Sandbox is dead.  The hybrid is the future.

Of course, one person's idea of sandbox likely varies from that of another.

D3

Originally posted by fenistil

Cause Diablo is not more of an MMO than for example Call of Duty is.

Don't know how anyone could say this with a straight face, but I'm not going to try and convince you.  That's a waste of our time.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Suraknar

 

Because adding multiplayer function to KOTOR does not make it an MMORPG.

It is posts like this that always confuses me.

Why do you think your personal definition of 'what an MMORPG is' is the only one?

Absolutely agreed. 

As far a I am concerned a mmo is any game you're playing with a ton of other players, and that doesn't mean forced grouping either. There is absolutely nothing wrong playing primarily solo in a mmo if you so choose. There's nothing wrong with a preference for 5-10 man groups, and heck there's nothing wrong with raids either. It's when one of those groups make the others suffer that there's a problem, ala raiding and gear gating.

Even though D2 (and soon to be D3) is technically not a mmo, I've always considered it more "massive" in terms of players than any mmo.  D3 is going to be even more massive as there are very few servers to support a larger market for the RMAH.  Compared to a mmo that shards people up into roughly 30k groups (or shards of shards like SWTOR or STO), a Diablo game feels like I'm playing in a much more robust mutliplayer environment despite the fact that it does not have an open world.

Bottom line, if a person thinks they absolutely know what a mmo is, odds are they don't know much about mmos.  Because anyone who actually does know a lot about mmos knows that they can be very different, and that is not a bad thing.

Originally posted by travamars

Most of the people here with 1000's of post aren't actually gamers. They do buy games and play games but only enough so that they can come to this forum and complain or give some super logic of why the game works. They spend more time on this forum than in any game. People do still still play and like games, just not most of the people on this forum.

I don't think this is remotely close to true.  What I've noticed is that most posters here are "old school" gamers.  They played EQ, DAOC, SWG, etc.  MMOs were different back then, much more engaging and much more community oriented.  Most forum posters have likely tried WOW and found it not to their tastes over time.  So now, they come here to discuss mmos in the hope that someday another mmo worth playing is released.  The moment that happens, they'll be spending much more time playing their mmo than posting on the forums.

At least that's what happens with me.

As with most things in life, a middle ground is usually the best option.  Most reasonable people understand that removing quests is unnecessary.  However, quests today are equivalent to grinding, and diminish the entire idea of a quest.  So, use something like SWG's mission terminals for grinding quests (kill 10 boards for 10gold), and make quests truly quests again.  They should be long and adventurous with a good storyline behind them.

When quests actually become quests again, people will care about the story and become more immersed in the game.

Originally posted by PukeBucket

A smiley? Should've ended with /nohomo

Regardless, top PC games are all player vs player games. All MMOs that make it tout it as a major feature.

PvE only MMOs fizzle out pretty quick. 

So, you're wrong. No smiley needed.

What exactly are you smoking?  The biggest mmo by FAR is clearly a PVE-focused game (WOW).  Name one PVP-focused game that has more than 1% of the market.

Don't get me wrong.  I like PVP in the right forms.  I'm just pointing out that your statement is really off the mark.

lol great article.  that really helped me let of some steam by laughing.  :)  But seriously, devs spending time on a mmo "romantic companion".  That's a serious turnoff to the game for me.  Just such a waste of dev resources imo.

But, the game's not made just for me, so I'll shut my f***In' retarded mouth!  :P

Originally posted by Grand_Nagus

Just a clarification: Cryptic's deal is with CBS, not Paramount. Back in 2006 the Star Trek IP was divided between CBS(the TV series) and Paramount(the movies). So CBS is the one that is involved with STO.

Thank you for clarifying.

Originally posted by Aori

I finally figured out a way to fix this dispute. Game companys need to institude a new ban policy, if you can't meet the hour requirements for each month you are banned. So in order to keep your account active you have to play a minimum of 160 hours a month. While they're at it they'll have to remove the warnings of playing to long and to not go outside or spend time with your family or friends.

Next problem.. legalizing hacking so the bots can play 160 hours a month instead of the player.

Or people could simply accept the fact that there are varying ways to "get ahead" in the game.

Originally posted by Illyssia

I guess you could say that just like college you may have to take out a loan to get everything you want out of a cash auction house-based game.

Really, just give up the college example.  :)  If you bought your degree, you'll be found out and fired.  If you buy Diablo gear no one will ever care.  Comparing apples and donkeys here.

Because they're sociopaths.  No other explanation is needed.

Originally posted by Disdena

Originally posted by Vercinorix

I had to think about this one for a while.

I thoroughly agree that people play games that are fun for them. People stop playing games when they are no longer fun.

Difference between new MMO gamers and ones that are MMO veterans? The veterans have stopped playing one or more MMOs because they are no longer fun. Those veterans want something different, yet many of the veterans have a laundry list of favorite features that they consider 'must haves' in any new MMO game that they would play long term. So what the vets want is really a mix of the old and the new. But the mix of the 'old' that the vets want isn't all the same thing, and often are contradictory.

...snip...

A truly phenomenal and well thought-out post. But, sadly, since you sympathized with game developers rather than mercilessly vilifying them, not a soul on this forum is going to take what you've said seriously. :/

Well, I take what he says seriously.  But for all the different "must-haves" that the vets want, everyone knows they won't get a game personally tailored to their playstyle.  In other words, reasonable people realize that they will have to give a little on their expectations.  I think vets do this, even if they're vocal in their mmo desires.

As for villifying devs, I don't think I need to defend that much.  The proof is in the pudding, and the last five years of pudding simply suck.  The sub numbers prove this as much as anything.

In my book, the solution is the fight for resources.  Open pvp is fine, as was shown in wow pvp servers.  Full-loot pvp might as well just be called gank pvp and nobody but the gankers want to play that crap.  So if open world doesn't provide the incentive, then you have to create an open pvp environment that actually gives real incentive.  Resources can give that incentive. 

To each their own, but if I wanted realistic, I'd step outside.  Perhaps I'm in the minority, but I like those darn elves and dwarves and pixies and shit.  I also liked SWG's futuristic setting.  I'm open to just about anything that isn't realistic.  :)

Originally posted by zethcarn

I'm surprised it got it's own forum considering it's not an MMO.  But whatever...can't wait for this game!

I've found D2 to have better replayability than most true mmos released today, and it's 10+ years old.  Since replayability is a staple of mmos to me, I find D2 more of a mmo than most true mmos.

A well deserved forum.

Originally posted by skoupidi

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by precious328

The ultimate problem is that "weeked warriors" will be able to hang with players who spent far more time due to the option to purchase items.

How pathetic.  Never forget that time is just as unbalancing as money.  Whether you play 40 hours a week or spend a hundred bucks a week, either action is just as inbalancing to the player who plays 15 hours a week.  Until the day that everyone is forced to play for the exact same time, any anti-rmt arguments are meaningless.

Get your facts straight.Ofcourse the guy that plays more will have more items and more game experience than you. So, you are saying that a student that studies 15 hours a week should have the benefit to buy his degree, because the other student that studies 70 hours a week got it too.

It doesn't even matter in the end.If you can only play 15 hours a week then you wont be able to compete with the hardcore gamers anyway.No matter how much you money spend on RMT.Its just a way for the companies to make more money of you. You are free to spend it,noone forces you not to.

I hate to break it to you, but progressing in Diablo is not the same as getting a college degree.  Next time pick a better analogy, one actually applicable to the context.

Originally posted by precious328

Originally posted by zaxxon23

Originally posted by precious328

The ultimate problem is that "weeked warriors" will be able to hang with players who spent far more time due to the option to purchase items.

How pathetic.  Never forget that time is just as unbalancing as money.  Whether you play 40 hours a week or spend a hundred bucks a week, either action is just as inbalancing to the player who plays 15 hours a week.  Until the day that everyone is forced to play for the exact same time, any anti-rmt arguments are meaningless.

 

Whatever you say, Karl Marx.

What's pathetic here is the fact that some people (you) accept these cash shops / cash auctions.

Example: I'm playing Diablo 3. I have the best Executioner's Sword. I find another. People offer me a ton of items for trade. I'm not interested. I only want $50.00.

 

Not only does this system  favor the weekend warrior, but it hinders the in-game economy.

You're not thinking this through.  If you want to sell an item, you want the biggest audience.  Where will the biggest audience be?  Think about it.........the GOLD auction house, NOT the rmah.  So you will likely make more money by selling your sword on the gold auction house and then selling the currency on the rmah.

There goes your whole little hindering the in-game economy theory....

Originally posted by Torqia

I think for most of you to understand the reason for this Real money model, you would have to try and play diablo 2 today. I still do and i tell you the spam from item selling sites is unbelivable.. you cant see the screen for bots spamming.

its hard to talk (as in writing) to people cus of the massive flods of text from up to 7 bots at a time. If this trend were to continue into diablo 3, the game would die in a heartbeat and blizzard knows this. So if they didnt remove the basis of there operation (being real monney trading). what was to stop them.....

Nothing. 

So even though i dont belive in buying the items as it fundamentaly removes the reason to play the game. Im truely glad they did make this model. 

Funny thing is. Its gonna feel exactly like cheeting. Its fun for 5 min then you uninstall the game. nothing left to do. killed it all with ease and then you move on. 

Its the journey thats fun.. the hoping to find the items.. the thrill of actualy getting them. Not freaking buying them. thats just boring.

My 2 cents.

(edit. Spel lik krap)

Have you every actually played "end-game" d2?  Have you ever actually found all the items you want/need?  It's next to impossible unless you are lucky beyond belief.  A Diablo game is not wow.  You don't finish a raid and complete your set.  You hunt for items, and will likely never find many that you want.  When you buy an item in a Diablo game, you aren't even close to finished, and the best part about the rmah is that even if you were to spend enough money (and it would be tons of cash) to "complete" your character, you'd still have a reason to play.  To find more items and sell them.

Originally posted by Adamantine

Its no "trap".

Its only natural that a game that is supposed to be played for years needs to have a ***load of things to do.

Ah, nice to see someone who gets it.