Originally posted by BaronJuJu

Originally posted by Torak

Wow, you are a contender for asshat!

Gratz

 

I see you found one of the "civilised discussions".

Well it did look rather official

Do you get a forum title with that?

Originally posted by BaronJuJu

 

Civilised discussions? LOL, hardly. Everyone that doesn't agree with you are shills, asshats, trolls, etc.Hell, you all stalk this site to keep tallies on what was said. Your mouths and site speaks for itself. 

I do agree with you though that everyone should go out to your site and see these "Civilised discussions" appearing all over. Read the posts, read the chat and let them decide for themselves how civilised you really are.

 

Wow, you are a contender for asshat!

Gratz

I guess I just don't understand why people are here on MMORPG.com crying to play pre-NGE when they can (without getting specific) 

If you love pre-NGE, go away and troll the pre-NGE forum site and post about how magical it is and how grateful you are to have it back and give them lots of helpful feedback.

Geez, haven't you people expended enough negative brain power on this subject in the last 4 years? You got what you wanted so go there. Or is the only thing left in you people is your ability to endlessly b*tch?

You guys don't care about playing pre-NGE SWG, all you care about is posting this anti-SOE / SWG crap. If you did, you would have abandon this sh*t as soon as the situation changed. WTF do you guys care about this version of SWG for? Shoo

It's hard to categorize an entire community but IMHO the worse communities are the one where the game itself is full of controversy.

It pull a lot of the players out of the game and into arguments about the state of the game, what games are better, what games they want to go to and creates an atmosphere of dislike for the game by the people playing it. The worst communities I have seen where people were burst blood vessels over it daily where games like Vanguard, Warhammer, Age of Conan.

Games where people seemed to just log on to bash the game.

Originally posted by Raltar

http://pc.ign.com/dor/objects/14270158/star-trek-online/videos/startrekonline_trl_starshiptacticspt2_111909.html

30 second into that video it says this:

"Respurceful Captains will also be able to recognize and utilize the different classes of starships. Cruisers as tanks, science vessles as support and escorts for lighting strikes."

And now we know. In the mind of a Cryptic developer all MMOs must follow the trinity of TANK, SPELLCASTER, DPS. An original or flexable combat system is obviously beyond their skills.

Sad... just sad.

OMG!!!

Call out the MARINES!

Trivia - did you know in this thing called real life, ships have roles also?

Originally posted by Gabby-air

Since these forums are filled with negative posts i thought i would make a helpful thread for people interested in the game.

I've been playing the game since july and have played quite a bit, in my opinion this is target audience for the game:

--People that love wow but can't stand the community. Ok, fair enough

--People that love wow but need a new game very similar to it. ...if one "loved" a game why would they "need" a new one? WoW players don't play other MMOs. I think that is pretty apparent as demonstrated over the last 5 years.

--People that don't want to think too much about video games and play them to have fun, easy relaxing gameplay. Yeah and that is what is killing the MMO genre. The #1 complaint about new MMO's is their total lack of complexity. Easy doesn't equal fun, complexity doesn't make it not fun. In a nutshell - Challenge and reward is why people play games.

--Community oriented players, the community in general is fairly helpful and if you like to group or talk a lot this might be a good choice. Yay, BUT communities change over time. A game community is not a game feature.

--Casual players, in general if you only play an hour a day.Casual gaming is always a plus.

--People that like to be part of the world, many world changing events and EQ like achievements such as the first person to explore an area's name being displayed for everyone to see. Thats a very finite thing in an MMO where you literally have tens of thousands of people wandering around. They have "server first" logs in Vanguard. It takes all of a few weeks to fill them up then you sit and wait for new content. So one guy gets rewarded for stumbling into a zone...forever or being the first one to craft a pair of "ripped leather shoes"...then what?

--People that love dev interaction. Again this is not a feature and is something that can (and will) change over time.

 

Now for people that would absolutely hate this game:

--People that love flawless gameplay, so no crashes, bugs, lag, slow combat. And rightly so...I assume Alganon will want money from us to play their game so why would it be unfair to expect a working preduct / service?

--People that hate wow - and that is what happens with most new MMO's people log in and say "f^ck, this is just like WoW. The game dies a pretty quick death after that.

--People that want something new and innovative - again, why switch to it then?

--People that want new content fast, its an indie company so updating would be fairly slow - well that won't fit well with the server first thing.

--People that like a large player base - Thats kinda important in an MMO, wouldn't ya think?

--People that are used to AAA MMOs, you won't find next gen graphics or combat here.

 

I think that's a fairly non-biased list, but if you feel like adding something to any of them please say so.

 IMHO, this game is so gonna be such a non-event it's not even funny. I honestly don't know how/why D. Allen even bothered.

If he had the money, he should have remade his original vision of Horizons. This game is a total cop out on every level.

IMHO, no one really has a problem with constructive crit and suggestions but with this game in particular it's never really about improving the game, it's about going back in time to yesterday.

There is a place for you guys wishing for yesterday to go these days. Stop pestering the people who want to play this version. It takes like 2 minutes to hook yourself up to 2003.

Originally posted by Tycalibur

Originally posted by Torak

IMHO, one thing you guys do need to taking into consideration is the game that launches will not be representitive of the game it will be about 6 to 12 months out.

Don't pre-order or play an MMO at launch, you are setting yourself up for massive disappointment. It takes these games about a year to sort themselves out.

 

 

Since WHEN is it okay for the developers of ANY MMO to put out an incomplete game?  This is a mindset we need to move away from, people.

That's what we're arguing against here.  I'm not paying for an ongoing beta, and as far as I can tell, this game is far from finished yet.  The developers are putting it out now to rake in some further development cash (not one dime of which will go to quality content, it'll go to appeasing the existing playerbase who are determined to like it just because it's Star Trek, the ones who will be whining, very quickly, about how crappy and 'unbalanced' the combat system is).

 

Well that's what I'm talking about. The idiots who pre-order having no clue about the quality of the game because they either have the fanboi blinders on or just have marshmellows for brains. (and a few who are genuinely new to MMOs)

MMO's are notorious for poor launches but as long as people keep buying 800k - 1 mil boxes at launch (and then dropping off) nothing will change.

The only message you can send is with your wallet so if you fork out the cash before you even know or buy it before reviews are out...it just perpetuates the ugly cycle. Look at AION right now, already trying to patch the game with massive revamps and content additions and changes.

Only a gullible fool would pre-order any MMO or think the launch is going to a solid representation of the game.

The irony about your statement is the ones they will devote the resources too (balance and combat) are going to be the first ones to bail on the game and start the virtual hate crusade against the game. Before the first 30 days are up this forum will be filled with an endless stream of hate post...just like every other MMO to launch in the last 6 years.

This is how the game ends, not after the launch but before.

I would imagine survival would be it's own reward.

If you are talking about a worldwide Zombie takeover, shambling death is really around every corner. Over time maybe rebuilding to a point.

Remember, in true G. Romero-ism, other people would be just as much a threat if not more-so, then the Zombies themselves. It could be a very ugly world...

Hmmm well I was close

"Vigil Games is a division of THQ" www.vigilgames.com/

Yeah I understand that however... Warhammer fantasy has almost an equal amount of loyal mini players and it did squat for the MMO. Whatever the server issues were (and I played War for about 6 months) it didn't stop the bleed even after they "fixed" it. In fact they just consolidated 2 more servers this last week leaving them at 4(?) live servers. It was just the initial amount of servers that damaged the game but the game being far to derivative of everything else out there. I mean why play War when you can just play WoW? it's basically almost the same game but with a few a class twist and less of everything else.

Yeah dunno on the race thing, IMHO you are heading down the Warhammer fantasy path if you get into the faction thing. Orcs sided with Necrons or Dark Elves ext...sorry that would kill it. From a lore standpoint the Orcs have just as much reason to kill Humans as Dark Elves or Chaos Marines. Necrons want to purge the universe of the cancer of life ext....Just like the fantasy setting, chaos warriors happily slaughtered Orcs as well as Empire, Bretionians regularly skirmish with Wood Elves, Dwarves and High Elves have no real love for one another and will fight over relics. The Undead factions just want to over run everyone, Orcs can just as easily war with each other as outsiders. Empire and Dwarves are about as close to an alliance as you will find in Warhammer and that carried over to the 40k setting (until they dropped squats from 40k) Halflings and Orges were really nothing more then Empire subraces.

The issue is each race has almost 30 years of written lore behind them and if you alter it, you basically are throwing away the foundation of the setting. We saw what happened with Warhammer AoR...lesson learned.

A Rogue trader setting would be completely different however.

Originally posted by Chivalry1978

Originally posted by Torak

The problem with this "faction" crap I've read in a few of these replies is this.

In Warhammer...all Warhammer

Each race is a faction onto itself. They rarely band together and often fight one another. This lumping races into faction groups and assigning them roles ruins it from the get go.

Stop with the WoW style faction thinking, it already wrecked one Warhammer IP.

 

Actually your wrong on the wow aspect. GW has done this on many occasions. 13th black crusade seems to come to mind. When you have a story driven event or game then banding together into greater factions makes sense. Though I will agree each of the armies should be its own faction. You will find that it would be damn near impossible to get a decent raid going just out of your own faction.

 

 

Sure I understand the population balance issue that would show its ugly head. 

That being said, I would prefer to see 2 or 3 core races in the game that are fully fleshed out and self contained IF it's going to be PvP centric.

IMHO, our culture of MMO nomads in the western market make any kind of long term population based gameplay near impossible. No sooner does a game launch and within 60 - 90 days the servers are barren wastelands.

Within 12 months most games are at least on their first server consolidation no matter how hard they try to save the game. I guess the lesson is don't launch a unfinished game but at the same time, MMOers need to realize that it takes upwards of a year for a game to flesh out and they are always a work in progress.

I thought THQ was working on a 40K MMO?

www.gamespot.com/news/6166560.html

The problem with this "faction" crap I've read in a few of these replies is this.

In Warhammer...all Warhammer

Each race is a faction onto itself. They rarely band together and often fight one another. This lumping races into faction groups and assigning them roles ruins it from the get go.

Stop with the WoW style faction thinking, it already wrecked one Warhammer IP.

Well recently Jeff Strain (one of the original founders of Arenanet) announced that a Zombie MMO may be on the way. www.massively.com/2009/11/23/arenanet-co-founder-jeff-strain-opens-new-studio/

So, what are some of the things that you would think are essential to make this type of game work out?

A Zombie apocalypse would be a dark and gritty world of survival if it's going to follow the G. Romero style (at this point we don't know if it will).

Should the combat be similar to Left4Dead or more like WoW?

Should it be sandbox (I know I'm asking for trouble with that question) or more themepark?

Should crafting play a central role or loot? (or both?)

One thing that I feel is important when trying to create an atmosphere of undead doom is communication or lack there of. Global chat systems should be out. One of the critical elements of these dark visions of the future is the feeling of being cut off and alone.

So what do you think?

Originally posted by evilgreen5

 Yeah I know about the trial, I just want to know about why everyone bitches about the current state of the game.

There is no logical reason for it.

You post will get hit with some old vets wall of text pretty soon and you can sort out what they think.

Here is what happened.

SWG peaked at 300k subs and started to backslide, Lucas Arts pretty much demanded SOE make some drastic changes to make it more appealing and pull in more players and two years after launch, they revamped the core game mechanics totally changing the game. This made a lot of players at the time very unhappy and many have been on a virtual crusade over it for the last 5 years.

Today, it's a pretty good game. Give the trial a try. You pretty much do anything you want to do. Space Combat, build a house, run a shop, play PvE content, play PvP content, make your own content...

Some angry vet will probably counter my statement but remember to put IMHO after everything he writes.

There was no "sandbox fanboism or hate" back when these games "came out" they were the first of their kind...People were not thinking in those terms yet. There where only 3 MMO's at the time so there wasn't this "sandbox games vs themepark" thinking going on yet. That thinking didn't evolve for a couple of years.

Most of the were like "wow these are cool games"

We were much more forgiving in those days and were just interested in playing a good game and whined a LOT less about them.

The reason MMO's followed the EQ track? Well IMHO, it had to do with EQ beating the dog snot out of UO and the fact that EQ was based on P&P D&D game mechanics which a lot of RPGers can easily relate to. The 10 years of clones that followed are really a show of a lack of risk taking and creativity on the part of almost all of these games.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Cryptic and train wrecks seem to go hand in hand these days.

 

Dunno how you can say that.

They made CoH which even today is still one of the better MMO's out there.

Yeah Champions maybe wasn't so great but it is far from the likes of Vanguard, AoC and Warhammer at launch. I also questioned the wisdom of making a game that was essentually the same game as the last one they made but hell, it's not like there hasn't been an endless march of shit fantasy grinder clones over the last 10 years. I haven't actually tried Champions but I will once it's fleshed out a bit.

SWG - you can play an entertainer or a crafter.

Ryzom - You can be a Harvester / Crafter

Freerealms - like a dozen classes what are non-combat based.

EVE - you can just craft / play the markets

I'm not 100% on this but Pirates of the Burning Seas had a heavy market / crafting element a while back.

Fallen Earth is suppose to have a heavy crafting element to it. I wouldn't know first hand how it is working out as far as having to do the genocide against mindless mobs goes for that playstyle.

That's what rolls off the top of my head.

Originally posted by MMO_Doubter

Originally posted by Kaneth 

I'm like you, except I didn't have the flash. My first thought was, "They went there, ok", and I then proceeded to shoot the place up. It's a game, it's not real life. Games are there so we can do things that we normally wouldn't. I will never walk into an airport (or anyplace) and start to shoot people at random in real life, but I'll do it in games...numerous times.

 

My question is: WHY won't you do that in real life?

That's a stupid question, sorry ..not trying to flame you but that's nothing but antagonistic to Kaneth.

How about

Why DON"T you do it in real life. Your answer is probably the same one everyone else will give.

Because your not a blood thirsty murderer willing to butcher real innocent unarmed people in cold blood for an ideology. If you were it is very unlikely you would be playing video games.

Originally posted by Zorvan01

Originally posted by Dyner

HelloKitty Island is thatta way ---->

If I want morality....I'll go to church.

 

Nowadays, church is the LAST place to look for morality.

You got it Z .

Can't remember the last time a Deist, Atheist or Agnostic flew an airliner into a building, shot an abortion doctor, painted signs saying "God hates gays", massacred a bunch of unarmed comrades screaming "God is great", started a holy war or tried to commit genocide.

Religion is evil and there is nothing moral about it. It teaches hate and intolerance. (rant off)

Well kudos to MW2 for actually invoking emotions of the players. In the big picture this will help demostrate the potential of this form of entertainment. Whether you did it or not, killed or blew your cover, you had to take a minute and consider it.

Now as far as the "controversy" and how it applies to MMO's...well how about "not so much" I can count off on one hand the amount of "moral and or ethical" decisions I've had the opportunity to make in the 8 years of MMO game play I have endured.

Most MMO story lines boil down to "take the mission or leave it" and that is that. No true dialog trees no true impact on anything, kill your 10 rats and move on to the next farmer Bob. IMHO, that's not really a choice. It's the choice of "play the way we designed the game or log off".

Sandbox or themepark, there is virtually no dynamic impact whatso ever.

Now in regards to sandbox, that is slightly different. If the game has some type of open PvP you can be faced with all sorts of "moral & ethical" decisions but that is because of the game environment and how the players behave. EVE doesn't captivate it's cultist because it has a great story and great content, it's because you need to be on your toes and you can saw your mates head off at any time if you want. BUT IMHO you end up playing "Days of our Lives Online" in these type games with groups of players all trying one up each other day after day. The game itself never throws you a curveball, which is fine. All these types of game do is set down a playfield with some basic rules of engagement.

Everyone hopped into MW2 thinking "cool, time to kick some bad guy arse" and ended up in an awkward situation for a few minutes.

It's a shame that it's FPS games that are excelling at this type of thing more and more while MMO's which should be the leaders of the pack, stay the course and refuse to change at all.