Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by AzurePrower

The game has been in production since probably before 2007. So far we've seen mediocre class skills, generic fantasy world shots and pretty much lacking the demonstration of how their persistent world is going to work out.

 

Now that is blatantly false, they've shown plenty on how the persistent world will work out.

To AzurePrower,

Just because you haven't seen something doesn't mean it does not exist. 

You should probably do 10 minutes of research (or 50 minutes) before posting a thread like this, just to get your facts straight.

I completely respect your right to have an opinion, but you are basing your opinion off of false and/or outdated information which makes your opinion have no credibility.

Either that or you just did it on purpose to start an argument.

Originally posted by Xondar123

Originally posted by Khrymson

Yeah, your complaint is severely flawed, as the Empire is not really evil, they are just highly driven with a lust for power and will do anything to get it. 

Uh yeah, actually the Empire is objectively evl, and I really hope Bioware doesn't back away from this basic fact.

I guess you haven't read this.

Originally posted by Distopia

Originally posted by Dionysus187

Originally posted by Dameonk

Besides the fully voiced storyline the rest of the game is an homage to WoW.

Raiding and instanced PvP with generic WoW-style combat is what they are hoping you will do once the story is over.

This pretty much sums it up. WoW with focus on storyline and typical Star Wars stuff (blasters, droids, lightsabers, etc).

 I get so sick of reading the word WOW. When will Blizz fans realize there's more to this genre than WOW? The combat isn't WOW combat, it's typcial MMO combat.

No, it's actually not.  The GDC/skill cooldown timer/fast energy regen combat was first introduced by Turbine in AC2 which Blizzard stole and improved upon.  So technically it would be AC2 combat, but since that game was cancelled people such as my self refer to this style of combat as WoW-style combat because that is where it first became popularized.  Every game before WoW did not use this style of combat.

Calling it generic (i'm going to assume, you say that because it's been done), is like saying BF3 will have generic FPS combat. If you don't like turn based combat, why are you even into MMORPGs to begin with?

Ah, turn based combat.  I get it.  Except, I don't agree with you.  Dozens of MMO games do not have combat that resembles WoW as closely as TOR does.  UO, AC, EvE, EQ1, AO, AoC, SWG, BP, and CO just to name a few have a very different feel to combat than WoW. 

I also get really sick of reading opinions from people who obviously do not like the genre to begin with.

I think you are missplacing your aggression a little here.  I am a fan of SWTOR, I've already invested over $300 into the game and there's not even a solid release date for it.  I am, however, not a blind fanboy and I have assesed hours of beta footage and actually had a chance to play the game myself.  The combat is closer to the "feel" of WoW than any other MMO game on the market right now except maybe LOTRO. 

The actual mechanics are closer to the way CoX works, but it doesn't "feel" like CoX when I played it, it felt like WoW. 

What I don't understand is why that's a bad thing in your eyes?  WoW has great combat and so does SWTOR.  Arguably the best in the MMO genre.  Personally I prefer LOTRO in overall gameplay, but I recongize that WoW has superior combat.

Go play action games if that's what you want, diablo comes to mind or torchlight. If all you want is action combat MMO's aren't for you. I'm sorry turn-based combat is one of the foundations of an MMORPG, if it's not your thing, MMO's aren't your thing.

Funny that you can take one comment I made and extrapolate an entire game library from it.  The Diablo comment was especially amusing as I have not liked any Blizzard game ever released in their entire history.  There have always been much better alternatives already on the market or that were released around the same time.  I much preferred Baldur's Gate/NWN around the time Diablo/Diablo 2 were popular. 

Torchlight was OK, but only held my interest for a few hours.  I'm just not a fan of those types of games.  On the other hand I've put well over 400 hours into LOTRO, not including beta gameplay time.

Comments like the above show you only played an MMORPG to jump on the bandwagon when it became popular.  You had no stake in the genre, or love for it, you just liked playing with other people.

Since you seem to want to create a fantasy of who I am I will tell you a little about my gaming history.

I've actually been playing MMO games since before they were called MMO games (1994-1995 approx.).  I've played every MMO game to be released in North America that cost money to purchase or play.  I absolutely hate what WoW did to this genre and how stagnant it has become over the last 7 years and I have not stuck with a game, besides LOTRO, for more than a month or two. 

Despite that I still harbor a love for this genre due to the incredible games that were released before WoW and I still hope that some day the genre will get out of the rut it has been in and we will get another online world to explore instead of just the current string of assembly line single-player games that can sometimes be played with other people.

It seems that games like SWTOR and GW2 are moving in the right direction but I think it will still be years before we see games that are more than cleverly hidden skinner boxes show up again.

I prefer to be able to type and communicate while I play an MMORPG, Turn-based combat allows that, it's about strategy rather than action. I can get action anywhere if I want it, that's why there are other genre's!!!!!

I'm not really sure what this last part has to do with Dionysys or my comments.  WoW definitely does not have any faster paced combat than SWTOR does.  I mean, their GDC is exactly the same, so in reality, they are exactly evenly paced so I'm a bit confused by this last statement.

Try learning about the person you are quoting before making wild accusations.  You just come off sounding silly when you have no idea who you are talking to.

Originally posted by nagennif

This is the problem that all MMOs more or less, share.

Nothing you do makes a difference to the world, because the world is persistent.

People go from game to game and what do they do? They grind instances, to get more gear. Your power isn't yours. Your power in in your sword or your shield or your staff or your clothing. You're not powerful, you're a coat rack for power.

The only way to put heroic fantasy back into the MMO genre is to do it with story.

I get there aren't enough choices, but when I'm playing a character, I choose the best choice and move on.

Sure it's a problem, I agree. But it's a problem, at this point in time, without a programming solution, so I've gone and made my own personal solution. 

I took some snippets from your post, I don't believe I lost any context with the way I quoted you, nagennif.

I just wanted to point out that the issue you seem to have with the MMO genre was actually solved by a game, and that game didn't even have a storyline.

Oh, and it was done 14 years ago.  UO had a persistent world, just like every other MMO game, but you could also change a very large part of that world.  Player interaction was the driving focus of the game and everyone playing UO made decisions every day based on other players, not on pre-programmed game systems.

If you don't understand what I mean here are a few comparisons between the way games are designed today and the way UO worked.

1. There is a graveyard due north of the one of the most popular cities in the game.  The game is full of skeleton mobs.

New games: You get a quest to go kill the mobs, since it is right outside of a main city they are really low level mobs.  You kill 10 skeletons, turn in the quest, and never return to the graveyard for any of the other 400+ hours you play the game.

UO:  No quests for the graveyard but PKers built houses right outside of the guard protected area of the graveyard and killed noobs that didn't know any better when they would stumble too far north hunting skeletons that dropped bone armor (a popular armor choice for new players as it offered OK protection and could be obtained by killing mobs).  Anti-PKers would battle with the PKers and almost any hour of the day you could find fights going on in and around the graveyard area.  There were hundreds of hours of enjoyment gleaned from just this one small part of the world.

2.  There is a cave where dragons live. 

New games: This area is most likely instanced, so you get your pre-made group together and then venture into the cave, kill some dragons and get their epic armor loot, equip it, then never return to the cave again. Oh, unless someone else needs some epic dragon armor.

UO:  You go solo into the dragon cave whre there are other people.  Maybe they're friendly, maybe they're PKers.  Either way, you're wanting to tame dragons, so you recall to a different area where dragons live and find that no other players are there.  You lure one of the dragons away from the others and after a long hard fought battle manage to bend him to your will.

You then take that dragon to one of the main cities of the game where many people people travel to because they know the best armorsmith in the game sells there every night.  So you set up an area with your different tamed creatures on display and sell them to players without the talent or skill to tame their own rare creatures such as dragons and nightmares.  This is your chosen way to make an income because these rare creatures are worth a good amount of gold and you are saving up to buy a 2-story house that you plan on building next to a beautiful lake you found while adventuring out in the wilderness.

So, this is a pretty long post and I do have a point.

My point is that a changing not entirely-persistent world has been done before, a long time ago.  UO was 95% governed by the will of the players, not by arbitrary static world rules set by the developers.

Game companies could make a game like UO again, if they wanted.  But it's a lot harder work to build a world than it is to make a game that herds the players through the content. 

Until we, the consumers, stop paying for the uninspired stale crap that has been the staple of this genre since WoW was released we will never see anything like UO again.

Originally posted by Metentso

Only Siths preorder, they dont' have patience or virtue.

I've been trying to figure out why I preordered TOR for the last few weeks, now I know the answer.

Thanks!

I've had better.

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Story alone, may push a Movie/book/singleplayer game,  but not a MMORPG. IMO,,, too much story focus, causes detachment from character and player.

Besides the fully voiced storyline the rest of the game is an homage to WoW.

Raiding and instanced PvP with generic WoW-style combat is what they are hoping you will do once the story is over.

Well, I believe since there is a free trial, it is free to play during the trial.

So maybe that's their reasoning?  You are correct that once the trial is over there is a monthly fee.

Originally posted by jpnz

I find it hard to believe anyone following SWTOR would not know what SWTOR is. They were up-front from the word go.

'KOTOR3 with MMO mechanics.'

I completely agree with this statement.  It is KOTOR 3. 

Think about playing KOTOR, the loading, instancing, closed off/unexplorable planets, purely black and white moral choices during the story, etc.

Only this time the combat system isn't unique, it's a direct copy of WoW.  Oh and some of the game is multiplayer.

If you haven't played KOTOR for years, go back and give it another whirl and you'll know what to expect in SWTOR.

Please don't get the wrong idea from this post.  I've preordered my copy, my wife's copy, and 3 of our close friends are all waiting for the release of this game.  We are Star Wars fans, but we are also not delusional fanboys that thing SWTOR will be more than it is.

Before you ask, I have first hand knowledge of how the game plays and 2nd hand knowledge for the rest of my analysis.

Originally posted by Z3R01

I think people are being way too picky

You're probably right.   And if you asked me specifically to point out things that are wrong with the animations I could only tell you it's the limited attack animations and the reactionary animations moving into attack animations not flowing at all.  Other than that there's just something that's off about the animations in my opinion.  I can't put my finger on it, but when actually playing the game it's way more apparent than watching videos.

Originally posted by Nickcs

With your thread & statements in mind, i have to ask - Troll?

I'm not really sure why you would think I'm a troll.  I've been to a few conventions and have seen live footage of the game.  Not the staged trailers that have been released by Bioware.

One thing is the style of animations, were one will prefer the other over another. But character & combat animations in SWTOR are nothing near what you claim it to be, infact id say its excactly the opposite. How about you take a look at the youtube links in the thread - and perhaps you will realize it really aint all that you claim it to be.

Well here's some raw gameplay footage, not the "cinematic" style youtube videos posted earlier in the thread.  You also should keep in mind that I didn't say the animations were terrible in my OP, just that they were subpar.  I think they are OK currently, but I'm not sure OK is good enough any more (my opinion, of course).  One thing that I left out of my OP is that there is 0 variety in the combat animations, which also makes it feel very stale.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRenIc7YegQ&feature=related

Could you link where you find the info regarding the small planets & small explorable areas? Id very much like to read up on that. Besides with 17 planets ready at launch i believe there should be more then plenty of content to start out with.

You can disregard that part, I was only making a statement based on my feelings of the game, I cannot discuss this.  I will say though that I'm sure there will be plenty of story content, but I'm not so sure there will be much explorer-type content.

I guess my 2 cents are im very much content with the animations in SWTOR. How everything else pans out in SWTOR is left to be seen - but im feeling optimistic.

That's great that you are happy with the animation quality, I am not. 

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Could you author an open letter to Bioware to not restrict the games release to only North America and selected European Territories also ? because they do not seem to be listening.

I didn't realize that was happening.  That sucks, you can't even buy the digital version?

I don't post many threads.  I'm content replying to other's posts and staying on the sidelines on most debates.  But I really, really do not understand Bioware's reasoning for having such subpar character animations.

This is one area that every MMO game to be released since WoW has really missed on and it doens't appear that SWTOR will be any different; despite their repeated assurance that polish is one of their big focuses.  I can't think of a more glaring flaw in a game's "polish" than when your character's movements do not look right.

WoW's character animations are fluid, natrual, and clean.  SWTOR's animations are stiff, ugly, unnatrual, and choppy.

I can get past the small planets (explorable areas are quite small on most planets), cartoony art direction, companions that are far less robust than traditional Bioware companions, and generic WoW-copied combat.  The one thing that I cannot seem to look past is the animations. 

I simply cannot understand why they would put so much money in to this game and then fall short on such a basic requirement to compete with WoW.

So please, Bioware, do a complete overhaul on the character and combat animations, before it's too late.

Eh... yet another game NCSoft will shut down 6 months after release.

Originally posted by thanoskkk

dont you have the option to buy those from the auction house as well? Doesnt sound like pay to win then.

 

I believe stat tomes are in-game, but extremely rare.  Not that it really matters, you don't NEED anything that they sell in the Turbine store.

All content that is available in the game does not need any items purchased from the store to complete.

People spouting that LOTRO is now "Pay2Win" don't seem to understand what that phrase means.  I'm guessing to them any advantage at all (in PvE) somehow translates to "cannot do without".  I've been a lifetime subscriber to LOTRO since day 1.  I have 3 level 65 characters, I have no trouble completing any content that I wish to do, and I have never spent a dime of my money in the store.

Originally posted by Sulaa

My one of last hope is ArcheAge.

I've seen gameplay videos, it doesn't look promising.

The only game I'm currently looking forward to is GW2. It's not because of the hype or promises by AE or any of the features or classes that have been announced.  It's because GW2 is the only game I have ever watched a 40 minute gameplay video of and actually enjoying the whole thing.  Hell, I can barely get through a 30 second clip of SWTOR without getting bored.

Originally posted by Akiye

Im sorry but mmos and well games in general have always given you paths to take. You choose which path to go. Game has raids doesnt mean you have to raid. Game has pvp doesnt mean you have to pvp.

While this statement is true, it is not realistic.

In WoW, what else is there to do at end-game besides PvP or raid?  What other content does that game have to do for people who are max level?  Not a whole lot of content unless you want to RP and creating your own content.

In UO there was no "raiding" or quests to do, but even at 7xGM status there was still enough content to last for years, even for hardcore players.  There was no need to make things up, content was a part of the world.  You could tame dragons, search for rare ore, become a great weaponsmith unrivaled by anyone else on the server.  You could create malls, be a real estate agent, sell marked runes to exotic locations, be a deep sea fisher, be a pirate, etc.  The possibilities were near limitless back then.

The big difference between these two is that UO was a virtual world while WoW is just a game.

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

A lot of one eyed Fanbois are apparently voting Yes and the people voting no are not necessarily haters.

The game is not revolutionary, what it is doing is taking all the tried and true & popular MMO mechanics and perfecting them which there is nothing wrong with and which will probably guarantee a fairly successfull title.

But there is really nothing in SWTOR that is revolutionary.

Except for character animations, apparently.  With those they were happy to regress back to the days of EQ.

Starwarsnut, I'm having a really hard time following your posts due to the odd way you are quoting other people.  So I'm just going to respond to everything here.

F2P people have to spend money if they want more than what's offered by the free content.  That's the whole point.  If you want more than free, it costs money.  Not sure why that's a problem for you considering you are a subscriber?

PvMP has always been broken, if you were really in beta you would know that that part of the game was just thrown in right before release to apease all of the people complaining that there was no PvP.  LOTRO was never a PvP game.

If you don't like the expansion content, don't buy the expansions.

The Turbine Store is a little invasive for subscribers, I agree with you there, but I could care less what they sell in the store.  It doesn't affect me in any way how other people want to spend their money in a PvE game.

I've been playing LOTRO since closed beta and I have never had any graphical lag/stuttering issues.  When F2P first went live I did have network lag due to all of the people being on, but never any visual issues on any of the 4 completely different computers I've played the game on.  I'm only pointing this out that not everyone has this problem and is more likely due to a problem on the user end rather than the game.

You are not lying but you are presenting your opinions as truth, which is not much better than lying.

You keep going back and complaining about the store and that you have the option to "Buy it now".  I understand you don't like the store because people can buy potions that they can use in PvMP.  I really can't comment on this, because LOTRO is such a horrible PVP game in the first place, I don't really see how this can be such a big deal for you.  Other than that, I simply do not understand why you have such a big problem with how other people spend their money.

Turbine was going F2P long before WB came into the picture.

You have no idea the financial situation Turbine/LOTRO was in before the F2P release and future WB buyout.  Saying they were almost bankrupt is not based on any factual information.

It's funny that you say LOTRO is like the sims middle earth considering that's exactly what the game was supposed to be before WoW was released and Turbine changed their entire game design.

"Especially when the gm threatens to ban all of us or speaking about it in glff"  Why do I have a hard time believing you were simply speaking about it, and not bitching about it.  I had this happen to my raid group once, were were friendly and polite with the GM that came and he repopped a new chest and made sure we could loot it.  I can only guess why the GM wouldn't have helped you in the same way.