Originally posted by Raztor

 This is taken from another poster on these forums:

 

"To gear up you with best one, it will take about 5-6months while playing 10hours for every day.
If you decided to get best gear there is huge unbelievable gear grinding"

 

It's basically the old honour rank system that WoW used and that's the biggest turn off about this game for me. Gear at high levels plays an important part and you will get destroyed by anyone using it, so to remain competitive you will also have to grind for countless hours. I dread what it will be like for new players after a few months, when they come up against the high ranked players.

This is what concerns me. Everyone knows that MMO's are played heavily by a good portion of it's subscribers. Given that, it won't be long before everyone knows the right tactics to employ to be the most successful. Likewise, I am sure if Aion is about combo attacks, there will be the "best" ones and everything else is slightly sub-par stat-wise and therefore considered 'trash' by the hardcore types. Look at Eve gear loadouts for an example. Given that, the tactics/combo skill is prerequisite to not getting owned every time. What does that leave? 6 month grindy gear.

The flip side is that the beta testers (of which I am not, I did my share of closed beta stuff, even) seem to leave the impression that some characters have to move around a lot to be effective and others don't. The issue with this comes when they receive the torrent of whining from some portion of the player base. This always happens with any game and I don't consider that much of a debate-able point (look on any of the forums here). How do they tweak the damage ratings for the highly keyboard-happy class? So that it's roughly equivalent 1 vs 1 for the 80th percentile? What about the top 20 percent? They end up owning pretty badly, etc.

The basic rule number one is: people are stupid. They don't work in teams well (there goes the group tactics). WAR has shown us that they still do act as a mob and follow each other around if they're making some progress. Many times that works as a decent alternative (until they actually meet an organized, tactical group). You end up with one side usually owning the other, etc. The losing side dissolves and goes elsewhere.

Anyways, I haven't played Aion for myself yet, but I am interested and curious. I am not trying to bash it; just trying to evoke thoughtful conversation, etc.

Originally posted by Nomad40

WOW. Just as an aside I checked one of the sites that sells ISK. 40,000 million for 2800. So if he managed to sell the ISK before they banned him and got it tranferred he made some giant real life money.

 

Just wow....

Characters sell for a lot as well. Eve has some real nutters playing. I really enjoy lifelike games and all, but players who confuse it with real life are just a sad commentary on humanity these days.

I think it's hilarious that some people get their panties in a twist over this. I mean, it's in game, right? Caveat Emptor? Many of the whiners will log back into Eve and resume killing, scamming and stealing directly from other players (costing them way more than a sliver of their account balance). How is this different? Maybe some of the whiners now understand how carebears feel. LOL

I think it's freaking hilarious that, when talking about a game with one of the harshest PvP systems out, the players can't stand anyone being harsh about the game. You have to issue carebear criticism or the little horde of Eve players will descend upon you and your comments.

Just be aware that much of 0.0 space is NBSI (Not Blue, Shoot It), not NRDS. In other words, expect everyone to be hostile.

With Newtonian Physics you will most definitely want a joystick and throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4AjNRdmMJ0

Originally posted by Minsc

Originally posted by WizardBlack

Originally posted by batolemaeus

Nope. Sorry.

4/5 in your skills won't help you if someone counters your setup. That's how my industry-alt killed a mega, and later an armageddon in his punisher..

 

Yeah, of course tactics also play into it. I'd say Eve is a solid 50/50 between skills and gear versus tactics. Yeah, some people will try to start a fight about that too, I suppose. The bottom line is it's my damn opinion (and some others would agree once they figure it out) and not necessarily some others. But to say people are dumb or incompetent just because they don't agree is juvenile.

Some of those victorious moments are truly great. The bottom line is that the training system in the game works for a particular market segment; which is great for that segment. It just doesn't fit other people's needs. Likewise, the whole purpose of the system is for it's obvious capitalistic benefits (for the publisher); not to pick up a particular segment.

 

I'll take a 50/50 skills & gear/tactics ratio over the 90/10 gear/skills ratio for most other MMO's. I'd also argue that gear is even less important in EVE. I'd say it's more like a 10/40/50 gear/skills/tactics ratio in EVE because no matter how many billions of isk you spend on the most tricked out ship in the game, if you don't know how to fly it it will go pop very quickly.

Yes, of course.

Originally posted by batolemaeus

Nope. Sorry.

4/5 in your skills won't help you if someone counters your setup. That's how my industry-alt killed a mega, and later an armageddon in his punisher..

Yeah, of course tactics also play into it. I'd say Eve is a solid 50/50 between skills and gear versus tactics. Yeah, some people will try to start a fight about that too, I suppose. The bottom line is it's my damn opinion (and some others would agree once they figure it out) and not necessarily some others. But to say people are dumb or incompetent just because they don't agree is juvenile.

Some of those victorious moments are truly great. The bottom line is that the training system in the game works for a particular market segment; which is great for that segment. It just doesn't fit other people's needs. Likewise, the whole purpose of the system is for it's obvious capitalistic benefits (for the publisher); not to pick up a particular segment.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by WizardBlack

 

Yeah, I know all the arguments. I've heard them all. I am simply warning new guys that don't necessarily want to wait to build 10M SP to be "pretty close" to vets or 5M SP to "be lucky sometimes with good tactics".

 

That guy won't be able(want to wait for) to raid/grind for gear in WoW either, hence my reference to WoW.

Valid point. :-) I would tell that market segment the same thing about WoW for the selfsame reason.

Originally posted by Xennith

Originally posted by WizardBlack

LOL, I love the one-off examples and the oversimplification of my statements. Go ahead guys. Those that qualify themselves as mostly PvP-oriented (and not overly patient) have gotten the picture, I think.

 

those that are good enough will play eve, people like you... not so much.

Yeah, because trying to insult someone just because their opinion is different really shows how "good" you are.

I ran two clients on my laptop (single core, 2 Gb RAM, 6 series nvidia card) on the premium graphics with no problems. I usally quit down to one when in combat. No problems. Eve is (or at least was) a very stable and compact program for what you get.

LOL, I love the one-off examples and the oversimplification of my statements. Go ahead guys. Those that qualify themselves as mostly PvP-oriented (and not overly patient) have gotten the picture, I think.

Originally posted by Orphes

Originally posted by WizardBlack

 

Yeah, the math is one thing; effective DPS is quite another. I don't play WoW. You don't know anything about me. And, BTW, I specifically said for those that are playing PvP; not industry/trade. I've done all that and made a mint at it, too. Starting with very little SP in it. Anyone can make good money in trade with the ability to fly an indy ship (ie., a day's worth of training, or so). But if you wanna go PvP (in other words; lowsec or zero space) you will indeed get podded really quick. Don't fool yourself.

Oh, you won't be podded one, not twice, you will get podded alot... Don't fool yourself into believeing that you will muster this game from day one. You won't be the king of the hill from day one. Why should one be.

Mention one game where you will be king of the hill from day one.

OMG I have played this game for 10 days and I still don't own everyone...

OMG I have played this game for 36 days and I still getting podded...

What game will that not be true in? Mention one game.

A newb is a newb is a newb. Doesn't matter if he bougth a 60M SP character or have 800k one.

I love Eve; just don't have time to play right now. Don't presume to know me, my game experience or my skills in eve. I am simply warning the PvP-type that jumps into Eve expecting to get into action. You know the type I am talking about.

An experience player with 4/5 or 5/5 in their ship of choice (T2) with T2 weaponry and ammo and 4/5 or 5/5 in peripheral skills will never get hit by a newbie if they are good.

A veteran player should be able to put up a good fight against the person who knows EVE and have played EVE the longest time of them all.

That day the newbie goes away from being a noob is not when his skillpoints goes over a certain treshold. It is the day when he knows (amongst other things) to pick his battles, the day he know that simply put what the .... to do.

That day the player quite shurely will put up a good fight to your veteran player.

If they do, they are probably running a proper tank config (speed, active, passive) and will hardly get a scratch before they pop the newb.

What is a newb?

 To make a comparison with the all famous WoW. But I think it could be alot of the other games out there aswell.

When I played, over 1½ year ago, or rather when I started to play 3 years ago. There was no chance for me to join those über raiding guild. To be able to do that I would not only need to be lvl60, I would have to have decent gear. Decent gear that after awhile was not only full Tier1 set but also (close to complete) Tier2 set.

That was not 10 days of leveling. Yeah, shure, I could go and buy Tier pieces from these guilds raiding to help them fund their raiding. But how would I come up with the 150G/piece? Endless grinding, or something. I mean it did not take me 11 days to make that, I would dare to say it would have taken me months of playing until I would be able to have this.

At this point I would be on par with the rest of the veterans... I would know the game as good as they did?
I'm not so shure about that. But ok at some point I would have catched up, as one say. But to be at highest level would not cut it.

So let's get back to EVE. No I will never ever catch up to a player that have played the game for even one month longer then me unless he quits the game, if one stares blindly to the pool of SP. But the difference beetween a 1 month player and a 2 months player is nothing. Also the difference beetween a 5-10M SP character and a 60M one is not necesserly that huge either.

In my opinion you start to catch up the day you have reached around 2M SP... And you can be a valuable asset already after a few weeks worth of training. But not from day1 one I think it is wrong to even suggest or want that.

Most importently learn the game.

Yeah, I know all the arguments. I've heard them all. I am simply warning new guys that don't necessarily want to wait to build 10M SP to be "pretty close" to vets or 5M SP to "be lucky sometimes with good tactics". Trust me, I don't have a thin skin. I was podded for my fair share and never got pissed, etc. Even when some of them were ridiculously one sided. I love Eve, as I said. (in fact if you don't leave my statements be, I'm gonna think about resubbing the damn thing).

You go figure how long it takes a raw 1M SP character to hit 10M SP if you all are so desperate to convince PvP newbs to come into the game. I am just trying to TEMPER new players who might not be expecting to have to wait a few months (at minimum) to be "close" or to avoid being the dispose-a-newb tackler. Most decent corps wouldn't bring you in until you have 5M SP or so; last I checked. Therefore, using your eve trainer calc tools. Take a raw recruit and figure how long to, say,  6M SP figuring 5/5 on T1 and 4/5 on T2 learning skills. I'd even let you leave charisma alone.

Originally posted by craynlon

This is what happens with AoC every time. It's good at first but horrible once you reach the non-existant endgame. Statistics show only 10-15% of gamers who try AoC actually play more than a couple of months.

 

i think for quality of gaming to improve the "we are hardcore" community should step a few steps back and analyse if they want to play a game or live in a game.

as i said many times in the past, the fun per hour i had in aoc was the best ive ever witnessed in an mmo.
if i quit paying funcom the monthly fee after 2 month of fun its funcoms loss and my benefit.

would i rather have a game that charges me 15$ a month for some stupid repitive raids or playing the 1 pvp szenario over and over again ? i guess not.

im exited to go back to aoc in a few month, play my 15$ worth of content and try some other games when ive seen it all again.

I think you hit the nail on the head about many players. They want a complete reality to "live in" whether they admit it or realize it or not. It's good to be able to pull back and reconsider your expectations for a game.

Originally posted by CobraSolidus

Originally posted by Teran1987

How do they really expect a whole lot more people to just buy a game they can't even try? o.O There's no trials for this, and the only way in on a free no strings account is via buddy key, and that you have to get from subscribers, and evidently there aren't enough loaner subbers for the amount of people who want buddy keys.

Is this another bright idea bought to you by the idiots at Failcom?

 

Do you realize how many >9/10 critics and reviews of this game you can find out there. Start with gamezone "editors choice" 9.4/10. Hmmm... how can we really expect people to buy AoC?

lol

MMO's are long term products for the consumer. I seriously doubt a reviewer can experience it all (ie., confirm a quality game) by playing it for a few weeks, etc. AoC definitely lures you in, but as some ppl have previously stated, there are some things lacking that aren't observable at first.

Originally posted by Xennith

Originally posted by WizardBlack

It is all well and good for veterans and those that just "enjoy the scenery" (ie., traders, crafters and ppl that just go "wow" to all the excitement) to say "don't listen to the naysayers", but the bottom line is that if you are new and want to be in player combat you can expect to get assraped for quite a while if you attempt PvP. Quite a while, as in, 6 months or more. If spending lots of time to earn ISK only to lose it in ten seconds appeals to you, go for it. Otherwise, stay out of it.

The OP is obviously a corporate type. Making money, running a corp, "crafting", etc. His SP investment in combat tells you so. Even at that, he has the resources to rip a new player apart if he so chose. And, as they say, many people "so choose".

Skill points and money will easily increase your damage by an order of magnitude. Not to mention "debuff" tactics.

New player be warned.

what an unmitigated pile of bullshit from a failure. as ive pointed out, im starting a new character, is it going to be assraped? no. know why? because im a good player, certainly better than you anyhow.

what the hell are you on about skills will increase your damage an order of magnitude and "debuff" people? you think that a newb and a vet flying the same ship have a 1000% dps difference? try 30%. get out of your WoW mindset, actually on second thoughts, dont. stay in wow because EVE is serious business.

look at it this way, my new characters are doing well, my lowskill trader/industrialist is raking in the cash, is it because of skill points or my skill? is this skillpoints arguement a cop out excuse for people who are simply bad at EVE? the majority of eve players (regardless of when they joined) say yes.

Yeah, the math is one thing; effective DPS is quite another. I don't play WoW. You don't know anything about me. And, BTW, I specifically said for those that are playing PvP; not industry/trade. I've done all that and made a mint at it, too. Starting with very little SP in it. Anyone can make good money in trade with the ability to fly an indy ship (ie., a day's worth of training, or so). But if you wanna go PvP (in other words; lowsec or zero space) you will indeed get podded really quick. Don't fool yourself.

I love Eve; just don't have time to play right now. Don't presume to know me, my game experience or my skills in eve. I am simply warning the PvP-type that jumps into Eve expecting to get into action. You know the type I am talking about.

An experience player with 4/5 or 5/5 in their ship of choice (T2) with T2 weaponry and ammo and 4/5 or 5/5 in peripheral skills will never get hit by a newbie if they are good. If they do, they are probably running a proper tank config (speed, active, passive) and will hardly get a scratch before they pop the newb.

I don't think I owned no one. Put your thinking cap on there, buddy.

Originally posted by Slampig

"I deleted 8 weeks of work..."

 

I think your problem starts right there. I don't know why or when it started but these are games, not work. Too many people look at these as a job and not a fun pastime and it sucks.

Bingo. That type of player will never be satisfied. To the OP: Give up your MMO addiction and go strive to attain more things in real life (ie., not material things). You will be happier.

As in, Player versus Publisher. You want a good game to play. They want your money. Who do you think won? Don't go on defensive; just think inside your own mind and be honest. Feel that effort to post and trump the game up or put a positive spin on it? Owned. Go ahead and post to argue and prove me right.

Originally posted by bstripp

Originally posted by Xennith

 

Im doing it now, why cant you?

 If they had a cap at one year or two years, then I'd be all over it.  At least there'd be some point that I could be on even footing with the people I'm playing with. 

Bingo. Otherwise, it's like joining a marathon halfway through.