I was doing the casual dailies in wow,daily heroic ,got saved in toc 25 and since there was nothing else to do i downloaded ddo eberron unlimetided since its free nowdays. I logged in made a human Barbarian and a Elf ranger as i always do in d&d games ( ;P ).

I made it to lvl 3 with both and here is what i noticed from the new ddo compared  (i played it on launch 1 full month then quited)

1.Animations were nice anwy but now they are even better ,apparently they got polished even more.

2.Starting area is diferrent ..there is a huge island to explore now before u go to stormreach .

3.The dungeons still kick ash making the best and most addictive pve expirience including wow whch i play 5 years now. Few nights ago  i logged in in 00:30 midnight and thoguht to play 1 hour but i found 2 guys and played 5-6 dungeons +adventuring around the Korthos island and when i looked at the clock it was 05:30 in the morning and didnt realised that. The addiction and loss of time is somethign i havent expirinced for a long long long time.

4.I heard they improved it i didntnoticed much but anwy combatsystem in ddo with all those options and tactical choises u have with the huge depth of dungeons and dragons character anc combat system is the best  combat  in the mmorpg market including aoc and wow.

My main complain in ddo combat from my aspect was that the combat speed doesnt give you time to watch the rolls when a 1st lvl character can attack 2 times per second. That in my opinio needs fixing.There is a reason why for example Baldur's gate battles ,Nwn battles were so fascinating.When every attack occurs every 3 secs you have the time to watch the attack rolls save rolls,makes the combat more tactical and far more addictive. Some players that are used to spam attacks maybe will disaggree but since there are options here for tactical combat by making the combat so fast paced you taking away the tactical part.

Anwy despice that i cant deny im addicted now and playing both wow and ddo,ijust wished they could slow down the attacks per sec and maybe add the attack of opportunity element in the near future so this ridiculous run arund mindlesely and spam atatcks wouldcoem to an end.

Well after the ridiculous mix of rat-goat like Draynei i was hoping for a serious looking race. Dont know whats a Draconid but its name makes me sceptical...

If we are talking about farming things to improve our character in whatever that mean (example wow)

1.you have to farm dailies quests every day to raise reputation with factions so you can buy better items or recipes .

2.Farming honour in battlegrounds to get better pvp items.

3.Farming daily dungeons and other dungeons to aquire better pve items necessary so you can start participate on raids.

4. Farming raids every week so u can get better pve higher lvl items.

If with grinding the OP is askign if there anyway developers to find a way to escape grinding/farming part?Well ofc there is.But it has to be a game made from the start to build on other values. Like reward vs risk, reward those who are skilled and not the farmers. It should be a game that focus on gameplay .

As for the farming during the lvling course isnt a problem cause if a game is nice one way or another you ll get yourself to the endgame part. The problem in my opinion in most games is AT the Endgame part and the farming thats starting there. Which above 1-4 points i mentioned conserning wow which i referred to as an example from my personal expirience the last 5 years im playing it.

If hypotheticallly wow wouldnt apear 2 things would happen.

1.A pite of wow pvpiers would join games like uo /sb/aoc. The big pve pite of wow players would rather scater to eq2 /Lotro/ddo.

2.Wow affected due to its sales numbers and success loads of p2p and f2p mmorpgs that came afterwards. So if  Uo was the N1 mmorpg out there we would have by now more uo like mmorpgs. Surely the state of mmorpg scene would be diferrent. You would have more niche rpgs than themeparks out there.If you accept the fact that Uo was a game that focused on freedom and loads of choises build houses,unlimited almost progress on your character,exploration,free pvp,achive titles that actually meant something serious in the game,break in other houses steal their staff from their houses if you raised lockpick for example in high lvl,true interactivity  and loads of other things Uo had and ont eh other hand see the restricted options wow has well i think gameplay would evolve alot more in mmorpg scenery since there would be made much more niche mmorpg's than there are now.

But all these are hypothetically ofc.

I agree to a point that global channels are somehow killing the roleplay atmosphere of a medieval fantasy rp world. I agree with Drachasor that the heal tank aggro system kills immersion too. For that though u need specific combat system design where all classes will have survivability skills and talents,feats etc so they can pick in order to survive tanking a boss or mobs for 3-4 secs. There could be every 3-4 secs a random aggro roller so bosses change target evey few secs. that could keep players on toes and actually watch the boss moves instead of just spamming frostbolts etc. 

Immersion has also to do with a relative freedom of character development. Imersion has to do with freedom, adventuring,exploration lore close to the so called old schools rpg's. Immersion is gameplay but sadly we are living in an era where good grafix are in prior and impressing effects.

I tried to buy DF on launch but at these days there was an issue with the availability in AV's site and couldnt buy it. After time passed i kept playing wow.After a period a fellow mate that also playing wow hardcore called me in phone and he told me that in the net hes working they installed DF and from what he saw he said me :its good. Now when u hear something like that coming from the mouth of a wow fan it means something. That at least the game is decent and bareable.

Now concerning the population numbers:

1.what you can speculate is that if 40 -50 k ppl bought it at 1st 1-2 months im sure 5-10 k ppl that may didnt liked it may left. That leaves you with a solid base of 30,35-45 k ppl playing some of them in hardcore many hours per day 7 days a week and some other less often. Secondly i noticed at DF officia site 49 euros to buy the game +1month of free play which is the usual deal for a mmorpg game u buy. If there was a drop in subs in DF u would see already by now the game's price fallling which ofc didnt happened, price is the same. Aoc due to severe subs fallling numbers has its buying price instead of 49 euros at launch its now around 20 euros or soemthing.

2.Another thing is that due to the mmorpg current state on the market 2 pies are there.

A)The dedicated players in themepark ,wow,lotro ,ddo etc which has lot of players kinda bored,tired and willing to try a bit of something new, more challenging,risking,with more immersion like games..

B)Aoc and some free 2 playmore pvp in theme games, which maybe in the mood to give Df a chance if they see DF ofc steadily improving,less bugs in ,continual patching,expansions etc etc and supporting it from AV's side which from what u guys said in here..

So the conclusion is that i think DF will in fact has lot of chances to increase in subs now on. Thats ofc a speculation /evaluation and personal predict from my side after reading your answers ,reading a bit the forums,other sites ,and ofc with talking with real liffe friends that are playing wow,lotro,aoc right now.

Personally ,right now im doing toc raids every week in wow, trying to raise my arena teams in wow,but cant deny im bit tired fromwow's same story ,farming dailies,and soem toher boring stuff .Im trying to gather some money and at last buy Df to see what the hell is really going on with this game :P. If i see though that Df has adventuring and combat is nice ,and it fills up a fantasy medieval world to explore and adventure with things to achieve, and pvp with it, thats it guys its bye bye wow for me. At least until Cataclysm expansion comes in wow where i ll re- evaluate things again .

Quite sceptical about Sb rip. I personally didnt made it to endgame lvl cap etc but till midgame lvls which i made it i found the game quite ethistic huge variety in races and with most of the races quite intresting adding depth to character creation. Ppl tht played it clamied it was great in pvp maybe one of the most fun pvp rpg games in mmo terms. Only thing that troubled me tbh was the quite bad grafix but in the end gameplay,addiction matters more.

So with the pvp players base being quite huge why no company big or small arent trying a Sb revamp with (ok) updated grafix , bit more polished ? Im sur eit could hit easilly 300 k -400 k thousand subs which ensures in financial terms the survival of such a game. Also if a game is good in gameplay it always lures some less pvp fanatics also. So why none tries to produce soemthign like SB that somehow it manages to bring back the old school rpg magic in our computers?

Dont mistake me.. I consider myself big fan of pvp its just i love rp also.

Ok so guys would you recomend Darkfall for buying in its current state? Just so you know im big fan of manual combat oblivion style combat etc (non auto-attack  like wow's system).

A second question. There are good  opportunities for adventuring in the wilds? Is adventuring in DF fun? Any roleplay around?

I admit i lost Df tracks and info updates so i had few questions about DF's current state and how it evolved (if it evolved).

1.Combat :  got  polished and improved? I m talking about animations ,combat mechanisms, if lattency issues affect combat in big degree? Is the lattency friendly to most ppl? Did they put some more moves to perform during a battle?

2.Skills progressions : Are players still increasing combat skills and spell schools still by attacking walls or the air?

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by tazarconan

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by tyrson

 

If oblivion was online, the way it is,it would had been a spamfest where you spam without thinking about what you are doing. Also, the stun after you parry an attack would be really really annoying for the other player. So thats why how oblivion is, it could never work for a pvp game so before it goes online, there would need to be a huge change on combat.

 

Spamfest??? Oblivion simpliest attacks cost u energy and when u get low on energy your attacks are doing very low damage and spamfest attacks can lead your character to become recoiled (stunned as u say below) .Lol have u ever understood oblivion combat???? Also the recoil effect is one of the best ways to punish spamfest attackers ..You must be kidding . It would be  great if  DF had ,or MO will have a recoilled effect after blocking succesfully mindless attacks from opponents. Keep in mind that the recoil effect has to do also with the defender 's blocking skill and agility, strength stats of the 2 characters .

If Oblivion now would went on mmorpg launch well ofc it would need a small combat revamp but very small cause simply as it is it rocks. Only thing they would need to change is some skills values for making balance issues less annoying inisde the game,for pve and pvp purposes.

Besides the good with Oblivion character advancment and class development style is that there is NOT standard classes but instead People are building their own avatar as they imagine him picking any skill they like and advancing mostly with those they want to. And in this type of game there is NOT balance issues cause simply if a character build fails it means the player mad some bad choises during the levelling tour.

You are aright. As a i think about it, Oblivion would had been a perfect MMOrpg with almost the same rules as DF or MO. The combat would be perfect because not like DF, spamming magic would be less viable because you lose more mana you really have to aim with spells. I mean, they are not all big ass aoe. Bow would need a revamp because with a bow, you can move at the same speed then when you equip a melee weapon because you can walk backward while you get chase by a melee and shoot arrows. The bow change would be that when you hold the string, you get slowed down teal you release it.

For the melee combat, melee attacks would need some more momentum focus during the develepment and the block stun should be a skill that not all type of players are good at it. I mean, like you said, agi dex and maybe luck too should help you parry at the right time to stun effectively. That way, thief players will use parry more often.

Agreed. I was playing a melee/ranged wood elf and i cant deny that running backwards and shoot arrows was bit ridiculous. Your  right. As for the luck part i agree also iy would be nice to add on chance for effects. Sadly in most mmorpgs nowdays they dont have many stats. They use only the basics :/ . Str agility stamina wisdom intelligence. Like they want to simplify characters. But that was the magic in many older roleplaying games. Things liek depth addiction are missing. I remember in wizardry 8 every stat even as warrior had somethign to contribute. Charisma was adding to critical also, wisdom to chance to hit etc. apart ofc their main and obvious roles,usually beteter suitedd casters .

Originally posted by Realbigdeal

Originally posted by tyrson

 

If oblivion was online, the way it is,it would had been a spamfest where you spam without thinking about what you are doing. Also, the stun after you parry an attack would be really really annoying for the other player. So thats why how oblivion is, it could never work for a pvp game so before it goes online, there would need to be a huge change on combat.

Spamfest??? Oblivion simpliest attacks cost u energy and when u get low on energy your attacks are doing very low damage and spamfest attacks can lead your character to become recoiled (stunned as u say below) .Lol have u ever understood oblivion combat???? Also the recoil effect is one of the best ways to punish spamfest attackers ..You must be kidding . It would be  great if  DF had ,or MO will have a recoilled effect after blocking succesfully mindless attacks from opponents. Keep in mind that the recoil effect has to do also with the defender 's blocking skill and agility, strength stats of the 2 characters .

If Oblivion now would went on mmorpg launch well ofc it would need a small combat revamp but very small cause simply as it is it rocks. Only thing they would need to change is some skills values for making balance issues less annoying inisde the game,for pve and pvp purposes.

Besides the good with Oblivion character advancment and class development style is that there is NOT standard classes but instead People are building their own avatar as they imagine him picking any skill they like and advancing mostly with those they want to. And in this type of game there is NOT balance issues cause simply if a character build fails it means the player mad some bad choises during the levelling tour.

So you think that if the rumours of The elders scrolls online come true that wont it hit 1 million subs at least? Personally with all oblivions huge base around i think perhaps even more would try it. I cant tell if it would be a succes or wow killer but i think it would have great chance to rock the bliz boat.

Ok,so we have mostly the 2 types of diferrent aproach of mmorpg genre.

Theme park ,soemhow restricted mmorpg's wow,lotro etc and on the other hand the sandboxes,ultima online ,Darkfall etc

With a 1st view you can tell that theme park has millions subs, and sandboxes just some hundrends of thousands of subs. By that alone u can tell easilly that the majority of players prefer to play  mor easy mode,safe mode, less frustrated mmorpgs like wow (no corpse loot ,farmign dailies, model etc.

Ok lets think now a very succesfull SINGLE player roleplay game. Oblivion for example, most ppl from both themepark or sandbox clans  agree it is a good game ,with nice combat system ,good story,nice enviroment etc.

Oblivion is using a manual combat system unlike wow and other themepark games, and its more close to DF in combat style,adventuring etc.

Hmm i dont get it then. Why the majority isnt playing sandbox games then and prefer wow?

Perhaps the answer is the obvious. Because DF had very low standards of development maybe? Cause im sure that if Blizzard would desided to make a good sandbox mmorpg with manual combat ala darkfall, why the hell im 200% sure that almost every would play DF now? Once and for all! Everything has to do with a good designed product. If its good all will play it. If its crap or mediocre only a few will play it. Simple as that.

After reading some of the new stuff Cataclysm will bring to wow i mainly stuck with 2 thingies.

1. Rated Battlegrounds

The main pvp idea on vanilla wow was to run after the ranks and to do that there was a huge farming campaign by the players creating good premades with tactics where victory was a must in ab,wsg . Im sure we all heard hilarious stories about ppl that were doing bg's 16 per day ,i knew some guys that after 16 hours of bg's they let their brother play their toon for 8 more hours till they get back from sleep or work. Heh some will say that farming honour in bg's didnt define the quality or skills of the players and i cant disagree with that. But it was a time of fun allright ,remember also that bg's at that time was only bettween the same server and not the stupid crossed bg's system which in my opinion is a negative factor killing opposition battles bettween hordes and allies in the same server. I understand some low populated servers had queqe problems but  killing 15 servers so 5 wont have queqe probs? I remember i knew almost every horde enemy players in my server ( i was allie side) , there was actually an immersion, interactivity of some sort ,bettween the 2 sides,we were knowing eachother ,attacking eachother in forums,and generally there was something happening . Now with the crossed bgs? bah. Anyway the rated battlegrounds will hopefully bring back a more serious bg's than just farming kills,tactical battleplans ,and whatever we liked in the vanilla battlegrounds.

2. Archeology

One of the things that i always felt it was missing in wow as a roleplaing game was that it didnt had a deep character development system. No feats,traits, just 3 talent trees to pick from. If you check 2 pvp warriors for example u ll notice in most occasions the best pvp specc which most forums suggest,almosts ame gear,some warriros may use  couple of pve items to boost dmg maybe..but thats it. The addition of gems,was afirst small step to distinguish your self abit from the others, but its not enough. Archeology comes in cataclysm and it will offer one more step to deeper character development.

Hopefully at some point my hopes are that players will have the right the experiment discover thigns arent always suggested in forums as the best specc build, and classes will be soemhow different from each other eben ina profitable way that reweards smart ideas and discoveries about specc/gems/archeology build combos.

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by tazarconan

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by tazarconan 

 

Hello again !

 

First off, any type of game which requires skill, requires spaming keys. I have no idea what you mean by what you are writing :))

Secondly, I did play all Oblivion and loved it, and AoC combat > Oblivion by a lonnnnnng way. But you can't really compare it can you?

Thirdly, the best thing about AoC IMO is the pvp aspect, this is where the combat system shines. Obviously, you don't need much brains to kill a mob and hit attack, but fighting another skilled melee player with this system is joy!

Lasly, it's extremely realistic and immersive. When a guardian kocks me to the floor, I practically feel it in my bones, and when I am the one chopping someone's head off, or knocking a group of enemies down, I'"m in there, I'm my character.

That's why I cant let you say that the gameplay in AoC sucks.

There are MANY things that suck in AoC, no pvp content, no players, un balanced classes, lag, latency, imcompatibility with certain (mainly ATI) graphic cards, zone crashes, many people cheating and exploiting, DX10 not functionnig properly, bugs in so many areas that I can't just list them... 

But the GAMEPLAY fucking owns, it's the best out there.

Oblivion didnt required any spamming and it needed thoguht in order to kill some difficult(stronger opponents).

I said oblivion is single player but tbh i d love to see an exact and bit improved version of oblivion's combat in  an mmorpg and was hoping aoc would do it.

Yes i had around 40-50 pvp encounters in 1v1 or 2vs me situation and i agree it was fun.

Prob is i dont understand why funcom didnt used awsd +mouse left button for performing combos and instead used 3-4 sometimes 5 keys hitting in sequence to perform a single combo. I ts way more tiring this way. A simple example hitting a(left+Lmouse but. u could do a diferent move, hitting a 2ice+LMB another combo etc.Its way more easier this way and less tiring) . Blocking Parrying system is sigh*.

AS for the gameplay if u mean the manual combat part system ok. Prob is by meaning gameplay its not just the combat only, it is the things u can do in game . And here is what lacks aoc greately. Keep in mind that the majority of players prefer gameplay than grafix effects ,and if aoc was great in gameplay it would seriously compete wow in subs numbers. Cause sadly the success of a game is counted in subs numbers. Only excepetion was Ultima ONline but it apeared in an ERA were internet games werent in the frontline as it is now.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by tazarconan

You are 700% wrong..Let me explain.... Dk's were overpowered yes,but not because blizard needed 1 year almost to calculate them well ..They left them overpowered in PURPOSE for many months so many players will roll DK's and thats a fact. You really think with all those hundrends of employees,programmers and emplyed testers they have they couldnt calculate in 3-4 weeks of testing vs other classes? heh

No balance issue at all for not implementing all the heroic classes they made so far! Only reason is the sales/marketing policie which ofc is depending if there is any serious competiotion from other mmorpgs ! If a major blockbuster mmorpg in same quality of wow right now they would have thrown all those new classes +revamped /improved crafting system ALREADY!!!!!

 

Believe it or not, wow isn't perfectly balanced and there are constant balance changes to the game.  Yes even to classes that have been in the game for over 5 years now, they still get balance changes.

Which do you think is more plausable?  Developers have some secret agenda to get people to play new content (which they would anyhow) or that it is hard to get class balance right?

There are effectively 30 classes in wow with all the talent specs, which is a lot to balance.

 

 

@OP

I wouldn't mind another new class, but I don't think it is needed.  I'm looking forward to how they redesign the talent trees to make each choice have a tangible effect on how you play your class.  So talents will not give a 5% crit, but instead add an effect to an existing spell or a new ability all together.

Even if the changes are not huge, I'm looking forward to all the changes to the classes I already enjoy playing.  It will breath new life into more gameplay than if they just made one new class.

Each is good in their own way though.  When they do add a new class I hope it is a healer.

 

 

The balance changes made by blizzard are made mostly based on the complains in the wow official player forums. If loads of hunters during a season are complaining ,in the next patch hunter getting boosted. If loads of players complaining  about retris they will get nerfed in the next patch. Its just the way it is.

Take for example the resto druids in 70 lvl in bc. All complained about them for arenas and they got weakened. All complained after a certain point for Dk's and eventually slowly they got nerfed abit. Same about paladins prot and retris they are getting nerfed in the next patches. Blizzard isnt by accident the happy owner of N1 mmorpg in sales. They just do the obvious. They hear their customers and oblige by nerfing or boosting thisor that ,what ever the majority ask in forums. SImple as that. Now since there are  ppl that played 5 years almost wow its more than phisical to demand more than the few things blizard putted in in 5 years of evolvement. And yes new classes would give the thrill for loads of old wow players. If only pppl were askign more from bliz than just nerf this, boost that.

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by tazarconan 

and LESS  focus on GAMEPLAY. Its like their target is to impress 5-15 years old kids audience only. And this goes to almost all developers not just Funcom.

 

 

Hi, I just had to react to your last sentence.

 

What do you call gameplay? For me, the gameplay in AoC is above any that I have ever seen in a RPG, it's the most fun and the most "deep" in the sense that the more you play, the better you get at it.

You can really tell the difference between a guy who's been playing for 3 months or 1 year thanks to the way he moves, lands combos etc.

Basically, it's a lot more skill based, which I bleieve is a more interesting GAMEPLAY than many other games. As much as I like to criticise AoC, the GAMEPLAY you talk about is the best thing it has, it's real time, fast, and responsive.

Playing a melee in AoC feels much more realistic than any other RPG I tested before, including WoW.

If the gameplay in Aoc is better than any other RPG u ever played then it is obvious u havent played any good rpg's so far. In terms of manual combat system yes.. AOc is the best try out there so far coming second to Oblivion but Oblivion is sigle player rpg ofc.Some ddo fans will disagree ofc claiming that Aoc 's combat is more spamming and less tactical than Ddo's.

Surely its skilled based ,xpirienced Aoc players will handle combat better ,but to become one u must endure the tiring spam of keys . I explained in my thread how they could very easilly implement lots of combat moves and combos without needed the player to play piano on keyboard.

As for wha u said about playing a melee class in aoc is more realistic than wow well yes sure ,i agree. I Always prefered manual combat system vs wow auto-attack system+spaming few skills. Only u cant really compared due its diferrent combat style. If you want my opinion wow's combat thoguh is far more fluid and works better especially in pve,which in Aoc seemed to me a lot dull and silly spamming abilities. If they find a way to increase the cost of energy permove so the players wont be able to spamm atatacks and think more their next move carefully(its called tactical combat) i d agree. Not to mention block / parry system in aoc is tragic till now.

I tried at start Aoc and quited in 34 lvl with my barbarian and went back to wow. Recently i resubscribed and after 4 days i quited again andd went back to wow.

Now i tried to realise why.

Grafix are great as u said.

Music is great also.

Atmosphere and setting too.

Combat system has great cool animations ,very nice fatalities and stuff too.

Classes are better and more complex than wow.

SO..Why the hell i went back to wow twice?

1.Combat system is somehow tiring ,since the player has to play piano in keyboard to do all these combos. I never managed to play evrytime more than 2 -3 hours of continual play in Aoc simply cause my hands/fingers  getting tired. I was yelling during Aoc development that the combat system should be made complex yes,but EASY to use..More in the standards of oblivion (Lef tmouse button attack,right mouse button block/parry) . If u want to put many combos in a game u dont have to spam your keyboard necessary. Perfect example is Severance bLade of Darkness (much more easier combo keysetups).

2. Pve instancing. I found myself in a 35 instance with 4 more players. Most of the guys including me were just involved in a massive spamming attacks during the whole instance. Its just the way game is made. Rarely u try to choose the tactical aspect of this game simple because the game gives u the right to attack all times very fast. They SHOULD make the combat SLOWER. I mean by that that every attack should cost alot more energy so there would be a tactical aspect from player's side.Otherwise combat pve and pvp becomes a spam fest!!!!!!

3.Lack of endgame serious pvp with ladder system that gives the player a motivation to go endgame pvp. Somethign similar with wow arenas. Yes guild vs guild ,sieges attack other guilds,mass pvp is good,great for some,but unfair and unbalanced for many others too. I like both pvp types but they should have organised and balanced arena style pvp system too with rewards etc.

4. From what i read pve endgame is loads behind compared to other big titles too.

At the end someone can notice that whats happening in Aoc is a symptom of our times.

Great graficks, little work from devs,instanced worlds, instead of a massive solid well designed world, and LESS  focus on GAMEPLAY. Its like their target is to impress 5-15 years old kids audience only. And this goes to almost all developers not just Funcom.

Originally posted by ilydamdris

The reason they haven't implimented more classes, is because just adding one, as the DK has shown, has proven that the balancing issues required to get every class right takes too much work. When DK launched they could hardly be beaten. You'd have to be exceptionally good at your particular class, and the DK not so much, for you to have a chance at beating them. They had an ability to counter almost everything a melee and caster class could throw at you. It has taken almost an entire year for them to get DK's to the point where they're still tough, but able to be beaten by players on a much more acceptable basis. Since this is a pvp game as well as pve, adding classes to it adds more work then they probably want to take on at the moment. If anything I'd expect them to release another hero class either as a big patch(I.E 3.5 or 3.6 etc) or in the expansion after Cataclysm if there is one. There is so much that goes into creating a class than just *poof* here you go. So many tweeks and changes have to be made not only to THAT class, but if necessary all of the other classes to make sure that they can't easily be beaten, or destroy everything in their paths. DK taught everyone a lot. An entire year in about a week, and they're STILL trying to get DK where they want it.

You are 700% wrong..Let me explain.... Dk's were overpowered yes,but not because blizard needed 1 year almost to calculate them well ..They left them overpowered in PURPOSE for many months so many players will roll DK's and thats a fact. You really think with all those hundrends of employees,programmers and emplyed testers they have they couldnt calculate in 3-4 weeks of testing vs other classes? heh

No balance issue at all for not implementing all the heroic classes they made so far! Only reason is the sales/marketing policie which ofc is depending if there is any serious competiotion from other mmorpgs ! If a major blockbuster mmorpg in same quality of wow right now they would have thrown all those new classes +revamped /improved crafting system ALREADY!!!!!