Depends on how do we describe "old time MMO" and "new time MMO". Is Lotro, WoW - new time MMOs? Or is Istaria old-time MMO?

In this situation (if I am to answer to investors), I would go for almost any MMO that could make money. I think, there is high probability users would buy (subscirbe, cash-shop) something innovative, something new.

Voted "new time", though it would be nice if OP explains what imn his eyes new and old time MMOs means.

And I do think there is so much sexism and terrorism of poor defenseless Betelgeusians. Everyone calls them in the worst words, they are opressed, harrased and cannot defend themselves. No game moderator would ever listen to them and any game support would not accept their pleas for defense.

No doubt, we have too little laws and/or law enforcement to protect that terrible harrasement. WoW did not allow ribons "Support Betelgeusians, Do Not Harrass Them".

Well, the small problem is, Betelgeusians does not exist at all...but that's the smallest part. If I want to find a problem in gaming, I will. Poor player told he has a poodle and someone laughed: what a terrible harrasement! Someone told he liked birds, someone laughed at that: nightmare!

I never saw any sexism in games. There are just two parts: good players and bad players.  There are newcomers and veterans. I never cared who the player was in real life: man or woman. It just doesn't bother me. I never saw any sexist action. Never heared about one, even in Lotro (which is not so tiny game).

Yes, I witnessed lousy players that did not want to do anything: they just whined "Oh Mr. Big Hero, plz do this for me, plz plz plz". Once again, I did not care if they were men or women.

I think the author takes some idiots - too seriously. If a person threatens to rape another person, it's offense and has nothing to do with the sex, views or favourite chocolate of the offender.

Speaking on chocolate:would we receive a review that "Mars" eaters usually offend those who eat "Snickers"? McDonalds lovers offend BurgerKing ones?

Answers from F2P player:

1. "Yes, you can" (copyright by B.Obama, non-Lotro toon). You can buy all the expansions, remove all the restrictions. Buying any stuff from Turbine store for real cash makes you Premium user (i.e. swift travel unlocked, can send money). Paying some 15$ a month makes you VIP (entitled to 500 Turbine points monthly and PvP, called "monster play").

Please remember that when new expansion comes - you will have to buy it.

2. Not sure about higher levels. Maybe veterans of Lotro could answer more clearly. As for me, I am F2P and buy all stuff using Turbine points...yet I do not consider myself somewhat different from, say, any other lvl.43 Dwarf Champion.

---

According to store.turbine.com it may cost you:

Riders of  Rohan: 40$ (optional: 69$ worth pack that also gives you 2000 Turbine points)

Expansion triple pack (Moria, Isengard, Mirkwood): 40$

Sanwise McGee starter pack: 10 $

If you want to unlock some regions  (North Downs, Trollshaws...Evendim?) and NOT buy them using Turbine points, you may want to become VIP for one month (+15$).

Well, then you may become a VIP for some time. VIPs do get 500 TPs a month just because they are VIPs. So, if you do not use those TPs and (inevitably) get some on your own - several months later you may unlock thing you want to. Shared vault I - no problem, just 2 months of playing. Some serious expansion, like Moria? no problem, 5 months of play and voila, expansion is yours. And you don't have to pay additionally, just sit and wait.

That's one option. Second option: let us say, you start playing Dwarf race. You start with Ered Luin, do deeds there (inevitably). Then you go to Bree land through Shire and may grow up there by doing quests/deeds. Finally, you reach Bree and do (once again inevitably) quests/deeds. Thus you grow up, do almost all deeds (except most grindy like killing Slugs or maybe 450 spiders in Barrow of Taradan), gain additional TPs and still have fun.

[QUOTE]If i don't pay, i'm restricted on... everything? Bag space, gold limit, quests, instances, PvP, classes, character slots, crafting, mail, auction house, gear, traits, riding, chat, XP, wardrobe, skirmishes... Don't get me wrong, i'm not one of those who want everything for free, i'm willing to pay. Actually that's where things seem dirty for me. If i go VIP, i still need to pay to unlock expansions. If i want the full game and VIP for one month, it would cost me 40$ for the first 3 expansions, 40$ for the new expansion (it's not that "new" anymore mind you) and 15$ for VIP, making it 95$ here. For that money, there are way WAY better deals on the market than some game from almost 6 years ago.[/QUOTE]

Bag space is limited even for VIPs, you have to unlock some 5th and 6th bags (I guess...since I'm f2p)

Gold limit: yes, you have the limit as f2p

Quests: epic quests are free to every person, f2p or not. Quests from region that needs to be bought from store - yes, they are locked unless you buy that region quests and deeds from Turbine store...or rent it being VIP

Instances: haven't seen any instance, locked to f2p.

PvP: yes, unavailable to f2p

Classes: with Mines of Moria expansion - you may get all classes as f2p

Character slots: as f2p you get 2 slots per server. Given there are some 20 servers, I guess 40 characters may be enough for the begining.

Crafting:everything available to f2p. I can confirm it as Artisan Weaponsmith.

Auction house: yes, restricted for f2p. Still, 95 Turbine points is what one toon may easily achieve.

Riding: as VIP you have to do quest, as f2p you must purchase. Still, 95 TPs which is not very much.

XP: xp is free for everyone. Even legendary xp stopper is available from the store only.

I think you will do quests in Lotro. Doing them you will make deeds almost automatically. Bree-land deeds, from reputation to killing 30 poor innocent spiders are worth some 260 TPs. Let us think, you then go to the Shire where all enemies are way below your own level and you kill them without mercy with 2 hits: yet another ~200 TPs. Ered-Luin, elven and dwarven lands, very easy deeds/quests: yet some 150 Turbine points. Add deeds that will almost auto-complete (like "strike with ABC attack for NN times") and you will get some 600 Turbine points for the basic deeds only. So, if you make 4 toons and each makes only basic quests - you have enough points to buy content.

I play this way, 4 toons on Whithywindle, 3 toons on Silverlode and 2 toon on Dwarrowdelf. I don't see real problems running my lvl.23 toon to the Shire, killing 90 harvest flies and earning 15 TPs. Or killing some wolves in a den where there are many wolves and earning another 15 TPs. What I achieved -without paying anything - was: 1) Mines of Moria expansion pack; 2) Angmar quest pack; 3) Evendim quest pack; 4) shared vault' 5) gold cap removal; 6) riding skill; 7) trait space (can't remember how many).

All this was done just by levelling up my 3 main toons.

Of course, f2p is to blame. It is f2p that has done every single evil in history since Adam and Eve (for sure, Devil was f2p...). If not f2p, there would be no evil, no bad games, no half-done games, no rude players, no scamming, no gold-farming at all.

The author is terribly wrong on two main topics:

1) focusing on Sims and some 2 other games. Looks like there are more online games than 3 on the market and errors of "Sims" are not necesserily errors of all other games. That is, if John is blonde Lithuanian and he instantly forgets where his glasses are - does it mean all blonde Lithuanian males instantly forget where their glasses are?

2) author has not played any other MMORPG except ones he mentioned. I would like to invite him to play some titles. First example - Istaria. No cash shop, no pay-to-win. You may win with Human race and without plot and every single item is obtainable in-game: most crafted, some - looted from monsters. I also would like to invite the author to the Lord of the rings online: you may purchase xp boosts, mounts...explansion packs by grinding for Turbine points. You may enjoy their shop without spending a cent - Turbine points only. Of course, you are more than encouraged and reminded about being "VIP", but you can bypass it.

The author also does not see (i.e. does not want to see) bad games that were either P2P or B2P.  It's just F2P that is bad.

Finally, the author makes another logical mistake: he fails to see difference between f2p and p2w. Explaining: if player can enjoy full game content without paying in real cash, it is free-to-play; if player cannot enjoy full game content without paying real cash - it's pay-to-win.  Example: in game A, player can go anywhere, do any quest for free (however, player can be of limited race or have no personal house) - game A. is f2p. In game B player can't go anywhere, do some quests (player may also be limited in housing), but he may "unlock" anything with in-game currency/points - game B still is free-to-play. in game C, player can't go anywhere, do some quests, may also be limited in housing, but he may "unlock" anything with real currency - game C is pay-to-win.

Government voting for law that describes what is MMORPG, what is in-game currency and even establishing some Board to take control of all in-game currencies, from Turbine points to Second-Life "Linda dollars".

Just right.

Well, it's not government business. I have being approached many times in Runescape with things like "Buy rune armor from me for only NNN" and whren I refused - "me iz RS admin and me will ban u".  Is it government business? Or maybe government should regulate power-levelling and PvPing?

No, no and one more time no. I don't want Government to interfere here. Gold farmers deserve severe punishments in-game, be it permadeath, permaban or turning then into level 1 chickens that everyone hunts.

The problem with PVE is that it is that once you know how to do it, it loses its charm.

Disagree. In istaria, one player told me she went to kill certain Golem each time she chose new school. One time as Cleric with tons of heals, second time as Warrior with strong hits, third time as Shaman with lots of curses/life stealing. When I am bored in Istaria, I come to low-level monster zone and just kill poor lvl.2 grulets with some tool, say, needle or mining pick. I gain no xp, I got no trophies - it's just fun.

Fun.

The word OP forgot. It may be just fun to kill some monster or help someone to kill or come without armor against 5 monsters.

Developers employ grind mechanics as a damage control and as a result we have silly things like gear grinds.

Let me doubt if grind can be eliminated in MMORPG. One would grind in PvP for some prestige/legacy/whatever. One would grind in crafting (gather 1 ton of resources, make 100 StormRifles, deconstruct all StormRifles and repet...).

PVE, if done right, may not be boring. One monster is social and would aid any of his kind. Another is un-social and won't help anyone. One named monster may be stronger than another same level named monster. Yet another monster may spawn limitless monstress to aid him. Some monsters may be "human-like" and have some abilities players have. Some monsters may be hard even for a strong group of players (I could tell about Blood skulks in Istaria...).

One can try different tactic just out or interest. Would Great Sandstone Rabbit be killed with Smashing Sword or is Fire Rain better? What about if I attack with with Spear of Energy? Use Reflect Shots? Cast a spell that aggro 10 Great Sandstone Rabbits and try to hold off without any spell?

Conclusion: PVE may be interesting if done right and updated/changed from time to time.

I'm a male and my main toons are male only. However, my "clone toons" (one who does grind for me) are all females and have names with little meaning (once got some "lover" asking if I was really female and that "lover" needed girl-friend in that MMORPG...).

Why did I create them? I need to have lots of toons to grind Turbine points in Lotro (it's pretty legal there) and I don't care how that character would look like or how his/her name would sound. it could be "Abc" or "Noname1".

Of course, honest answer is - as often as they are bug free... Another topic: what do we call an update? Renaming NPC or changing reward for quest - is it an update? Or is introduction of new continent and newa armor  - an update?

In my opinion update covers new content or some radical changes, i.e.: in this month, our player get twenty Evil Chicken Slayer quests; from this month structures that were used by one race only are usable by all races...and alike.

Those updates I'd like to see each month. Big updates (new continent, new races etc) should not be often.

Well, I see this banner as well - but having slow PC at work means I do disable every ad everywhere, be it news site or mmorpg.com. Slow PC is slow PC, my Firefox freezes sometimes on innocent news article (ctrl-alt-del helps...).So, I should either ignore mmorpg.com at work or browse it without ads.

Staff may blame and curse me, but I choose a bit faster browsing without ads.

Progression is not bad - it may inspire to grow for a long and long. Finished Ice Monk - ok, go for Fire Hunter, finished Fire Hunter - go for Slug Warrior etc etc etc...untill all 99 classes are up to top (and each class is harder and harder to master).

I think it is the MMORPG that should offer something extra - and once again, I will refer to Istaria. My toon has finished several fighting schools and several crafting schools as well. I could grind for experience, turning in trophies or power-levelling...but instead, I craft day and night, gaining no xp.

Why? Just because I do want to help other people with their plots and buildings. I craft tier 1 or tier 2 stuff, add it to structures and enjoy seing how structure appears out of scaffold. Or sometimes I just go to starting area, asking new players if they need fire support / tools / weapons. It is now and it would be when I will reach end-game (level 100 in all schools).

And please notice, I am progression fan, I do love to see how level numbers increase, be it fighting or crafting. I just saw another aspect of the game: fun without xp. I go near couple animals and cast some funny spell on them: it has no result, but just looks nice. I go to aid structures - and owner will never know it was I that helped. Or I just go to help some newbie: be it Dragon who wants more treasure for hoard or some biped in need to kill that terrible lvl.10 grulet.

In short: players should see some other "side" purpose. Istaria has plots and everyone may help other person's buildings. The world is large and there are so many buildings waiting to be completed.

An half-offtopic.

I use to post at webhostingtalk writing about my host and my own experience with it. I see other people posting. Most of content used to be "this host is bad", "avoid that host", "host ABC is a scam" and alike. While some hosts were really bad, avoidable and some even scammed users - most problems were due to user. One teenager did not eait 24-72 hours for domain name to propagate - hence bad review ending with "oops, my bad".

What I do is very simple: I do write there every month and tell what I have experienced, be it good or bad. One time I did mess things: some scripts caused bad things and I wrote in a hurry - "ABC host is not that good". Host reacted quickly and politely quoting how many scripts (several hundred) I had on my own site...

Now to topic:

as one proverb says, unsatisfied customer will tell to 100 persons, satisfied - to 10.  People mostly like to post about negative things. People (mostly) like to complain and be prophets: either new MMORPG would kill others or fail and sometimes discussions are about "fail" or "epic fail".

I do not state that everyone does so, but it seems most people do. So, the problem is not mmorpgs, but players who await "killer of [enter title]" or claim anything "fail / epic fail". People just need to be more positive.

Noobish question form f2p about expansions and regions.

There are "locked" regions where quests are possible only if you are vip or buy quest pack. And there are expansions, like Mines of Moria.

The question: if I buy MoM expansion (not quest pack!) with TP in the store - would I have any access to "locked" regions? Or should I purchase each one separately?

Not sure if it was mentioned:

Istaria:chronicles of the gifted

Graphic may not be super-mega. All content available to paying and free customers. Only difference is that f2p play only Human race and cannot buy land plots.

What I can not understand is a war between P2P and F2P. One person would enjoy p2p only (without cashs hops and any restrictions). Another person would enjoy free world (with some restrictions and possible cash shop).

What's wrong then? I like McDonalds, you like Hesburger, but we both like same type of food. Why say ""McDonalds:you don''t want this" or "Hesburger:you don't want this"?

Once I saw a movie where one woman escaped from mafia prison, grabbed a bag with cash and went to buy a car. She chose a car and then asked some shoes to be sold. Seller goes to manager: "Sir, this mad woman wants shoes to the car, but we don't sell shoes!". Manager: "Do you want to know why you are still seller and I am manager?". Seller: "yes". Manager: "This woman is a wise one, because she came to shop with us".

In short: if user choses pay-to-play model, it's ok. If user choses buy-to-play model, it's ok. If user choses freemium (please note I do not use word "free" since no game is 100% free) content, it's ok. Companies just adapt to this. If all users would start requesting that all food in any MMORPG would be called "burger", companies would surely rename to burgers.

In Lithuania some students launched an online game (cosmic strategy). Freemium, of course: want to accelerate that building - pay in cash. One person spent some 600 $ in a day and they asked why. "I just did not want to wait" - told that person from some Scandinavian country.

So - if users are willing to use freemium model, what's wrong with it? I do not claim future is for f2p, p2p or b2p. So far freemium content is what seems to be future.

One more note: even at freemium content, you may play and spent zero dollars zero cents. No one forces you to pay (yes, that cool armor won't be yours and that line of quests won't be yours too, but you can still enjoy the game). It's up to you, no company would ever push you "buy or get banned".

First suggestion: lord of the rings online. A bit grindy, if you don't pay a penny. has PvE, and PvP requests may be turned off.

If graphic would not be a priority - I'd reccomend Istaria with its multiclassing abilities and it is really free to play, no greed like "pay only 99,99$ for this cool set of armor". However, graphic in Istaria is not as good as in Lotro.

I levelled my Champion very quickly starting as a noob. There was some help from outside - one good player gave me Medium and Heavy class armor and I had some fights when i was helped.

Overall - do quests, there are many of them for all combat levels (not sure about the crafting). And if you have patience - grind for Deeds, they grant you Turbine Points and some cool titles. Some are "find X place" type, some are "kill N monsters, then kill Nx2 monsters" type". Example: kill 30 spiders for title "ABC land adventurer", then "Kill 60 spiders for ABC land adventurer (advanced).

However, my knowledge is limited to lvl. 20 only - after lvl.18 paid content begins.