I'm looking for the most populated server, because I love to group and don't want any trouble finding groups for all of the Books/Chapters as I level up a new toon.

I also value a mature community.

Thanks.

Originally posted by seabass2003

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by seabass2003

First skip Larry's post.

 

Second they kill slower than a Runekeeper Hunter and Champion but faster than the rest of the classes which is amazing for a tanking class.

Third the spear gets the highest buff from traits but you are in no way required to use just the spear.

Fourth of course they can tank and I already answered the DPS.

Fifth they have some awesome ranged abilities. One of them you get a t a low level where you throw your javelin which dazes the creature then you get a speed buff to where you haul ass up the the creature and start pounding its face. Pretty fun to me.

Hopefully this helped a bit. Ask away if you want to know anything else.

 

I was going to buy MoM over WoTLK, because I loved the way the Warden sounded before I read they use Javelins. This is the first time I heard they could use a sword, which is the only melee weapon I will use in a RPG. You mentioned a range ability through the use of a javelin: does this mean I need to unequip my sword to do this, or is there a ranged slot I can put the javelin in? If I need to unequip the sword, how tediious is it to do and do most people bother doing it?

You said DPS scales better when using the javelin. I can understand this, considering the class was built around that weapon, but is the Warden still viable using a sword? Am I seriously gimping myself if I use a sword?

Lastly, does the Warden get a choice of using a Legendary Sword?

No the main hand weapon and javelin are seperate slots so no need to swap out. I think the spear is 5% better than the sword at the very end. Any weapon they can use you can find as a Legendary. I have a Legendary First-Age mace of all things LOL.
 

Also if I had to describe the fightting style for the warden watch the movie 300 and Troy and watch the spartans and Achilles fight. Very similar movements and I feel they must have been inspired by those two movies to make the warden so similar. Using a sword might get you some wierd looks but I don't feel will hamper you ability to be a warden.

Turbine gave an interview about the design process for Warden's and they did say their inspiration for the class was from the movie 300.

Hmm, sounds interesting, but I wish I could use them at lvl 1 like heirlooms in WoW. Leveling up weapons sound like a little how artifacts in DAoC worked.

Originally posted by seabass2003

First skip Larry's post.

 

Second they kill slower than a Runekeeper Hunter and Champion but faster than the rest of the classes which is amazing for a tanking class.

Third the spear gets the highest buff from traits but you are in no way required to use just the spear.

Fourth of course they can tank and I already answered the DPS.

Fifth they have some awesome ranged abilities. One of them you get a t a low level where you throw your javelin which dazes the creature then you get a speed buff to where you haul ass up the the creature and start pounding its face. Pretty fun to me.

Hopefully this helped a bit. Ask away if you want to know anything else.

I was going to buy MoM over WoTLK, because I loved the way the Warden sounded before I read they use Javelins. This is the first time I heard they could use a sword, which is the only melee weapon I will use in a RPG. You mentioned a range ability through the use of a javelin: does this mean I need to unequip my sword to do this, or is there a ranged slot I can put the javelin in? If I need to unequip the sword, how tediious is it to do and do most people bother doing it?

You said DPS scales better when using the javelin. I can understand this, considering the class was built around that weapon, but is the Warden still viable using a sword? Am I seriously gimping myself if I use a sword?

Lastly, does the Warden get a choice of using a Legendary Sword?

Hi,

I'm big into character customization. In fact, it's probably the largest selling point when it comes to playing RPG's. I've heard about the Legendary Weapons off and on for a few months now, but never really looked into it.

I understand Legendary Weapons are something you get and they grow more powerful as you level, but I don't know how you get them, what they look like, what kind of variety you have for each class, what level you get them, or if this is expanded to armor as well (Legendary Armor).

WoW has something similar, called heirloom items. You get heirloom items through endgame play (Wintergrasp PvP, 5-mans, 10/25 man raids). They are bound to your account, so you can use the items on any character as long as they meet the requirement. These heirloom items can be used at lvl 1 and grow in power as you level up and until level 80.

Thanks for any clarification. I've been lvl 80 for 2 weeks now and running Heroics aren't really useful anymore for my main character. Raiding is hard to get into on my schedule, due to the majority of people wanting to raid for 6 hours at a time. My guild is interested in raiding, but won't for probably another month or two. So I'm left to PUGing raids whenever I can, which isn't often (maybe once a week) and the rest of my time leveling an alt (bleh!).

I was/have been thinking about trying LoTRO out again, but I admit to liking WoW more. Now that I'm pretty much done with WoW or don't have much to do that I really want to do, I've been thinking about maybe subbing to LoTRO.

I've heard that plenty of reasons why I left still remain, so I've been hesitant. Such as groups being hard to find; or groups rushing through the content, since they know it really well; classes still feeling bland by many people. I played on Lanroval (sp?) and I read a review a month ago on how things are still like that on that server and other reviews describing the community being like that on other servers. I'm a grouper by nature, but appreciate solo play as well when I can't group. I found WoW to have a great balance of group v. solo play and LoTRO was similar, except they had Books: Chapters, which I always loved. I never got far enough to raid, but couldn't due to my internet connection (reason I left last time).

So anyways, sorry for being long-winded, but if you all can clarify things I am unclear on, I'd be thankful.

With just under 4k votes casts for this award, it shows how little read this website is by the majority of MMO players in the genre. I mean hell, 4k people is almost what DAoC has active on a daily basis.

So I take these awards with a grain of salt, because these rewards don't represent what the majority think or what professionals think like most serious awards.

I honestly though mmorpg.com was read by a much wider playerbase than it really is, but I guess we all can't be right all the time. It's a good thing I'm trying to only come here for updates on MMO's in general now, because that's something the mmorpg.com staff is pretty good at keeping us up-to-date on.

I really apologize to those who will read my post and get bent out of shape over it, but look at this from my point of view. I looked forward to these awards to see what the majority of MMO player out there thought about the game. I've viewed these awards for a few years now. Only now I've noticed that less than .01 % of all MMO players out there actually voted on these rewards. Knowing that less than .01% of the MMO population voted for the rewards, how special do these nominations really mean to people now?

Oh, forgot to reply about WAR and AoC. I'm not sure why WAR and AoC failure threads are popping up like crazy, but this has been rehashed a dozen times over already. Some people made some really good points in the last thread that popped up on this yesterday.

There isn't a lot of new people coming into the genre. So what you have is game developers canabalizing players from other games. Currently, WoW is top dog and offers the best gameplay experience for the majority of this pool of players. So, as long as a game developer is going to create a quest based/level game, they are going to fail, unless it can beat WoW or catch WoW on a year where they aren't releasing an expansion. Simply put, WAR and AoC tried to beat WoW on their own turf.

Now this next point can be argued with points in favor for both sides, but simply put, EvE is the only other game that comes to mind that offers something completely different and has the subs to show for it. I cannot stand EvE as a game, because it bores the shit out of me, but I respect the hell out of that game, because it dares to be different. That game continues to gain subscribers as time goes by. It's a slow pace, but atleast the sub. numbers aren't going down like every other game on the market, except for WoW.

I think LoTRO is also successful, because they released at a time when WoW was getting old and no other quest/level based game released in a polished state. LoTRO did released polished and offered a solid, albeit boring game, so it retained subscriptions. I respect Turbine for LoTRO, because they stuck to their guns and took their time to release a polished game. It's not as good as WOW, but it's a nice alternative if you ever get bored of WoW and want to experience a different story.

After playing MMORPG's since 2001, I'm still not sure if PvP has a place in MMO's. The fact is most people just plain suck at PvP, which ruins the experience for not only them as they die continuosly, but for the few good players that die along with them in fustration as the bad players refuse to listen or just don't have the skills to listen. I'm fine with that; it's their money and they deserve to spend it the way they want. My point being is that PvP is unbalanced in every game I've tried and probably won't ever be balanced and still be an interesting game on the PvE side of things.

I too believe PvP is best reserved for FPS games, where you can log in when you want and your main goal is to rack up the most kill counts or the least death counts. However, in games that offer a world over game design, such as the up and coming Darkfall, PvP probably needs to exist to make the world feel more real. I still think the PvP system will be abused in that game and won't be much fun for RPers like me that like PvP in a game to make things real, but we'll see...if the game releases and isn't a failure.

As for class balance, I believe classes SHOULDN"T be balanced in PvE. I really love the way DnD and all its offshoots (KoToR) has done classes for the past few decades. Every class has a strength and a weakness. Every class brings something to the table that another does not. This allows for roles to be filled in a group. Every class also allows for a new play experience as you go through the old content in the game. Things kind of made sense in DnD. Every class could deal dmg and solo well, but every class had a weakness.

My game of choice is WoW right now. I don't exactly believe in the way WoW has done things as far as PvE balance. I never agreed with PvE balance, because quite frankly, some classes should be more powerful than others due to their nature. It just makes sense that a Mage is more powerful than a Warrior, because they can kill you before you get to them. What makes classes in WoW dull sometimes is that every class has skills they can counter basically everything with, which makes choosing a class pointless. For instance, where a Mage should win due to range advantage, they will die when a Warrior charges in and uses a silence maneuver to keep the Mage from casting.

I think WoW is a classic example of balancing classes for PvP, which turned out to make classes more dull in the process for PvE.

I don't even know why I'm replying to this thread, because bottom line, I've accepted the way things are as can be seen by me still being subscribed to an MMO. You learn to live with things you don't like to get things you do like. The good must always outweigh the bad, and in WoW, it does for me.

I converted to WoW, AFTER playing WAR. My first and most favorite game was DAOC; I played it for years before leaving for SWG in 2005. That's my background, so here's my opinion on why WAR didn't achieve what it was aiming for.

First and foremost, they started by puting a bad taste in the players mouths by cutting 4 cities and 4 classes. Secondly, the game is shallow in comparison to WoW (the competition). All WAR offers that has any resemblance of quality is their RvR, but even then, WoW does better with Wintergrasp and Sands of the Ancients. Siege is 10x better in WoW than in WAR and PvP in the RvR area is a lot more fun. Classes on a 1v1 basis have a lot better chance at doing well, plus there's the tenacity buff, which puts the outnumbered side on an even playing field. To top this off, the PvE experience is best in class, so WAR flopped, because it wasn't better than the competition. The sad part is that WAR's RvR is worse than WoW's RvR.

Lastly, WAR has turned into a game that is best played like an FPS game, except with gear progression. The majority of people I ran into on Pheonix Throne only PvPed and bought Reknown Gear. Hardly anyone paid any attention to the PvE areas. I actually like the FPS games better if all I'm going to do is PvP. At least in FPS games, I am on a level playing field and only my skill at the game matters, not the level, class, or the gear I'm wearing. (Note: Not much different in WoW, except driving siege vehicles around is fun, and classes are balanced 1v1).

I really wish Mythic didn't waste their time on WAR and instead created an updated DAoC. Now that would have made me happy!

Being that I got my start and experience in DAoC, I believe I have a right to say that balancing realm versus realm is a mistake. The developers can never tell which classes will be played more than others, and the paper>rock>scissors approach is outdated. Players want to be able to compete, no matter who decided to que up for scenarios or walk onto the RvR battlefield.

P.S. - I hate WoW PvP, so that's saying something about WAR's dull RvR.

Originally posted by Conley

I disagree with 2 points of this review. Customer service and lag. Customer service is something personal, and its hard to ascertain any of it from one persons experience. I've had to call customer service twice in my life and in both cases i was immediatly connected and immediatly helped. I'm in Europe though, perhaps the situation in the U.S. is worste.

 

I really disagree with lag though. In my experience most lag is the result of lack of RAM. I've got 4 GB ram and while many of my guildies who own "lesser systems" complain about lag, I have a minimal amount of it, even during big wintergrasp battles or in Dalaran. However, even the lag that some people experience there is nothing, NOTHING compared to the absurd amount of lag that people have experienced in games like Vanguard and AoC.

 

Finally, I think Wintergrasp could be given some more mention. In my opinion wintergrasp is the single best addition to the expansion, It's warcraft as its meant to be, and frankly puts sieging in other games like AoC and Warhammer to shame. If theres one complaint about it it is that there should be far more of it.

I do agree that gnome death knights are retarded, but thats mainly because it doesn't fit into our expectations model of what a death knight should be. Lore wise, and logically, there isn't any reason why a gnome shouldn't be raised as a deathknight by the lich king.

I was running my super computer with only 2GB of 400ghz RAM while using Vista 32bit. My FPS dropped to single digit sometimes while flying. Now that I put in 4 gigs of 800ghz OCZ high performance RAM for $19.99, I haven't experienced any lag, so I agree that the new expansion is RAM intensive.

I just hit lvl 80 on my DK almost a week ago. I completed Howling Fjord, Borean Tundra, Dragon Blight, Grizzly Hills, Zul'Drak, and many quests in Scholazar Basin including the instances and group quests to level to 80. I still had the rest of Scholazar Basin, Crystal Forest, Icecrown, and Stormpeaks to complete, if I wanted to see all of the content, which I do, which is why I'm still questing.

I want to reemphasize how great this expansion is. The whole story surrounding Northrend is massive. The contenent itself has an overall story that you're working through. Each zone contributes to that overall story along with providing a zone wide story. Several mini-stories are  apart of the zone wide story. So in essense, you have stories, within a story, within a larger story.

Controlling vehicles is fun. There are a "ton" of different vehicles you can take control of, even as low as lvl 68. The instances are a lot of fun. They look great, and they all have their challenges to overcome and learn before the instance becomes gravy. At this moment I have 3 Epics, have done 2 raids, in both their Heroic and non-Heroic form and have done Heroic 5 mans to death. Practice makes perfect and if you're a new grouup to an instance or raid, it will be a challenge.

Wintergrasp, the PvP zone where you fight for a keep with siege vehicles and cannons etc, which if you win provides access to a 1 boss raid zone, can be a lot of fun. I'm not really into PvP in this game, because the class balance just sucks. A Rogue who can stun lock you the entire fight, even after you pop a crowd control release, is just overpowered. Anyways, they added a new BG as well and it involves siege vehicles as well.

The performance is touchy in the game, and I run a super computer created to run next generation games. I don't think Northrend was optimized as well as the rest of the game and I wonder where all that money went that they earned. Perhaps the servers cannot handle so many people with the upgrade in graphics....who knows.

Anyways, the expansion is a lot of fun and has me hooked on this game for at least a few more months. I started playing seriously a month before WoTLK released, but before that I never could get into the game. I'd say WoW is the best MMORPG on the market pound for pound.

Originally posted by Laiina

Originally posted by Sinent

I have found the same thing and usally it can be attributed to the fact its really tuff to find groups or reason to group.

 

I think that is the key with WOTLK, at least for me. LK was too easy, and the gear itemization was poorly done.

There are so many easy ways to get purple gear for both pve and pvp that it rapidly becomes a "why bother" thing with groups and heroics etc.

If I did max out most factions and got tons of heroic emblems, it would only allow me about a 5% max upgrade in all gear.

Why bother. ATM I am pretty much reduced to doing a couple of the really easy and quick dailies, like the cooking one, and even there it all has kind of a "bleh" feeling to it.

I "bother" because I like grouping and I like doing Heroics and Raids. Getting Epics are nice, but getting Epics isn't the main reason I run those. Once I run them so much that they aren't a challenge anymore, I'll probably quit until a new patch has released with more raids and heroics.

I'm fairly impressed with WoW. It's a well polished game with more thought put into the design and continuous design of the game than a person would think just glancing at it. It's a lot better when you've played WC 3 and understand first hand the things you are encountering.

Blizzard has a way of creating stories within stories, that culminate in the climax of another story. All the while, you're getitng new gear, skills, and making friends. Every Northrend zone, for example, has a few seperate mini-stories, which are set in the backdrop of the zone story. That zone story plays into the entire continents story.

If you like a good story, I don't see why anyone would get burnt out with WoW until after they've completed all the content. Most people who get burnt out admit to not caring about the lore and admit to not reading the quests. So in essense, the person is "grinding" their way through the game in hopes of obtaining some elusive goal that is never as sweet as you dream it to be when you get it.

I hit lvl 80 today on my DK and I'm having a lot of fun. End game is a lot different than leveling up, because instead of my focus being on leveling, it is on doing dungeons and PvP, leveling up professions (yuck), and being more involved in the community.

My first day as 80 and I already helped guildies free Thrall in CoT, complete a few instances, including a Heroic, killed many Horde taking away Wintergrasp, and have a couple upgrades in my gear/weapon to show for it.

A lot has to do with your perspective. If you are approaching the game in a boring manner, the game will be boring. That brings us back to "grinding" the game, instead of "playing" the game.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by PnHobbit

You introduced yourself to the game's players by complaining about bugs, and you wonder why your reception was less than friendly. Wow, it's too bad everyone isn't as objective as you.

Heh, I was thinking along the same lines.

Also kinda wierd that he seems to have kept looking for reasons to be turned off to it.

"I found bugs... but maybe I could look past them if the players were sympathetic to my aggravation about them..."

Why do players have to be sympathetic to someone's personal feelings toward the game in order for them to play it? Are you looking to meet people so you can group up, hang out and have fun, or are you looking for a support group?

In my time playing it, I found those I talked to to be very friendly and even helpful. I was extended more than one guild invitation once I'd left the starting island. But then again, I didn't attempt to endear myself to the community by complaining about bugs with expectation they'd be sympathetic with my plight. So... might be a connection there.

 

 

This is a typical response by VG players. A person criticizes a game, and you criticize the new player. We're both consumers, and their the company. We should be thinking alike on this matter, not fighting. It boggles my mind that people will defend an inferior product when confronted on it.

Different people have different ways of responding to the same situation. You look for sympathy and support and "solidarity" when complaining about bugs. Others probably couldn't care less. And still others, perhaps, are more annoyed by the complaining than they are by the bugs you're complaining about.

People are different with minds and attitudes of their own. You can't categorically place them in neat little boxes when they don't respond the way you'd like them to. If you approach a situation expecting a specific response, plan to be disappointed.

That's life.

I didn't go in the game looking for the bad. Why the hell would I pay to do that? No, I went in the game to play it and have fun. I am a community oriented person, and love to group up, and chat. However, while I'm having fun and chatting I come across some obvious bugs and then I mention them on chat, I shouldn't get slammed for it, people should acknowledge them to the player, so the player isn't thinking he's the only person who notices the game is buggy.

So again, you're placing your own expectations on other people who don't know you from Adam... and then damning them and the game when they don't respond the way you'd like.

Know what I'd have done in your shoes? Ignored those that were slamming me and proceeded to seek out those who weren't being jackasses.

But that's just me.

Why should a person want the community to sympathize with them concerning the current state of the game? Because it shows that the community cares enough about the game to want it to be fixed and polished.

Again.. you're projecting your own expectations on others and then holding them to them. "If they cared about the game more, they'd have responded the way I expected them to, by rallying behind me and being sympathetic"

Here's another angle...

It's fair to say a good number of the players who were reading your complaints have been playing the game for considerably longer than you and have invested substantially more time and money into it.

That considered... I'd say it's safe to say they demonstrably have a lot more vested interest in the game's success than someone who just started and is ready to take their toys and go home when a community of complete strangers doesn't rally behind him or react the way he thinks they should.

More to the point... Why do they owe you any sympathy? Why do they owe you any reaction at all?

Being fixed and polished ensures a good future for the game, so that the new person in the community doesn't feel like they are wasting their time playing the game. Why is it a waste of time to play a game that has problems and has a small community? Because SOE has shown that they will completely revamp the game into nothingless if it doesn't perform to their expectations.

... Do you think you're the only one who's aware of this? I hope it's not too damaging to your ego, but nothing you're saying here is exactly a revelation... People have been begging SOE to become more active in developing and supporting the game since they took it over. Some have found SOE's progress to be good enough for them and so they continue playing. Some have found it to be not good enough and have moved on.

That you come to the game now, all these months later, and immediately assume this position of "knowing what's best for the game", expressing dismay that others don't rally behind you about it seems a bit presumptuous and arrogant.

So yes, I was looking for support from the community on my bad experience with the bugs in the game. It shows that I'm not alone in my viewpoints and that the game might have a future. People argue that every game has bugs, but no other game I've tried has bugs so obvious and long lasting that I've tried, and I've played almost every P2P game out there.

Why do you need others to validate your experiences in the game? Not enough confidence in your own judgement to make your own mind up and be satisfied at that?

You seem awfully needy.

Every game has bugs, but it's how the devs approach those bugs and how fast they fix them that show the community that they care. Even WoW has bugs, but they aren't easy to find and when you do find them, the devs fix them up. Quality is just as important as a long list of features. I think Vanguard is a beautiful game and a lot of fun. Hell, I was rooting for the game while it was in development. I couldn't contain my excitement, because that's how good the game sounded on paper. After playing it, the game delivers on what I expected, but the problems the game has stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe it doesn't bother the VG community, but it bothers me.

Ugh... let me know when the sermon's over so I can start reading again...

Now please, don't argue my viewpoint on this, because it won't change.

Well then, darn good thing I'm not trying to.

It's called a "debate"; a "disagreement", even.

I'm not trying to change your mind. I'm simply disagreeing.

If you want to tell mmorpg.com readers that VG is bugfree and performance is great, and the population is growing and superfriendly, then go right ahead.

I've never said that... and that's not even what this whole thing started off as.

If you're going to give these extended rebuttals, can you at least please stay on topic?

This is about you feeling let down because you started complaining about bugs in VG and other players didn't show their sympathy, and my belief that you're being irrational and perhaps a bit needy. That's *my* opinion.

I've stated my opinion for everyone to see and if they still wish to play the game, then fine, who am I to stop them. I just think it's fair that readers hear as many opinions as people care to give. Especially when the game has such a bad wrap.

Yes, because no one here would have ever known that the game has bugs if you didn't come along to enlighten them.

Some friendly advice.. and I won't get upset if you don't sympathize or agree with it...

Get over yourself.

 

 

You love to argue don't you. I already said I don't want to argue. I love to debate, but personal attacks turn debates into arguments. Your post is riddled with them. You're also condensending. But I'm glad Vanguard is so fun that you decided it's more fun to argue on mmorpg.com than to play it.

So since you're shooting yourself in the foot, I rest my case.

Originally posted by WSIMike

Originally posted by PnHobbit

You introduced yourself to the game's players by complaining about bugs, and you wonder why your reception was less than friendly. Wow, it's too bad everyone isn't as objective as you.

Heh, I was thinking along the same lines.

Also kinda wierd that he seems to have kept looking for reasons to be turned off to it.

"I found bugs... but maybe I could look past them if the players were sympathetic to my aggravation about them..."

Why do players have to be sympathetic to someone's personal feelings toward the game in order for them to play it? Are you looking to meet people so you can group up, hang out and have fun, or are you looking for a support group?

In my time playing it, I found those I talked to to be very friendly and even helpful. I was extended more than one guild invitation once I'd left the starting island. But then again, I didn't attempt to endear myself to the community by complaining about bugs with expectation they'd be sympathetic with my plight. So... might be a connection there.

 

This is a typical response by VG players. A person criticizes a game, and you criticize the new player. We're both consumers, and their the company. We should be thinking alike on this matter, not fighting. It boggles my mind that people will defend an inferior product when confronted on it.

I didn't go in the game looking for the bad. Why the hell would I pay to do that? No, I went in the game to play it and have fun. I am a community oriented person, and love to group up, and chat. However, while I'm having fun and chatting I come across some obvious bugs and then I mention them on chat, I shouldn't get slammed for it, people should acknowledge them to the player, so the player isn't thinking he's the only person who notices the game is buggy.

Why should a person want the community to sympathize with them concerning the current state of the game? Because it shows that the community cares enough about the game to want it to be fixed and polished. Being fixed and polished ensures a good future for the game, so that the new person in the community doesn't feel like they are wasting their time playing the game. Why is it a waste of time to play a game that has problems and has a small community? Because SOE has shown that they will completely revamp the game into nothingless if it doesn't perform to their expectations.

So yes, I was looking for support from the community on my bad experience with the bugs in the game. It shows that I'm not alone in my viewpoints and that the game might have a future. People argue that every game has bugs, but no other game I've tried has bugs so obvious and long lasting that I've tried, and I've played almost every P2P game out there.

Every game has bugs, but it's how the devs approach those bugs and how fast they fix them that show the community that they care. Even WoW has bugs, but they aren't easy to find and when you do find them, the devs fix them up. Quality is just as important as a long list of features. I think Vanguard is a beautiful game and a lot of fun. Hell, I was rooting for the game while it was in development. I couldn't contain my excitement, because that's how good the game sounded on paper. After playing it, the game delivers on what I expected, but the problems the game has stick out like a sore thumb. Maybe it doesn't bother the VG community, but it bothers me.

Now please, don't argue my viewpoint on this, because it won't change. If you want to tell mmorpg.com readers that VG is bugfree and performance is great, and the population is growing and superfriendly, then go right ahead. I've stated my opinion for everyone to see and if they still wish to play the game, then fine, who am I to stop them. I just think it's fair that readers hear as many opinions as people care to give. Especially when the game has such a bad wrap.

Originally posted by PnHobbit

You introduced yourself to the game's players by complaining about bugs, and you wonder why your reception was less than friendly. Wow, it's too bad everyone isn't as objective as you.

Do you work for SOE or something? If not, why are you so defensive of their game. You do realize it's not YOUR game, right? If anything, you should support a person complaining about bugs, because it's the right thing to do to demand quality from a product that requires you to pay every month for a service.

I am an objective person. For example, I play WoW right now and it's a lot of fun. But if a person was to come onto the WoW forums or go in the game and complain about how shallow WoW is or how Northrend has FPS issues, I'd agree. A person can be objective and critical at the same time.

I just came back, because I missed an old school type game. I was pleasantly surprised to find out I could play for free until Feb. 2009.

Last time I left, it was because the game had such a low population. After reading the forums here since then, I've read that the population is growing and that the bugs were fixed and the game was ready to be playable and should be rereleased.

I got through the trial island; the community was overall good, the game was fun, but there were some obvious bugs that still have not been fixed. I ran into a few bugs just on the island alone. I can handle some bugs in a game that's pretty fun, so I moved onto the mainland.

I was having fun, but was quickly getting aggravated at how unfriendly the game is to users. Then I encountered some more bugs that were painfully obvious that I knew the devs just ignored them. I complained about the bugs on chat to see if the community was sympathetic. At least if the community was sympathetic, I could play the game knowing we're all pushing for the game to be fixed.

Instead, people got really hostile and overly defensive of the game, like the game was their lively-hood or something. It was then that I figured I won't bother with this game anymore. The community was supposed to be the games strong point and I was banking on it to be able to look past some of VG's flaws. With VG players being so damned defensive over a product, I just uninstalled the game and won't be going back this time, no matter if there is another free trial going or not. I left last year around this time and decided that I liked the game enough to give it another shot after the trial island released. This was VG's last chance to leave a good impression, and while the game is fun, it just doesn't have the quality I look for in a game I have to pay for monthly and the community being defensive was the kicker.

* Played on Seradon*

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by levsix

WAR takes a few DAOC concepts and does them in "lite" mode.

War is a shallow PvP MMO for ages 5 and up. My 9 year old cousin plays it and is quite good and very routinely destroys people. I don't think that would have been possible in DAOC. I have a sub to WAR only because there were 60 day cards for 9 dollars on Amazon, but it is nothing more than a simple PvP experience. It could have been a lot better. It is mediocre but so is the majority of the MMO market at this point in time.

DAOC was an amazing game, and I wish they'd just revamp some of the mechanics and improve the graphics and launch DAOC 2. War is not even a shadow of DAOC and acting like it is some sort of spiritual successor is beyond laughable.

 

You know, I just canceled my sub to WAR today after renewing it a few days ago. You described the game remarkebly well actually. It's not that WAR isn't an entertaining or good game, but it's just as you described it. I don't think WAR has any depth to it, and I don't think the target audience even cares. It's just the way MMO's are these days.

Old MMO's like DAoC had depth. Sure it took work to get things; hell, I remember sitting on a horse for 10 min to travel to a place two zones away. We valued what we got though and the community was a lot better and closer. I've said this once and I'll say it again: If DAoC or EQ released a Classic, or new, server I'd go back to them in a heart beat. I have a modern expensive computer that can run DX10 games full blast, but I'd go back to the early 2000 games, because I want depth back into our MMORPG's. I like to work, as others put it, to get something in an MMO. MMO's, back when I started playing, were meant to be played year after year, not for 3 month spurts like MMO's are designed for now; not for E-Sports. I liked knowing that I still had more to do to advance my character a year from now.

I just think your post was spot on and describes the majority of modern day MMO's now. In fact, I think I just realized that the only MMORPG with the depth I need is Vanguard. Has an old school feel and tight community, with modern day graphics.

So very true. WAR is a game; DAOC is a world and I do not think I have to explain the difference.

I wish Mythic would say something about Origins because I seriously would go back to DAOC in a second if they would release such a game/server type combination. heck, even thinking about DAOC makes me want to re-sub! :)

 

I wish they would give us some info as well. I'd go back too. I've never played EQ, but I'd pick up that game if they released a Classic server there too. I just really miss the older games, but cannot return to those older games due to their really smallish communities. I thought about going back to DAoC myself, but a quick check on their population on camelotherald.com cures me of that. 2kish players spread out over that many clusters is just too small, especially since I'm a group oriented player and would be starting from scratch, wanting to see all of the new content.

Instead, I resubbed to Vanguard. It's a new game with an old school feel. Definitely a world over game design. I'd day it has 2k players as well, but spread across less servers, and the difference is that VG players are mostly group oriented, so finding a group wouldn't be as hard as it would be in DAOC. Plus I really do like the look of Vanguard.

I play WOW as well, more for the content than anything else. I play Vaguard for the deeper gameplay and community. I really hope Darkfall comes to sweep me off my feet next year, but I have my doubts.

I know how you feel. Maybe I am just old school and wish for the "classic" DAOC back. Remember the days of logging on and finding a group and go to "________" dungeon and finding a spot to camp for X number of hours; the whole time praying you do not wipe.

The thing that holds me back isn't so much the population numbers (though I agree it is worrisome), but the fact that when you log-in now, nobody wants to go to dungeons and see the world. Everyone wants to go to instances (task dungeons) and grind coin/xp and then rinse and repeat. Sorry thats not how I like to play. I want the old school DAOC and go revisit the dungeons I miss. If I could find a guild that willing to do that and experience the game semi-old school, I would be back in a moment.

I think about those times where we got together in a group and camped areas on a daily basis. If the only thing holding you back is the fear that people are grinding instances, then maybe you should give it a go. Last time I played, which was within the last year, people were doing the old zone areas and dungeons, because Mythic greatly increased the xp gain from doing those areas due to people like you and I wishing for those times back.

Originally posted by templarga

Originally posted by JK-Kanosi

Originally posted by levsix

WAR takes a few DAOC concepts and does them in "lite" mode.

War is a shallow PvP MMO for ages 5 and up. My 9 year old cousin plays it and is quite good and very routinely destroys people. I don't think that would have been possible in DAOC. I have a sub to WAR only because there were 60 day cards for 9 dollars on Amazon, but it is nothing more than a simple PvP experience. It could have been a lot better. It is mediocre but so is the majority of the MMO market at this point in time.

DAOC was an amazing game, and I wish they'd just revamp some of the mechanics and improve the graphics and launch DAOC 2. War is not even a shadow of DAOC and acting like it is some sort of spiritual successor is beyond laughable.

 

You know, I just canceled my sub to WAR today after renewing it a few days ago. You described the game remarkebly well actually. It's not that WAR isn't an entertaining or good game, but it's just as you described it. I don't think WAR has any depth to it, and I don't think the target audience even cares. It's just the way MMO's are these days.

Old MMO's like DAoC had depth. Sure it took work to get things; hell, I remember sitting on a horse for 10 min to travel to a place two zones away. We valued what we got though and the community was a lot better and closer. I've said this once and I'll say it again: If DAoC or EQ released a Classic, or new, server I'd go back to them in a heart beat. I have a modern expensive computer that can run DX10 games full blast, but I'd go back to the early 2000 games, because I want depth back into our MMORPG's. I like to work, as others put it, to get something in an MMO. MMO's, back when I started playing, were meant to be played year after year, not for 3 month spurts like MMO's are designed for now; not for E-Sports. I liked knowing that I still had more to do to advance my character a year from now.

I just think your post was spot on and describes the majority of modern day MMO's now. In fact, I think I just realized that the only MMORPG with the depth I need is Vanguard. Has an old school feel and tight community, with modern day graphics.

So very true. WAR is a game; DAOC is a world and I do not think I have to explain the difference.

I wish Mythic would say something about Origins because I seriously would go back to DAOC in a second if they would release such a game/server type combination. heck, even thinking about DAOC makes me want to re-sub! :)

I wish they would give us some info as well. I'd go back too. I've never played EQ, but I'd pick up that game if they released a Classic server there too. I just really miss the older games, but cannot return to those older games due to their really smallish communities. I thought about going back to DAoC myself, but a quick check on their population on camelotherald.com cures me of that. 2kish players spread out over that many clusters is just too small, especially since I'm a group oriented player and would be starting from scratch, wanting to see all of the new content.

Instead, I resubbed to Vanguard. It's a new game with an old school feel. Definitely a world over game design. I'd day it has 2k players as well, but spread across less servers, and the difference is that VG players are mostly group oriented, so finding a group wouldn't be as hard as it would be in DAOC. Plus I really do like the look of Vanguard.

I play WOW as well, more for the content than anything else. I play Vaguard for the deeper gameplay and community. I really hope Darkfall comes to sweep me off my feet next year, but I have my doubts.

Originally posted by Raizeen

most f2p games stay in open beta for forever or at least a long time

Then I'll wait until after they fix these problems. I also want to wait until they put in all the classes. Do you know if they are planning any character wipes, because I don't want to lose the work I put into my character.

Thanks