I really like that idea of random encounters in Dungeons. This sounds to be a lot of fun.

I can't wait. I loved the commando last year :) The Minstrel like the OP mentioned could be this year's.

Originally posted by bloodbone

 

So I will preface this by saying I intend to buy GW2 and enjoy it as an E-sport type game. 

There seems to be a lot of people with the impression this game is actually a MMORPG.  Now this may simply be a distinction in how people classify things or maybe I have missed certain details about this game.

My understanding: (tell me if im wrong)

1. The only progression in this game is leveling 1-80 period.  Dungeons etc. will offer no further advancement (outside of cosmetic);
2. Once you reach max level there is NOT a persistent world that players can affect in any meaningful way; (e.g. guild towns, conquering cities etc.,)
3. The large scale PvP battles will NOT happen in the open world but an instance that resets every few weeks.

So if I’m correct in my estimation the only value in leveling is to get to the end so you can play the large scale PvP (E-sport).  General PvP will allow you to ceate a level 80 immediately.

 

Based on all of the above:

 

Leveling in this game should not be mandatory – just like playing the PvE game is not mandatory in StarCraft. 

In fact they should just remove levels all together in my estimation as it would be less confusing to those players expecting a full-fledged MMO.

 

 

Bit late for that to ask for that change. The devs decided otherwise long ago. There is a huge PVE world to play in and the e-sports is basicaly restricted to PVP maps (the 5vs5). I wouldn't even call WvWvW e-sports. It has too many PVE events in it.

Still in GW1, the e-sports was also restricted to mainly GvG, but it was enough reason for many players to keep playing GW.

EDIT: I just realised it comes down to that you are standing on your soapbox proclaiming what GW2 should be. While others are ignoring you because they are playing GW2

Looks awesome. Wish he jumped into the water in the town at the end of the first vid. Would be nice to show that the exploring doesn't end at the waterline.

Originally posted by Monorojo

Originally posted by Purutzil

Carebear? No... Lacking any real pve insentive? Yes...

 

So far its really shaping into a disapointment. Its one thing maybe doing pvp and having some ranking to go against others, it makes up for me over gear. When it comes to pve though, you need SOMETHING. Cosmetics doesn't do anything at all for me. I want some progress, even if its such a minor bit of progress it makes me feel like I accomplished something. With the 'pay' system as it is, it seems like anyone with money has the power to instantly catch up with any bit of 'gear' they need (weapons having certain damage being what i heard is the only factor) which leads me to wonder... why even play?

 

It really makes me wonder about this games longevity. Sure, we can say we play games cause we enjoy it, but in the end its all about earning something. When all you can really earn is credits (money) which can just as easily be bought through real money, what are you really working to achieve? Theres just nothing... absolutely nothing.Why even invest a lot of time into a game that there really isn't much for me? I'm really not that hardcore into pvp and outside that just nothing really has a purpose behind it. I don't think care bears even want a game where you earn nothing from it. Everyone wants to gain something and it just looks like you really earn absolutely nothing out of your work... zip... zilch... nada...

 

PvP to me is just a side note that is fun sometimes but ultimately not something i can invest 5 hours of my day on and enjoy it. I need more and really I have yet to see what will keep me drawn in. 

Very well put sir.

 

So what if you don't PvP? Once you have run the end game dungeons in story mode and finished your story, you quit? Or Keep playing just to get literally shinier armor that has no tangible benefit whatsoever in game? I think the vast majority will quit and fast.

Looking at other games, if you don't PVP, then you are basically talking about the gear progression for raids in PVE. GW2 won't have a gear treadmill no. But if you want crazy grind, then you can also go for titles. You can expect that GW2 will have some very grindy titles to show off, just like in GW.

You might want to look into Zaishen ranks in GW (I'm not asking you to play GW, just look it up to see what that rank is about) This might suit ppl who like some heavy progression treadmill. I expect that they will put several progression paths like these in GW2 too.

Arenanet just doesn't like it if you outlvl or become too strong for content. Either by lvl or gear progression. If you want to become very good, you simply have to learn to play and not just get top rank gear to give you the illusion that you are good because of your overpowered stats.

And words like carebear, bad, failed, is not really a great way too ask for constructive answers :/

Originally posted by karmath

Can we please for once, stop the fanboi crap, personal attacks and hurrr go back to wow hurrr nonsense.

If you feel the OP is wrong in his observations post FACTS in an CONSTRUCTIVE way to disprove him.

Carebear, bads, failed. Yeah, the OP created a very constructive post. With my reaction I tried to show that if there is something that isn't carebear in GW or GW2, it is PVP. If you lack skill, you lose. There is no gear to get an advantage over players with.

PVE is not all carebear in GW2 either. While the main pve lvling content is fairly easy just like in any other MMO, The challenge is in the mega events and dungeons in exploration mode.

Anyway, the OP either misunderstood the working together part in events in GW2 PVE or is just baiting.

Originally posted by Monorojo

The majority of the fans of this game seem to be completely against personal achievement and any osrt of progression that will make any players better than anyone else.

 

This sounds to me like an MMO for all the people who failed horribly in other MMORPGs, whether it be PvP or PvE. You don't have the time to invest in your character and make serious progression? Get Guild Wars 2. This game is ideal for parents, but does not seem like a good fit for the hardcore or even regular mmo player whatsoever. This seems to be a haven for casuals and "bads".

 

Am I missing something here?

Please call your toon Monorojo when you play GW2 so I will recognise you in PVP. Have to warn you though that you won't be able to hide behind tier/rank 328478734 PVP gear or stats like those 'hardcore' games give you :p

Originally posted by Adalwulff

Originally posted by Ginaz

Originally posted by Voiidiin

Seriously i have no compunction to spend money on a game i have followed and whole heartedly felt was a breath of fresh air to a very stagnant game genre. 

No matter how many haters (not sure why they hate a game) post thread after thread of the cash shop, the graphics are bad (really ? i mean really, people think GW2 has bad graphics ?), there will be lag (like other games do not have this on release), i mean i can go on forever on all the knocks that the hater community has tried to place upon a game that i am fully anticipating.

 

No one needs to worry about me wasting my money, i have a nice job i manage my finances well and i can afford to buy into my hobby of choice (video games, preferrably MMOs). I will not feel cheated out of my money, i will not come to the boards and extoll about how terrible i feel for supporting this game. 

I dunno, all i see on this site now is hate post after hate post, not sure how ANet garnered so much haterade but its gotten to the point that its just people trolling now. They pick something obscure, then blow out a minor detail to the point that its so overblown that they think maybe this will be the lynchpin to hamper my enthusiasm for this game.

It won't.

 

How do i know this ? how do i feel so concrete in my opinion about a game i have yet to play, a game with so much negative garbage from, well i hate to say this but my peers (yes all of you on this forum are basically my peers), i know i will enjoy this game because i have spent hours, literally hours of watching beta footage from 3rd party game reviewers. Some of these reviewers i have alot of respect for because they have not let me down yet. 

I get this not from the developers (ANet) i get this from people who have sepnt just a small portion of there time, and in that small portion of time that they share with me, i am drawn in and always.... always left wanting more.

 

So yeah i am not sure why i wrote this post, i think i just wanted a bit of balance from the myriad of desperate haters, maybe others who read this can confirm the same feelings i have about it, or the haters can come and blast me for my blindness.

Please.  The fanboy posts far outweigh any posts by "haters".  I haven't seen such rabid MMO fanboyism since the days of Vanguard and the Vanboys.

 

Totally disagree, maybe your confusing the bait and switch guys, you know the ones that post something bad about GW2, without even reseaching it, then when they get called on it, they turn around and say how much they love GW2 and were just voicing some concerns.

Ya right!

The bait and switch guys? Are they part of the same hater community? Whats with all those vague different categories all the time? Your generalising doesn't lead to anything usefull. Do you ever consider the thought that if you would get to know some of 'them' , you might want to reevaluate your opinion about them? Forum posts often lack enough information for you to determine a poster's intention.

Why is it so bad btw that someone changes their opinion about a game? Coming back from your original prejudice is a positive thing imo. Even if you can't admit at that point that you were prejudiced before.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by someforumguy

Originally posted by Distopia

Yes but they expect you to state your opinion and be done with it, not put that opinion on a proverbial loop that fits into every thread.

Oh come on. That sounds kind of hypocrite. This thread has several regulars that really like to have the last word in any discussion (including me). It never stays at just voicing your opinion on these forums. It always becomes a long discussion. Often by several people who derail someone elses thread with a bloody long quoting chain (regulars in this thread included).

 

That's not what I meant, what I meant is that if you have a problem with cash shops you keep that to threads based on cash-shops, if you have a problem with lack of mounts keep that in a subject that pertains to it. The problem above starts when you inject that opinion into every thread, this is an actual rule here.

I agree with that, but the distinction is not always that clear. Take this thread for example. You could use the gems discussion as an example of critisism to illustrate how expressing your concerns about a game is not always the same as hating a game. The context matters a lot.

Claiming that the gems example would be offtopic, could just as well be a biased opinion. because for example I don't like the ongoing discussion about the gems and don't like to see any discussion about it for that reason. This is just another reason to leave the moderating for the Mods to do. 

I do tell ppl that they are offtopic sometimes though (even though I shouldn't). Usually when some quotechain creates an imo offtopic thread insides someone elses thread :p

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by RefMinor

OI always go into threads from the realtime update page, I refuse to believe that some sub forums do not allow concerns to be aired, I am sure those that run MMORPG.com agree with that too, you don't own the subforum, this is a public forum for MMOs.

Yes but they expect you to state your opinion and be done with it, not put that opinion on a proverbial loop that fits into every thread.

Oh come on. That sounds kind of hypocrite. This thread has several regulars that really like to have the last word in any discussion (including me). It never stays at just voicing your opinion on these forums. It always becomes a long discussion. Often by several people who derail someone elses thread with a bloody long quoting chain (regulars in this thread included).

Now, after reading some of the comments in this thread, I wonder where all these haters are that you are talking about. My impression is that there aren't that many. The people who voice their concerns about certain GW2 features or gamemechanics and eloborate why in their post,  are certainly not haters. I don't see it as black as white as some of you describe. Lot of the concerns are from players that are looking forward to GW2 but are concerned about certain aspects of it.

It is one of the things that a forum is about. Discussion. Get used to it.

Originally posted by Kuppa

I know, I need to join a support group asap....

lol

Originally posted by Herodes

What were the strong points of GW1 again?

Nice to meet you, Mr Besidesthepoint.

I wonder if the OP sees me as member of the 'hater community' too after I expressed my concerns about the cash shop gems in GW2? The only reason why I bother doing that is obviously because I care for the game.

Now, if you will excuse me , I need to report back to the Waaahmbulance where the Grand Hate Inquisitor and Honourable Ragequitter Arrghh Derpyderp resides.

Looks awesome. Nice to see Prince Rurik having district named after him :) Can't wait to see Lion's Arch though. From what I've seen in older vids, that city might even look more impressive. I really hope that Lion's Arch will function as the main hub for all races in the game.

Oh and on a sidenote : I don't think the humans moved from Ascalon to Divinity Reach? Ascalon was destroyed in the searing (start of Prophecies in GW) and those ppl from that city were refugees hidden in some villages I think. You encounter those after you reach Lion's Arch. I remember only Divinity Coast in GW1, which is just a mission area.

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by NMStudio

Originally posted by someforumguy

Nice, but this interview does not really address my concerns about how the gems can affect player economy.

The gems will dictate the entire economy, encouraging people to buy them, thus making the company money just as they intended.

This may even be true. But my question is: So?

 

Let's look at a few facts.

 

1) Yes, kids, Anet wants to make money. Holy crap, a business wanting to make money! What a terrible thing! This by itself is not bad. It's how they choose to go about it that will make all the difference.

2) OK, so gems may become the backbone of the economy. But with "free" players buying gems with gold, they can essentially earn anything in the cash shop without spending a single rl dollar. And "cash shop" players can earn gold...which is only as effective as the playet market makes it. The players buying gems on the market- that is the "free" players...will be the ones determining the flow of the economy. So the "cash shop" players won't rule the game economy that easily.

3) The cash shop items will not signifigantly impact play. Yes you can earn XP a little faster. Let's say it takes you 30 days normally to hit cap. And let's say a player uses xp boost potions the ENTIRE time. The boost is what, 20% That means that player will cap 6 days faster. I've heard some arguments that imply that player has 6 days to farm up millions of gold and gain utter supremacy of the in game market, but I don't buy it. Yes you can earn karma faster, but Anet has told us time and again gear will not rule gameplay the way it does in, say, wow. If they are telling the truth a player who gets a full set of top end karma gear a day or two ahead of others will not, very likely, rule the game forever.

Allow me to reiterate these are both temporary bonuses. Once the rest of the server catches up, they lose whatever they gained from this. It just helps them get there a little faster. Nothing more. It saves time, and therefore its value is only the worth of your time. It does not impact the game.

4) I will make the excepting for the chest keys and loot bags. Depending on theirdrop tables, these COULD have a signifcant impact on play. We will have to wait and see what they offer, and judge from there. 

 

I understand it from a business point of view (Please never use 'kids' again when adressing me, you are not one of my parents so it can only mean that you meant it derogatory, which is an insult).

I also agree that it sounds nice on paper when Anet tells us that :

- selling gems for ingame gold, doesnt add extra gold to the economy.

- players have the chance to buy cash shop items with ingame gold, without paying a dime.

This kind of talk annoys me. It is onesided. The whole point of a cash shop is to make sure that the available items in it are in demand and that new items are added regurarly. This is what will be the main incentive for players to farm (community always surprises devs with what they come up with) extra gold for cash shop items.

So yeah, the exchange of gems for gold does indeed not add additional gold to the economy. That is because it was already farmed before that. It also doesn't leave the economy with the exchange for gems. It is surplus gold that is used to buy gems with. Lots of gold that flows into the hands of possible new players that get become rich at lvl1. This will have an effect on playerprices for ingame loot. Or if there is no interesting loot, the economy will basically be about gems<->gold. I don't know what is worse.

The main thing is that gems being tradable for gold means faster gold creation then intended for the game's design. Gold sinks are fixed prices, which means faster inflation (compared to having no gems) is the only possible result. At some point Anet will act to counter the rate of gold creation. Will they nerf gold drops in areas which become known for farming? Will they raise gold sinks? Whatever they will do, it will likely affect the players who chose to ignore the cash shop the most.

This is my main concern about the cash shop. I dont care about the megaphone, keys and that shit. That is much easier to adress later on. The possible gem problem not so easy. Not without affecting players that want to ignore the buy ingame gold thing.

Guess it depends on what goals you set for yourself in a MMO. Some players see competition everywhere in a game, PVE, playertrade, PVP. Others only see it where you actually do combat against other players. I only see competition in PVP. Because in that situation every player is aware of the competition. Which is not the case in PVE.

PVP:

- I find P2W the most disruptive if cash shop items affects PVP. It is usually the only situation where I would talk in terms of P2W.

PVE:

- If players can buy their way into the economy. In PVE and playertrade I can get concerned if cash shop items have an influence on player economy. I wouldn't use the abbreviation P2W though. Because there is nothing really to win (I don't see how you 'win' from a different player who didn't even realise he was taking part in a competition:p ).

- If players can buy their way to the end of the game. XP potions or other buffs that speed ups some form of progress. These confuse me the most. It makes me wonder if the devs slowed down progression as much as possible to make those consumables more in demand. Without slowing it down too much so that players get bored and quit right away ofc.

(For GW2 cash shop I only worry about being able to buy your way into player economy and causing faster inflation, I don't see P2W there)

Nice, but this interview does not really address my concerns about how the gems can affect player economy.

AO is quite dated as MMO. While the skillsystem gives a player a lot of options, the lvling does not. The road through the best gear is as lineair as it can get. Even more so for froobs. The lvlbrackets in which you can obtain specific mission rewards is even worse in that aspect. (Make sure you don't miss the concrete cushions! before you outlvl those missions)

To me it is outdated because as new player you would have to study the game on forums first before you start to play, unless you don't mind to miss a lot of oppurtunities.

I could add for 26 points when I first checked HoM. Just had to get one additional armourset and dedicate some minipets i obtained over the years. My favourite rewards will be the fellblade and UW black widow spider for nostalgia reasons.