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All Posts by fivoroth

All Posts by fivoroth

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I was suprised it took Sony so long to sell this company. They were pissing on the Sony brand. Other Sony products are great but this company was just a joke for a very long time and still is.
Originally posted by MorrowGaming

This game has such great potential under a decent publisher, but then again as long as the devs have their say on what goes on in the game in the west I fear it will always have its problems. It does not surprise me that yet again another exploit that potential is game breaking, balance ruining has surfaced. This game is full of them and Trion are way outta their depth when it comes to dealing with hacks, bots and exploits. 

Under a decent publisher? What about the developer? The game was broken even before Trion touched it. I am not a Trion fan (I don't play any of their games) but you should not put the blame solely on Trion when the actual developer who mde this game is incompetent and crap. If it was a publisher thing, Archeage would have not failed bdaly in every single region it launched. There are good ideas in AA but there are too many things that are fundamentlly broken.

Originally posted by donger56

This is the best example ever of a good game that was completely ruined by absolute incompetent and dishonest management. It was a total cash grab from the very beginning when they charged people 150.00 just to play a fake alpha that was all about marketing and nothing about testing.  Trion is a sinking ship with a string of failures that it won't recover from. I would never spend a dime on any game they manage after the shameful way they managed archeage. I don't expect Trion to survive much longer, they don't have a single game that is making a profit though they will never admit it since they are privately owned they don't have to release any financials. 

What are you on about? Archeage was made by an incompetent Asian developer. Their game is so badly coded that apparently is incredibly easy to hack the shit out of it. Archeage failed badly because the game was full of hacks and exploits and that's not tolerated here in the EU and NA. But what from I hear it tanked in Asia too.

So don't blame Trion for this mess. They just made the wrong decision of picking up this steaming pile of shit. The game was not mishandled. The game was flawed by design if it is so easy to hack and exploit. There were numerous design flaws as well and the economy is totally broken due to the whole land fiasco and the incredibly broken crafting system.

Originally posted by NightHaveN
What I mean, the games I mention in my previous post provide a way for characters to fill most roles (tank, heals, mdps, rdps), but you will have to give up the shapeshifter cuteness.

For me it's not about being able to fill different roles - that's just a hybrid. What I loved was the the shapeshfiting Druid class. To be honest it's the class I've played the longest, I played Druid throws every single wow expansion and I just can't stick to one class in other MMOs. 

Pic there's one thing that I think wow did that no other mmo or rpg did was this very unique class.

I still haven't played the witcher 3 but am a huge fan of the previous two games. There was one major beef I had with the other two games and what I wanted to find out - controls. 2 and especially 1 had horrible controls, I tried both mouse and keyboard and a controller. At times it was just disgusting but I played the game despite this. It seems from some of the posts here they still haven't got the controls right which if true would be sad as that's the one thing that keeps this series from being truly great.
Originally posted by Herase
Originally posted by Xingbairong
Originally posted by exile01
Why do so many people say HoTS is for the simple minded people??

Probably because the game is too hard for them, so obviously they will bashed.

The truth is that HoTS is a lot more competitive than both DOTA and LoL.

Everything machajas said above in his comment is spot on. What's more HoTS promotes hard team play. You can't get carried by a single person. 

Also it requires fast response to what the enemy is doing. I won't get into details, but I'll say for example on Haunted Mines the teams have to make a lot of hard decisions constantly. There are literally 10s of different scenarios on what you could do at late game even if you are losing to win.

In DOTA and LoL the strategy if you are losing is to wait till your carry get's fat enough to contend with their carry. That's all. 


Bit of a bold statement to make. Yes 100% agree HotS is a heavy on team play, but to say LoL and DOTA is all about getting the ADC feed, then win is a bit of a joke.

Completely agree. I have lost count of the number of times there was a comeback in Dota and it was not due to the carry "getting fat".  In the late game one lost team fight can and probably will cost you the game. Once you team wipe the enemy team has enough team to destroy your entire base and end the game.

Originally posted by Khaunshar
Originally posted by Veexer_Nui

Shared experience gain, no items, no gold. If someone on your team is feeding, you've lost.

Trash game trying to make some money from LoL/Dota success. 

If someone on your team is feeding in LoL or Dota, its lost as well. Number of games where you can win a 4 vs 6 in either game is miniscule. Yes, it CAN happen, but then i find it a lot more winnable in HotS, where "feeding" really doesnt give the enemy team so much stuff.


Items are talents, so the "no items" thing actually just means you have little clue how the game works. Variety of build per champions is as diverse as in LoL, where usually only 1 or 2 valid item builds exist. No Gold you are correct, the lack of "farming" and last-hitting is indeed a removal of complexity, I ll give you that.

Its a casual Moba, but judging from your post, you either lack experience, intelligence or interest in actual discussion.

As you've said if someone is feeding on your team, you have most likely lost teh game. Also someone said that one person can carr ythe team, I guess that may be true if you are playing in extremely low skill level games.

I don't get what you mean by your item comment. Items are more confusing to newbies who have never played the game. Variety per champion is probably more diverse than LoL. One thing I hated about LOL was how pigeonholed everything felt. Compared to DOTA it feels so very limited.

Farming gets so tedious after a while. Playing a hard carry in DOta makes me want to kill myself nowadays.

Wow is the only thing that comes to mind but you have already played this. There was a shapeshifting druid in Diablo 2 but that's an ancient game by now. Can't think of anything else. I have been looking for a cool RPG with a great shapeshifting druid class but alas havent found any.
Hots is dumbed down yes but it's fun. League of legends is dumbed down and it's not fun. So I guess I will play hots and Dota :D
I am playing GTA 5 and after that game I can't play a serious boring ass MMORPG
Originally posted by Wizardry

Although i did see the nmbers advertising before Wow with the Asian games,it was Blizzard who really pushed it in NA.

Pretty much every single advertising thread i witnessed said something about numbers and VERY little about the actual game.That really tells me something when a game that has such big numbers can't find a single good thing to say about the game,just posts the numbers.

The next phase i witnessed had to do with Raiding,then i noticed even Asian games started posting "we have Raids" as their advert gimmick.SO Blizzard really started the push on two lame advertising gimmicks,create that fake hype surrounding Raid l33tism and the numbers game, "play our game,because everyone else is,mentality".

When i see any lame gimmick by a developer,it really turns me off,it can turn a 8/10 game into a i won't play your game if you paid me to.You want me to play your game through advertising,at least have the knowledge of your game to tell me about the game and not just numbers or that you have raids.



To be honest you are exaggerating. Yes, when WoW was coming out and in its early ages the whole we have the numbers thing was being advertised. However, saying that people couldn't find a single good thing to say about WoW is just ridiculous. There were a lot of things to like about WoW when it came out and during the early expansions and they were mentioned by a huge number of people.

WoW was huge and there were plenty of reasons for that from a gameplay, quality, design, content and graphics point of view. Those were shared by millions of people. So your whole hate around the advertising is just unfounded. There were many good things to say bout the game.

Originally posted by Loke666
Originally posted by whilan

Lineage is the Korean Wow, comparing another game with it is as useful as comparing it to Wow. MMOs became mainstream faster in South Korea so Lineage were the game that got people to play there and the first game is magical.

As for GW2 it does about as I thought it would, don't forget that GW didn't become close to what it became until after Nightfall released. For GW2 to really become the game it should be it needs a similar expansion/campaign.

What do you mean that GW didn't become close to what it became after Nightfall released? Do you mean from the way it played or didn't become as good until Nightfall?

GW Prophecies was probably the best iteration of the game as the game was new and there was a lot more people to play through the missions. Factions was amazing too but you could notice the spreading of the population as the world became bigger and bigger.

Nightfall expanded the world again and it started to feel like a very different game as everyone was playing by themselves then. And let's not forget that it was only a few months into Nightfall that we got the heartbreaking news that GW1 was going to be put on life support after GWEN.

If anything GW was way better during Prohpecis and Factions. I don't even know if population was higher during NIghtfall & Gwen. It certainly didn't feel that way. And we can't take sales as an indication as they only announced cumulative sales at various points. So Prophecies and especially Factions could've easily eclipsed Nightfall and GWEN in terms of active players and even sales.

Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by Axehilt
Originally posted by Thebeasttt
I don't know what's more frightening. The fact that OP has to play an MMO by himself to enjoy it or the fact the industry is actually catering to these people?

With the caveat that neither of the things is remotely frightening, we could probably say that the former thing is more frightening (among non-frightening things.)

and people would be "frightened" by how other play games, and what devs want to cater to? Really?

Beasttt's comment is the most "frightening" as it seems a lot of people on these forums are "frightened" by these two things.

Originally posted by strawhat0981
I would love to see the pop in a game with a 40$ sub. 

It would be as dead as Wildstar...I mean door nail.

Originally posted by gervaise1
Originally posted by Foomerang

Originally posted by Torval

Originally posted by Foomerang Their 3 MMOs made a combined total of 200 million dollars last year. It looks like more than half of that came from FFXIV. That falls in line with 700k-800k subs plus whatever the cash shop brought in. They are in a prime spot for this expansion to be a huge success. Bottom line is that we will continue to see the quality we've come to enjoy.
I think that would be closer to 600k or a little under. If you take 100M / 12 that equals 8.3M per month. I used $14 per month as the sub rate to reflect the lower sub fee for many. I also dropped anything over the 100M and the 33k per month to attribute some revenue to the cash shop. It could be more, but I wouldn't think much more than 50k and not much less than 20k as a margin of error.
Judging by the graph it looks like FFXIV is bringing in more than the other two combined by a wide margin. Xi isnt even a blip on the bottom of the graph and DQ dropped off sharply. I think they combined all three to make the other two look good but xiv is by far the largest contributor. Definitely more than half or greater than 100 million

Maybe - and FFXIV being the biggest contributor would be my take as well but very easy to underestimate the popularity of DQ in Japan. Easy to dismiss if it wasn't for the fact that SE's sales are weighted towards Japan.

Indeed one of the disappointments contained in these results is that both US and EU revenue has fallen by c. 10%. These are the regional numbers for all SE games:

  • US: 21,152 to 18,124
  • EU: 19,732 to 18,124
  • Japan: 111,326 to 129,072
  • Asia: 2,812 to 3,378
That said overall these results continue SE's "recovery" but when it comes to mmos? If the 600k estimate is accurate that would suggest a huge fall from last years 1M+ for all three games. Is it accurate? 
I don't think it is. Nothing wrong with taking the revenue and dividing by the sub cost the problem is what sub cost?
From the graph mmo revenue is c. 24 billion yen. Rather than converting this into dollars and dividing by $14 this is what happens if we leave it in yen and divide by the Japanese subscription cost of c. 1,400 yen. (FFXIV basic is 1,280; 1,480 for standard 30 days, 4,140 for 90 days; DQX sub is 350 for 3 days, 650 for 10 days, 1,500 for 30 days).
24 billion yen is 2 billion yen a month; ignore any disc sales and divide by 1,400 answer: 1.43M for all 3 games.  
So the number of subs is probably something between Torval's 600k and a higher number because, basically, the cost in Japan is lower. This calc also ignores the revenue from China which will be in the form of a royalty which will further lower the average "sub" that SE get per player.
Overall I don't disagree that these results suggest that FFXIV players should continue to see further content. Revenue is broadly stable and they have stopped development on FFXI. And it has now launched in China and downstream is to launch in Korea. 

This is very true. It's not as easy to estimate numbers of subs based purely on revenue as already mentioned, part of that revenue is cash shop and box sales and the rest is subs. But we also don't know how much people are paying a month as there are several rates depending on what sub chosen (basic or not) and how many months at a time (lower rates for sub-ing for more than 1 month). Then there is FX exposure. You can't just take 24 billion yen and divide it by the Japanes sub. SOme subscribers pay in dollars, some in yen, some in euros, some in pounds and it goes on and on. Also it depends how much of that revenue is exchanged for yen. If $ 1k were exchanged for yen in Nov 2014, then you would use the spot rate at that point. Any FX currency held which is not the functional currency of the company (in this case yen) need to be revalued using the spot rate at the end of the reporting period.

So all that means you can't derive the nubmer of subs from purely revenue figures. YOu can make a lot of assumptions and calculate based on those but those may not be the actual figure or even close to actuals.

Originally posted by scorpex-x
Originally posted by drivendawn

Lookin good.


They refuse to give any information showing actual numbers and their mobile division made twice as much money as all their mmo titles combined.  Doesn't look that good to me.


Why are people trying to number crunch the figures to try figure out sub numbers, you do realise this game has an extensive cash shop right?


Having said all that, they are obviously going to continue to support it long-term so it's under no real fear of anything negative.

Mobile games make more money than an MMO? Shocker. MMORPGs are the most niche genre of the gaming industry it seems. Mobile gaming is one of the most popular. What exactly doesn't look good to you? The number of people who play MMORPGs is just tiny. MMORPGs re probably dwarfed even by the RTS genre which is often seen as fairly "niche".

Originally posted by simplius
Originally posted by fivoroth
Originally posted by zaberfangx
Yeah, pvp server pretty much dead in the water, In General pvp server  in a mmo have trouble keeping people with balance and faction in the mix.

In general PvP servers suffer from population issues? Not sure which games you are basing this on but in WoW PvP servers were always the most populated ones.

@OP, I knew it had an extremely low population but not this low. Wildstar was the biggest MMO fail of all time. I can't remember a single other major MMO that tanked so quickly. This game literally died within the 1st month.

I don't think this is going F2P. The audience is just not there. I am thinking NCSoft are just going to shut it down like they have done with some of their other MMOs.

AFAIK there are roughly 3x as many PVE servers, as PVP in wow, that should explain it

DCUO doesnt even HAVE a PVP server anymore, and WS PVP servers are dead too, this supports his theory

yea, the biggest parts in WS was the budget, and the devs egos

F2P has "saved" some games, but this one? i dont think so

Just a quick check on WoW server stats it appears there are 114 PvE servers vs 109 PvP servers in NA. I don't have time to check for EU but I can't imagine it's much more different. There is only 5 more PvE servers but by pure population numbers if you lumped all PvP servers against all PVE numbers, PvP will be way higher which means that for WOW PvP servers are a lot more populated. But then again there isn't a massive difference between a PvP and PvE server in WOW. Back in the day people played on PvP servers simply because they were the highest pop servers with the best raiding progression guilds.

I am not sure what the case is for other games.

In any case Wildstar is a dead game. THe population numbers are inredibly low for a game this new.

Originally posted by zaberfangx
Yeah, pvp server pretty much dead in the water, In General pvp server  in a mmo have trouble keeping people with balance and faction in the mix.

In general PvP servers suffer from population issues? Not sure which games you are basing this on but in WoW PvP servers were always the most populated ones.

@OP, I knew it had an extremely low population but not this low. Wildstar was the biggest MMO fail of all time. I can't remember a single other major MMO that tanked so quickly. This game literally died within the 1st month.

I don't think this is going F2P. The audience is just not there. I am thinking NCSoft are just going to shut it down like they have done with some of their other MMOs.

Originally posted by udon

If there is no skill in MMO's why is it that so few people ever see the end game to completion?  And I'm not just talking about raids either even small group content in games like EQ2 only a very small percentage of the population ever completes all of it.  

Also why is it there is such a huge difference between really good players and average ones?  it's true that gear does make a difference but I have known many players playing the same classes in the same gear doing the same fight where one player excels beyond his peers all else being equal.

Yea sure you can squeak by almost any MMO being average but that doesn't mean the ability to excel isn't there with good play, smart planning and yea skillful execution of your class.  Maybe the issue is more one of the game not advertising exceptional players like they do in other genres?  Or the places where skill is required are not as obvious as some other types of games?  Either way it doesn't mean skill isn't there just that you are not taking the time or energy to go find it.

Why do so few people see end game to completion? Because people have lifes. Raiding requires too much of a time commitment to play. It literally requires you to schedule your life around a game. So a lot of people don't like raiding because it's more of a chore which takes excessive time. You want to play 1 hour today? Too bad, raids take 3-4 hours at a time. Want to raid whenever you feel like? Too bad, if you join a raiding guild you need to attend on certain days! Of course there are solutions like LFR in games like WoW but that's fairly easy and most people are done with it quite quickly.

Again raiding forms only like 1% of all MMO content. Raiding is certainly a lot more challenging but 99% of the rest of an MMO (aka solo experience, dungeons etc.) feel easy.

I am not sure how difficult it is to excel at an MMO. It certainly doesn't feel like the skill ceiling is set particularly high, it certainly pales in comparison with MOBAs, SC2 which you will NEVER excel at. In Dota people with 500-2000 hours of playtime can't even call themselves "average". I have friends who've played that game for 3-4k hours and they are probably less terrible than someone like me with much less experience. So I would be "terible" they would probably be below average.

Originally posted by jeeshadow

There are hard things in MMORPG's.  But thank god the combat isn't one of them.  I don't want to have to focus on my keyboard instead of watching the screen while in a fight.

But simplistic combat does NOT mean the game doesn't have hard elements.  I started MMO's with Dark Age of Camelot which had very easy combat.  But the coordination required when doing any group thing could be quit difficult and require each person to play their role with high expertise.  Then you take that group mechanic into the RVR of the game and things got even more difficult where it took an in-depth knowledge of your class and how you worked with others to take on other player groups.  Skill was needed.

Now I play Wildstar, have you?  Here the combat involves a lot of defensive maneuvering and using the right skill at the right time.  The raid bosses and even dungeon bosses require Coordination in the group and skill, lots of skill.


So if all your judging an MMO is by what is required for you to kill a single mob while soloing, then yes, its very simple.  But then, that's just the tip of the iceberg in MMO's, isn't it?

I am in fact indeed judging MMOs by their solo experience. Because I need to go through hundreds of hours of soloing mobs to get the 0.5% that actually may require some actual involvement from me. How can something be the tip of the iceberg if it makes up 90% of the content in a game? If anything, high-end game raiding which requires a lot of cordination is the very tiny bit of teh iceberg to which you need to spend 100-200 hours to get to.

Originally posted by Pepeq

Define skill?  You're ability to mash buttons faster than your opponent?  Your ability to mimic a pre-choreographed instance encounter?  Your ability to acquire indecent profits on the AH?


When the final boss requires you to do differential calculus to complete an encounter, you can mention the word *skill* in the same sentence as a video game... until then, get over yourself.

Skill - anything from gaining knowledge about game mechanics, to microing (or how good you are at controlling your character) to strategic thinking etc. A lot of other posts in this thread talk about skills and I how I assumed that would be some kind of hand eye co-ordination - FPS style.

Ability to mash buttons faster than your opponent - you can't do that in many skill intensive genres - RTS, FPS, DOTA, Turn based games, platformers, action games etc.

YOur last sentence is just retarded. Have you played a game like DOTA or Starcraft II? Can you really say those games require no skill? Really? There are no scripted events. You need strategic thinking, good microing, excellent understand of game mechanics, team work and being able to think quickly. Those games have such high skill ceiling that you can play them for 10-20 years and still be no where near good.


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