a ban humz.. i vote for a public hanging of ninja's of some sort but a ban.. meh

Originally posted by tro44_1

Yuo say you liked the Old PvP,

But even though Damage has got higher,

the only trade off from Vanilla WoW, is that the Hps were smaller back then. you could still get One Shotted back then.

please dont tell me you forgot about that stuff back then.  Chain Lighting Spaming Shamans, one shotting people off Cliff in AV.

Dam it was fun, but the Damage/Hp ratio back then was way more close then now, which allowed for more one shotting

you are forgetting tho that those shamans wich did 25k damage whered buffed to the max and stuff.  no normal shaman would be able to do that  www.youtube.com/watch . This is not a normal PvP situation. this is but  bugged he had deathwish and MS wich was a bug at the time www.youtube.com/watch

yes Hp was lower. speccially of cloth users. both msot of the people getting hit dont already have alot of Hp i agree with you the Damage/Hp ratio was closer. but now people can  do 5 actions in 1 push of a button (hi paladins)  wich is retarded without pvp gear. stuff was more balanced back then.

well PvP has changed trough the years.

For me it started out being fun. PvE and PvP where balanced, i was a Tank (warrior) in vanilla WoW and i was a valuable player in PvP. Not that i killed alot of people but i carried alot of flags in WSG i was indestructible. in AV i could take the damage of all the oposite players (40) and push them back to there base just by slowly walking (yes the days AV actually still was about pvp) and Arathi basin i could hold a flag from 10 players for 2 mins with them not being able to kill me or cap it before reinforcements arived. ( 1v1 battle's could last a long time depending on class)

Second phase lvl 70 Honour rank system destroyed, Arena system released with resillience gear. I hated this. i PvP'd for fun. i wanted to get away from the PvE pressure of concentrating and jsut have fun wich in arena's does not work.. damage got so high in PvE that resilience had to be introduced to keep PvP balanced. (if not in resilience gear u where done for)

phase 3 WotLK lvl 80 damage increased by alot more. No Balance whatsoever in PvP i get killed by paladins in 5 secs (or less) flat. in that same time i could have mabey gotten 3 hits in including my auto attack. The Damage is just too high for evrything to still be balanced especially without arena gear (wich i stil dont do therefore stil dont have). Blizzard teared apart the rift between PvE and PvP. to give PvP'ers there own special little place. but they are forgetting that in the outside world people dont have resilience gear and get 3shotted without having a slightest chanse to do anything..

They are workign on arena gear trough rated BG's but its already too late. Stats should not have increased but that much over the years. Or wich i favor  outdoor PvP damage needs a change wich would make resilience absoleet and let BG's and outdoor PvP'ers be on another playign field  as arena people aka  PvE, PvP, Arena.

Edit.

To awnser your question :P do i like other PvP better? well.. i dont know. im not really playign any other phantasy MMO exept EQ2 wich focuses on PvE more or less :)

Originally posted by LogothX

Allow me to start by saying that I haven't played this game since Season 3 in the Burning Crusade. I had left the game out of boredom and irritation with the arena system in general. I had found myself doing magisters terrace over and over for a trinket that was a sidegrade at best.

 

Many lack luster MMORPGs later, I find myself unplugged, so to speak. I had heard praise for WOTLK during my brief stay in Warhammer, but I thought to myself that I'd just find myself in the same position in the end and shrugged it off after much internal debate.

 

This is the part where I'd say "Being that I havent been playing MMOs, I've done this and this, and so fourth, I've also perfected my dildo craft and am currently attending witch craft classes" but that is not the case. In the end, I'm on my computer nearly 24/7 and I've been doing constructive things such as game creation, as well as some recreational activities such as Team Fortress 2.

 

Now, I find myself here, a boring releasless summer - still playing TF2 sometimes, a bit of writers block preventing me from moving forward and I hear about the expansion. The thought of a recrafted old world piqued my interest and upon reading up on the rest of the changes; I dare say that I may be a little excited.

 

After checking out a few (bad) freeshards, I'm impressed that WoW still remains the best performing MMORPGs... Well, not really. Let's face it, the competition for blizzard in this market has been laughable at best; regardless - it was refreshing to have [b]basic[/b] things like abilities actually TRIGGER when you hit them (LOL AOC), melee skills you can use while moving (LOL Aion), and a clean - well performing engine (lol WAR). Now here I sit, wallet in hand wondering whether or not to just grab WOTLK from blizzards website and jumping in... wishing I didn't squander my WOTLK free trial months ago. (I was too lazy to install it). This expansion announcement has been a bit of a curse.

 

Cliff Notes (Retard edition)

Cataclysm hype makes me feel like giving the game another shot

Left game in TBC because of crappy arena and blizzard thinking New Gear = new content, also; lack of new pvp content

Two part question, one part self serving : Has this happened to anyone else? - Should I even bother at this point?

haha m8 the exact same thing happened to me. :P

i have played a small part of WoW when TBC released, tried to focus on arena when my raiding career got swept away and that failed (i hate arena). When Wotlk released i picked it up  charged for 80 played it for 2 months with all dungeons etc (heroic) still being hard and then quited again only having seen naxxrammas (sweet memories from back when i was 60) and obsidian sanctum.

Now Cataclysm has been anounced. Revamp of Azaroth in a terible way destruction of a lot of things i knew and cherished. Worgen as a playable race! YES YES YES :) how can u not love it... and last bot not least Death Wing has returned. Being the semi-lore junky i am characters like illidan and death wing have me intrested. Those characters wich are known all over the lands. to Defeat those characters is awsome.

another thing wich spiked my intrest is rated BG's thank god blizzard have you finaly noticed that not evryone likes arena;s that we want to PvP for fun in a chaotic setup, now they only have to destroy resilience on gear and make changes to the damage on players so that a tank can actually be in Tankgear and be very tough to kill..

So yes i now find myself playing again, catching up to whatever i missed so to say.  and with apearantly alot of people on the server still knowing me there is no problem in getting back into the fray.

You know with the EQ series (EQ1 EQOA and EQ2) you actually feel your playing in a world.

waay back ive stared with my first 3d MMO EQOA it felt awsome havnt felt anything like it in any 2d MMO but that feeling stayed. It stayed with me during the entire game, With any new area i arrived init felt immense and alive when returning to those areas day after day they became smaller i know evry corner and tree but still the world felt alive.

With WoW i had the same feeling in new area's but this feeling did not linger like in EQOA. a while back i quited WoW forgood and started playing EQ2. And geus what even those the EQ2 settings are 1000+ years in the future from EQOA the world felt really alike i felt at home. The EQ series makes you feel your in a difrent world all together. WoW has this asswell but only for a short while. To my suprise i only felt thise feeling in 1 more game, Warhammer online, when i first logged i felt like i was on a battlefield and that feeling stayed for the short time i have played. ( I truelly believe that warhammer can become a great game with some changes)

Anyway with so many MMO's out today, The sense of actually being in a world is still a very rare thing.

Originally posted by eclipse2g

Originally posted by Waterlily

Originally posted by Nadril
SNIP

Well, you just jump all over the place with conclusions and absolutes. Modernising the industry or using new technology doesn't equate to better gameplay. 

EQ wasn't more difficult because of "technological limitations", EQ was harder because in most cases it forced you to group and forced you to be social. You learned to put others first and help your group, guild and friends first instead of me me me. It required coordination, it required teamwork, something I don't seem to find anymore in current MMO.

Not everyone liked that, that's right. Many players complained about epics, many complained about grouping, but for every person who hated it, there were 10 who loved it.

You're also wrong when you say:

"There weren't strategies detailing everything you needed to know."

Which game do you think was responsible for sites like Allakhazam? It was made as a guide for EQ.

EQ didn't have any real add-ons. Unless you count ShowEQ as an add-on, which it never was, it belongs in the hacking category since it showed you loot and spawn points. Yes EQ has parsers, I've never been fond of them, but what you're gonna do.

A lot of what you say doesn't make any sense.

 

 

You hit the nail right on the head.  EQ had what makes MMOG's special.  The forced grouping, huge raid forces, and inability to do anything for yourself fostered community.  With how easy today's mmo's are noone builds social networks or even feels like they should at least act like a human being.  People act like total degenerates because rep doesn't matter anymore.  Even if 99% of the server hates you, if you still have your 12 friends you can get things done.  Noone helps anyone else anymore.  In EQ I used to give rezzes, information, quest help, etc... And many of those newbies I helped became friends and helped me out down the line after they had leveled up. 

These days I barely know anyone in or out of my guild.  Its all about phat loots and "what can you do for me".  Sad really...  I miss being able to say "I play because I enjoy spending time with my friends".

hello people wich actually have a clue :)
WTB the old day of EQOA back. The days where u would assist a random person wich was about to die. Why you ask ? cauz dieing sucked. Death penalty's where huge and by saving a person and therefor possibly 3 hours+ of his time leveling hewould be really grateful. This and whats posted above made for friendly community's because you just did not have the time to assrant around like in today's MMO.

MMO's are all about acomplishing things, when you are done playing you should feel like you did a good job with whatever you did. Like WoW used to be before expansions. People had to work for a single goal within the 40 man's and when u defeated that voss you would be really happy, unlike now wich when you defeat a boss youl have to chalange him on a slightly harder setting... how much more repatative can u get?

Someday guys at some point designers will wake up and make a MMO wich forces the community to actually be a community again, where the entire gameplay is yet again chalengeing and where assrant's are non-existing.

Originally posted by vardar

is buying TSO better, or just download the free trial and pay the subscription first, then once you reach the TSO part go and buy it??

its better to go buy the TSO expansion box. Within the Box is not only TSO, it holds the original game + all the previous expansion packs and adventure packs.

At leats it should hold evrything. check the box to be certain.

ive only played it a few times but lots of roleplay and decent combat here and there is fine for me. heck we even roleplayed in combat.

My party was fightign this big vampire kind of guy wich they finaly struck down when i was stuck in a cave somewhere. when i finnally got out i spotted the battle going on and rushed to it. I did not know he was already down andwas about to be questioned.  The combat loving Dwarf fighter that i was i charged in and cleaved my axe in his chest with a big grin on my face :), it diddnt work well for the party XD.  my dwarf acted on a kill first ask questions later concept :D.

anyway ive played both styles, one with alot of stuff to figure out and one with dragons and golems and what not. a mix of the 2 is best i think. also making your party out of people who in general dont go well like elves and dwarvens can be fun :)

1 mabey a crappy one but one of my most memorizable. When EQOA just launched i sat on top of a hill and watched the sun go down. wich was so beautifull.

2 some betetr ones now. WoW in the early days pre expansion. Server Bladefist, We got a report of a massive Horde raid traveling trough the arathi highlands and went towards the wetlands. an obvious attack on IronForge. We the alliance gathererd on the top of the hill in front of the gate where we lined up preparing to stand our ground. (300+ allaince orso and i think that number goes for horde asswell) when the horde arived evryone dismounted and then the server went.  gggghh  ghhheer ghrrrehh and it died :P

3 WoW again :P Arathi basin battleground premade vs premade me a tank in half AQ half Dreadnaught tanking gear got swarmed by about 5 horde and that number increased rapidly on the blacksmith flag. my premade teamw as capping  the goldmine and told me to sit tight and hope they would still be in time. and they where. when all the horde showed up most where trying to cap the flag wich i disrupted. and more of em started coming capign and attacking me. The whole episode lasted 2 minutes with about 10 horde rampaging on the flag and me. i in the end died. when the team arived (healer was jsut a second too late) but we kept the flag and won that shit :)

4 EQOA as str sta based paladin pulling a entire mine of minotaurs (some 40+ creatures) and keeping them on me. crazy battles those where:P

5th i gues i can think of another WoW but this one is better i gues. EQOA without expansion.  level 50 max no CM's. Our server decided to attack the avatar of fear. This guy oneshots whatever it hits basicly :P but so we went with about 200 people to his chamber, we couldnt even see half the players because of the  visibility limit. WE pet pulled him and pets where dieing one after another. then ofc tanks agroed him, and he basicly went as a raging ball of fury trough all the people there. until he got to me.. he somehow glitched and was hitting me for only 1000 damage. (i had about 6k hp roughly). we did not down him. healers wernt expecting anyone to active outlive his fury so they forgot to heal. perfect chanse to kill him wasted. but. it was fun to do anyway.

i have to put in a 6th :P Zombie outbreak pre wotlk launch . The chaos the death zombies evrywhere. ahha i had fun XD

MMO player.

im not gonna wait and hype myself up for a new MMO, most wont have what it takes anyway.

my MMO history is 3 years of eqoa 3 years of wow a few months active in eq2 now and ive played about any MMO around to test it and see whats up.

eqoa was my first 3d mmo and it spoiled me abit, but that enviroment and the feel of the game was tremendously awsome evrything there was a chalange and staying alive was crucial because if u died you would be setback at leats 8 hours of leveling on the higehr levels, things where a chalange. wich brings me to EQ2 wich imo is equal as good. it got abit less hard in terms of death and xp penalty but you need to group up to get stuff done wich is what a MMO is all about.

WoW ive been a raider pre tbc did all bosses was very active in PVP asswell and life was great. TBC hits the enviroment got an upgrade i liked what they did with most of the zones but the raiding got abit worse. most bosses where less chalenging then what was fought before exept a few (about 1 per dungeon). woltk the enviroment the lore the mobs evrything was so awsome but on the other side evrything got worse. class balance wich used to be the best in a game died in wotlk. raiding got even more easy wich is retarded (for people who have been in another thread and regocnize this, i want to say that the achievments are jsut optional you have the option to do stuff the hard way instead of having a boss be ahrd like it should.  its retarded). PvP arena system evrything failed.

So now, im playing EQ2 abit on the casual side but trying hard to get up with the bigger guys. enjoying the enviroment the feeling of the game wich imo the EQ series has been unrivaled at.

like i said above a new MMO, no thank you unless you can create a world wich is exactly a world wich feels like something difrent then any other game (Warhammer has succeeded in doing this at leats in the greenskin/dwarven areas.)

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by xeniar

 

youve said exactly what i wanted to say.

the achievments are meaningless its show to show your epeen to other players. and with a good grind most of em are not a chalange

the brutal gladiator. m8 let me tell you that me as a PVE prot warrior almost had the gladiator title season 1 (i was off by a few), yes things have changed now i know that but its not a chalange.

people with brutal gladiotor stuff have: no job, too much time on their hands, good gear, and are concentrated enough not to fuck up shit. and alot of luck is also a part of PvP (you cannot control absolutely evry aspect of the whole fight)

 

Vanila WoW was hardcore PVE we had to do bosses night after night after night.

in tbc it went down hill with a few walls here and there. raids now are nothing. the difrent achievment settings are a aim then but as far as i know most of the guilds on my server now have completed alot of it. so your server m8 must be bullshit.

 

No you are wrong . DEAD wrong.

The Raid achievements have NOTHING to do with grind.

They only have to do with group skill. Like nobody may die or downing Sart with 0. 1, 2 or 3 dragons up.

So wrong.

So tell me: what do you think is more difficult to program. 8 different ways in dificulty to down a boss (and reward it accordingly AND see to it that the vast majority doesn't succeed or just designing a boss that can be downed ?)

---

I laugh at your PvP remark. I am not speaking of the Gladiator title: given to the upper 0.5% of the rated PvP players (which is kinda hard).

I am talking of the Brutal Galdiator title, only given to the TOP player of the 20 server ladder rated system.

That's still a LOT harder isn't it?

And where do YOU stand in the PVE/PVP titles? Not very far I would think... Easy yes, if you want to think the old gameplay that having epics is the goals of the game.

Well mate you ain't playin' the hardcore if you ain't got the titles or dragons to prove it.

raid achievments take group skill. yes  but it used to take even group skills to down a boss  wich now is just a laugh.

u know me as a raider was able to say OMG we killed nefarian as third guild back in the day wich was omfg hardcore because only a few guilds got the chanse to do it that fast. now i have to do the same thing over and over with 1 added dificulty wich makes it alot harder.. jeej.. id rather want a boss wich is already on that highest level and then down it.  id give much more credit for that.

The brutal gladiator tittle. wow look your team has won 1 more game then our team  now you get the title and we dont. boohoo..

Where do i stand in PVE titles. well i dont have a tittle but u know what i can say, i had a full set of Might Wrath and almost a full set of Dreadnaught. i have MainTanked every boss pre-tbc and yes i killed them all pre any nerf patch.

My PvP title ive done my share of BG gridnign with the honour system could ahve went for rank 14 but diddnt because i got bored for 2 weeks after grinding 3 weeks non stop. as a PROTECTION warrior. and as ive stated before as a PRotection favoured tank ive almsot had the Gladiator title season 1

so m8 i do have the Title's, i bear the scars, but hey blizzard diddnt had this nifty system yet wich gave you dragons and whatnot back in the day.

The basic downing of bosses is easy mode. The achievements - getting the REAL status prices - are hard modes.

Or would you say that MMORPG's are not about prestige and honor to show off ?

Getting an achievement or title/show off piece in a guild these days is hard work and every fun when it "bumps" up.

the basic downing on a mob was hard in the old days it would be better to have that return and then make achievements on top of that.

then i would be impressed with peopel getting them.

Originally posted by arimer

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by xeniar

no game competes with WoW because the WoW audience are easymode basterds.

EQ2 is too hard for them to be playign they would get confused trying to find the mobs they need to kill, and they would whine because the have a experience penalty in death.

not gonna make other comparisons you guys catch my drift anyway.

Yes im a ex-WoW player and ive quit because blizzard has made content too easy nowadays and evrything is unbalanced (no plans of returning...)

Dura Dwarf warrior Outland EU

 

The fact that nobody could even do the achievement lists 5 months after launch (out of those 5 million players), shows that the challenge in the end game of Wow is fucking hard.

Show me another game where only 1 team of 2, 3 or 5 persons get the Brutal Gladiaor title in a rated ladder based PvP out of 200.000 players (20 servers clustered). Being Brutal Gladiator is a unique title on a server (and a lot of servers don't even have the title).

The same with PVE Raids these days.

Blizzard is the first mmorpg maker where some bosses are SCALED in difficulty, making for a very very small percentage to have the fantastic black or red dragons in its end game. Downing a boss on easy mode is to let everyone enjoy the scenery, but that's NOT the aim of the game anymore.

The aim now is prestige of downing them in a hard setting with all achievements up (like downing Sart has 8 different hard modes).

On my server only ... 0.3% of the Raiders could do all these Raid achievements. That's perhaps 0.01% of total players on a server.

Easy? Only for those not daring the difficult challenges in the Raid or PvP competitions....The others show off with their red and black dragons. Show me your armory and I'll laugh with the "easy" boosts.

No longer the gear is elite, it's the titles and mounts that do the shows these days. And everyone can look at the armory how poorly 99% of the people play. :)))

 

Wait?  So the point of raiding now and what decides its difficulty are optional achievements which give you nothing?   So your saying if a game made an achievement for a raid that was beat 90 bosses in 3 seconds which would be impossible, then it would therefore be the most challenging end game out there?    I'm sorry but that doesn't make any sense.
 

BAsed on numbers Since TBC the raids have gotten easier.  Look at vanilla wow, how many progressed, look at TBC slightly more did,  Now in northrend you have guilds full of retarded monkeys clearing every raid.

youve said exactly what i wanted to say.

the achievments are meaningless its show to show your epeen to other players. and with a good grind most of em are not a chalange

the brutal gladiator. m8 let me tell you that me as a PVE prot warrior almost had the gladiator title season 1 (i was off by a few), yes things have changed now i know that but its not a chalange.

people with brutal gladiotor stuff have: no job, too much time on their hands, good gear, and are concentrated enough not to fuck up shit. and alot of luck is also a part of PvP (you cannot control absolutely evry aspect of the whole fight)

Vanila WoW was hardcore PVE we had to do bosses night after night after night.

in tbc it went down hill with a few walls here and there. raids now are nothing. the difrent achievment settings are a aim then but as far as i know most of the guilds on my server now have completed alot of it. so your server m8 must be bullshit.

no game competes with WoW because the WoW audience are easymode basterds.

EQ2 is too hard for them to be playign they would get confused trying to find the mobs they need to kill, and they would whine because the have a experience penalty in death.

not gonna make other comparisons you guys catch my drift anyway.

Yes im a ex-WoW player and ive quit because blizzard has made content too easy nowadays and evrything is unbalanced (no plans of returning...)

Dura Dwarf warrior Outland EU

ive got the trial and tried it but soon after i started up and went trough the tutorial my game and computer chrashed, blaming my adio software... anyone else had any problems with it?

thanks hroarbye for key btw :)

humz odd

we europeans do have it. http://camelot-europe.goa.com/en/bundle_war_daoc.htm

they actually do have a DaoC and warhammer combined sub .

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

Originally posted by xeniar

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

I do think quests should be completely different as well. Gear, well, I think their way of implementing gear is flawed. A system like D2's gear would be far superior to how MMO's typically do it. Give you gear that is basically part of your template - not just stat boosts. Get original with the bonuses, and allow people to have many options. Look at WoW's gear - its all different "sets" focused on a certain talent tree. Thats not variety, thats just a ramp of skill. In D2, a piece of gear in the same slot could give u many things in different ways. Want more DPS? You can get +damage gear, or u can raise your +skills to equate to damage, or you can raise your elemental damage, or go for crushing blows, or use gear that actually gives you skills you dont currently have trained, or even that you cant normally train. Have gear that gives you spell effects you wouldnt get otherwise. Gear SHOULD mean SOMETHING... but it shouldnt just be a boost of your stats. It should be focused on something (not focused on a little of every stat) and it should work with your template. Notice how D2 templates actually involved full gear sets and optional pieces? MMO's dont have any of that.

 

so how is what you are describing not a boost of your stats? you just narrowed it down to one stat per item, whats the difrence? WoW stat gear doesnt focus on a little of evry stat. It focus alot on the majority of stats wich are important for your role. tanking warriors alot of stamina, defense, shieldblock etc. for a DPS warriors Strenght en agility dominates to give you your damage boost. its exactly the same as what u suggest, only thing is u focus on 1 stat wich will be meaningless unless that statchange affects your char hugely.

 

If you dont understand the difference, you obviously never played D2.

Just check some of the templates for that game and look at the links to gear they have. It is a HUGE difference.

i dont think you understand me.
 

stats are stats no matter how you impliment them on gear, the only thing wich can be difrent about them is how big of a affect it is on your character

Originally posted by SpyridonZ

I do think quests should be completely different as well. Gear, well, I think their way of implementing gear is flawed. A system like D2's gear would be far superior to how MMO's typically do it. Give you gear that is basically part of your template - not just stat boosts. Get original with the bonuses, and allow people to have many options. Look at WoW's gear - its all different "sets" focused on a certain talent tree. Thats not variety, thats just a ramp of skill. In D2, a piece of gear in the same slot could give u many things in different ways. Want more DPS? You can get +damage gear, or u can raise your +skills to equate to damage, or you can raise your elemental damage, or go for crushing blows, or use gear that actually gives you skills you dont currently have trained, or even that you cant normally train. Have gear that gives you spell effects you wouldnt get otherwise. Gear SHOULD mean SOMETHING... but it shouldnt just be a boost of your stats. It should be focused on something (not focused on a little of every stat) and it should work with your template. Notice how D2 templates actually involved full gear sets and optional pieces? MMO's dont have any of that.

so how is what you are describing not a boost of your stats? you just narrowed it down to one stat per item, whats the difrence? WoW stat gear doesnt focus on a little of evry stat. It focus alot on the majority of stats wich are important for your role. tanking warriors alot of stamina, defense, shieldblock etc. for a DPS warriors Strenght en agility dominates to give you your damage boost. its exactly the same as what u suggest, only thing is u focus on 1 stat wich will be meaningless unless that statchange affects your char hugely.

well what i liked really was WoW pre expansion

pre BG's outdoor was awsome and when BG's where implemented you could still find outdoor brawls here and there (wich was great). If it would have a added siege flavor like in warhammer (diffrently tho) then i think id be happy.

PvP back then was blanced evryone had his or her part to do and even tanks could be used in PvP (i know we did shit damage back then but, annoying the hell out of people trying to grab flag's was a good satisfaction. (also seeing 7 people hacking and casting away with little affect was fun :) ))

Gear will always be a factor in PvP. You work hard to get the gear and it benefit's you. Yes casual people will whine with that but a MMO issn't created with the casual in mind (ussually)

just my two cents i guess