I have to disagree with the poster who said EoF was a failure and that EQ2 was loosing subscriptions as a result.  I am one of the players who have returned to the game, purely because of the success of the expansion.  You say that most people were annoyed that there was not any content for level 70 players, but the expansion prior to this one 'KoS', was almost exclusively for top-end players, which was the case for the first expansion (Deserts) as well.  SOE released Echoes purely to address this imbalance, and give some attention to the lower level players, as well as include new starting zones, and a completely new race, so that players could roll a new character, and take them from 1-70 entirely in the new areas.

As far as I am aware, this was applauded by most players, and it showed that the dev's were not just pandering to the top-end elite.  As for EQ2 leaking players?  Sure, the initial sheen of Echoes has probably worn off, that coupled with the success of WoW's Burning Crusade, as well as the new MMO; Vanguard, has probably meant that the 'honeymoon' period of Echoes has passed.  However, I think that if anything, EQ2's player-base is growing in size, not shrinking.

I was intrigued by an advert proclaiming that this game had over 70 million subscribers worldwide.  I thought that WoW, with its 8.5 million was the largest MMORPG.  So, seeing as it was free to play, I have just began to download this game.

I was wondering what your opinions were of it.  Is it your typical grind-fest, along the lines of FFXI and Lineage 2, or is it more like EQ2 and WoW?  What is the community like?  And any tips for a beginning player would be appreciated.  Especially if anyone can tell me if there is a solo-able class, as a lot of my MMO time is spent solo-ing.

My two favourite MMO's are:

WoW, and EQ2. 

My least favourite (I'm selecting this from out of the non-free games) actually there a couple, it would have to be Matrix Online, and Lineage 1

Originally posted by Bloodastral
I have to agree with the kid. Mmorpg's are falling short. As an old AD&D player I think the only people qualified to build a mmorpg are DM's. World builders before the advent of mmorpgs. Closest game i've played that has any staying factor is AC1. EQ2 was terrible like a dog chasing it's tail, round and round a small area completing a myriad of unrewarding quests. Guess i'm now waiting for something epic and I think it'll be a long wait, at least i'll have a PS3 to amuse me.

I have to agree with you, Bloodastral.  I used to love the old Ad&D pen and paper game, which is what got me into computer rpg's in the first place.

There is definitely an void in the MMORPG's imagination department, and I feel as though this is a genre that has so much promise.  It seems though that too many companies are trying to emulate WoW's success, and won't risk pushing the envelope when it comes to developing new MMO's.  I've no doubt that there will be a new, ground-breaking game in the MMORPG genre, just that at the moment, I cannot see where it is going to come from.

I do disagree about EQ2, although I know what you mean about the quests.  The problem is that most MMO's are the same.  I think that EQ2 is actually one of the best MMO's around.  Still waiting for my 'Holy Grail' game though.

Most recently, I have had problems getting registered with Grand Esprit (hope that's the correct spelling).  It seems you have to register with a company first.  I filled in the application, and was sent an e-mail, complete with an access key, and link to activate it.  By following the link I was taken back to square one, and the application stage.  There does not seem to be a place for me to enter the access key, and therefore I cannot get registered to play the damned thing!

This same problem has happened to me with a couple of other Asian MMO's as well.  I think it must be a problem with translation, and was just wondering how people manage to get registered.

So after the umpteenth time trying to log-in to Monato Esprit, I decided to raise this topic, to see if anyone else is having this problem.  There are several, Asian MMO's, which look very promising.  Now, I have downloaded the client, and the problems begin once I register.

The initial stages are basic enough.  I fill in the questionaire, along with security questions.  However, when it comes to playing the game, I am back to square one, and being asked to register all over again.  Even when I do get a confirmation e-mail, complete with access key, I click on the forwarding link, and I am back to filling in the questionaire again!

Is this a translation problem?  Has anyone else experienced difficulty getting registered to play an Asian MMO, and if so, how did you manage to get around this problem?

Did anyone see the 'big guy' that was inadvertantly shown? 

It's been a long time since I last played Warhammer, but didn't it pass more than a close resemblance to one of the Demon Lord dudes? 

I wish I had been around for the halcyon days of EQ, as I think I would have loved that.  Sadly, I was late in getting to the MMORPG scene (or early, depending on how you look at it), and to me, I have never felt the level of immersion in a game that I would expect.  It's strange that to date, the genre does not seem to have ensnared my interest to the same degree which single player RPG's have (such as Baldur's Gate II).

At the moment, the closest MMO environment to capture my imagination has been EQ2.  If the quests were not of a set type, and more involving (rather than just a formula, with you basically accepting or refusing), then I would be in rpg Heaven.  Also WoW, on the rp-specific, Moonglade server.

I've been terribly disappointed by titles such as D&D Online, but am still hopeful that there will be that 'must have' game in the near future.  Until then, I shall make do with EQ2 and WoW.

I really enjoy reading this form of journal.  It manages to portay the story of your character's exploits whilst managing to convey information about the class, and game.  At the moment, I am currently an elf, although only level 6, and still reserving my judgement of the game overall.  I do think that is has a lot of potential, and it is the lure of the interactive quests which I shall be paying particular attention too.  I do like the instanced, cut-scene events, which occur occassionally at key points in the story.  My elf began life at the battle which you spoke of in the journal, and after finishing the instance, I really liked the fact that as an elf, I could now revisit the same place many years on, and see the difference in the place.

Hope to read more about your travels, and I think it is time for me to get back to my elf, Farforien of Rivendell.

Please bear in mind that I have only played for several hours, and as a level 4 character, (and since the game is still in beta), it shall be a while yet before I can draw any firm conclussions.

What I can tell you, is that as you are a seasoned WoW player, you will find the interface amazingly similar.  So much so, that you will not even need to read the instructions to play.  When I first logged into LotR, I thought I was playing WoW, but with different graphics!  I am a WoW player, amongst others, and this was a major disappointment for me, as my inital impressions were that my fears had been realised.  That they had cashed in on the franchise, and were using the WoW interface so that basically it was WoW in Middle Earth.  Where were the in-game cineamitcs I had been promised?  Where was the immerisive story that took away the grind feeling of most MMO's?  Well, I thought I had been cheated, although on playing a little more, I discovered that maybe I had been hasty to judge. 

The cineamtics will no doubt be introduced closer to actual launch, and the framework of the quest system is definitely more involving than the standard MMO's.  A lot of the side quests still require the 'fetch x' and 'kill y' type, offered by all the other games.  I am hoping that this is just a rare occurance, required to level your character, and that the main focus will be on the actual story of your character.

At the moment, I would equate it to the more fun Draenei quests of WoW's expansion; Burning Crusade.  There is a more adult feel to the game as well, which I am also hoping will be replicated by the community.  At the moment, in beta, people are too busy exploring, killing things, and basically finding their feet to bother with the community aspect.  I was worried about this, but I then thought that it was only to be expected in beta.  As yet, I haven't even seen another player speak to another, but it is early days.

The Tolkien fans will no doubt make up a large part of the community, and therefore, I am confident that it will be a mature one, which will lend itself perfectly to this game.  There should be ample oppertunities for role-playing and also The Fellowship system seems to be a nice feature, although I am not too familiar with it yet.

The graphics?  Will this is a bit of a mixed bag in my opinion.  They are almost like a cross between WoW and EQ2.  It should run smoothly, even on the less powerful computers, but I was looking for a bit more beauty and would not have minded if they had been closer to the quality of EQ2, or Oblivion, even at the expense of performance.  Tolkien's world is one of beauty, and marvel.  Filled with glorious locations that should leave you gawping in wonder.  I have visited the Shire, and seen a part of the Elven lands, and so far, they are not at all awe-inspiring, yes they can be pretty, especially some of the backdrops, but for a next-gen MMO, I was expecting more.  Again though, remember that it is still in beta, and that I have not seen a lot of what is going to be a surprisingly large game.

In summing up then, to compare it to another game?  Yes, it is definitely very close to WoW, but like a previous poster wrote, with a more adult feeling.

Hope this helps you out.  Now that the beta is open, you should definitely give it a try, and let my know your opinion.

There's been a couple of titles which I have been keeping an eye on.  WAR happens to be one of them, and from this press conference, my interest has grown even further.

The other big title I was really hoping would be my 'Holy Grail' of MMO's was Lord of the Rings.  I have been graciously given a beta key, and at the time of writing I have only just started trying it, so I cannot give an informed comment about it, just yet.  I do know, however, that it is not going to be the phenomenom that I thought it might have been.  Which means that Turbine is now definitely not on my Christmas card list.  (What with them wasting another great MMO premise in Dungeons & Dragons Online).  That said, I still think LotR will be a good game, just not the revoloution which I thought it might have been.

So, a different publisher (thank God) is dealing with the third of my favourite childhood franchises, that being Warhammer.  I still have found memories of painting the little minitures, and having table-top wars.  Not to mention the superb pen and paper rpg, which I understand has been relaunched. 

Ever since I first played Warcraft 2 (I missed the first one), I always thought that it was a bit of a clone of Warhammer.  In the ensueing years, it has become a monstrous, marketing franchise, and whether you love it or hate it, there is no denying that World of Warcraft is a sensation.  I have been playing for over a year now, and that along with EQ2, are the only MMO's I've stuck with long term.

It would take something really special to get me to switch my 'virtual playgrounds' for a new one, and as my wallet is not too full, I would have to drop one of these subscriptions. 

What intrigues me about WAR is that it really is the 'daddy' of Warcraft.  I don't think it will be my 'Holy Grail', just because I don't think it will be heavily rp based.  However, neither is WoW.  So my dilema will be which one to choose.  Of course, it is too early for me to judge WAR yet, but I have a good feeling that this may give WoW a good run for its money.  The two games are so similiar in many ways, that in the end it will just boil down to which is the best.  A lot of people are proclaiming that this will be the unofficial 'WoW2', and I shall have to wait to find out for myself.  The signs are looking good though.  Players into their pvp are going to get plenty of reasons to battle it out with each other, as I doubt that there will be an 'uneasy' truce between the two opposing sides.  The game itself, although I do not think will be reinventing the genre, does have some very clever naunces, like the evoloution and aging of characters.

Also, because the original Games Workshop product was the inspiration behind Blizzard's Warcraft series, I think it feels more robust.  Almost like a more serious WoW.  I like this, and think that it lends it some feeling of gravitas, which is lacking in WoW. 

So basically, will this be a slicker, more advanced, better version than WoW?  I won't know until at least I get into beta.  One thing is for sure though, if this is done well, and by all accounts it seems to be, there is going to be a new heavyweight in town, just spoiling for a fight!

Originally posted by wormywyrm

Well its aimed heavily at the casual gamer, which means it feels sorta linear, but still very pretty and definitely polished.  it does have a fun /music system and interesting new feature 'monster play' but besides that it feels pretty standard linear mmorpg.  Its big selling point is the LOTR title, which it does live up to:  A great representation of Middle Earth.  You can really tell they wanted to make the game world match Middle Earth, and IMO its awesome.

So if you are coming from WoW or at least enjoyed WoW, or you are a casual gamer looking to dabble in mmorpgs, this will be especially good for you.  If you are a LOTR fan and a hardcore gamer, it'll be worth your time although you'll probably end up feeling like 'it could have been better'.  If you love sandbox mmorpgs and creative new mmo concepts you probably dont want to try this one unless you are especially interested in the idea of monster play (which is sorta like RTS player vs RPG players).  If you are a role player, LOTRo has some good tools and the world is very complete, you might find a new home away from home.    Hope I helped and I hope I'm somewhat accurate.

Thanks for the information, it gave me a good idea of what to expect, and I am guessing that you have tried beta.  There is one thing though that I am extremly curious about, and wondered if you, or anyone else, can tell me about.  It's this storyline idea.  The way the game is centered around character developement more than just leveling, and statistics.  I would love that, especially if it comes complete with in-game, cut-scenes to add drama to the story.  So can you tell me more about this side of the game, and the quest system?  It is probably the role-player in me, but I have been looking for a game that incorporated this for ages.

I like the feeling that a game is non-linear, and I read that the myriad side-quests would give this feel.  The only problem I have with 'sandbox' type games, especially in a fantasy genre, is that they give a random, but less specific game and story.  To explain what I mean by this, take a look at the new premium module for Neverwinter Nights called 'Infinite Dungeons'.  It is meant to create hundreds of hours of variety and although the player hundreds of options for tailoring the dungeon so that they never experience the same game twice.  This is true, but you are left with a game without much of a plot, and after awhile you get used to the random dungeons, and they become stale and boring.  Whereas in games such as Baldur's Gate 2, you had so many different paths, and choices to make that you felt the game changed depending on what you did.  Of course, the main plot was still the same, but your path to it did not have a linear feel to it.  If LotR can mimic that feeling of verismilitude, then I am going to be a very happy bunny!

Re the poster who said that Lord of the Rings was going to be another WoW clone.  I, too, shared your opinion.  I thought it would just be WoW, but dressed up in Tolkien's world.  Then I noticed an article on this very web-site, and my opinion has changed.  So much so, that I am waiting with bated breath for open beta.

Okay, I am going to try and keep this reasonably short as my pc is crashing at every oppertunity!

For a long time now I've been looking for an MMO that is something a more aligned with the story immersion of certain, single-player RPG's.  I just thought that the current stock of games were just a tedious series of quests, with minimal story and drama.  I'm amazed that devs do not tap into the player's imagination more, as I notice that when BC came out for WoW, a lot of players were loving the new quests, and the way that the npc's seemed to be more ' alive'.

Now I have heard a great deal about the in game cineamtics of LotR and the emphasis of character developement, via storylines.  All with their little sub-plots, etc.  This coupled with being able to explore a world which has been fueling my imagination for many years (I've always imagined what it would be like to have a little house in Hobbiton or to see the splendour of Rivendell), means that I am getting very excited by this product.

It will even contain some staples of the MMO genre, so it should please most people. 

I know that Turbine made a pig's ear of another franchise with immense potential, namely D&D, but by all accounts, it seems that they have learnt their lesson.

Is this going to be the One Game to Rule them All?

I for one, am keeping my fringers crossed.

I also have experience with both of these games, and as many of the previous posters have covered most of your questions, I shall try and keep this concise and to the point.

I really do not think that you can bracket the two games under the same banner, and it depends entirely on what type of MMO player you are, as to which game you should play.

Simply put - WoW is an easy to pick up and play game.  It is very friendly to the casual player, and does not need a lot of time and effort in order to get anywhere.  The EU community which I play on does have it's fair share of morons, as does any MMO, but I find playing on a RP specific server, such as Moonglade, that you have a lot less griefers, and a more friendly and helpful environment.

FFXI on the other hand, does require a lot of time and effort.  If you are a hardcore gamer, then this will provide enough 'meat on  the bones' to keep you going for ages.  I personally found it frustrating that after a certain level, you basically were required to party, and I did find it a bit of a time sink.  Do not get me wrong, I enjoyed my stay with FFXI, just that it was not suited to my gamestyle.

I have downloaded the trial, and I must admit that my initial impression is one of disppointment.   There is so much that a DDonline game could offer, and I am not sure if this will deliver.

The graphics are fine, although the text is quite archiac and difficult to read, as though it is from an old Might and Magic game of years ago.  The lack of voice acting was a let down,  as well as the cluttered to feel to the game.  It just doesn't feel like what a D&D world should.  Huge and expansive, filled with intrigue.

It is still very early days though, and there are some good signs.  The DM's voice, and the feeling of atmosphere when you enter an instance is excellent.  The way you have to think about how to tackle problems is also good.  The game itself though, does feel rather lifeless, the npc's seem to just be stock characters, there to give you quests or act as vendors.  Also, the Eborron campaign is an unusual choice, and not a setting I particularly like.  I cannot help but feel they would have been able to tap into a much greater market by using one of the more established campaigns.

Like I say, I am just at the beginning of my travels in Stormreach (level 2 cleric).  I shall have to put in a lot more time, before I draw up my final conclusion.

There is one thing I have noticed though, and it is potentially a great, big cowpat of a problem.  I expected the DD Online experience to have a vibrant role-playing community.  Afterall, was that not the point of making a lot of the material un-soloable?  You would create an adventuring group,  just like in the actual pen and paper game, and explore the dungeons and adventures together.

I witnessed absoloutely no role-playing.  What was worse, I found that the party members were all just forming PUGS to blitz through well-known instances, and did not care a jot for the actual story or the game.  It was like Guild Wars, but enclosed in a city.  Actually, it was more akin to Diablo II in that respect than GW, for people were replaying the same instances. 

If I can find a good role-playing party, of my level, who are interested in experiencing the game, without just doing 'runs', then I could see some potential.

I know it seems as though I have made my mind up already, but I am still going to keep playing, and hope that I discover the real game.

Ironically, tonight I read about another game from Turbine, and another franchise I grew up with.  The Lord of the Rings.  After hearing some early reports on this game, I am extremely excited about it.  Perhaps this will be the game I wished Stormreach was.

I'll post again, with my full opinion after the trial has ended.

I've been a fan of D&D since I was a kid, playing first and second edition versions of the pen and paper game.  I thought that this game would rule when it came out, as afterall, this is the daddy of the genre.

However, I have been put off buying it, because of all the negative comments about it, especially when it first came out.  Now I keep hearing of the free content that is updated regularly.  Is this in the form of module type adventures?  If so, has the new content improved the game.  I really wanted this one to be good, but it sounds as though NWN may be a better option.

Have they managed to change it around with the free game content, and if so, what is the new content? 

Or am I going to be getting the same sort of disappointment when I played Pools of Radiance expecting a Baldur's Gate 2 rival?

I haven't had a chance to read all the poss yet, but when I first read Joe's article I was wondering if he was being serious.

I'm a casual player, and it doesn't really bother me who has what gear, although I can see why it would irritate some people who try to play the games fairly.

What irks me, is that when people are using these gold buying/powerleveling web-sites they are ensuring that our games are being plagued by bots.

People either using third party programs to keep up with the gold buyers, or mostly the actual people who run the sites.  Now, if you are judging it from WoW, you probably see the odd bot running around like a headless chicken, and it doesn't appear to be much of a problem, but look at the other games where bots have just about destroyed the games.  I presume you have not played Lineage 2?

That game is indicative of what happens when this problem is not nipped in the bud.  Not only is there very few real people, as most are bots (thus not much of a community, which a lot of people play MMO's for in the first place), but  it also destroys a servers economy.  Items in L2 are too over priced so that even the top end players cannot afford to buy top grade gear (as it literally costs millions of adena - their equivalent of gold).  So if you are happy with this, then keep supporting the gold farmers, and soon your game will become over-run too.

On a personal level, I think it's a bit sad if you feel the need to pay real money for money in a game.  It's like playing a game of monopoly and slipping the player who is the banker some real cash for some monopoly notes. 

Apart from the fact that it is cheating, but I guess the previous posts have covered all of those implications.

As for the example of the game that uses real money to buy in game items?  Well, you can hardly compare that to the gold sellers, as this is a legitimate aspect of that particular game, and probably how the company manages to fund it.  So when you play that type of game you realise that you are probably going to have to deal with that as a consequence of getting to play the game for free.

And as usual in this arguement, there will probably be (I will read the posts after I've written this one) those people who claim that they are just wanting to be able to keep up with their in-game buddies so they can continue to raid together.  So, are certain people allowed to break the rules because of their situation?  Bit of a selfish attitude that.

Simply put, if it's against the rules of the game, then it's cheating, and by supporting the gold farmers, you are ruining the game for everyone else so you can have your fun.

I'd like to see something that is brave enough to break away from the current mold.  Something with the real game physics of Oblivion, coupled with an immersive, role-play storyline.  Something that is non-linear, and where player's actions actually govern how the world will evolve, so that devs can incorporate it into updates and expansions.  A game with hired, or vulonteer GM's to take the roles of npc's and do live events, or even allow them the ability to take over different npc's so that even something like going to the shop could end up with something happening.  Cut-scenes and in-game movies developed in advance, for if players unlock secret parts of the game.  And a million other things.  All probably not practical for a long time yet.

In the meantime, I'd like to see these new batch of MMO's take the genre forward.  Age of Conan, Warhammer, LoTr, and Chronicles of Spellborn are the ones I am keeping my eyes on at the moment.