Originally posted by labryinth

Ok so this is a question to everyone who started with the now 'oldschool' MMORPGs like EQ and Ultima etc.etc, not WoW or Guild Wars, but just 1990-2003.

 

A lot of people really hate what the MMO market is now, but I was wondering if everyone who played the older MMOs actually felt exactly the same way when WoW and GW and all those types of games came out?

 

Did you all think 'WoW is way too casual, same with GW and EQ2' compared to EQ1 etc in 2004 and whenever GW came out?

 

Or do the oldschool and vanilla WoW, GW etc. players all agree that back in 2004 and downwards was collectively when MMOs were the best? Or do you think only EQ and Ultima Online were the best MMOs?

 

It's hard to explain but basically: was Everquest, DAoC and Ultima Online better than World of Warcraft (Vanilla) and Guild Wars (Vanilla) in your opinion, or do you think WoW and GW were the same games but just improved? Or did you think WoW and GW were in fact better than Everquest and Ultima even though you started with Eq and Ultima?

 

Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to ask.

I started Ultima Online 1998, very shortly after the game had been released. I remember reading its review in pc gamer magazine at the time, and even though it didnt get a great rating it sound so enteresting and fun I had to get it.

Anyways I am sure this will sound like a broken record but UO was the best mmorpg period. I say that for one reason all the others are the same, or use the level base = raid system found in early EQ.

1. They all have levels

2. Have to kill rat A to get to level 2 to kill rat B, rinse repeat level 50 raid blamo.

I played EQ when it first came out and it was a great game, but somewhere down the line every other game ever made after EQ just took the EQ design and expanded on it. So to me all the games are boring after EQ, since I got to experience EQ all they  way through 3 of there expansions. WOW is a great game I played it for at least a year, but it's just a polished EQ.

UO on the other hand was a totally different experience. You could just log in and hang around the bank and have a great time. People talked with each other all the time, there wasn't this sense of rush in it, it was way more layed back and sociable. I am very suprised that no other company tried and develelop a game like UO since its release. Its especially suprising considering the game is still being played as we speak for near 15 years now.

Well some of Warhammers idea's were solid, just implemented poorily. For instance as I was leveling this weekend on Aion, I found myself wanting to reach up to the right side corner an hit the scenerio's button. And a nice Tomb of Knowledge would be sweet as well as the PQ's in WAR.

Of course I would have loved to have had AION's awesome game engine in WAR, in which is the ultimate killer in WAR.

Originally posted by popinjay

 

---

Originally posted by meleemadness
Order or Destruction, it does not matter....we are looking for the most effective duo we can make to support each other in PvP.  We will be sitting next to each other so communication is instant.
I was under the impression tank/healer was good but I really do not know.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

---

 

1) War Priest and Bright Wizard.

2) War Priest and KOTBS.

3) War Priest and White Lion.

4) War Priest and Engineer.

5) War Priest and War Priest. :)

Yes WP is great, but less so after the chalice nerf. An AM's are pretty good right now as well.

I would say if you are going order

WP an BW for pvp

or Any healer and either an IB or Kotbs for pve and pvp

If you are looking at destro'

DOK and Chosen cant go wrong here

DOK and Scorcerres for bombs

DOK and SH for the ultimate pain in the you know what duo

Good Luck

Originally posted by johniferous

So, I quit warhammer in January as a 40 IB.

Basically, my computer sucked.  Suffered massive load times and significant lag during tier 4 sieges.

However, i'm going to pick up a new computer.

How would life in WAR be for a 40 IB?  Is it worth my return?  RvR good?  Are people still playing?

Thanks 

If I would have answered this 2 weeks ago, I would have said HELL NO dont Go. But since then they just did some server merges so their is plenty of action, and this Thursday a major patch is coming in to curb AE and CC. So I would at least check it out after Thursday to see how the new patch feels with a larger playerbase.

As for your question about 40 IB, the Ironbreaker is still considered one of the best tanks in the game and you can run bomb groups with them as well as one of the better pve tanks as well. Can't go wrong with the IB.

Originally posted by Murashu

Originally posted by segyn

 At the end, the Knight killed, the Sith looted him, took his lightsaber, and equipped it for a dual-saber build. Awesome Duel wielding light sabers woot

Fully implemented voice overs? Who F'n cares? 4th pillar story arcs? Who F'n cares?
 

 

PvP & player looting? This just made me much more interested in this game.

aggreed. I mean the star wars universe is just one big war good guys vs bad guys with some kissing in between scenes :)

Way to early to call, that being said I must say im excited Bioware is making an MMO it being star wars is even better. If they fail ill be suprised.

Originally posted by natuxatu

clearly some people don't know what they are talking about. it wouldn't be dumbed down it's the same game.

No one cares except PS3 fanbois who like to feel elite.

The only reason I think anyone would play it on a console is for convience. Family members that use the internet or limited computer time. Which is a good reason but nevertheless it's not a big deal.

This post FTW.... I could care less I have all 3 consoles, dont ask :P   For shit's an giggles I have even loaded up the same game when a friend brings the same copy over, I can't see any differences on my 60inch 1080P HDTV...And if you look at gamespot they actually compare the graphics and though they say the 360 wins in most tests, again I think its to close to call and varies game to game. I haven't seen one thing that either console can do that I feel like "O I wish my other console made games look like that".

That being said if I play the game I might play it on a console as well, its a good change and the recliner does sound nice. If they come out at the same time ill get it on the 360 because I like the controller abit better, if the PS3 comes out first ill grab it on that and have no regrets. If you want a good laugh go over gamespots console war's and watch them argue over these two. And btw I can guarantee you if they even come close to unleashing the games full graphical potential on the PC there will a lot more dumbed down from the PC to the consoles than from the PS3 to 360. These consoles were 2005-2006 were talking 2010 PC power when the game releases.

E3 is a console player's paradise. PC games dont really have much of an impact at E3 that I have seen. I expect other than MMO's we will be seeing even less PC exclusives each year released for the PC.

I could be wrong, but I think to understand why there is are so many WOW clones as we call them now and coming soon like aion. You have to try and think in terms of a business. There is probably, at most maybe 500,000 of us who go from MMO to MMO not being able to get our fix we are veterans looking for the next big thing that will make us feel like our first MMO made us feel usually.

Thing is when  you look at WOW there likes 8million+ subscribers? Im sure the numbers off its late but most of WOW's players are new to the MMO world. And as a game company you want to get those guys not the 500,000 or so MMO veterans game jumping. So they make a game like WOW hoping to appeal to the WOW crowd and hope to either scrape away some of there customer base by offering something similiar but new. I mean it makes sense. With some MMO's taking anywhere from 50-100 million to make its no wonder why fewer of these companies are willing to take chances. To much to loose. They are hoping by taking the safe bet they can make money and stay in business. We often forget thats why they make these games in the first place to make buck.

I have been a player of Warhammer now since November. Lets see thats Nov, Dec....May... eeh thats 7 months :)... And I think I have finally hit the point were I don't really feel like logging in anymore. I have been trying my best to make it to the LOTD expansion and will see maybe I will. I agree with thread starter there has been a lot of people that has left the game and a lot of the servers are fairly inactive atm which leads to boredom. That being said I am not going to bad mouth the game it gave me at least 5 months of fun which is pretty good for me these days. I won't discourage anyone from playing it. Heres what I got from my playtime

Pro's

1. Fun RvR.... It might not be perfect or balanced, or hell even rewarded, but it is very fun and its done as nice as any MMO I have played except for UO that is :P

2. Races and Classes.... Im more of a sandbox type of guy and love skills instead of leveling. But I think WAR has some of the best class race combos that I have played in a long time. I mean the Squig herder and Warrior Priest? These are just great classes that were well thought out.

3. Tomb of Knowledge....All MMO's need something like this, its a great way to track the progress of your character. Whenever I got bored I would find myself all the time thumbing through the Tomb of Knowledge looking at stuff I had not seen the last time.

4. Leveling through PvP...I will miss this thats for sure, more games should offer this if they have pvp content in the game.

Cons

1. Server instability...Its been addressed countless times, I wont go into it but the game was hurt because of it maybe in the future they will fix it.

2. Pve lacking....I didn't think the PVE was as bad as a lot of people made out to be. I just didn't think there is enough cool dungeons. Theres like 3-4 dungeons in WAR and there all kinda cool I thought, but how many times can you run the same three dungeons without getting bored? Im sure the next land patch will help some.

3. Crafting...Theres just not enough of it. The two you got wasn't bad Talisman and Apothercary, but they really needed more crafting.

4. Game just wasn't finished... Even though the game had one of the better launches I can remember in an MMO it just feels like theres alot of stuff left out.

In closing I would like to say again, I enjoyed the game an would recommend it for anyone, especially people who love pvp and just want a quick MMO fix. The best way I can describe WAR is and MMO lite. There is a lot of potential in the game, but sadly it wasn't implemented and I dont think Mythic has the same thought of what that potential is and the shrinking playerbase isn't waiting around for it either. And WAR is a game that HAS TO HAVE PLAYERS.... It just dont work without more than any other MMO I have ever played. In WOW for instance you can play the game almost in single play mode if you want, in WAR you cant have massive RvR without a massive player base, and WAR just dont have it.

Try a free server, theres tons out there FREE that has one land mass. Not 18000 expansions with 100 people playing on them. If you want to play UO you will get a better experience of what people where talking about on some of those shards.
 

Im not calliing myself a vet. I played from 97-2000. I play trammel for awhile but it just sucked that the player base was split,. I mean come on think about games of today, they dont split the playerbase like that into a seperate land base. They simply make pvp and non pve servers, simple as that. And I dont think UOR would have gotten the wrap it did if thats how they handled it back then, just split the servers up into PVE and PVP and allow us to transfer. They did a piss poor job and thats why people hate Trammel,. So im not a vet then, cause that did suck.

For the longest time I would have came back in a heartbeat. And a lot of has tried to get them to release one. They are hard headed and wont. In 2004 there was a player run shard called IPY - In Por Ylem,,,, I can say that now because its been closed down for many years :P anyhow''s that was a great server and it was full of life. 10x more people on that server at any given time than the main shards.

There was definatly a bunch of people loved the game back then including me and quiet a few friends. But at this point I can't really say if I would go back or not. I think around 2004-5 I gave up even trying to post stuff about it, other than it was my favorite MMO ever from 97-99.

On a side note It seems rather strange we haven't seen an Ultima Online 2 yet. They made 2 attempts at it and scratched them both before release. Strange really I had read where UO2 was 95% done when it was scrapped. I think at this point UO2 would be the answer the game really is to old now to gather much appeal. But who knows :P It rocked at one time.

I know there is a lot of Warhammer hating here but you have to give them props for trying to patch up the game. 1.3 Patch Land of the Dead content that other MMorpgs would easily charge for an expansion you get free? Lets give them some credit here.
 

Give this game a few more months an it could be great, but the playerbase grows tired. A very easy fix which probably will come to get more RvR happening is simple... Greater rewards. If they really want people hitting keeps, make it to where attacking a keep with 20+ on defense you get double the bags dropped than keeps that are defended. Its a pretty simple process as in life that translates to games as well.

People will always take the path of least resistance unless the hard path has a lot greater rewards. As has been said theres no reason to attack a defended keep that could take and hour, when a warband can take out an undefended keep in 10 minutes or less with the same rewards.

Sorry to hear that. As one poster said maybe someone had hacked your account and did something offensive with your account. It does seem they were a tad harsh on your account....

White lion used to be one of the best classes until Fetch was nerfed. Now they need work on their pet, I still wouldn't classify this is a bad class. i have a few in my guild 50+rr that put up Huge numbers. Not to mention a few tweeks and they could be overpowered. I think it will be a good long term class, this game is still very new and getting patched frequently.

Originally posted by TheHavok

Originally posted by 7Fold

Before everyone comes crashing down on MMORPG for their review, lets see how the rest of the game review sites reviewed Warhammer?

 

IGN                                             9 / 10                     Oct 9, 2008
Thunderbolt                              8 / 10                     Jan 22, 2009
Worth Playing                           8.9 / 10                  Dec 25, 2008
Game Chronicles                    9 / 10                    Oct 26, 2008
GameZone                               8.8 / 10                  Oct 20, 2008
Gamervision                             8 / 10                    Oct 13, 2008
1UP                                            B                               Oct 1, 2008
Eurogamer                              8 / 10                         Sep 11, 2008
GamePlasma                        7.2 / 10                     Jan 1, 2009
GamersHell                            8.5 / 10                      Dec 7, 2008
Fragland                                 80 / 100                     Nov 22, 2008
GamingTrend                        89 / 100                     Nov 2, 2008
Computer Games RO         85 / 100                     Nov 1, 2008
Gamers Temple                   92 / 100                     Oct 31, 2008
PALGN                                    8 / 10                         Oct 30, 2008
Gaming Target                     8.8 / 10                       Oct 30, 2008
GamerNode                          8 / 10                          Oct 24, 2008
AceGamez                             9 / 10                            Oct 16, 2008
UGO                                          A                                 Oct 16, 2008
AtomicGamer                       88 / 100                       Oct 14, 2008
Armchair Empire                 8 / 10                             Oct 13, 2008
Game Revolution                   A-                                 Oct 10, 2008
Gameplayer                        8.5 / 10                            Oct 3, 2008
GameShark                            A-                                   Sep 30, 2008

G4 - X-Play                           5 / 5                                  Sep 27, 2008
GameSpy                             5 / 5                                  Sep 26, 2008
Cheat Code Central           4.7 / 5                               Sep 23, 2008
Gameplanet                        8 / 10                                Sep 21, 2008
PC Gamer                          86 / 100                             Dec 25, 2008
Game Informer                    8 / 10                              Dec 1, 2008
PC Gamer UK                    88 / 100                            Sep 19, 2008
Edge Magazine UK              7 / 10                               Dec 25, 2008
PC Format UK                      87 / 100                           Dec 1, 2008
PC Zone UK                         92 / 100                          Dec 1, 2008
gamesTM                              8 / 10                               Nov 1, 2008
PC Power Play                     7 / 10                                 Dec 1, 2008
Total PC Gaming                 8 / 10                                 Nov 1, 2008
 

Average Critics Score 8.6

MMORPG Review Score 8.4

 

 

You can tell which reviewers dont know how to properly rate an mmorpg based on when they released their review.  Warhammer was released on September 18, 2008 simultaneously in North America, South America, Asia, Europe, Australia, and New Zealand.  You really think somebody can accurately review an mmorpg in 10 days?  I say it takes atleast 2 months, and even then you have to have reached max level and experienced all aspects of the game in some degree to write a review that is comprehensive.

 

Also, while I dont think warhammer has earned an 8.4, I do think the review from mmorpg was accurate.

You guys are nitpicking. I count 5 reviews who reviewed the game in less than 2 weeks. There are a bunch more that waited till November and December to release there reviews. I have read many of the reviews on the sites I posted and a lot are very detailed an points out the goods and bads of WAR. One site expecially X-play, I feel the word is better than most and they gave WAR the MMO of the year ever over WOTLK.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/48566/x-play-x-play-best-of-2008-best-mmo
 

My point is that players rate the games to harshly or to high. Its like 10/10 or 3/10... Its just like that, if you go an look at all the reviews on all the games in the player review list on MMORPG its either "I LOVE IT BEST GAME EVER" or "WORST CRAP EVER MADE STAY AWAY".... Theres very few middle ground posts, in which its nice to have game sites review the games to get a better feel of what you are getting. Not to mention a lot of people quit a game and for some reason or the other hold a serious grudge against the game, and troll the forums denouncing it at every opportunity. These people also put reviews up :P

I think WAR has the potential of being a great game. WOW? Nope EVE? maybe, or at least I hope it has that lasting power. They are constantly adding new content an if you read the review it even says they are working harder than most companies to fix there game. As I said WAR is the only game that allows me to jump in and play from level 1-MAX without even hitting an NPC if I dont want to. That in itself is cool for some of us who are tired of the same o kill 10 of these and return for your bronze shield. And you can even do that if you want hehe.

I really hope they can fix it up nicely because like the reviewer I think its a great game with extreme potential if they can hammer out the bugs, increase the end game, add more crafting and anything else that needs work. For people who skipped it, give it a shot.

Peace :)

Before everyone comes crashing down on MMORPG for their review, lets see how the rest of the game review sites reviewed Warhammer?

IGN                                             9 / 10                     Oct 9, 2008
Thunderbolt                              8 / 10                     Jan 22, 2009
Worth Playing                           8.9 / 10                  Dec 25, 2008
Game Chronicles                    9 / 10                    Oct 26, 2008
GameZone                               8.8 / 10                  Oct 20, 2008
Gamervision                             8 / 10                    Oct 13, 2008
1UP                                            B                               Oct 1, 2008
Eurogamer                              8 / 10                         Sep 11, 2008
GamePlasma                        7.2 / 10                     Jan 1, 2009
GamersHell                            8.5 / 10                      Dec 7, 2008
Fragland                                 80 / 100                     Nov 22, 2008
GamingTrend                        89 / 100                     Nov 2, 2008
Computer Games RO         85 / 100                     Nov 1, 2008
Gamers Temple                   92 / 100                     Oct 31, 2008
PALGN                                    8 / 10                         Oct 30, 2008
Gaming Target                     8.8 / 10                       Oct 30, 2008
GamerNode                          8 / 10                          Oct 24, 2008
AceGamez                             9 / 10                            Oct 16, 2008
UGO                                          A                                 Oct 16, 2008
AtomicGamer                       88 / 100                       Oct 14, 2008
Armchair Empire                 8 / 10                             Oct 13, 2008
Game Revolution                   A-                                 Oct 10, 2008
Gameplayer                        8.5 / 10                            Oct 3, 2008
GameShark                            A-                                   Sep 30, 2008

G4 - X-Play                           5 / 5                                  Sep 27, 2008
GameSpy                             5 / 5                                  Sep 26, 2008
Cheat Code Central           4.7 / 5                               Sep 23, 2008
Gameplanet                        8 / 10                                Sep 21, 2008
PC Gamer                          86 / 100                             Dec 25, 2008
Game Informer                    8 / 10                              Dec 1, 2008
PC Gamer UK                    88 / 100                            Sep 19, 2008
Edge Magazine UK              7 / 10                               Dec 25, 2008
PC Format UK                      87 / 100                           Dec 1, 2008
PC Zone UK                         92 / 100                          Dec 1, 2008
gamesTM                              8 / 10                               Nov 1, 2008
PC Power Play                     7 / 10                                 Dec 1, 2008
Total PC Gaming                 8 / 10                                 Nov 1, 2008
 

Average Critics Score 8.6

MMORPG Review Score 8.4

I like the dungeons myself. Im not sure what you guys are talking about you have to do them in order to compete or play rvr?

You get rvr gear from players and gold and massive bags off keeps, fortress and city sieges. I have a full set of annihlator on one tune minus shoulders, 3 pieces of conqueror, 1 invader. I have done sigmar crypts only 3 times could have done it more, but bagged 3 pieces of sentinel. You dont have to go the dungeons. But I find them a nice get away if you are bored of pvp or what not. Its not like we have a ton of dungeons compared to every other MMO out there.

WAR is a really good game, that could be super if they keep on fixing it. They are trying. And to be honest were is someone like me supposed to go to play rvr like WAR? Four areas if the improve WAR will be great.

1. Meaningful pvp, they need to make the end game better, RvR needs to branch out from BO, Keep, Fortress, City... They are some good ideas floating around.

2. LAG>. Big time need to fix this in raids, it has gotten better though.

3. Class balance - They are working on it, I give them that.

4. Crafting, simply put they need more crafting skills. Like to see Jeweler as an option myself.

I dont know why this review suprises anyone, if you look at all the Reviews of WAR on the major game sites, it gets Great Reviews. Players are the ones who give bomb reviews. A game site cant do that an be legit. MMORPG.com couldn't put a review out like players or do or they would be dismissed as immature.

Shadow Warrior, Archmage, Zealot..... To me are the worst classes in the game. Shadow Warriors were not built for zerg warfare plain and simple. If this was a small skirmish game maybe it would be different. Archmage just sucks compared to the Rune Priest and especially the Warrior Priest although they are fixing it. The zealot is pitiful.

Thats it :)