All Posts by Phos

I just wanted to give this old OLD thread a friendly bump since the actual release is starting to seem like a possible reality to stand by to stand by for a possible maybe on.

- Phos

---

Originally posted by fogelklou

If its anything like original UO items (armor/weapons) will be of little value to the winner and will thus be left on the corpse. Only a true griefer would strip you to the bones. Other items however will most certainly be looted, ie money, any rare armor/weapon (by god I hope those are rare and far between), reagents, potions etc. Anyways, armor/weapons shouldnt be an issue if the devs play it smart.

---

Agreed.

I understand how people get scared by FFA PvP and 100% corpse looting. In the current gaming culture, most MMOs are very gear-driven and gear-dependant. So the idea of someone killing you and lootin you is very frightening to people who don't know any other style of MMO.

But for those of you who've been playing since the early UO days, you know it can be WAY MORE FUN with an FFA PvP and 100% loot system when done right.

- Phos

No. It's all the little things that make WoW so successful. It was the next generation game of its time. It was the only fantasy MMO of its generation (UO and EQ1 were out, but WoW was the next gen... even though I think UO and EQ1 were better). WoW had very few glitches when it was released. Also, WoW had a really broad scope. It had aspects of PvP, PvE, crafting, a community, and more. (too bad it didn't have housing though.)

The problem with most new games is they're niche games. They focus on only one aspect of a game, they're not well rounded, and they fail. I have my PS3 for niche games. POTBS has great boat combat, but nothing else.

Lots of games tried to copy WoW's success, but they made stupid mistakes. The first obvious mistake is trying to copy the same genre. They should have tried to duplicate WoW's model, but in a different genre for sci fi gamers or some other type.

LOTRO came close, VG would have been close if it wasn't so glitchy, and EQ2 is a good game too, but the same genre as WoW. They're all the same genre as WoW. I won't mention AOC because the wound is still fresh and I don't want to turn this into a flame-fest.

The next "big thing" is going to have to be a well rounded game with few or no glitches, but of a DIFFERENT GENRE. There's lots of interest in all the space genre games in development now. When SWG was released, it had all the promise to be bigger than WoW. They fixed glitches quickly and were fairly attentive to the game. Then the developers went and screwed it all up. Lots of people want to like EVE too. (STO will suck I think).

- Phos

"im worried that this game wont live up to its hype"

No doy Ralph!

- Phos
(I love the '80s)

Slythe, this happens with every bad game release. Fanbois will defend it even after the bitter end (look at VG... that game was a flop, and people were still defending it months after release, kinda like Baghdad Bob after the invasion.)

AOC is no different.

I've noticed, however, that some gamers are becoming less emotionally attached and more objective. When POTBS released (and flopped), there were much fewer fanbois.

- Phos

---

Originally posted by Bronks
When you have to state that the material is a joke, you either have no faith in the value of the material or no faith in the audience to understand the material 

---

It seems, with some people, like it is impossible to avoid flames. Way to go!

- Phos

---

Originally posted by winter

---

Originally posted by Phos

They'll open later than soon unless, of course, the soon comes too fast, in which case they'll open later or on time.
And don't forget about the Myan calendar, closed super-secret European beta testing, recently bought licenses, and the power and enginuity of small motivated developers. These are factors.
I hope this clarifies things.
- Phos
 

---

 
 Humm so let me see if I'm getting this right. Darkfall is finally launched Dec of 2012 (the end of the Mayan calendar), and due to the enginuty of the extremly motivation aventurine developers to get it feature complete its actually a true AI that takes over, destroying mankind and the world as we know it? 

---

It's simple, don't overthink this:

If the game is released early, then it won't be on time. If it's on time, it can be perceived as late. It has been said that it won't be late, and that it's not been released on time repeatedly. Therefore it isn't early or on time, and it cannot be late. Simply apply the Mayan predictions to this timeline, and use an abacus to factor in the motivation of the developers who allegedly got a spy arrested, and you'll come to the scheduled release date.

Now, take that date and realize that it won't be early (underdeveloped and/or tested), late (simply a bad thing), or on time (hence perceived as late), and you will be left with only one date: The ACTUAL release date.

- Phos

Gamestop stock went up $2.80 today to $44.22

:)

- Phos

---

Originally posted by vernd
POTBS: game released with tons of bugs, developers failed to address them and support the game effectively
AOC: game released with tons of bugs, developers failed to address them and support the game effectively
See the pattern? You're right, we will see how it plays out with WAR and I don't doubt there will be a number of people here talking about niche this, epic fail that.  What it's going to come down to is the state of the game at release and Mythic's ability to squash the inevitable bugs without further breaking the game in the process.
Beyond that though, what's your cure for the malaise in the MMO market? Continually attempt to reinvent the wheel, despite almost direct clones of WoW failing to gain traction, even though they are relatively bug free? Perhaps we should declare WoW the winner and no new MMOs should be made. What is your intent here? You'll have to forgive me for not quite believing this discussion is really stemming from WAR's lack of housing and deep crafting, considering your apparent high estimation of WoW's quality even though it also lacks housing and meaningful crafting.

---

Good point about the developers failing to support games. Hopefully those lessons were learned for WAR. And no, it would be ridiculous to 'declare WoW the winner' and stop all development. The MMO industry is a vessel that will not stop... I'm just interested being part of the process of steering it and seeing where it is going.

My only intent here is the intent of anybody posting on forums at 1am... just to share thoughts, gain perspective from others, and alleviate boredom.

- Phos

---

Originally posted by syxx
 
More then 300k people a day play 2 hours of battlegrounds over raiding 25mans.  hell i'd bet on more then 5 million people spending more time in battlegrounds then raiding in WoW's current state.
The only way WAR will fail is if they have alot of server problems that limits playability week after week, or if its really buggy...either of which i dont see happening...EA aint gonna let WAR fail and they are a major player in this buisness.
As far as diverse i bet the crafting system a year from now will make wow's look like real crap.

---

I hope you're right. I'm really looking for a good new game to migrate all my friends to.

- Phos

---

Originally posted by vernd
 
You say that like it's a bad thing. In every industry there are the general practitioners and the specialists. Are you asserting that RVR gameplay is not enough for WAR to thrive, or even survive on? Because DAoC's fairly high regard amongst PVPers suggests otherwise.
Understand this: Mythic has a goal in sight.  That's to deliver the best World PVP/RVR game available on the market. Not deliver some watered own product that doesn't know what it wants to be.

---

POTBS: Specialist game that failed
AOC: Specialist game which is going down quickly

I'm sure there are more. What do the failures all have in common? They're recent releases. The niche games that were successes were released early in the history of MMOs (EVE, Planetside, DAOC, UO, etc.) WoW came on the heels of UO and has held the top spot ever since. Is it because it's BETTER than all the johnny-come-lately's? No... it's because it planted it's flag in the soil first and people are predictably afraid of change. Most people who've played newer games realize there are many better ones out there... yet WoW remains at the top.

So how is a new niche MMO supposed to compete in this environment? MMOs are expensive to make and there needs to be high initial subscribership ang longevity to make that money back. If you get the subscribership, it's easy to keep it if the game isn't broken.

We'll see how it plays out with WAR. There are lots of competitors to distract potential customers, and there is only a small core of elite gamers with a good appreciation for niche games.

- Phos

---

Originally posted by Magter
 
No one said it was going to be. What it will be is fresh and a new MMO based on open world RvR/PvP.
But IMHP, people will rather buy WAR than WotLK especially if it will be $50 like TBC.

---

Maybe. But people fear change. There are about 10 million subscribers to WoW. New games are considered highly successful if they get even 300,000 subscribers. A lot more people will buy the WOTLK expansion than WAR.

But I agree many higher-end gamers will defect to WAR. But I don't think it will be sustained for over 1 year at over 300,000 subscribers. It's just not diverse enough, and I have a bitter taste from the lessons learned over the past 2 years of super-hyped releases of games that ultimately sucked.

Maybe I'm just trying to stop this jinx by expressing it here. Who knows.

- Phos

---

Originally posted by vernd
As a counterpoint, there's nothing wrong with a developer picking a popular aspect of gameplay and striving to deliver the best product available for that market. I mean, when a new fighting game comes out on console you don't see people pissing and moaning about how it doesn't cater to fans of real-time strategy. They just go find a real-time strategy game.  Why should things be any different for MMORPGs?

---

Good point. I agree. But this is the very quality that boxes WAR into a niche corner that limits the spectrum of customers who might otherwise play it.

- Phos

I mean "mega" from a marketing perspective... not a "quality" perspective.

I respect the dissenting posts, but I'll refresh this thread in about a year when my point will have proven itself. This game will not be bigger than WoW, and it will not be better than UO was at it's height.

- Phos

I know lots of gamers irl. My brothers are MMO gamers, my G/F is a gamer, my nephew is a gamer, several of my longest friendships are with gamers, co-workers are gamers, etc. Some of us played computer games since before there were ever MMORPGs, we played D&D together, and started playing UO together, etc.

We all pay attention to up-and-coming games. Most games get good hype before release, but cannot sustain success. (ie: POTBS, Vanguard, etc). Games are released too early and no matter how good they fix it later, they no longer have the momentum for success... or there simply aren't enough customers to populate a good game and make it successful, etc.

So here's my point: We all agree that WAR will probably have some success when it's released... but then when I ask everyone, none of them actually plan to buy this game. Neither do I.

Why not? Lots of different reasons. Mainly: none of us will jump on board unless ALL of us want to jump onboard. This game targets such a specific gaming audience, it isn't broad enough to satisfy many interests. This is a game about large-scale faction-on-faction pvp (which, if you read between the lines, means lots of instances). Not too immersive, not very community-oriented, and not really designed for those who like housing and crafting.

So, when you look past the hype (as you MUST DO in MMO game releases), I don't see this being a vast mega-game like WoW is.

- Phos

They'll open later than soon unless, of course, the soon comes too fast, in which case they'll open later or on time.

And don't forget about the Myan calendar, closed super-secret European beta testing, recently bought licenses, and the power and enginuity of small motivated developers. These are factors.

I hope this clarifies things.

- Phos

Now that song will be stuck in my head for a week

1 - Tron, the movie as an MMO game
2 - Candyland (i'd have to be drunk)
3 - Monopoly (I'd be a slum lord)
4 - Mousetrap
5 - Life (Wouldn't that be the Sims?)

- Phos
(this is a joke - so don't bother flaming me.)

If I could vote (the 'vote' button never appears in these forums for me), I would say the subscriptions will increase due to WOTLK (this is not an option on your poll).

WoW is still the only product of it's kind on the market. All the followup games seem like they're either full of problems, or working as intended but not very well-thought out game ideas.

- Phos