Originally posted by precious328

 I still cannot believe AAA games shun such characteristics. They turn games from virtual worlds to gigantic co'op RPGs.

       I've been saying this for years! Dev's have taken the MMO out of the RPG and turned them into a hybrid mix of FPS and MMOG,, but I like your phrasing better,  "gigantic co'op RPG's..  This is why I'm not currently subbed to any MMO's at the moment,, and who knows If I ever will sub again ;/

Great thread! Sadly, but I agree as well! It's not everyone, but many ppl who play MMO's play them for their own reasons,, most just want to pvp, some just want to play a structured rpg, and some just want to play to troll the chat channel and cause trouble...  Most don't play just for the simple fact to enjoy everything the game has to offer...

Originally posted by Sephastus

"You should never meet your hero." - Paul Newman

It is impossible for this game to live up to the hype it has generated. It has been romanticized to a fault, and the expectations people have put on it go way beyond what a game can pull.

You will not wake up twitching to try to get your dose of GW2. You will not sleep better because of your accomplishments in game. You will not give up your job, family, friends and physical well-being just to get in a few more hours of game time.

        This is pretty much what the original EQ did to me, lol.. In a way, I'm happy there hasn't been a game that made me feel like this after I quit EQ.. But do i think GW2 will have this type of effect? Nope, not in the slightest...

Back when I played the original EQ, I accumulated over 800k plat.. 400k came when I sold one of the very few Scepter of Destructions on my server.. Eventually after selling the plat on pa.com, I made roughly 10,000 dollars real life money.. So, to answer your question, If I became rich on a MMO that is popular, I'd sell the money online for real life money.. Scre buying virtual stuff in game if i can turn those virtual dollars into real life dollars...  Unfortunately, gold selling, item selling, and account selling is nothing what it used to be 10 years ago. :/

I went back to WoW in October. After spending 3 weeks without logging in, I canceled my account.. 

Now I'm heading back to EQ2... I read a little about the new expac and I'm looking forward to starting a Beastlord!!

So, I recommend EQ2.. :)

What a ridiculous thread..

I play MMORPG's because I love the whole medieval fantasy setting..

I don't play MMORPG's to get off on looking at cartoon characters, LOL.

Those that play MMORPG's to look at "what they call" girls and guys in sexy outfits all day long, really needs psychiatric help, period.. :/

Originally posted by troublmaker

I love how people are pretending that The Old Republic is the first MMO to do fully voiced quests.  Age of Conan has had it for years now with better graphics.

Guess we're just sweeping poor little old AoC F2P under the rug.

       EQ2 has voiced npc's and that came out in 2004....

I didn't buy TOR but I beta tested it for 3 months or so...

I'd rate TOR as follows:

As a single player RPG it's an 8.5.. The storylines are very entertaining and fun. Graphics belong in 2000, but I enjoy a good story when playing single player RPG's, which is why it gets an 8.5 "as a single player rpg"

As an MMORPG I'd rate the game a 3.5.. Most of the game is played alone but with some MMORPG elements thrown in..  Very very cheesey and ridiculous If you ask me..

Add those two scores up and divide it by 2 and you get a combined rating of 6.0

IMHO, TOR deserves an overall rating no higher than a (((((((((6.0)))))))))

When you are finished your class quest, fully developing your character, and reached max level, the game becomes a (((1))) If playing your main..

After you complete your class epic quest, you'll quickly find out there's really nothing left to do except roll another class and start over.. 

But the so called experts at MMORPG among others state this sloppy mess of an MMORPG deserves a 8.5 rating??? Seriously??

Who in the world is rating the game? The boss's 8 year old son/daughter?  0-o

As a single player RPG I'd rate it a 8.5

As a MMORPG I'd rate it a 3.5

Combine those ratings together and you have a:

6.0

The game deserves no higher than a 6..

If you played TOR through its storyline, it quickly becomes a 1...

So, after a month or two, no one in their right mind would have any real desire or passion to log on their "main" anymore,, unless your two boxing and plan on power leveling another class. :P

Originally posted by WesKhan1

1) People who have enough money to not care.

2) People whose standards for MMO's are far far far lower than gamers back in the DAoC and UO days.

3) People who don't realize they're condoning bad game development and allowing these developers to continue to milk the bullshit themepark cookie-cutter MMO design that's ruined this genre.

Yup, these people paying for this game are now letting the companies develop a single player game, throw a tiny bit of multiplayer on top, call it an MMO, and then charge $15 a month for it.  And it WORKED.  Prepare for more.

Even though I want to blame the MMO gamers of this age for paying for the games in the first place, it's hard to put the blame on them.  They have different standards and that's all there is to it.  And you can't blame the companies for wanting to make tons of money.  So screw it, gotta accept the complete trash this genre has become.  They won't get my money though.

From Ultima Online to this.  Jesus Christ people just take a look it's not that hard to see.

        I agree 100%, WesKhan...

       We went from legendary MMO's of UO, EQ, and Daoc to straight up crap... EQ2 wasn't bad, but SOE screwed that up by putting in the ridiculous mentor system which IMHO ruined EQ2 for me.. Everything became so much easier when doing dungeon runs, heritage quests, etc..

      I may be waaaay off here, but I personally feel the MMO genre of today combined FPS and MMO elements and what we got is this EZ mode themepark rollercoaster cookie cutter hold your hand, wipe your nose, tie your shoes, pre school mode of hybrid games..

      Personally I was never a real fan of Counter Strike, Doom, Duke Nukem, Rainbow Six, Team Fortress, etc.. I loved RPG's growing up, and was an avid reader of fantasy novels... So when UO came out, it was like living in my very own fantasy world.. Same thing with EQ, even though the content was more structured than UO..

I have friends and family who loved these fast paced FPS games.. Back when I played EQ, none of those friends and family could get into EQ.. They claimed it was a boring waste of time and too hard to play... Guess what? When WoW came out, all of them jumped on the MMORPG bandwagon and most are pretty much now back to playing FPS games like Halo, Call of Duty, Battlefield, etc.. Some still play WoW, a couple are currently playing TOR, but none of them would ever choose to play a fantasy MMORPG like EQ where the main focus is to explore and interact with other people and group up.. They don't like sandbox mmo's, they prefer EZ mode roller coaster rides where they don't have to use their brain to accomplish their goals within the game.. 

This is why the MMO's of today can't really keep subscribers past 3-6 months, unless your playing World of Warcraft.. How many WoW clones have we seen in the past 7 years become a F2P ghost town or remain a sub based ghost town??? Pretty much every single one..  So you do the math and tell me what went wrong.. ^_^

Dev's need to start making games strictly for one type of fanbase. I'm sick of seeing these hybrids.. If you plan on creating a MMORPG which takes elements from D&D and modern fantasy mythology, then please make it a sandbox type of game.. If your main focus is pvp with little pve, then by all means create a epic rollercoaster fps style game.. Don't try to trick your playerbase by saying it's a pve/pvp game that will appeal to both PVE roll playing fans and fps pvp fans!! Because I personally know the game will NOT appeal to both types of gamers.. If it does, it will only be interesting for about a month maybe two at max before we both get bored and come on these forums complaining about what it needs and shouldn't have in game..

Dev's need to seriously go back to the basics in my opinion. Yea their goal is to make lots and lots of money, but they should also care about creating a legendary epic game where players feel happy to log into every day for years, not just a couple months!

To the OP,

Now that 2 million + people have tried TOR and found out just how small the game really is as a MMORPG, I'd wager most people that left Rifts are back now....

To the guy above me, I played with some really horrible clerics in Rifts.. Clerics who had no idea how to properly set up their class to heal.. I remember doing Fae dungeon and we had two clerics in group.. I was the tank, "Pally" so I even had a little healing.. We couldn't get past the first boss because both healers just weren't specced to,,,, heal.. They made themselves dps clerics..

So, just because you play a cleric doesn't mean your a good healer in groups. :P If your specced for soloing, then u might as well not even LFG as a healer... I'm sure most of you hea;ers out there know what i'm talking about..

Originally posted by ezduzit

Why dont you just admin you only played WoW in your MMO lifetime?

       WoW was the 10th or so MMO I've played.. The first was UO, followed by EQ.. Both were the greatest MMO's I've ever had the privilege of playing.. Those two games were legendary in my eyes,, EQ moreso than UO, IMHO...

      I don't really understand why you think I've only played WoW, lol. It's mind boggling really to the point where it's would be pointless trying to argue over.. I've played roughly I dunno, 24 or so MMO's and WOW does rank up in the top 5, but definitely not higher than UO, EQ, DAOC, and EQ2 for me personally...

Originally posted by mrpoepoe

Trains in Blackburrow...dying at the bottom of the sea, EverQuest wasn't a game it was a way of life. No MMO has ever come close to it - great article, very interesting stuff.

 

    I agree 100%.... People today don't understand how EQ felt more of living in a second world than just playing a video game.. Nothing has ever come close to what EQ felt like to me..  In a way, that's a good thing.. If there was a true successor to EQ, I probably would be without a job and homeless right now, lol..  I was so addicted to EQ, I'd normally play for 15 hours straight on average..  In the summer when school was out, there were times I played for more than 24 hours straight,, only stopping to relieve myself and grab something to eat/drink, lol...

I'm sad but also kind of relieved there has never been a game released quite like it.. In my opinion, MMO's are not even close of what they used to be and used to mean to the person.. They are now shallow quick themeparks with no character whatsoever..

Originally posted by Kaocan

Wait, so the reason you lost interest is because you ran out of carrots to lead you around? When you had to play the game instead of being led around by the leash? Amazing. Thats almost as good as the other thread today where people are complaining that there is TOO much leveling content in this game, which they blew past to reach cap, and are now complaining there isn't enough content. You guys are just amazing!

          1) That is the problem with today's generation of MMO gamers... MMORPG's were meant to be a giant sandbox where the player is highly encouraged to "EXPLORE" the land and to be on one giant lifelong "ADVENTURE"  Games like UO and Everquest, both different in their own right but both similar in the fact that the player understood that their character is supposed to feel as If your in a  living, breathing virtual reality world... That's what made MMO's fun for me and many other people who were fans of the genre...

Nowadays, new mmo gamers mainly play the game just to pvp as if it's a fps style of game.. It's sickening.. It would be the same if fps games became more "story" oriented where you actually have to explore, level, and use your brain to proceed throuh the game. Current fps gamers would absolutely HATE to do that, lol...

It seems the OP has become upset due to TOR becoming an actual MMORPG after act 1.. It started to evolve from a single player rpg to an actual MMORPG, and the OP became frustrated, angry, and upset over this... It was to much for him that he canceled his account because the game wasn't playing him anymore.... ??? ??? Meaning, the game wasn't holding him by his little hand and blowing his nose, scrubbing his back, eating his food, combing his hair, tying his shoes, dressing him for school, and basically the game stopped being his little mommy.... LOL

Seriously, mods, devs, and fellow mmo gamers.. Look at what this genre has become.. It's sick and is why I've pretty much given up on MMORPG's.. They are to dumbed down and ez for people like this OP.. And this guy STILL canceled his account the moment the game started to become a MMORPG...  WOWZERS!!!

In the original Everquest, one had to explore the land to find quest givers. There was no shiny marker on the map displaying the quest giver, the location of the mobs he needs to fight, or a path to the destination.. You had to figure this out on your own by using your brain...  Seems this OP would have lasted 20 seconds in this game before becoming angry and canceling his account..

Back then, myself and many other true fans of the mmorpg genre would never want players like this playing thir game. Why? because these types of players do nothing but plague the game. We want those who are intelligent and actually a fan of the genre.. Were here to have fun and enjoy an epic experience.. We don't need players flooding the game who,

A: are not a fan of the  particular game's genre and playstyle

B: Expects a totally different gaming experiene than the way the game mechanics are implemented

C: Wants the game to be what they envision, but complain, cry, rant and rave over why the game in their eyes, "sucks"

I never enjoyed seeing anyone like this in my favorite MMORPG.. It not only creates arguments and problems, it ruins my fun factor and overall enjoyment of the game..  I enjoy seeing people in game who are having fun and enjoying themselves.. It enhances your overall fun factor..  This is what was so great about Everquest. Most people you played with enjoyed everything the game was, and didn't complain regarding what the game was NOT..

Nowadays, one cant even enjoy a game without hearing other people who are currently playing it,  bash and ridicule it for everything it's not..

I dont think they will shut the servers down and do a rollback, lol. That would result in thousands of very upset gamers. Some in which would cancel their accnts. Duping has been around forever, it won't go away. The only way to try to prevent this from continuing is for bioware to figure out the leak and plug it up hardcore.. And try finding those responsible and perma ban their accounts... 

I wouldn't let bioware pay ME to play TOR. ^_^

Honestly, I enjoyed Beta for a while and at the time I figured it was going to be the greatest single player RPG and MMO of all time... Then as I was leveling up, I realized just how one sided the game truly was.. It's more or less the sequel to KOTOR 2 with a rollercoaster mmorpg flavoring sprinkled on top.. 

I was trying to convince myself it will get better as I continued leveling, but everything was pretty much the same.. You really don't need to ever group, but guess u can say that about most so called MMORPG's these days.. MMO's of the past like Everquest, DAOC, Vanguard, EQ2, etc are basically of the past. These newer mmo's focus to much on ez mode soloing and racing to the top only to be disappointed with the lack of a worthy end game...

Anyway, I'm happy I got the chance to test TOR for a nice period of time because if i didn't, I would have bought the collectors edition and played it for a good 2 weeks before realizing how much I've been duped.. 

Those who decide to get the game need to realize its really a single player rpg with some mmo elements thrown in.. Don't expect it to be an awesome sandbox epic masterpiece, because it's not...

OP: Tell us something we don't know. ^_^

Sadly, TOR was never meant to be a sandbox.. It was designed to be a single player RPG with a rollercoaster MMO theme splashed in...

I do NOT support your anti elves, wizards, orcs, etc movement.. Why you ask? Well my friend, fantasy MMORPG's are supposed to be filled with everything that makes up mythology and fiction, hence elves, wizards, dragons, fairies, orcs, goblins, dwarves, magic, etc etc etc.... Without these elements in the game, what will make the game a fantasy mmorpg? lol..

If you want to play a mmorpg like Eve, Love, or any other non traditional fantasy style game, then that's fine, go and enjoy it....  But true fans of mmorpg's are those who started playing them with PnP D&D years and years ago.. My first role playing experience was when I was like 6.. It was the phantasy star series, followed by Shinging Force and Final Fnatasy "mystic quest" 

 In my own opinion, a MMORPG isn't truly a MMOG unless there is an assortment of mythological races, classes, quests, dungeons, and of course a livable breathable online world you share with thousands of other people...

How you felt about Eve is exaclty what I felt the first time I logged into the original Everquest 11 years ago....  To me, that is what a fantasy MMORPG should be...  Anything else isn't truly a fantasy mmorpg, in my mind.. :)

Originally posted by returnintor

I think, personally, having participated in two beta tests, we're going to see a massive dropping off of subscriptions in Month 2 (not Month 1, because people still won't be able to believe how shallow, small and limited the game is after just one month. They'll still be saying: 'This can't be it'). At around the Month 6, EA will be saying: 'Hmmm, let's make it F2P in Month 9".

I agree 100%....  After participating in beta and trying out 4 classes, I realized just how small the game really is.. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the fact its a full single player rpg trying to be a full MMORPG at the same time.. Honestly, I believe the ideas and features of TOR will possibly change how MMO's are made in the future.. Companies will see that in creating a full single player RPG that takes roughly 30-60 hours to complete their "epic class questline" in a subscription MMORPG will benefit the company in the long run... After 6 months, this company can then choose to make the game F2P and still make good money years later.... If the story is good, word will spread.. Then people who are currently bored with the mmo they are playing will go out and buy this newer mmo just for the story... They may even sub for a month two or three to finish their quest line...

BUT, once when they get to the end and realize there is really very little sandbox or even rollercoaster style MMOG elements, they will simply move on....

This is what will happen with TOR.. People will play until their story is over.. UNLESS, bioware is currently now working on new content such as end game raids, massive group dungeons, and pvp elements that will keep players active past the first month or two...

What do I see myself doing 6 months after TOR is released??

Hmm, well If things go according to my little plan, I'm hoping beyond all hope I'll be labeled as one of the many Guild War2coholics!!!!!!!! :)))

If Guild Wars 2 isn't out by then, I'll most likely be playing as a Monk in WoW :))

As for TOR, I literally now have no desire to play the game as a MMORPG... I plan to play throgh my storyline, then when it gets stale within a month, I'll quit..... 

Maybe not expecting anything from TOR is a great thing.. Maybe going into the launch with a mindset that it's mainly a story driven single player rpg will allow me to enjoy the game for what it is, and not complaining and crying over what my little vision can see it becoming...

Personally, after playing Beta for about a month and trying out 5 classes, there literally is nothing in that game I haven't really seen before in another mmorpg..  To me, WoW is actually more fun and addicting with the best lore/story I've ever experienced.. However, this isn't saying that I don't feel TOR's story will be good...  I just don't see this game at the way it was engineered and set up to challenge WoW in the long term...   This time next year I will predict out of the 3-5 million people that purchased the game at launch,,, there will be maybe,, just maybe 500,000 subs left around then.. Some new, and some old...  That's my prediction...

Well, heres to hoping 6 months from now I'll be loving GW2 or still enjoying WoW's new MOP expansion...