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All Posts by Kain_Dale

All Posts by Kain_Dale

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214 posts found
HD Asheron's Call will rule!
Item mall? Im out.

Op's hype rating : 100

I have not seen any game that meets your expectation all these years.  This game will most likely fail.. You have to expect the unexpect.  Average game length to entertain you is 2-4 months within its content out on launch.  I have not meet any games that I haven't been to every content since Asheron's Call in 1999. Took me 7 years to play that game and still havent been to every content!

I have been playing tons and tons of mmorpg since Asheron's Call in 1999.  The way I see how they evolve from old generation to current generation. I'm going to Compare Asheron's Call and Final Fantasy XIV in those many categories.  English is not my first language so please excuse that.  I'm just comparing how games evolve and development into those 10+ years span.


AC:  1. Ton of things to do that you want to do from Level 1 and it doesn't restrict you.  Basically just lay down every options to you to choose.

2. Work on whatever skill/stats you want from beginning

3. Any kind of weapon on same character/job.

FF: 1.  You are forced to do storyline, class quest in order to get to end game content.

2. You have to pick a class and play it with only 1 type of weapon.

Pace of Leveling:

AC: 1. It has 275 levels and its pretty much accurate pace way to development your character.  You level up off by party in dungeons fighting mobs.

FF: 1. 50 levels Its pretty accurate way to development your character with doing fates/quests exp.

Content Wise:

AC: 1. The world is big to travel where ever you please there is no zones, only portals to dungeon/different locations. It takes u long time to walk across and the invisible wall doesn't block you.  You can even climb on mountain or fall down and die.(part of choice category)

2. Playing for 7 years and still haven't been to every content that the game has to offer!(that's what kept me going all these years)

FF: 1. You have to zone into different areas. There is also ton of invisible walls and such.(part of choice category)

2. Played about 4-5 months and been to every content that the game has to offer.

Quest Design:

AC: 1. You have to do dungeon crawl, figure out puzzles in dungeon, fight off dungeon boss.  It may takes you awhile to figure it out.  Finally, then to obtain whatever you need to complete the quest for item reward.  Awesome feeling after accomplish!

FF: 1.  You have to go kill x amount of y to get exp for reward.  Some does require you go dungeon to kill final boss for it.  But doesn't really feel rewarding somehow.

Combat System:

AC: 1. AC has best combat system I ever played in every mmorpg games.  Its just amazing.. I can't believe there is no another game like this.  You can even dodge arrows, war magics jump on buildings to fight and such!  This is 1 of 2 key features to make this game fun!  You use healing kits to heal yourself up!  Any class can do this.

FF: 1. Its ok.  You gets to fight the game's Mechanic not the game itself.  Not every class can heal themself or has cool down timer.

Party System:

AC: 1. You can party with and go in dungeon and kill off monster and don't have to be together to kill.  Or you can go in alone!  You can even still earn exp within same dungeon anywhere!  The loot drops is even by mob in dungeons- no boss unless for quest item.

FF: 1. You can't even do dungeon without having party.  Yes, I understand this game is based on group party but still.

Graphic Wise:

AC: 1. The graphic is poor.   However, the gameplay makes it so much fun and you really can't recognize the graphic-wise.

FF: 1. The graphic is amazing and nice!  I can't imagine if AC has this kind of graphic.

Housing System:

AC: 1.  You can go venture through land and find your dwelling to purchase.  Other folks can walk by and see your dwelling in the wilderness! You can even jump on your roof. The chest access is pretty much the same, storage chest and such.  You can even decorate.

FF: 1. You can purchase the dwelling but have to be in Free Company to do that.  You can decorate it.

Character Creation:

AC: 1. The Creation options is nice you can choose by race/gender and stats to start out with.  Also, you can choose a town/location to start as well.

FF: 1.You have to go to certain City by class that you started out.  The character creation is nice.  Allot of options!

Crafting System:  

AC: 1.You get to make elemental arrows, Ex: fire arrows, unlock door with keys, Cooking to make potions. Embeds mats into your suits/weapons to be stronger and such up to 10 times per gear slot.  You can salvage items into mats. Not too tedious.

FF: 1. The crafting is nice and allot of options to craft.  Allot of crafting class to level up.  Melds materia into suit but only limits you to 4 times per gear slot.  You can convert gears into materia after you spirit bond them.Quite tedious to level them all up.

Skill/Stats System:

AC: 1.  This is 1 of 2 keys features to succession for AC.  You can be axer, swords, or mage on same character.  You can switch them without any cool down while combat.  You can put points into whatever you want.  You wanna work on life, go ahead, u wanna work on magic, go ahead!  You also get to learn spells when you have enough points in that category to cast it.  You can even build jumping skill, run speed!!  You don't even need mount to travel if your run speed is high enough!

FF: 1.  Not much.. you unlock the skills when level up.  You have 30 points and its pretty common sense where to put them into. So not really any choice.  Yes there is cross skill but still. 

Alliance/Guild System:

AC: 1.  They have ranking depends on how many followers u have under you depends on how wide and under them.  You can even pass up some experince while u are leveling!  So its nice to log in and you see u get some experince point created by your followers.  So you can use those points into skills.

FF: 1. There is only Free Company Guild.  Its basically mainly for doing end game content, that's all.  Nothing special...  Umm.. I dunno what else to say about this.

Loot System:

AC: 1.  There is no "camp" on special boss for certain loot.  You can just kill mob and they all drop equally in dungeon.

FF: 1. Have to kill boss for good drops and you may have to run again and again to see if you get the drops.  Going through dungeons and open chest and try luck to roll to see if you can win the gear.


Conclusion:  I'm just only expressing my visual, opinion, and experiences with MMORPG Genre.  Of course they are not based off those 2 games.  I like final fantasy, I have  been playing since FF1 on nes.  I really like FF6 and FF12 more than all other series.  However, I don't think the motivation will last much longer for me to play ff14.   I think choices is main problem nowadays for MMORPG games.  And yes Asheron's Call is my favorite MMORPG of all times is because of wide amount of choices.  Especially with skill/stats development, combat system, content, and party system.

Off Topic: I saw ff15 preview on youtube. I don't know if I will like ff15 and afterwards because its too modern and choices are lacking?

Sorry for long wall of text- Thanks for reading.

In general of all mmorpg games:  Quest Design and Combat System.
Originally posted by nariusseldon

To me, it is about a) a diverse set of abilities, b) interesting choices & syneries, and c) action.

pretty much covered into skill system.  

Originally posted by Zorgo



title says it all.
Originally posted by newchemicals

Combat is just one factor that makes the overall game fun. I do agree that poor combat design can ruin an otherwise great game.

Memo to MMO game designers, can we skip the kill 10 of X missions, Take X to NPC A over in Zone B and no more escort NPC A with bad pathing AI through huge dungeon?  I agree with losing the ! symbol over NPC heads, it just breaks with the ambiance or at least give us the option to turn it off.

Skill customization is a tough one, I don't like the new trend of dumbing the game down to prevent people from gimping themselves. While infinite respecs could be one solution, other players might complain that takes away from choices having consequences.

Certainly a good topic.


Yeah, I agree that repettive quest or kill x for y exp quest is just lame and don't feel rewarding at all.

I am former Asheron's Call player.  Its best game ever however its allot of grindfest, awesome quests setup.  The graphic is outdated.  The community is small right now.  The game is 13-14 years old.  Personally, I don't like Asheron's Call 2 for some reason.
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Kain_Dale

Combat, Lore, skill customization, Quest design, and Movement Speed is top 5 parts to make MMORPG game.  Things to mention:  User Interface, graphic, community.

 Movement speed in the top 5?

Yes,  would u like to waste 5 minutes to just run across 1 zone because its too slow?  Maybe they are waiting for u.  Time is everything.

WTF?!?!?! NO!!!!!
General Discussion « TERA
1/10/13 4:15:30 AM

Guess there is a new method for making new games: Game box with cd to sell for 60 bucks... then 1 year later make it go free 2 play with cash shop for more money.  

Company still thinks greed > fun which is really sad.

Originally posted by stayontarget
The harder the content the better the drops.

Yes,  Thats what I mean as for no boss in dungeon.  Needs to be variety monster and loot tier for monster's level.

- I love cool costumes if the game has some sort of collection book MUCH better (like Atlantica online)

- quest is not an issue (coz I hate grindfest type of game like ragnarok it bore me a lot)

- I like hybrid type of classes like healer/attacker (just like cabal)

- OPEN WORLD (coz I hate games like Dragon Nest or Grand Chase)


Till cabal havent "clean" their servers I'll be taking my hands of it for a while, cant even imaging their "skill renewal thing"

also, I'm waiting if there will be Ragnarok 2 NA in the future.

Granado Espada has TON of costume and over 100 character to recruit and play with. Each character has different type of skill.  Like fighter, mage, healer.  It also have 1 of best graphic for free mmorpg genre.  It has MCC(Multi character control) that you can control 3 character at once.  Also, it doesn't require allot investment with your real money to advance into end-game.  You can obtain anything in that game without spending money, its just matter of time and farming.  If you do not like grindfest,  this game has "afk system" that will kill and the pet will loot for you. It is open world that you can explore many different areas to explore.  I think this would fit your preference very well!  

Here is link to Granado Espada:

Another thing to mention is Final fantasy 14: A realm reborn is going to launch probably late march or mid-summer.

Originally posted by keenber

Well to me there is only one thing that matters in a MMORPGs and thats is communities.

As for quests and combat and runspeed(really) they dont have any place in any MMORPG top 10 nevery mind top 5

If combat,quests and runspeed meen that much to you then i think you need to start playing a single player game and leave MMORPGs to players that like to use team work and skill rather than zerg tactics to beat every encounter.

I cant blame you for thinking that way as that is the way that near all MMORPGs have been played for the past 10 years or so but i rember before them days when the guys you played with is what made the game great.

How can it be good community if the game isn't fun or successful?  So it means other things matters more than community cuz thats how it affects it?

This is about methods to get loots.  

Method 1:

Boss farming:  You camp, or know timer to kill them over and over.  This way people will have to fight for it which is plainly stupid, IMO. This is probably why they set up instanced dungeons.

To solve this:  Boss don't drop best loot, only quest item or what not.

Method 2:

No Boss in dungeon: Every mob has fair chance to drop any loots.  Which allow you party up with other people and go your way in dungeon to kill and earn exp at the same time.  Don't have to worry about someone camp your stuff or steal your loot that you need.

Method 3:

Raids:  Well this has pro and cons and depends on what reward.

Like for an example, getting best loot out of raids then it will make other content empty, aka ghost town Because, then they want to go for best stuff cuz other area is waste of time.  Also trying to find members for raid can take allot of time and can be hassle.

Other kind of raids is going on hard quest to complete quest for good reward or to obtain items to proceed your main storyline.  But doesn't drop best loot which will keep other content alive as well.

I'm sure there is more but of course this is open to discussion.  You decide. :)



Combat, Lore, skill customization, Quest design, and Movement Speed is top 5 parts to make MMORPG game.  Things to mention:  User Interface, graphic, community.


Combat: If the combat is dull, boring, easy.   you will not last long.  It needs to be fun.. like u can dodge war magic or arrow attacks or you can try run for your life.  That will give u some adrenaline which keeps your interest going.  That's what makes it fun and feels more challenging than just push 1,2,3 brainless.

Lore:  Needs to be interesting and creative, not typical standard mmorpg lore nowadays.  You want to be part of lore to help them out.

Skill Customization:  This is really important.. It needs to be fun set-up upon people's preference that really works good.  Not a cookie cutter at end of game.  I think no class system is best because it gives you choice from beginning and u can start working from there to end.  Like when you kill monster for exp, you can use the exp to gain your skill.

Quest design:  There is 2 different kind of Quest design.  One is repeative kill task for exp.  Second is going on adventure into dungeon crawl and try to find your way through to your objective, or to kill boss, to obtain/complete it to get nice item with no exp reward.  The first quest design can feel tendious and grind which will lead to boring easily.  You need to feel that you did good job and work hard for the reward which makes it fun.  Also,  The quest icon button above NPC is somewhat ok and somewhat not.  Why?  Well,  Its not realistic to see people with ! button above them, but its nice for those people that don't know what to do or go.  I think doesn't matter that much as long you don't have to look for "accept" button without reading at all and hold hand to guide u to complete.

Movement Speed:  I notice allot mmorpg game has slow or standard same movement speed which isn't fun.  Would it be fun if u wanna work on ur run skill or jump skill?  Like I said on Skill Customization,  you earn exp u can do what u want to do with exp to gain your skill, Run, Jump, Sword etc.  Then the mount wouldn't be necessary.


User Interface: It needs to be quick to get it done without going through many steps to complete for small thing.

Graphic:  Its a plus but it wouldn't really matter that much if the top 5 outperforms your thinking about it.

Community:  Seeing no one around cuz they all are at end game content can discourage you.  No one to play with, talk to, go on quest together and such.  Ghost town is not good.  Need to figure out how to keep all town populated somehow at any time.  But not just "standing" in town or setting up your shop.

Originally posted by Alberel
Originally posted by Epic1oots
Never liked retainers. Never had problems with how FFXI was. Shoulda kepted it like that.

That was another of Tanaka's changes for the sake of trying to be different. I believe Yoshi is trying to make it into a hybrid system that allows for both. If it functions like in EQ2 then essentially you can buy good directly off the AH and pay a small comission on top of the item cost, or else you can find the location of the retainer and buy from them directly (which takes a little longer).

Personally I always loved that system as it made a good extra gold sink and made it harder for people to play the market (as buying low involved a time consuming process of locating individual sellers).

I don't actually know if it'll work like that though...

there is way to overcome this... you would have 3 alt, 1 sitting at each city's retainer place to buy if needed.  Then grab it, put on alt's retainer and set it to high price to hold for ur main to come.

Originally posted by Yaevindusk


As odd as it may sound, I think you will be better off starting on a server that has Max level characters already on it.

Yoshi-P is already reducing everyone's gil by 90% (If you had 10,000,000 gil, you will have 1,000,000), in addition to lowering NPC prices on mats by 90% to match (not counting how much easier it would be for people to gather their own stuff by comparison to 1.0).

Taking that into account, the economy needs to basically start from scratch whether it's an old or new server, with the only difference being that you will have a large influx of every item imaginable at the start on the Auction House (with existing servers).  These items will likely be INCREDIBLY cheap for new players, in addition to there being veterans who are known to being very generous to new players in giving free stuff glore (on the server I was on, at least).

On a new server, items will be very rare as people either just focus on crafts that will take a decent time to level, or just worry about playing the game without level appropriate gear.  The items that do show up on the market are likely to be controlled by those who just focus on crafts at the beginning, who have little competition in a market with large demand (as no one has these items or the ability to craft them).

All in all, the economy will be in a dire state at start by comparison, and quite possibly  be in the same spot as existing servers one month after the game launches (though still highly likely that prices will be high in cost).  If you aren't one of the few who took crafting, you're at the bottom of the barrel, and if you are, you just wasted a month of your time and the server is essentially packed with crafters, the same as an existing one.  In addition, materials will also cost more to level crafting for these new servers as well, so you'll pay more there as well.

My advice would be joining an old server, making a few friends on the forums who might help you, and or making friends early in the game in which to help you level crafts and give you items 1-50 for basically free.


Thats the issue, I want to work for it not getting it for free. Whats the fun in that? So new server still my best option.

Which one would u rather to play?  Of course there is Pros and Cons on each side.  I can't list em all but I'm just gonna list the common general things.


Free MMORPG with Item malls:

1. free to play but not for long until u hit the wall then it will give u 2 choice... quit or bring out ur wallet

2. very expensive to compete with other people - Endless spending (So much for free. We are basically spending against each other and the company earns for that, Ironic eh?)

3. Graphic can be bad or average

4. Limited Access


Monthly Subscription games:

1. Fair competetion

2. Graphic normally are good

3. Cheaper and limited to spend

4. Full access


Nowadays company starting to make free-mmoprgs with item mall because they make more $$ out of it than subscription games.  There is no passion, love, fun like old classic mmorpgs like UO, Asheron's Call, Everquest or what not.  Its ruined by greed.

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