DC because it is less 'super,' less flights, less tights. To give everyone travel powers kinda kills it. It'd be much better to take the time to create mounts, and calling a taxi and riding with friends is pretty cool for low levels, imho.

All in all, great article, just had to add my thoughts. Better late than never, I hope.

Um, lets step back from the 'Customization NAO' kool aid for a second.

Everyone wants to play as the 'real' heroes. This was the request in DCUO, which is doing server merges, and was a complaint going all the way back to City of Heroes that the Lore heroes were too important, and that we were all just sidekicks. Look around in any of these games, people are playing heroes, or knock offs of heroes. When you get to SWTOR, you're playing, with tweaks, characters from the SW movies, for the most part. The masses don't want, don't use, and don't need robust customization. While hardcore MMOers and intensely creative want to have different appearances and storylines, invariably, people want the powersets and notoriety of existing heroes.  The rest of the folk, the masses who have never scoffed at F2P, have no problem being an established hero. To say nothing of all the console players who relish playing an established hero. To say nothing of the zero customization in many popular successful F2P games.

The clone complaint is silly. As instance-heavy as games are nowadays, it's pretty clear what's going to happen.

Global Chat

Veron25: "Looking for Wolverine to do Avengers Disassembled"

GarthusJ: "I've got a Wolverine, level 20"

xXxViscousxXx: "Wlv, mxd out, all gear"

ThamesBoy: "Veron - Got room for a Spider-Man?"

GarthusJ: "Wlv, lvl 20, LFG"

And all those goofballs who spent all their time making hero clones and playing as the published heroes in DCUO, and the adults who play SuperHeroSquad Online will be on board to eat it up. And the tiny group of superhero MMO elitists ("If I don't like it, it sucks") who aren't numerous enough to even keep the next big superhero MMO thread up front, much less keep DCUO alive, will be playing... dunno.

Now the problem that you guys are getting at is valid. Where is the emotional investment, if I don't have a single character and full control? I don't have that answer. The developers claim to have that answer, and their investors are confident enough in that answer to make a triple A MMO (say, 10M dollars?) and make it F2P. I've played an MMO like this before, were your goal was unlocking other classes/characters to play as. For example: you start out being able to play Spider-Man and the Hulk, but if you want to play as Wolverine, you need to level up Spidey to lvl 5. If you want to play as Professor X, you need to level up Spider-Man to lvl 10 and Hulk to lvl 5. Basically, it was like a Character tree instead of a skill tree. I thought that was fun.

Also, as a Marvel comics fan, I remember reading in Runaways about the kid Alex Wilder playing a Marvel MMO, and it was pretty clear that playing as the Marvel characters is the only way to go. Especialy since there are many ways to solve the cloning problem.

Anyways, Gamastura has more information on this game, I'll be following it. Can't wait to see more of it.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/34467/Interview_Marvel_Universe_Studio_Directors_Great_Responsibility.php

Nice! Trading between speed and accuracy with a charge up slider is a very nice way to vary things. Having different attacks for different situations is smart too. Area Effect attacks with lower DPS-per-target, Secondary Effect attacks for fleeing or charging enemies is cool - aiming for the legs, as you pointed out. If Ranged Combat is a class' main thing, then they should have multiple necessary options (as opposed to flavor options not used by the competitive) to make that happen.

One wa to make the slider necessary is to have different armor degrees. Many mobs need a charged attack, but not fully charged, to maximize dps, while other mobs can be more quickly picked off by rapid fire.

I like the stances idea, it does involve significantly more design, since, in a way, it's like having two-three characters at once, but you're correct, it would increase the complexity and tactical density of combat.

Originally posted by SequenceLost

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I really think you should read this...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_221/6582-Why-Your-Game-Idea-Sucks

That article applies to this whole forum. Which almost makes me wonder why are you here?

Which is a fair question, that needs to be addressed. Yea, you have to compete with WoW and make players feel rewarded, no you can't get a million subscribers day 1 with a sandbox MMO.

But it can be done.

I just have to chime in to say how interesting and informative this thread is.

If you're going hard indie, you can make a game with 3-4 dedicated skilled people and 5-20 volunteers. If you don't know anything about programming or graphics though... I dunno... it's not lookin so hot.

Originally posted by jusomdude

There will be PvP in the game.

Yes they will be OP against a single player or even a small group. This is a reward for acheiving titan status. But this is a multiplayer game, and they will have a mountain of enemies to kill them. There will be multiple "factions." Not too worried about the whining, it's gonna happen no matter what, take these boards for example.

I really don't know how players can figure out what raises their titan meter since it all happens on the server. There will also be a delay from when a player does something that raises the meter to when the meter raises.

Even if they do figure it out, it won't be something that can be attained in a short amount of time.

 

I think I will make it 1 death and they go back to normal status.

 

Chances are that once the word is out someone has become a titan, there will be droves of people that specifically hunt them just to take away the titan status.

One thing is though, with the combat system I'm using, a regular player can still defeat a titan by outplaying them. Attacks can be blocked/dodged/parried, actively.

 

I highly doubt there will be a lot of titans at any one time, so the grouping issues, are pretty much non-existant.

 

I think it's a nice extra feature for end-game too, although, players can attain titan status at any time of their regular progression.

They will figure it out. Just like they have figured out every other Alpha status in every other MMO, even though everything is done on the server. Imagine hundreds of people who work around the clock to figure out how to become a Titan. They conduct experiments, they keep logs, they track every movement, they intuitively understand game design. They'll figure it out. If you don't understand 'how' they do, that's fine, but history shows that they always, always, always, always figure it out. Always.

Also, no one is going to bother to hunt a Titan if the Titan can wipe out small groups. People don't fight battles they can't win. Which means a large group. Have you ever tried to chase down a single OP player with a large group? You can't, especially if there's no reward. And 'long time' means nothing for guilds who play 80 hours a week.

When you make the penalty high (1 death and they lose Titan status) this means that Titan players will only fight battles they can win. They'll keep their Titans in hiding and pick of things they're OP against rather than loose their precious blessing. It'll be Jedi in SWG all over again.

Here are my suggestions for fixing those issues:

- Let there be a hard cap on Titans, and the only way to become a Titan is to take one out, either PC or NPC. This way, there is no need to go to an external website to get the 'secret' so that you can be competitive. By having NPC Titans to kill to gain Titanhood, you make it more than just a PvP thing, and you can still gate the content with a questline if you so desire.

- When someone is a Titan, they become an open quest to be killed. Everyone everywhere knows where they are at all times. There is no hiding. Go get 'em tiger. This means that people both want to kill Titans and can, which means Titans have to earn that Alpha status.

- Progressive time limit. Titanhood lasts a limited amount of time (say, 1 day online, 1 week offline), unless you earn more time by gaining XP. This means players who want to keep their Titan Titan-y are encouraged to get out there and get at it, instead of logging off and only bringing it online five minutes at a time to show off to friends.

These are  just my suggestions, but I do advise against pretending that players won't figure things out when they always do. Give yourself the mental challenge of figuring out a system that won't be abused.

Sounds cool, just make sure that successful healing and successful tanking also gets equal xp bonuses, or else it will imbalance your game. It'd actually be smart to reward tanking and healing so as to encourage players to actually roll those toons.

I did enjoy this game, immensely so, actually. I think that a smart developer can turn this kind of game into a browser based adventure-style MMO. Your character was never on screen, like in an adventure MMO, but you could see and explore the areas around you. I would love to play something like that more fully developed. Perhaps we should make it, got any programming skills?

The reason I personally wouldn't do it as its own social networking site is because there's nothing to pull others to that social network except the game, so it's really a browser-based game with a personal network attached. Still awesome, and it really should be done. What would REALLY push the envelope is if you crossed it with a smart phone App so that players can manage the social network aspect in real time, and meet others who play the game in real life.

I do have some fond memories of MHA. I remember when the nuke power came out and people would dismantle an area, it seemed, every few minutes. That was crazy. I remember checking everyday for power updates. I think it would be fascinating to 'bring Heroes back' using such a release. Contact Tim Kring and see if we can't get some liscencing fun.