All Posts by earthhawk

Originally posted by SundersGhost

Originally posted by earthhawk

Originally posted by SundersGhost

Originally posted by earthhawk

^{For those of you who are not familiar with the P&PRPG genre let me inform you here; it has been dying and losing players by the thousands to online games. Wizards of the Coast did what they had to do; try to capture their player base that was been lost to MMOs. The only reason I play MMOs is due to the fact that I can longer get a group of 5 adults together to play a P&P game anymore. Most of my friends have families and careers that prevent them from dedicating the amount of time that is needed to participate in a game, and I'm not even talking about the Dungeon Master, just the players.}

^{As a DM who never uses published adventures, as I prefer to write my own, it's almost like having a second job. I put in several hours a night crafting a story, creating characters, and producing storylines that my players may or may not use. On average I would say about 40 hours go into starting a new campaign. Most people who have grown up playing P&P dion't have that kind of time anymore, and this is where MMOs come into play.}

^{If you have never played in a P&P game then you are surely missing one of the best interactive expierences in gaming, period. The hard part is finding a good group of  players who play the game, but don't take it to serious. I welcome D&D back into the fold, and hope that it continues to push the envelope of gaming.}

Earth

 

 

This post made me chuckle.  WotC did not "Do what they had to do" in the least.  I must say, you must make an excellent DM, for you have one hell of an imagination!  All Wizards of the Coast did was try to cash in on a current market of online gamers by using a well known intellectual property name that they have rights to.  If they wanted to make a game patterned after MMO's they could have easily put together some hybrid rules, as they have done in the past, and stamp an original/new name on it.  Instead they took something that is known well, and cherished by many, and bastardized it.

I have dozens of friends who still make time to do TT gaming, OLD PnP style.  Not this new crap.  The reason WotC, and other similar gaming companies are losing players is not due to people gaming online.  It is due to their manufacture of inferior, and degenerating quality in their products.  I am an online MMO player of a LONG time, but I am still a role player.  I do not buy many new PnP products however because most are crap.  I will buy some, or read them over in the shop to see if I may enjoy, and am becoming increasingly discouraged.  The patterns of current gaming trends in the PnP world is on a decline.  Technology, and MMO's are not to at fault.  They have no one to blame but themselves. 

Thanks for responding, and yes I'll bite...

I've been running PnP games since I was 14 years old, I'm 34 now. That's 20 years of actual gaming; making my own adventures, characters and worlds. Let me guess; you've been playing MMOs for a long time, hence your post about PnP games. The reason why the genre (PnP)is losing players is due to the fact that the genre hasn't grown up with it's player base. There is no way in the 9 hells that you, who calls himself a PnP player, would chose an online MMO over a TT RPG? Get real bro; MMO in no way, shape or form, compare to the complexity, and imagination of PnP role playing.

How can someone who doesn't buy PnP games make a comparison that said games are crap? That's like saying all MMOs are crap, yet I don't buy MMOs... Again, a company MUST evolve with it's consumer, if it doesn't then it loses that consumer. D&D had to evolve with current gaming trends to keep up, hence, the combining of TTRPG and MMOs. Would you continue to buy the same car if it was produced with the same technology, 1908, that was used to make the Model T Ford when it first came out? I highly doubt it...

Sorry, but your argument holds no facts or validity. And yeah, my grammar sucks, so what.

 

Hmm, not sure you read my earlier post (Or this one for that matter) as I stated then that I have been playing PnP for quite a time.  No sense in me reposting my old post, so I won't.  Uhm, not sure where in this post I said I choose online MMO over TT RPG's either.  As I recall, I stated that I am both an MMO player AND a TT PnP player.  *Reads his post yet another time*  Yep, sure did! "I am an online MMO player of a LONG time, but I am still a role player"  there ya have it.  Further, I did not say I do not buy  PnP games.  I said I do not buy MANY of the NEW products as I find them to be crap.  I even clarified in case some idiot came along who tried to claim I have no foundation for my OPINION, by stating that before I make the decision to NOT buy those new products, I DO go into shops and read them over.  At that same time I even said I DO buy some.  Hmm, and you end by saying that MY argument holds no fact or validity?  You sir should not take my post so personally when you read the opening lines, and maybe read what I say before you try calling me out, or shooting me down.  You failed miserably.

To be clear for you, I DO play PnP TT games.  I DO write my own adventures.  In my many years I have not been one to rely on the premade adventures or modules that release.  I have several of them, for alternate loot tables they provided back during First ED and Second. 

Anyway, rather than take such a holier than thou position, step off your pedestal and don't be so quick to lash out.  It really is not needed.  You stated your opinion.  Great.  I stated mine.  And I stand by my very valid opinion that WotC was not "Doing what they had to" but rather were just out to make a quick buck.  Maybe instead of trying to flame me based on things you do not know, stick to the topic rather than trying to start a flame war?  Thanks.  Have a nice day. :)

 

Not trying to flame, but you didn't answer my question. Fair enough though, to each his own and all that jazz. Play what you play.
 

Earth

Originally posted by SundersGhost

Originally posted by earthhawk

^{For those of you who are not familiar with the P&PRPG genre let me inform you here; it has been dying and losing players by the thousands to online games. Wizards of the Coast did what they had to do; try to capture their player base that was been lost to MMOs. The only reason I play MMOs is due to the fact that I can longer get a group of 5 adults together to play a P&P game anymore. Most of my friends have families and careers that prevent them from dedicating the amount of time that is needed to participate in a game, and I'm not even talking about the Dungeon Master, just the players.}

^{As a DM who never uses published adventures, as I prefer to write my own, it's almost like having a second job. I put in several hours a night crafting a story, creating characters, and producing storylines that my players may or may not use. On average I would say about 40 hours go into starting a new campaign. Most people who have grown up playing P&P dion't have that kind of time anymore, and this is where MMOs come into play.}

^{If you have never played in a P&P game then you are surely missing one of the best interactive expierences in gaming, period. The hard part is finding a good group of  players who play the game, but don't take it to serious. I welcome D&D back into the fold, and hope that it continues to push the envelope of gaming.}

Earth

 

 

This post made me chuckle.  WotC did not "Do what they had to do" in the least.  I must say, you must make an excellent DM, for you have one hell of an imagination!  All Wizards of the Coast did was try to cash in on a current market of online gamers by using a well known intellectual property name that they have rights to.  If they wanted to make a game patterned after MMO's they could have easily put together some hybrid rules, as they have done in the past, and stamp an original/new name on it.  Instead they took something that is known well, and cherished by many, and bastardized it.

I have dozens of friends who still make time to do TT gaming, OLD PnP style.  Not this new crap.  The reason WotC, and other similar gaming companies are losing players is not due to people gaming online.  It is due to their manufacture of inferior, and degenerating quality in their products.  I am an online MMO player of a LONG time, but I am still a role player.  I do not buy many new PnP products however because most are crap.  I will buy some, or read them over in the shop to see if I may enjoy, and am becoming increasingly discouraged.  The patterns of current gaming trends in the PnP world is on a decline.  Technology, and MMO's are not to at fault.  They have no one to blame but themselves. 

Thanks for responding, and yes I'll bite...

I've been running PnP games since I was 14 years old, I'm 34 now. That's 20 years of actual gaming; making my own adventures, characters and worlds. Let me guess; you've been playing MMOs for a long time, hence your post about PnP games. The reason why the genre (PnP)is losing players is due to the fact that the genre hasn't grown up with it's player base. There is no way in the 9 hells that you, who calls himself a PnP player, would chose an online MMO over a TT RPG? Get real bro; MMO in no way, shape or form, compare to the complexity, and imagination of PnP role playing.

How can someone who doesn't buy PnP games make a comparison that said games are crap? That's like saying all MMOs are crap, yet I don't buy MMOs... Again, a company MUST evolve with it's consumer, if it doesn't then it loses that consumer. D&D had to evolve with current gaming trends to keep up, hence, the combining of TTRPG and MMOs. Would you continue to buy the same car if it was produced with the same technology, 1908, that was used to make the Model T Ford when it first came out? I highly doubt it...

Sorry, but your argument holds no facts or validity. And yeah, my grammar sucks, so what.

Originally posted by Finwolven

I'm just sorry for the poor bard. He seems to be gone, while Druids, Rangers, Monks and Barbarians need to wait for their own supplements. Hope you didn't play a bard in a campaign that's getting 'upgraded' to 4.0 by the DM. Or a Gnome Illusionist. Or a Half-Orc anything.

 

Don't be alarmed by the alarmist, he obviously hasn't read the 4th ed rules yet. You can easily convert your 3.5ed character to 4th edition. What this new addition does is take away all of the rules that were not needed. Now your group has room to "roleplay" without being hampered by too many rules. It reminds me of the Story Teller system for White Wolf games. Also, if your character is not represented in the new rule set just yet, then check out the D&D forums. I found a kick ass druid template that I can't wait to use.

I can totaly understand the reason why most groups don't want to conver to 4th editon. My suggestion is to play what you feel most comfoprtable playing. I got rid of my 3.5 books, and only kept Eberron which I plan to use for my game world. Again, no one is being forced to play or buy the 4th edition game. And let's be honest here; you could play for years and never use half of the 3.5 edition books that were printed.

Earth

Originally posted by uncus

4th Edition may be D&D, but it sure as hell isn't AD&D!  Wizards may have well just re-released the old Elf is a class/dwarf is a class original D&D.  Simple is fine for starting a game or playing with novices or children, but the complexity of AD&D is what made it fun - and it still required MORE rules because intelligent players came up with things not even close to covered by the rules.  DMing was a fulltime job! Miniatures and hex terrain made things better [as the online program may  in some respects - IFF it allows the DM to use whatever rules he wishes], as did programs like DMGenie, but characters had depth.

3rd Edition was dumbed down, 4th Edition is fully lobotomised!  No more D&D for me, thanks.

The most fascinating thing about P&P is the fact that you can "mod" the rules to fit YOUR game. MMOs don't allow you to do that at all. In fact, MMOs have dumbed down gaming in my opinion; once you find a strategy against a boss it ALWAYS works. On the other hand, you can't count on a recurring villian to use the same strategies in P&P, the DM won't allow it lol.

Originally posted by aka_mythos

4th edition, having tried it, feels like a mmorpg. It seems to me that they watered d20 down for the sake of making it easier to program into games. I enjoyed 3rd and 3.5, I found it better than 2nd edition; even though I thought 3.5 could get overly complicated at times 4th is overly simplified. My friends and I are sticking to 3.5. Maybe 5th will be better. PnP games though the inspiration for mmorpg, despite this odd co-mingling, they really are two separate entities.

All the web utilities really could have been done for 3rd its really about time. I really don't know if 4th will bring anything to the table. Most independent developers want to continue working with 3.5, mostly because its establish but also because 4th ed isn't free for them to make modules for. Bye bye open gaming license.  All that said you have to question what will come out of 4th that benefits the players.

Games must evolve to keep their player base interested, AND bring new players to the table (so to speak). Example: Rifts (by Palladium Books): best setting in P&P, but the rules havnet changed in 20 years. So, players stop playing and stores stop stocking the games. D&D while I don't agree with 3 rule changes in less than 10 years, I can understand why. Evolve or become non existent, basic rule of the universe.

^{For those of you who are not familiar with the P&PRPG genre let me inform you here; it has been dying and losing players by the thousands to online games. Wizards of the Coast did what they had to do; try to capture their player base that was been lost to MMOs. The only reason I play MMOs is due to the fact that I can longer get a group of 5 adults together to play a P&P game anymore. Most of my friends have families and careers that prevent them from dedicating the amount of time that is needed to participate in a game, and I'm not even talking about the Dungeon Master, just the players.}

^{As a DM who never uses published adventures, as I prefer to write my own, it's almost like having a second job. I put in several hours a night crafting a story, creating characters, and producing storylines that my players may or may not use. On average I would say about 40 hours go into starting a new campaign. Most people who have grown up playing P&P dion't have that kind of time anymore, and this is where MMOs come into play.}

^{If you have never played in a P&P game then you are surely missing one of the best interactive expierences in gaming, period. The hard part is finding a good group of  players who play the game, but don't take it to serious. I welcome D&D back into the fold, and hope that it continues to push the envelope of gaming.}

Earth