"just a matter of figuring out what button to push when."

I think the author deserves the captain obvious award for the best answer to every game that has ever existed.

Originally posted by Khalathwyr

"Lord of the Rings Online launched in April of 2007 and as far as I am concerned, it was the last successful triple-A MMORPG launched (I think Free Realms is a good game too, but it's kind of playing a different ballgame). That means that we're coming up on three years before another MMO succeeds and we're placing a lot of hope in Star Wars: The Old Republic and DC Universe Online to bring us back to a place where we can feel good about a major game release. But I'm also hoping that past failures don't scare developers from innovating. I'd love to see another stab at an MMOFPS (which SOE has made mentions of, yay!) or even a new sandbox style fantasy game like Ultima Online back in the day."

 

I wouldn't put too much hope in those two titles. SOE has it's reputation which will forever (or at least until they let Smedley go) hamper any MMO they put forward. Add to that CO's launch and it looks to me like the "super hero" novelty has come and gone. If it was to succeed again it'd have to be done by a company that doesn't have the baggage that SOE and Cryptic have now. As for TOR...I really don't see it being the hit you hope it will. I think it'll be alot like Dragon Age: Origins, and there will be thoughts that while it is a good storied game, it's not something I'd want to pay monthly for. I'm loving DA:O right now, but there's no way I'd pay monthly for it, good story and all.

 

As for the second point (in orange) I don't see how it could scare them from innovating. They haven't been innovating, they've been chasing the dragon of WoW dollars and it is fairly easy to say those companies have already stopped innovating. The big name companies haven't put out MMOFPS' and Sandbox games. Only the small, severely underfunded indy companies have, and many have to resort to launching the game prematurely as you mention. Adventurine did it, Icarus the same and now Star vault is blatantly saying "Hey guys, we need you to buy our game so we can finish it".

the funniest thing i keep seeing is how people keep under estimating Bioware.  And what is even funnier is before WoW came out people said the same things about Blizzard.  Bioware is a tried and true company, if anyone can knock blizzard off their high horse it would be them.   And if they can't do it, then honestly i don't think anyone else can.  It may only sale a million off the start but in time it will gain ground i'm sure.

But i'm willing to bet that when TOR comes out it will be the greatest SW game ever and they will add in content every month or more-so.  Because if anyone payed much attention to the development they would know TOR is designed on the same engine as Hero's Journey.  Which enables them to make changes on the fly and add in content on the fly.

Originally posted by Samatman

I'm convinced after reading your article that I should leave my wife.  Her graphics are dated and the grind just isn't what it used to be.  I'm also suspicious that down the road she might even be going free2play.  Wouldn't it just figure that I bought the lifetime subscription too... I really wish now that I had just gone with the month to month plan.

lmao, you get my vote for best reply. 

at this point i think they should pay me to play their game :P, after all its still in beta right? lol  seeing how they are just now adding content...

Originally posted by Darksunrise

 

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Originally posted by Jamkull
I personally don't hate WoW either.  But it did get boring after i played for 3 months after launch and a month here and there to re-check things out from expansions.  I have a couple 60 level characters on different servers, plus a couple death knights. 
The thing for me was the direction WoW went, it seemed they put a lot more effort into Raids for PVE rather than concentrating on the PVP elements like Battlegrounds etc.  Because that is what makes Warcraft so fun to me, this was a RTS to begin with.  Why not concentrate on those elements more-so? Instead they went to appease the ex-EQ masses by adding more Mind numbing, time sinking, lack of creativity sort of Raids.  I wished Raids were never invented honestly... and I blame EQ.
Supposedly they were going to have a lot more hero classes as well, I see how well that has gone, a whole whopping 1 hero class so far and the game is 3 years old now!  Where are the others they promised?!
End game content is boring to say the least... Overall they had a great design.  I just think they fumbled the ball.  And the most stupid thing I see around the net is how WoW is the first MMO people have played and they accuse other games of being like WoW.  Yet WoW is by no means original in any shape or form.  They just used tried and true elements from MMOs that were already out.  And they weren't afraid to make their game fun for the most part, rather than making it all super anal retentive, ie EQ.
At least games are more fun in general now since WoW made such a huge dent in the MMO space.  Plus they taught people that graphics aren't everything as well as questing is a much more fun way to level rather than grinding for hours on end.  And it also showed how "ghay" SOE is once again... because they completely redesigned 2 of their prime games just to copy WoW and still failed overall imho.  makes me chuckle everytime i think about it.

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I dont know if you played EQ or not, but i dissagree with you... well to an extent. From my experiances with EQ 1 raiding was fun, you didnt go in to an instance.. expcept for Time that was kinda an instance since you had to gain access to it, and not everyone on our server had that. I was on Sullon Just to clear that up in the guild Hate, stopped shortly after LDON. Anyways, Raiding wasnt just against the Boss/Mobs in EQ on a pvp server it was also against the other 2 teams. You had to deal with pvp from 2 oppossing factions while trying to take down... what was it 60 man raid bosses while groups try and pvp you and train 10-20 more mobs on you as well.
Raiding in Everquest 1 was a challenge.

Back on topic Though, or The name of the Thread atleast... I hate WOW cause of Resiliance. Gear you get from battlegrounds or from Raids should all have the same type of stats just put more resistance stats back on gear.

this just goes to show that not everyone's idea of fun is the same... thus they should stop cloning games.  To me when it comes to doing PVP i want a real good and fun reason to fight.  I don't think grinding for days on end on creatures just to grind more on huge mobs all the while trying to prevent a zerg.  That is just a headache and a half and not my idea of fun.

I'd rather have a sandbox style Shadowbane game just a little more streamlined and more emphasis on the Simulation factor of a RTS command and conquer style game.  Or one that has emphasis on battlegrounds like Warhammer.  That is when it comes to a PVP setting. 

But even when you consider the same situation you where in, in a pure PVE setting, that's even more boring to me.  So to each is their own of course.  and yes i played EQ1 for about 6 months back in 2001.  With a RL friend that raided a lot, so i got the inside scoop real well. it didn't sound fun at all.

I personally don't hate WoW either.  But it did get boring after i played for 3 months after launch and a month here and there to re-check things out from expansions.  I have a couple 60 level characters on different servers, plus a couple death knights. 

The thing for me was the direction WoW went, it seemed they put a lot more effort into Raids for PVE rather than concentrating on the PVP elements like Battlegrounds etc.  Because that is what makes Warcraft so fun to me, this was a RTS to begin with.  Why not concentrate on those elements more-so? Instead they went to appease the ex-EQ masses by adding more Mind numbing, time sinking, lack of creativity sort of Raids.  I wished Raids were never invented honestly... and I blame EQ.

Supposedly they were going to have a lot more hero classes as well, I see how well that has gone, a whole whopping 1 hero class so far and the game is 5 years old now!  Where are the others they promised?!

End game content is boring to say the least... Overall they had a great design.  I just think they fumbled the ball.  And the most stupid thing I see around the net is how WoW is the first MMO people have played and they accuse other games of being like WoW.  Yet WoW is by no means original in any shape or form.  They just used tried and true elements from MMOs that were already out.  And they weren't afraid to make their game fun for the most part, rather than making it all super anal retentive, ie EQ.

At least games are more fun in general now since WoW made such a huge dent in the MMO space.  Plus they taught people that graphics aren't everything as well as questing is a much more fun way to level rather than grinding for hours on end.  And it also showed how "ghay" SOE is once again... because they completely redesigned 2 of their prime games just to copy WoW and still failed overall imho.  makes me chuckle everytime i think about it.

this game was designed in the wake of EQ1, so it has a lot of EQ1 aspects.  Even the not so fun "level down" feature that if you die close to the bottom of your exp pool then you'll De-level. the xp loss at high levels is horrid if you die.  As said, if you don't bring 6+ people along with you that will play at the exact same times then trying to get a pickup group in this game is about 2 to 4 hour wait at level 40+.  Needless to say this game is very anti-casual. 

this game lacks solo gameplay bad, the only 2 classes that seem to solo OK is redmage and beastmaster.  other than that it sucks.  But even if you do solo, the level grind in this game is just crazy bad, ala EQ1 style.  Grind until you are blue in the face, the only good thing is the down times aren't quite as bad as EQ1.  but they are still pretty close.

Good review nonetheless...

 This is why the loot system in Asheron's Call  is the best ever, plus with tinkering you are able to customize items the way you want.

 one of the best articles to date, well wrote.  I fully agree as long as it isn't "required" to play then item malls are all good i really can careless.  But on the same note, at least with the Asian Item Mall games, you are able to gain the items in the game that are in the malls in some way.  It seems the ones out of america are not like that.  Which could be some reason for the animosity.

 i've been waiting for a game to come out with this genre for a long time.  White Wolf would be a good company to look at for ideas on how to design the game around Vampire the masquerade.   But I would rather it be much like the idea of Underworld type atmosphere.  That way you and have different clans of vampires vs. werewolves.  

i'm all for it...

 thanks for the info, its about time they added something like two handed weapons... that's something i've wished for since 2000.  might have to try it out when this update is released.

 Anarchy Online has been getting facelift in the works since before AoC came out, but haven't seen much status of it in awhile.  So no telling with those guys what's going on.  they showed some video footage on their main website before, which looked really nice.  But i think it would be much better if they just re-designed the game with a good physics engine, UI and overall graphics engine it would be awesome.  

Ultima did have a new MMO coming out a long time ago, but the game got canned for whatever reason... It was being made with the latest Unreal engine etc...  supposedly a little bit real time.  Guess Tabula Rasa was more important lol.  

All i know is i'm still waiting for the REAL Asheron's Call sequel.  

Oh and don't forget that Asheron's Call is awesome also because it uses a Tinkering system on items in the game rather than a crafting system.  So you can modified random items found in the game to make them better.  I really think that system is way more fun than any modern crafting system.

well the key thing IF they want to make a sequel is to not alienate your current player base.  if nothing else you will sustain current subscribers with a good familiar design, so if current players are tired of the old game will find the new one a nice change of pace.

Plus if they add a few new elements and make the game have more re-play value as well as fun activities within the game that give it more addictive playability the better.  

That way they may gain new subscribers as well as appease your already fanbase.  Consistency, value, quality and overall fun seem to be some key factors to paying close attention also when doing a sequel.  And reading reviews about your own game can help a good bit, plus in-game questionaires of the original.  that way they can really get a feel for what worked and what didn't and carry over all the favorite things of the original.  Then add some more possibly innovative elements.  

But hey, i'm just sayin...

I don't think timeframes at which information is released really matters that much.  we knew about World of Warcraft a couple years in advance as well, there were a lot of naysayers about it as well.  When it first came out it had initial bugs like any other MMO.  But it's the overall design of the game that makes is fun and exciting.  Blizzard just like Bioware or even Bethesda.  They are tried and true companies that have a clue about how to make a game the right way.  They all of course have their very own speciality to their game development.  

So if you are a fan of the company's games then most likely it won't matter the hype.  you can dissect this until you are blue in the face.  But all in all, there is no perfect formulae on MMO or even regular game development.  The one thing is for sure is to have high quality and not to release a game early.  And that is one thing Blizzard did not make the mistake of doing.  they tested then tested more plus they moved their release date back two times throughout development.  I was one of the few waiting in the wings forever on it.

Just like That i will definitely be the first in line for anything Bioware makes or Bethesda, all are very favorite companies of mine.  They all make high quality games... RPGs primarily which i'm sure Bioware will turn the MMO genre on its ear when they come out with SWTOG.  And then when bethesda makes one they will do the same.  So hardcore fans of their previous games will most likely be eager to play their online versions as well.  some maybe hesitant at first but overall the hype and chatter on the web will suck them in, in due time.  It's how WoW got so big, plus word of mouth to all family and friends...  it's all relative.

I'm sure until WoW really bores the crap out of it's player base it will stay huge for a long time.  unless of course people are looking for a more in-depth RPG experience then they will find games by Bioware more appealing.  But if they are looking for something with more character customization as well as freedom of character skill/class design then Bethesda will be the best for that.  

But as far as the other companies out there, Funcom and Mythic are both fairly young companies, although they have shown to be pretty good at making MMOs they are still not the greatest at "game development".  they know how to make a data base run right, but when it comes to keeping people interesting in the game, they still lack in some areas.  Especially when it comes to content and things that really matter.  

Nonetheless, it doesn't take multi millions of subscribers to make an MMO successful either.  Look at SOE, they still keep going good and i'm sure they are lucky to have a million subs in all of their games combined.  Even before the days of WoW, most companies got by with only a quarter of million just fine.  there are even some with way less that still run.  So honestly... who cares?

If people burn themselves out due to hype then that's their own goofy fault.  There are tons of other things in the world to do than hang out endlessly at some game's website forum pestering the moderators every 10 seconds for new info.  It will be done when they are ready.  and if they choose to release early in a sub-par quality then that's the company's fault.  you either have faith they will eventually make it better or move on to something that is from a more reputable company.

well of course this is an mmo and some of what he has described has already changed.  the cost for retcon has already been reduced and you can retcon all the way back to character creation.

I just hope they make it so you don't take much damage when using "jump" type powers as well as mentioned in the article about acrobatics.  Jump powers you end up taking a lot of damage from the high jumps... well, its necessary for the power, so we shouldn't take that much damage if any when using Jump travel powers.

And the description for the powers are fairly limited, which needs to be worked on...

The difficulty should be something close to COH, but it is a little bit harder overall.  The reviewer is right, that is does feel a little "not so super"  but honestly its ok early on, but later on in the game you should be more-so.

overall a fun game though with lots of good potential, hopefully this doesn't turn into another SWG fiasco.

very well done preview... very informative and it actually answered all my questions, thanks

this just goes to show you should do your homework and look into the company making the game.  if it's some no-name company then don't trust much of what they say.  look around you... if Guild Wars is doing tournaments for only 100 grand, how the heck do you think some no-name company is going to do them for a million?  get real... people in general are way to gullible. 

and it's just real sad of what SOE done with SWG.  that is the first instance in history that a major company pulled the wool over everyone's eyes time and time again to simply try and make something that makes money because they can careless about their players... they have shown their true colors and not many care anymore.  They wanted to ride the WoW band wagon, but it had already rolled through.  But that's all good, i'll never play anything from SOE ever again.

as expected, nothing short of amazing from bioware :) can't wait to check it out.

the review was good except for the "not good for solo play".  this game is very solo friendly, if not one of the most friendly... because there are only 1 or 2 archtypes that can't solo well.  The only one i can think of off the top of my head are Dominators, they have the weakest overall dps, thus them being able to solo early on is diffecult, but later on in the game they are soloable.  just not nearly as good as Brutes are for instance.  but for the most part i've played this game solo, with the occasional friend that jumps on to play with me.  I've gotten 3 characters to level 50 mostly by solo play.  only 1 or 2 levels where made with groups. 

This game is very repetitious but the story elements are sometimes really funny and interesting.  There are a lot of different types creatures to fight, especially now with the architect system, people can make an endless amount of content for the game.

Its been a very fun game for me aside from Guild Wars.  To each is their own of course...

Great article... although it is a bit to little to late i'm afraid for Square Enix.  Many have screamed about their lack of attention to the casual crowd... but now that many more games are now becoming casual friendly and FFXI is starting to show its age... it's less worthwhile.  Especially since most of the main "good" portions of the game are still "party only" and leveling is a huge grind, with stiff death penalties that can make you lose levels like in EQ1, not to mention hours of grinding... not fun imho.