Originally posted by Anolev

Yes I do.

The invested LOTS to build the game, they aren't just going to pull the plug less than 6 months after they've launched it.  I also think it's funny everybody says they're bleeding subs like crazy, when in fact they're still the 2nd biggest MMORPG ever launched, even after having bled all of those subs.  No other game has ever had 1M subs (except WoW) within 1 month of launch let alone 5, and SWTOR is still bigger than that.

I swear, it's like your Ferrari has a dent on the hood, so you're saying screw it, it's worthless now, let's drive it off of a cliff. 

Amazing.

subs dont matter to me much, players do.  SWTOR could be a decently fun game but it is no Ferrari of MMOs and it never will be.  Its more like a bus with no passengers.

i think the quote he used about not liking character advancement at all was even more telling than his i hate MMOs statement.  Even if you agree with the premise of the article that 'traditional' (read wow - clone since that seems to be what he means)  MMOs are over done, which I do, I hardly want this guys input as he dislikes the most fundementally important aspect of an MMO.

I realize its petty to feel this way, but I'm actually annoyed by them keeping my account active.  I had 5 days left on my sub, I already cancelled and listed my reasons once again.  I feel like 1.2 was a slap in the face, basically saying all the issues that are important to me aren't worth fixing ( or worse, beyond the developers skill to fix).  To have them artifically keep my account active as a "reward" feels like the devs are children sticking their fingers in their ears and shouting blah blah blah! at me to avoid actually dealing with the issues.

Originally posted by HTdebuglach

Originally posted by Jerek_

Originally posted by HTdebuglach

omg get over it, it is not like he told people his personal information, as a former member of GSF, all I have to say you all are pretty clueless about this game and carebears.

This doesnt have anything to do with EVE, or how cool you think the goons are, or anyone being carebears.  Its about a guy who represents the community acting like an ignorant douchebag. 

Or trolling everyone, hummm would Mittani do that...................................

is that not the same thing?

Originally posted by HTdebuglach

omg get over it, it is not like he told people his personal information, as a former member of GSF, all I have to say you all are pretty clueless about this game and carebears.

This doesnt have anything to do with EVE, or how cool you think the goons are, or anyone being carebears.  Its about a guy who represents the community acting like an ignorant douchebag. 

I am enjoying TOR, so I'll bite.  You should check out No Reservations, specificially the Chicago episodes.  You will see that McDonalds didn't kill quality hotdogs at all, they are in fact better than ever. 

The problem with your analogy is that you seem to assume that, without Mcdonalds, all those hamburger people would have been hotdog connisseurs-  they wouldn't have been.  UO and EQ were not going to have 10 million subscribers if only WoW hadnt happened, the market for those games was, and is, niche.  that means small market money- as in, no AAA graphics and sound and whatever.  Personally, I dont think thats a terrible thing, because I dont think you have to have big money or huge numbers of players to have a great mmorpg.

Originally posted by mikahr

Originally posted by Jerek_

I've been playing since tuesday and right now I'm in my first que.  Its the first weekend, I'm not really suprised its happened.  Still its been a great launch experience for me so far.

For you, yes, for 90% others no.

As I've always suspected, sucks to be 90% of people who aren't me.  Joking of course, but that is either a major exageration or Krayt Dragon is the greatest server ever, because everyone seems very happy so far.  People in general chat mentioned having to que to get on a few hours ago and most people thought they were joking.

I've been playing since tuesday and right now I'm in my first que.  Its the first weekend, I'm not really suprised its happened.  Still its been a great launch experience for me so far.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Creslin321

O

Your comment about PST actually made me think of something.

In PST, you had like TONS of dialog choices you could pick all the time. Sometimes up to like 10 responses to pick from at once!  It really allowed you to play the kind of character you wanted...and the choices often had a lot of depth. 

But in SWTOR (and other recent BW games) you have this dialog wheel that limits you to three choices.

It makes the gameplay faster and requires less reading, but I think it really constrains your options as a roleplayer.  The choices are often "good guy," "snarky guy," and "dick."  This is hardly deep. 

It makes we want for the old days of multiple dialog choices.

It boils down to the development required in offering those choices, in older games like PST the design was much simpler and didn't require the amount of work, time and/or finances to achieve. It's a trade off between production value and choice, todays gamer is a different beast, they prefer to see everything play out spectacularly rather than leave so much to the imagination.

Your above complaint doesn't only apply to TOR, it should apply to just about every RPG released in the last 10 years or so. As most have gone the route of cinematic quality, which lessens the amount of choices a game can offer as each choice requires the same amount of development time, which today includes a lot more than PST or games of it's ilk did.

I think having everything voiced is what really made this issue stand out.  When each line has to be voiced by 5 different people suddenly having 10 dialog options wasn't possible.  Having playable races that wouldn't speak basic in swtor is less likely as well.  I enjoy playing all bioware's games, but i think they really need to figure out ways to get player choice back into the games, especially swtor.  I had a blast in beta but for it to hold my attention long term i need more control over how my PC looks and acts.

Originally posted by Latronus

Originally posted by rojo6934

i may be stupid or something but.... how is this news even important when they only surveyed 381 gamers?  all i can say to this Bagga dude, go survey at least half of WoWs playerbase then post  ur numbers... Of course the competition will get players from WoW to play their games, plus the road Blizz is taking WoW to is not the best one.... i for one will play swtor, and i will switch subs between It and WoW because i like both... only 10% of WoW playerbase left WoW, nobody knows how many of those 10% will come back later on...and how many wont... and i sure as hell know that only 381 surveyed gamers wont give the correct answer to that.

So, now we know who hasn't taken statistics.  It's called a representative sample, you NEVER poll half of a demographic as large as a games subscribers, that's just a stupid waste of time and money.  Besides, if you take just North American players of 2 to 3 million (just a guess of current subs) 381 should be plenty.  You can't count the Asian "subs" that aren't subs.  Blizzard has always inflated their numbers with those. 

asking to poll half of the games subscribers might not be realistic but neither is playing with stats based on 'just a guess' ranging in the millions.  And 381 still seems like a pretty weak group especially when they are just online gamers.  They could be asking CoD players who don't even own a computer their opinion of WoW.  I'm not doubting that WoW is in decline or will be, just that the quality of the survey justifies the conclusion they reached.

381 'online gamers' and not even all of them were WoW subscribers at the time of the survey?  And they used these results to determine what literally millions of currently active WoW players are going to do?  Thats really pretty pathetic surveying.

I just don't see the problem with betas or any reason for the developers to try and limit access to the game in the way the OP suggests.  I didn't want to replay the same experience in beta that I most wanted to play live, so I picked a class I wasn't as interested in.  The people that care more about fast progession and server firsts got what they wanted, I got what I wanted from the experience which was to see the game for myself, and we all helped the developer test their equipment.  Nobody had to do anything that would ruin their launch experience.

Originally posted by afhn2110

So, is it wrong of me to feel that since I paid for that super expensive CE that was like $150 bucks to feel like I should get in beta?  I kind of feel like, its the most expensive pr-order ive ever seen for a game...imo, those that paid for that should get in the beta.  Is this just me, or?  Would like to hear other thoughts and not just people that didn't pay for that so they don't want to feel we should be ahead....just curious.

I also have a CE preorder, and I did get an invite to this weekends test.  The honest answer for me is I would have been annoyed at the least if I hadn't.  They may not have promised per se but they did say that everyone who wanted to test would basically get to, and I think paying customers should get a bump in line.  Its called customer loyalty, and while I'm not naive enough to actually expect it, it is nice when it happens.

Originally posted by joeyfishcake

I played Rift when it came out but decided to come back after few patches. Anyhow read about recent changes with 1.5 and upcoming 1.6. I guess they added a lot of solo/casual content? Was just wondering how life is for the extremely casual player. 0 to 15 hours max a week is all I'll be able to play per week. 

I'm playing Rift casually, probably 10 to 15 hours a week.  Its the most casual friendly MMO I've played thanks to easily accessable content, so I'm very happy with it.  As for Zippys rant, you say you don't mind content for casuals but you are here complaining about them in the Rift forum, a game that was targeted directly at casual players.  It was obivous from the beginning it would be like this so if you are playing, you voted with your wallet in favor of this type of content.

is the NDA over or did I just miss this stuff somehow??  I thought there was only 1 companion per class so far so they all seem like an improvement to me.  Is the Lord Scourge companion in the wrong group or does the jedi seriously get a sith pureblood friend?  pretty cool if so.  Oh and I know nothing about personality yet but the trooper choices seemed good to me, esp that bug guy.

Originally posted by gimmesome

Originally posted by Vorthanion

Don't like guilds, don't do them and never will.  Guilds add to an already anti-social move in this genre.  With combat becoming too action based, who has the time to chat in groups?  People in guilds will spend most of their time socialzing in said guild and ignoring the social aspects of the rest of the game.  They group only with guild members....etc.  Guilds help foster elitist attitudes and they end up getting a lot of preferential treatment from developers and alienating people who don't do guilds in the process.  Giving guilds exclusive content and exclusive access to rewards that are denied to non-guilders and even detrimental to the balance of the game.

Cliques suck in real life and they suck even more in games.

100% agree.     Esp. with your comment about Cliques.     Guilds are the epitome of Cliquiness.   

I can't say I never enjoyed myself in a guild, but I don't consider "the guild" itself as being the entity to thank for said good times.   Mostly, it's the individual connections I found that happened while being in the guild with the person(s), but that does not mean I wouldn't have enjoyed playing with and RPing with, and chatting with them if we never were in a guild together.

 

The guy that posted after you said he has no idea where you got the notion that guilds don't promote the social nature of these games, and that he feels they do the opposite.  I don't think he put any thought into what you said.   I don't think he realizes that it's not condusive to a growing community to only be friendly with people who are in the same "club" as you.     

I don't see how anyone can see the clique/guild mentality as something beneficial for a social environment.    

Unless, such people have never played an MMORPG that wasn't based on competing with every other person in the game world over every single activity.

I've been playing MMO's for 14 years, both in guilds and solo.  I can see why you guys might think this way, but I still think you're wrong.  Guilds don't nesseccarily promote elitist attitudes-  guilds full of elitists do that.  A guild is just a mechanic that allows players to find people of similar interests and playstyles.  Guilds existed before even meridan 59 and UO- my first major guild migrated to UO from neverwinter night on aol.  They helped build and define the social aspects of MMOs. 

Originally posted by Kabaal

These days it's not really surprising that the chat box is empty. Most decent guilds use ventrilo etc pretty much all the time that they play, there culd be 50 people on ventrilo and no one talking in chat. Personally i rarely even notice when someone types in chat and if i do it's usually like 20 minutes later.

I've been considering the guild question a lot lately as I am playing through the 40 lvl range in Rift currently so I get a lot of whispers from guilds trying to recruit me, and I'm also trying to decide if I want to join a guild for Swtor launch, and the realities of voice comms in guilds today is a major factor for me. 

 Even when I played MMO's that legitimately needed ventrilo to be successful, such as shadowbane,I hated using them and prefered typing.  Since then the changes in the way MMO's are played has really cut back on the need for voice chat-  when in WoW for example do you actually need that level of communication?  except maybe serious group pvp and progession raiders, never.  But at the same time its use by guilds has exploded. 

I've been causually looking for a rp-pvp republic guild for Swtor.  When I started looking I thought I would have no trouble finding  a guild that didn't plan on using voice comm programs in swtor, since I know from experience plently of people like me simply don't like using them, and since the old republic has fully voiced npcs, it will be an even bigger hassle than usual.  So far I haven't found a single one that won't use voice at all.  I realize some guilds use it but don't require it-  I've tried that and the result was feeling like a second class citizen basically. ( I should mention that a few years ago I had an illness that left me with some disabilities that made voice chat incoventient and an unpleasant experience at best, so thats why I went from dislike to unwilling to use)

edit: the voice comm stuff is a part of the OPs issues IMO bacause of the way it has effected chatting in guild, but to be more on topic-  I think the complaints about guild leaders and close friends getting the most from the guilds they run probably go back to the frist guild made lol.  Some are better than others but I bet to some degree this is usually true.  Other than that, the OPs experiences are similar to my own, but only in the WoW and post wow guilds I've been in.  My pre-wow guild experiences were almost totally opposite from what I find now.  In UO, Shadowbane, and SWG, my guild was a huge part of who I was as a player.  I can still remember my guildies names from back then, when I honestly cant even remember the name of the guilds themselves from wow.

just for perspective, a similar poll on the offical forums has, with 8,963 total votes:  

12% Jedi knight (1084 votes)

12.9% consular (1158)

9.6% trooper (863)

9.7% smuggler (870)

12.9% sith warrior (1157)

17.9% inquisitor (1605)

12.3% bounty hunter (1105)

12.5% agent (1121)

so its a pretty good spread amoung the classes even amoung the offical forums users, although it does seem to confirm that the republic will likely be outnumbered by the sith.  Still no telling how that relates to the average non-forum user.

this poll was a suprise for me too, but like some of you have said, the people on this site aren't exactly representative of the general gaming population.  I'm sure the hordes of lightsabers I pictured will be there in game lol.  What does suprise me is how popular the smuggler is.  I blame it on the video where the smuggler is voiced by bender from futurama ( not sure about that just sounds like it to me).

oh and yes my vote was smuggler, although I'm also a fan of the trooper class... I probably won't decide which to play first until I'm at character creation unless I actually get a beta invite.

I don't think its being slammed by critics really, but I think there are critics who disagree with the basic design choices the developers made and instead of simply saying that, they write a poor review.  For example, a reviewer says something like "the combat looks slow and terrible" when what they actually mean is "I am only interested in games with twitch based combat."   To a casual reader, the way they word the statement matters a lot, because they are now thinking the combat is broken, when its actually working as intended.  Just an example, not something specific btw.