All Posts by Suvroc

Originally posted by Jodokai

So Bioware comes out and says they're making an MMO. The put up wanted ads for game designers with FANTASY experience, then how long has it been? Two years or so? Later someone aquires access to a Star Wars IP and we're calling this proof to keep the rumor going that Bioware is making a Star Wars MMO? Please tell me someone else sees the idocy of this.

I guess it depends on what you consider fantasy.

I for one never considered Star Wars to be based in any kind of reality - but that's just me   ; )

Originally posted by Gutboy

 

 You  know the game you describe is still the game I play today. Everything in life changes, nothing stays the same for long.

 

How can it be the same game you play today, yet you say nothing stays the same for long?

You need to make up your mind which one it is Gutboy   ; )

Originally posted by Obee

 Everything that made the game bad on November 15, 2005 is still present.  The only difference is that they have added a bunch of stuff on top of it.  Would you consider D&D style familiars as a vet reward an improvement?  Considering the game has the worst combat system of any MMO, does making it take longer to kill MOBs seem like an improvement?  Particle effects are much more present during combat, even with the particle slider, than they were at the start of the NGE, and they don't improve the game, they just make it more obnoxious.

That's just a few things that are worse than when the NGE first went live.  There are many, many more I can list.

lol I agree with you Obee.

I was just trying to be consciencious to those currently playing. Somehow these things make it an improvemnet for some, but definetly not me.

Originally posted by Obee

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by hosal

They have improved a ton since the launch of NGE.  Many vet's like my self are returning and finding that the game has improved and are now playing once again.  It's just a matter of opinon if you like it or not.

 

I don't think you'll find anyone dispute the fact that the game has improved since Nov. '05.

 

I will.

 

lol ok then...  : )

It couldn't have gotten worse could it?

Originally posted by hosal

They have improved a ton since the launch of NGE.  Many vet's like my self are returning and finding that the game has improved and are now playing once again.  It's just a matter of opinon if you like it or not.

I don't think you'll find anyone dispute the fact that the game has improved since Nov. '05.

But I do think the gaming experience is significantly different - perhaps as much so as to consider it a completely different game.The problem then becomes where can I get the game experience again that was removed from the market, and why would I play a game that isn't offering enough of a difference then virtually every other MMO available - and in many cases much more polished?

I guess the answer usually comes down to 'because it's Star Wars', and for a developer to rely simply on the IP will shoot themselves in the foot. The true question people need to ask themselves these days is how strong is their connection to the IP? Or, how strong is the game without the IP?

Answering that should give people a very clear indication of the quality of this gaming experience.

Originally posted by Beatnik59

Originally posted by Suvroc

Yeah, I think you're right Beatnik.

Funny thing is is that I never cared for Kash or Musty, so it would be no great lose for me. Even JTL never got me excited.

 

I tend to agree with you, Suvroc.  In fact, I think most launch-era players who want the old game back would agree.

New players though (and players who may not be aware of the difficulties involved with coding) will not be going to a pre-CU server without Kashyyk, Mustafar, or all the content additions that the line game possesses.  Which means that from SOE's angle, a pre-CU server would basically be host to a significant, but declining pool of clients that simply cannot grow past the 200,000 or so who own the original rulebook who would engage in it as a curiosity from time to time.

Part of the reason we stayed through pre-CU was the promise that things would get better, and we'd get new content to enjoy with the old system.  Would we, or more importantly, could we game in pre-CU knowing that none of the problems we encountered would ever be solved, and no more content would ever be forthcoming?

Could the PvPers game with the "CDEF mind DOT pistol of doom" wielded by one side every time, knowing full well that the advantage will never get resolved?

Could the entertainers game with all the buffbots, knowing full well that there will be no CSR or change that will mitigate the buffbots?

Could the markets be competitive with one armorsmith churning out comp armor with grandfathered resources and a +20 experimentation suit that makes every other armor product obsolete?  Knowing full well that there will be no fix to armor or crafting?

What will the PvEers do once they've cleared out the Geonosian caves, the Warren, and the Death Watch Bunker for the 100th time, knowing full well that there will be nothing else coming EVER, because everything new is going to the new game?

See, pre-CU was better than this NGE, but pre-CU also needed fixes and content: two things that SOE is unwilling to do then or now.  And while I believe that all of the development time they are spending on this POS NGE could be better used to refine and re-release pre-CU; SOE has already put so much money and effort into the NGE system that they do not believe they can go back.

 

Well, starting from scratch - a completely new server - I can honestly say it would give me a minimum of 21 months of entertainement.

But your point is valid. It would certainly require effort on the part of the developers to sustain growth in terms of content. But that point would reflect any MMO IMO. Besides, the one thing that I always felt was needed in SWG, and unfortunetly SoE gave it to the wrong era IMO, is strong tools to develop content on your own.

Many years ago I argued for that simply because it would relieve the developers time, enabling them to work on issues.

Yeah, I think you're right Beatnik.

Funny thing is is that I never cared for Kash or Musty, so it would be no great lose for me. Even JTL never got me excited.

Originally posted by charris1980

Originally posted by Suvroc

Originally posted by charris1980

yeah but they caved after iphone said FU and pulled selling it in canada.  that was probably the deciding factor more then a petition.

 

But wouldn't that still be Apple responding to and putting presure on Rogers because of angry consumers?

 

but i'm saying rogers caved after apple left, not from angry customers.  apple leaving made them think they better get them back.  that speaks wonders about rogers, means customers don't matter.

I don't have any information about the Apple connection, but from what I heard Apple questioned the tactics of Rogers.

That tells me that Apple heard of customer dis-satisfaction, and presured Rogers into changing their rate plans to ensure the Iphone sells. After all Rogers is the sole contrator in Canada for the Iphone currently. If people don't buy it from Rogers then the Iphone doesn't sell.

Originally posted by Locklain

Originally posted by AveBethos

Originally posted by Mackerni

We've learned a thing or two with our experiences with the NGE and don't plan on repeating mistakes from the past and not listening to the players.

—John Smedley, president of Sony Online Entertainment

What I don't get is that if John Smedley knows this, and we know that they still have pre-CU and CU code, WHY DON'T THEY MAKE SOME OF THE SERVERS pre-CU and CU? The ONLY reason why I could think of not doing this, is because it might be difficult to release the same content on all three versions. But still ... !

 

The only logical conclusion at this point or in the past is that SOE knows that Bioware or somebody else has the Star Wars MMO in the future so why bother...?  Other than that it makes zero sense.  They couldn't do it now because their developmen team would go into cardiac arrest trying to figure out the Pre-CU code.  I can't imangine those guys trying to balance Pre-CU...  Scary thought.

I believe you are entirely correct with your statement.  SOE CAN"T release a pre-cu build of the game because LA will not allow them to do so.  I don't know why more people don't see this.  LA is awful with all of the Star Wars games why should SWG be any different?

How would you know if SoE even inquired whether they could or not?

Quite honestly I don't think they even did inquire because the NGE version of SWG fits comfortably into the same similar style of gameplay as everything else on their Station Pass. This makes it convienient to shift devs from one project to another as we saw at one time when I believe there were some EQ2 devs helping out on SWG.

I believe that SoE is making the "business model" of the Station Pass fit SWG rather then making a game people want. Essentially, they're going for quantity over quality to broaden their playerbase. And that road leads to stagnation.

Originally posted by Gutboy

So having a target lock and the ability to stack attacks in the combat que (thats pre-cu combat) is the be all end all of MMO combat? Really?

As a matter of fact I thought it was great. You may have stacked specials in your que, but I for one was constantly clearing my que to adapt to the situation (i.e. heals, etc..)

But regardless did you play pre-CU without buffs? The way it was originally intended? Because there was no way you could fill you're combat que and be effective in combat. You're HAM prevented using specials over and over, and if I remember correctly even using stim packs used mind.

Pre-CU combat (without buffs) was simply the most engaging form of combat I ever experienced in an MMO.

Originally posted by charris1980

yeah but they caved after iphone said FU and pulled selling it in canada.  that was probably the deciding factor more then a petition.

But wouldn't that still be Apple responding to and putting presure on Rogers because of angry consumers?

I couldn't help but draw comparisons to the veteran community of SWG when reading this article.

These people did their part as consumers and spoke out. I think this is a great thing, and shows that people can have an effect on a corporation's decisions.

Originally posted by AveBethos

Originally posted by Gutboy

The main problem with a story driven game is no dev team in history can keep up with the rate players burn through content.

 

I have a feeling they know this and have planned accordingly.  If this is a game that follows a weekly television show (Star Wars) or something of the like, or the environment changes with a new storyline in an ongoing conflict, it can work and theoretically we could never burn through all there is to do. 

I dunno, it's going to be challenging for them to keep everyone busy.

If a couple of guys on a forum have seen this I'm thinking it's very likely Bioware already has too.

They seem to be quite competent, so I have some faith in them.

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/09/tech-iphone.html

"That anger expressed itself in a number of anti-Rogers websites, including ruinediphone.com — which has seen more than 56,000 people petition against the company — and cancelrogers.com.

John Boynton, senior vice-president and chief marketing officer for Rogers, said the company changed its mind after seeing many well-reasoned arguments for why data pricing should be lower."

Originally posted by crunknasty

I understand the principle fine, and with a restaurant, cell phone, or even a car, your point stands in that it's understandable to dislike the company that produced a poor product.  The flipside is that with any of those examples, few people go to website forums and spew spiteful rhetoric about said company in droves.

I dunno Crunknasty.....

Seems they do, and get results....

http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2008/07/09/tech-iphone.html

As usual Beatnik is quite articulate at getting his points across. I totally agree with him, and would like to add a few things myself.

SoE had shown such disregard to it's subscribers (at least within SWG) in that they obviously mislead those people of what their intentions were with SWG. They took us for granted and knowingly tried to change their entire demographic on a live game. IMO I think this is ethically wrong.

Secondly, as all of us know developing an MMO is very expensive. We need large corporations like SoE to be able to finance innovation in this industry. What SoE did to SWG was exactly the opposite. They turned their backs on something very innovative, possibly setting the bar significantly lower for what an MMO could be - or at least a much lower standard from SoE games.

And lastly, I for one am strongly against RMT's in an MMO. I will personally stay away from any RMT based game, and unfortunetly this looks to be the future of SoE related games. I cannot believe I'll see the type of innovation I'm looking for coming from any game SoE will be apart of.

Oh, and something else I almost forgot. SoE values the potential subscriber with more regard then it's current subscriber, or at least it would seem that way. As an SWG vet I get so many free veteran trials that amount to nearly 1/4 of the year. That is 23% of a year given to me for free. So far this year I've had about the same amount of free time given to me for EQ2 vet trials. When will the active players be given some kind of reward for being a paying subscriber?

Originally posted by Obraik

 

You could only re-colour Composite armour.  From memory, I believe this was due to a bug with factory crates of composite where they would come out of the crate at the default colour rather then the colour they were made as a schem.  So to make up for the bug, they made them able to be re-coloured.  Not sure, but I also think it was a one time thing - once that peice was coloured I don't think you could then re-colour it again, it's been a while though so I'm not too sure on that part.

Yeah, I think you're correct on this. But this was also a great opportunity for them to introduce paint kits for armor. I simply never understood why they didn't do that as it seemed like an appropriate time to add it to the game. They did with vehicle paint kits, why not armor?

Originally posted by ArcAngel3

  I say, "well done all"  :)

I agree!

I think we'll see some interesting changes to this industry in the next few years. Maybe in part to what happened to SWG, and the unwillingness of some consumers to go away quietly.

It's kind of funny that with all the hatred and anger current subscribers show towards "disgruntled vets" they forget that it has been us that has held SoE accountable. It is us who SoE needs, and I believe that is why we saw things return to SWG like Beast Master/Creature Handler, Bio-engineering, camps, etc.

Undoubtedly we've made an impact, so I for one applaud people who stand up and demand more out of their products.

Way to go!  : )

Originally posted by japhez

Originally posted by trueswgvet

Originally posted by Obraik

Originally posted by trueswgvet

If the game was a Star Wars game first and a mmorpg second the devs wouldn't have devoted a chapter to the Meatlump King.

And what exactly is non-Star Wars about it?  New stuff is always being added to the Star Wars world through books and other such things, I don't see why new stuff can't be added through the games as well.

If George Lucas had come up with the Meatlump King and it was in one of the movies that would be one thing but when lazy game developers take a forum meme and turn it into content for a Star Wars game it's just lame. I honestly can't believe that you would defend it.

 

The players voted for it, if you don't like it, blame them :P

Please don't tell me they voted on the official forums?

Because we all know only the "vocal minority" goes there.

The only problem, Unmax, is that the core philosophy of the game is different.

The things you list that are still in the game worked best with the original basis of interdependancy and community bulding. These are things that take time and patience IMO, and that goes totally against the "instant action" philosophy of the current game.

So rather then being the basis of the game, they're trying to overlap it with the Star Warsy/fast-paced action style of gaming. IMO that is like trying to mix oil with water.

This may be ok for some but I think the lack of population really makes this issue apparent. SoE needs to focus on one philosophy - and get it done right!