All Posts by Suvroc

Originally posted by Gutboy

Just remember that Thunderous is a paid shill and a viral-marketer, so take everything he says from that prespective.

Good God man, what is this? McCarthyism or the second Salem witch hunt?

I'm shocked no one yet has copied the entire resource/crafting system of SWG. That IMO has been one of the really outstanding aspects of SWG.

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

 

Originally posted by Suvroc

 

Originally posted by Gutboy

You can't trust anything the viral-marketers like Suvroc, I am now pretty sure he is a paid shill for Bioware. He and others like him claim all this inside knowlege about sub numbers and what games are being developed with which IP.

 

 

lol that's awsome.

Apparently you think I'm good enough to be a paid shill - so if anyone out there wants to hire me I'll consider it.  :)

I've never claimed any inside knowledge Gutboy. I'm just speculating as much as anyone else, so I suppose if I am right then I'll have even more explaining to do?  :)

 

Suvroc can you put a word in for me? The Cabal doesn't pay anything (more like charity work), I'd certainly rather work for BioWare and make the big bucks.

Sure, but to remain incognito on these forums it's mandatory to wear one of these....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groucho_glasses

Originally posted by Gutboy

You can't trust anything the viral-marketers like Suvroc, I am now pretty sure he is a paid shill for Bioware. He and others like him claim all this inside knowlege about sub numbers and what games are being developed with which IP.

 

lol that's awsome.

Apparently you think I'm good enough to be a paid shill - so if anyone out there wants to hire me I'll consider it.  :)

I've never claimed any inside knowledge Gutboy. I'm just speculating as much as anyone else, so I suppose if I am right then I'll have even more explaining to do?  :)

Originally posted by Bob_Blawblaw

Without a doubt there will be a new SW MMO. GL likes his money. Today it was announced that sub based games rake in over a billion dollars annually. You have to remember that the NGE was created out of pure greed. The kind that surpasses all logic. That same greed insures us that there will be another SW MMO dropped on us sooner or later.

As for it's quality, it depends on who is developing it and how much power LEC gives them (and how much power they withhold from their marketing people).

That being said, I'm sure the general SW gamer will forevermore approach any MMO with fear and trepidation.

I completely agree as this was exactly what I was thinking too.

And the reason I think there may already be something in the works (possibly a BW project - or something else thats been in secret development) is that it would be an awful waste of an opportunity to not have something released to coincide with the new SW T.V. show.

Who knows, maybe the whole Agency thing is a red herring and in fact it'll be a SW micro-transaction based game :P

Rollotamasi makes a good point, it can seem that it's more of an anti-SoE thing. But for me specifically I'm just as cautious with Funcom as I am with SoE when it comes to their interests in RMT's. However it is SoE that wants the fame of bringing RMT's to the west, and given my past experiences in regards to questionable ethics with SoE I tend to think more about the possible methods of exploitation then I would have with another company.

Essentially SoE has opened my eyes and gave me reason to pause and think about these things. Just as Smed has claimed he's learned from SWG's past so have I.

Originally posted by boognish75

Originally posted by Shohadaku

What a scam.  Up yours Smed. Screw you SOE.

As for people who would rather just pay then earn what they get, nothing personal, but this is this biggest thing wrong with MMO's. The gold selling bots would have a field day with this system.

I don't want a commercial filled scam fest. Give me a honest imaginative game that I know my cost UPFRONT.

Don't try to bait me with promises of free, then flash shiney items for real cash in front of me.

Especially SOE like someone mentioned. I was mad enough loosing about every one of my items as a PRE NGE Jedi in SWG. Even without microtransactions I lost real cash in rare items I had.

If you took a damn second and read the eula..Online experience may change and any items ingame are sole property of said company, you didnt lose crap buddy, and you agreed to this and to every other damned mmo out there every time you scroll down real fast and click i agree to log in, and as far as ''earned'' i think the word should be gained and every person should have the same oppertunity to gain the same thing to make a level playing field, lol when you say earned you sound like you worked for it or something, are you a gold farmer? If you are not then you have ''items'' in an everchanging mmo that is played for fun and not as a job unless yer a gold farmer.

Wait a sec.

You're giving this guy crap by claiming he didn't "lose" anything,  then you tell him that you think the term "gained" should replace the word "earned"?

How can you not "lose" something when you're are able to "gain" something in the same context?

Originally posted by tman5

 

 

I have no doubt what you describe is part of the design philosophy.  I'll just drop a little note on "personal responsibility" or in the case of 10-year-olds, parental responsibility, and leave it at that.  I was never big on protecting the foolish from themselves.

'Course, Smed or whoever needs to be careful if openly targeting the youth with this in mind.  Nothing would bring down regulation on MMOs faster than a piss-off parental group showing up at their Represenatives' offices waving reams of credit card bills with exhorbitant game charges.

But regardless of who this game is marketted to the ingame environment will be designed for easy and quickly accessable transactions that encourge immediate familiarity there by increasing your comfort with spending.

And thus begins the slippery slope of microtransactions. You start justifing purchases by thinking 'well, it's only 3 dollars', and suddenly find yourself nickle and dimed to virtual death. Especially if you want to compete with others.

To be absolutely honest though I believe it's inevitable for there to be another SW MMO. Whether it will be good or not depends on what those developers have learned from this fiasco.

With any luck they'll learn the most important lesson that a sense of community is everything - at least IMO it is.

I'd be happy with any MMO worth a damn.

Although I would like to try EVE.

Originally posted by Reklaw

 

Now abit more on topic, i don't "yet" see this fuss about microtransaction, i simply dislike it and probebly never will use it. Btw is it already a fact that The Agency is going ot use RMT? or is it still speculation of SOE having said they are considering it?. For me considering isn't fact ....yet....unless i might have missed some press release of forum post by SOE anouncing that The Agency will be RMT?

 

Also seeing which games use legit RMT makes me seriously wonder why some SWG VETS are consurned as from what i see most of these games gear towards a very different audience, many are more family oriented type of games, or games like Maple Story.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was announced that it was an RMT game.

One of my biggest concerns regarding RMT's is the simple fact that it's designed to make more profit then they are now. That doesn't sound like a bad thing at first but you have to consider Beatnik's analogy of a casino. Essentially the consumer will start of innocently enough by purchasing only a few items to "get by". This is the beginning of raising your comfort level of purchasing more and more items (or gambling to use the casino as an example).

I'm sure we've all experienced something like spending more then we thought we would at a casino because of the "rush", or spending more on iTunes than anticipated because of it's ease of use and accessability.

It's all desinged to make you comfortable in spending money, and to direct that kind of marketting to 10 year olds is nothing short of exploitation IMO.

I don't know if I'm accurately getting my concerns across but I hope this is a start.

Originally posted by Beatnik59

Why didn't pre-CU suffer from this whole "can't play long enough to get the necessary loot" syndrome?

Because pre-CU didn't have uber rare loot at its inception.  Items were manufactured in large enough quantities that everyone was able to get an adequate supply of whatever they needed.  While prices were high on some items, they weren't bank breaking high.

Of course, a lot of this changed with the introduction of the holocrons, skilltapes, the "DOT CDEFs and combat knives of doom," as well as things like Krayt pearls and crystals.  Those things that could only be found via rare random drop and not manufactured or harvested tended to destroy the beauty and balance of pre-CU.

But of course, as I said, SOE doesn't want to create games that work.  They want to create 24 hour casinos that work, where people sit around paying money and playing at all hours hoping to win the jackpot that's at 10,000 to 1 odds.  I can't blame them for following this model, as it seems to be a proven formula for success in Atlantic City and Las Vegas.  However, if we wanted "casino style gameplay," we'd go to the casino, or even patron an online casino.

Very good points Beatnik!

I particularily liked your analogy of 24 hour casinos as this is precisely what RMT's feel like to me.

If Blizzard made a SW MMO I bet thats exactly what it would look like.

To cartoony for me. I prefer more realism.

Originally posted by Daffid011

 

You still seem to be laboring under the assumption that you are entitled to the exact same rewards and benefits that some other player received when in fact you are entitled only to the same opportunities.  Why do you think you are entitled to get balancing just because you don't play as much as someone else?  What exactly is this disadvantage you suffer?  Sorry that you can't put more time into a game, but the whole entire concept of playing a game is to achieve.  The moment you pay someone for those achievements you should just stop playing.  

 

 

Do you expect to get the same amount of money as someone who works twice as much as you?  Do you expect a 4 year college degree if you only complete 2 years worth?  There are plenty of things in the world that are happening that are against the law or should not be happening.  The fact that people are doing them anyhow is not just reason to make them legal is it? 

 

The point is you get what you put into PLAYING the game.  Just because you don't have the same exact rewards as someone else at the end of the month doesn't mean you are somehow a disadvantaged poor soul who needs a leg up.  You are not disadvantaged, you are just greedy or lazy and want something for no effort in a game.  There is no other way to explain that.

 

Wife- Hi Honey, how was work today?

Husband- Great!  I earned enough to get 10 levels and that fiery sword of noob slaying.  Beware to those unemployed who keep pwning me.

 

*sigh*

To add to this I'd say that this type of assumption of entitlement becomes a very slippery slope. Once you begin accomodating some "casual gamers" there will always be someone who plays even less demanding the same entitlement. When does it stop, and who sets the limits?

Originally posted by Obraik

Again, you're basing that on what you see posted on the forums.  The majority of the players DON'T post on the forums.

Hell, at this point why don't they just make a focus group from the worst hit servers, or at the very least insert a poll at the login screen? Or perhaps even as a reason for discontinung their subscription on the exit survey.

All of this is redundent anyway because if it was to SoE's benefit to do a server merge you know they do it then - regardless of whether people wanted it or not.

Originally posted by Torak

 

Originally posted by jaxscorpio34

Originally posted by ummax

 

I'm a vet and was playing in july 2003 and as a vet I am telling anyone mooning over something silly like this to GET OVER IT

 

hows that"

anyhow you know this is a great sport when you have the flu I should try this more often it passes the time better then those soap operas PLUS it acts like them too.  When I get the flu again in a year I can come back and say the IDENTICAL same thing over again because nothing will have changed just like those tv shows the world turns or whatever another world? gah ..

 

Why?  It takes no effort at all on my part to come here every so often and contribute to the give 'SOE a black eye campaign.'  I do love reading your posts and seeing how your mind works though.  In your wierd little mind, my coming here for a couple of minutes every so often equates to being unable to deal with real life issues.  Odd that, in the last month, I've not missed a single day of work, dealt with the loss of my grandmother, taken care of my dog (who's arthritis is getting worse by the day), run 5 miles a night, worked out three times per week, travelled to visit family, paid my bills, watched TV, played 4 rounds of golf and spent hours on the driving range, and gone to the movies.  You're absolutely correct though, the folks who come here and complain about how SOE treats it's customers have lost all touch with reality and are completely unable to function in normal society.

 

The problem is SOE got over SWG a long time ago. They have moved on to other projects.

Nothing anyone writes here affects them whatso ever.

 

You guys shouldn't turn this into a personal assault on one another, it doesn't prove anything.

 

 I don't know if I'd agree that SOE has "gotten over" SWG. It seems that whenever Smed speaks with an interviewer he's still discussing "the lessons learned" concerning SWG. Even if it's just some meaningless rheotoric on his part he's still trying to change the image of SoE and SWG.

However I do agree that SoE has moved on from SWG, and it's essentially on autopilot now. SoE/SCE's focus now is on the broadest audience possilbe - which means a cross-platform, easily accessable, and least complex game.

Originally posted by Mehjrian

I find this interesting:

"John Smedley: The lessons we've learned from our community have just been extraordinary. For years now we've been running something called the Influencer Summit, where we pull 100 people, and 50 of those people will be our worst critics."

Wasn't this a big influence on the NGE, and CU back in the day (granted they were probably working on it anyway to begin with)? So of a few hundred thousand people playing, they pulled 100 people to the "Influencer Summit"? This is less than 1% of the population. No wonder why we didn't get anything we wanted pre-CU. Why did they not read forums?

I definitely approve of holding meetings like this, but to me there should have been more than 100 people... although I don't know how realistic that would have been. Just seems like a silly way to critique your game, listening to 100 people out of 200k or so.

Actually I think the NGE was a result of a focus group. Which is more damaging IMO because SoE would have been in a position to chose their demographic. They must have known that this new demographic of consumers was in sharp contrast to their existing players - and fully understood that they were purposely disposing of this unwanted group with the expectation of getting far more subscriptions.

This, coupled with this recent interview, implies to me that SoE are more interested in finding the right demographic to maximise profits rather then building a great game and letting the demographic find them.

Originally posted by Rippentuck

 

I agree, I wish people would please just knock it off with the "pre-cu" stuff -- and this coming from someone who loved it back in the day.  Just wasting space repeatedly calling for something that can't happen.  Move on, for petes sake.

 

Rip

That's funny because I feel exactly the same way about the NGE.  ; )

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

You put a poll to give SOE some feedback on SWG EULA in the MMORPG.com SWG Vet forum? Yeah, I'm sure that will be unbiased and a true depiction of the current players desires.

True, but I don't think any other group of gamers has been so affected (either negatively or positively depending on what side of the fence you're sitting on) by a EULA. Most gamers I would imagine are blissfully unaware of what a EULA says because they haven't had to really pay attention to it.

It's only through SoE using the EULA as a defense that I've become more aware of what a EULA is. I've not experienced that awareness through any other MMO.

Originally posted by Gutboy

Just asking but why would you expect to see people in Theed? The only quests there are for people in the low to mid 20's. When you log on for 5 minutes at a time with pre-set expectations you are going to see exactly what you thought you would see. 

 

To me the lack of people in areas like Theed represent a fundemental change in gaming philosophies between pre-CU and NGE. On one hand we have the pre-CU philosophy of emersion through interdependency and social networking. and on the other hand  the NGE offered a more instant form of action at the expense of a sense of community.

The beauty of the pre-CU philosophy was that it brought all people together in specific areas (and there were a lot of those specific areas) that normally wouldn't have that interaction. At places like Theed you would have your traders, entertainers, doctors, and combat charcters all mingling together - and all without the limitations of levels!

That to me is what an MMO should be - dynamic, social, and diverse.