Originally posted by nathanebht

Originally posted by mairic

I had two characters, one that was a weaponsmith and another that was a leatherworker. I was able to craft items that I was able to use almost constantly. And they were better than the ones I found as loot. Someone mentioned that you needed drop like, "vial of weak blood" and this might be true but I did find a way around it. If you crafted an Insignia and the hilt and blade of a weapon and then combined that into a new recipe, it crafts it for you and gives you the new recipe based on the insignia without needing the Vial of Weak Blood. It uses the insignia instead. 

I had to do it this way because for some reason the AH would not sell me any vials of weak blood but I was able to get my crafting up to about level 60 without (or barely having any) weak blood. 

 

 

Thanks for this info, Blood vials didn't drop much.

I didn't find inventory storage much of a problem. 8 slot bags were very easy to craft and teleporting wasn't too expensive.

Also, I think I got an Insignia from salvaging a green level weapon with a more expensive salvage kit.

 

Another thing worth mentioning is that your vault is account-wide.  So if one character has a lot of luck finding a certain component, your other characters can easily use that component.

And speaking of the vault, common crafting materials and cooking ingredients have collections as one of your vault tabs.  Each slot within the collection can hold more than one of that items.  So the regular crafting materials can be stored there without taking up vault space.  There's just no collection for uncommon ingredients, so things like the vial of weak blood do have to use standard vault space. 

I was really surprised that you didn't mention the progress bar when crafting.  It takes a lot less time to craft an item in general.  But the required time decreases for each item within your queue.  

In LotRO, if you want to refine 50 leather, for example, you might as well go walk the dog or pick up a book.  In GW2, it takes just a little longer to make 50 than it would take to make 1.  

That is such a HUGE relief to me!  I've long felt that whomever concocted the idea of drawn out progress bars forcing you to do nothing while you're supposedly playing should be shot.  It's nice to see that Arena Net thought the same thing.

Originally posted by fansede

I didn't play a force user in beta - do any of them have the ability to charm npcs?

Also I thought a neat power (and documented in the movies) is something like reveal (and cloud) a portion of the game map. Like the Emperor was able to cloud his identity until he was ready. Yoda /Anakin able to forsee the future.

Jedi have Force Persuade.  It's not an ability, per se but rather a conversation option that pops up now and then at appropriate times.  

Originally posted by cassina

First rule of pvp : there are no fair fights, if you give your target a fair chance you failed miserably at tactical planning of your attack

Unfortunately, in most cases it seems that said tactical planning consists solely of waiting until you're 20 levels above your victims.

I'm really torn.  For beta 5 I'm actually thinking of going really different from what I normally play in MMO's.  So a Beastmaster/Riftblade is kind of calling to me.  I definitely like the novelty of a melee pet class.  You don't see those often.

In previous betas, I found that just about any mage goes really well with a Chloromancer.  Far less squishy!  Elementalist/Chloro is pretty awesome because of how the mage can heal himself and the pet while still doing decent damage.

Originally posted by Oy-jord

There appear to be quite a few fans of Rift here, so it's a good place to ask.  How's the PvP?  DAoC RvR-like?  WoW's 2-faction BGs-like?  Instanced?  Consensual?  Open world?

 

Thanks!

It's only really arriving with this beta, so we'll have to see.  We know it's 2-faction like WoW.  There are BG's.  Players from the other faction can cross into your faction's territory (sort of like Aion, I guess), but it also sounds like you can flag yourself for PvP if you want to participate in that.  (This may only be on PvE servers, though.)  There's also PvP progression, sort of like in WAR.

A couple key differences, however:

1. PvE gear lets you be competitive in PvP and vice versa.  
2. A PvP soul is available for each archetype.  This soul has fewer talents and skills -- probably because it doesn't become available until quite a while after your PvE souls.

Originally posted by Myrdynn

this developer team is so insanely OP.  Even if the game isnt for you 100%, playing a game developed by this group, has got to be a top experience.  They are fully committed to making RIFT the top of the class.  The improvements, based on beta feedbacks is unreal.  I have never seen a company make so many gamewide improvements from beta 1 to launch as Trion does from beta to beta

So very true!

I'm used to closed beta coming around and a few things change here and there.  Then open beta arrives, and nothing changes except some bug fixing.  Between beta 1 and now, Rift has changed more than I've ever seen any other game do prior to launch.  And it's not because they're fixing all sorts of broken stuff, but because they're taking the solid concepts that they started with and modifying them based on player feedback.  

This is the first time, "it's only beta" might actually prove to be a truism rather than a way for devs and fanbois to feel good about their pet project's shortcomings.  Very refreshing!

I've seen a great many comments on this and other forums that mirror my own experience:  "meh" about beta 1,  surprised by beta 3 and now seriously looking forward to beta 5.  If only Sigil had taken the same development approach that Trion is!

Why are you folks harping back and forth about the gear score? Seriously?  It's just ironic to me that you are all jumping all over the author about that while completely overlooking the fact that the Shattering hasn't even happened yet and so what we have in the Barrens right now really can't be called the "new Barrens" at all.

Even a cursory examination of the most recent patch notes (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/patchnotes/patch4p01.html) show that 4.0.1 didn't do anything with the Barrens quests (or any other quests) while the Under Development page (http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/underdev/) lists the still to come 4.0.3 as being the patch that will change everything.

Yes, Mr. Fuller has shown he really doesn't know what he's talking about at this point.  But the gear score has nothing to do with that.

My personal favorite is the lost dwarves in Uldaman.  Many people don't realize that The Lost Vikings was one of Blizzard's earlier titles.

Another fun one is The 1 Ring.  http://thottbot.com/i8350

(Problem fixed.  Post deleted by author.)

I work for a software developer that recently gave away a free upgrade.  In fact, we've never yet charged for an upgrade.  When we released the new version, everything we wrote about it stated that it was a free upgrade.  

It's amazing the number of people who wrote asking how much the upgrade is, or stated that they weren't going to upgrade now because they couldn't afford it at this time.  I've had email correspondence where I stated that we needed to get them taken care of with their free upgrade to the new version -- only to have them reply inquiring how much it was going to cost. 

The same holds true for phone calls.  On more than one occasion I've spoken with people and had to state that the upgrade is free three or four times before they finally understand.  It's not just reading comprehension that's going out the proverbial window, but all comprehension.  Believe me when I say that working in customer support is depressing thanks to how dim one's opinion of humanity's future becomes.

Jon Wood was right about the impact of the internet, but I feel that this is only one of the factors contributing to the problem.  A second is certainly education.  The more schools have moved into the "no child left behind" mentality, the more they've found themselves teaching to the lowest common denominator rather than attempting to raise anyone to excellence.  Those at the bottom of the heap really haven't gained much while those who should be at the top become bored and lazy.  

The third factor is parents.  They have become less engaged in every way.  First, they are increasingly relying on schools to do the parenting for them -- while simultaneously removing all capacity for discipline.  Second, as a general rule they don't even bother to follow up and ensure that their children are receiving a solid education.  How many parents today even look at their children's homework?  How many fewer, upon seeing that a problem exists, bother to contact the teacher?  How many fewer still actually step in to help tutor their children and remedy the problem personally?

I also disagree vehemently with the person above who blamed things on a lack of post-secondary education.  Primary education is when reading comprehension should be taught.  Secondary education is when it should be reinforced.  Post-secondary education is for specialization; not for teaching fundamentals that should have been learned a decade earlier.  What's more the education we receive in secondary school today pales in comparison to what was taught in grade school just 100 years ago.   We seriously are dumbing down as a society and the pace is accelerating.

Originally posted by Nephaerius

I was previously unaware of healers having to actually target players with the reticle to cast heals.  That's pretty cool.  Stressful I'm sure, but cool.

 

It SOUNDS cool, but in practice it can get really annoying.  There was a similar system in Tabula Rasa.  If I remember right, that one even had a semi-smart targeting system that would try to help you target other players so that you could heal them.  It was NOT a lot of fun and drew plenty of complaints from those trying to play support classes.

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

Originally posted by Philby

Originally posted by erictlewis

Just wait unti this goes live and a lot of folks who dont have vip status find out they got to unlock quests they done before.

Not to mention the lifers when they find out that the "free" tokens they think they can use for future expansions arent even enough to pay for the patched in content they used to get free.

 

Conjecture .Wheres your facts ? I guess you must have some inside information non of us are privey too or could it be you just made it up off the top of your head .

Actually Turbine has already stated that the regular updates (which will hopefully now become a little more regular) will be free to VIP's just as they have always been for subscribers.  On the other hand, the Rohan expansion will be a paid expansion -- again, just like was the case for subscribers with MoM and SoM.  The difference is that now it will probably be possible to purchase that expansion with accumulated Turbine points if you hoard them.  This is conjecture on my part but is backed up by the fact that MoM and SoM will be available for purchase with Turbine points if you haven't bought them already.

Incidentally, there is a big advantage to the store that I am surprised I haven't seen anyone else pick up on.  We know that it will be possible to purchase Virtue point boosts through the store as an alternative to having to grind out some of the more annoying deeds to get those points.  (Although you can still skip the store if you want and grind the deed, getting some Turbine points in the process.)  Basically this means there is an alternate way to level up your Virtues.   However, this ability to buy Virtue points will not amount to an I-Win button because you will not be able to use the store to exceed the point cap.  Compassion, for example, will still be capped at 10 points.  The only difference is that you'll now have an alternate way to get some of those points.  Since raiders pretty much require you to have maxed virtues before they'll take you seriously, this means that the new system will result in a larger pool of raid-ready players.  That's a good thing for the end game as a whole! 

Originally posted by miichael

maybe I didnt notice this elsewhere but what about inactive accounts with all expansions what will we get come switchover?

You become a Premium player unless you resubscribe.  If you don't resubscribe then you will lose access to the level 20+ zone quests (other than the epic storyline) until you get to Moria.  At that point you will have all quests again until Enedwaith.

You will keep access to the RK and Warden classes.  You'll also keep the extra character slots, level cap, bank slots, etc. that came with the particular expansions that you purchased.  

You will have to buy release of the gold cap, additional backpack space, and the ability to equip the full complement of traits.

It's all listed here under the Premium heading:  http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html  Be sure to read the * and ** stuff under the chart as well, since you've purchased the expansions. 

Originally posted by Nesrie

Originally posted by aurick

 

In fact, it's a safe bet that if you just took all the different bonus points they're going to give out between now and when this change goes live you would be able to drop to Premium and buy most of the limitation removals.  In other words, you could very possibly cancel your subscription after the change is made and continue to play completely free.  At least, until the next major content release.

 So how exactly are premium members going to remove the chat, mail and auction limitations... according to the chart, they can't.

I didn't say all limitations.  I only said most of the limitation removals.

And again, I come back to the question:  What happens today if you cancel your subscription?  How much chat can you do once your paid time has run out?  How much mail can you send?  How many auctions can you post?  Under the new system you will still have some access to all those features and as DDO shows, "some" is still a fair bit..  

Originally posted by Torvaldr

I get what you're saying.  My point is they aren't taking my purchase of SoA into account.  Yeah premium get 3, and VIPs get 5.  My MoM and Adpack purchases count, but they're taking away SoA content and game featuers I PURCHASED the same as I purchased Moria and the AdPack.

They can do whatever they want, but that doesn't mean I have to roll over.  They're taking features away from me out of SoA because it was a long time ago and they think no one cares or no one will make a fuss, or even worse the Turbine Defense Squad will come in and forum lawyer for them.  I don't like that they are removing features I purchased and making me buy them back. That is a really shitty thing to pull on your existing customers.

I can see where there might be some confusion because of how the upgrade to SoM was handled.  The actual SoM expansion included the region, the cap increase to 65 and all the skirmishes.  In addition to that was the AP which included the extra character slots, the cloak, the shared storage and the goat mount.  

The first * covers the first half of this:  the region, cap increase and skirmishes.  As a current subscriber, you will still have it after the conversion, regardless of whether you continue to subscribe or drop to Premium.

The second ** covers the character slots and shared storage.  As a current subscriber, you will still have these as well regardless of whether or not you continue to subscribe.  What is not mentioned are the goat and cloak, but it seems safe to assume that you'll continue to receive them.

If you continue to subscribe after the change is made you will still have everything you have now.  You lose nothing.  In point of fact you actually also receive 500 free Turbine points every month which are equivalent to as much as half your subscription fee if you purchased them yourself.  Those points can be used to buy any extras they bring out in the future; cosmetic items, maybe more character slots, maybe new expansions -- we don't know yet.   

If you stop subscribing then you go to Premium.  In that case you will continue to have everything you have now in terms of purchased content from MoM, SoM and the AP.  You will lose two character slots.  You will also have some other limitations such as fewer trait slots and a gold cap.  But again, this is a huge sight better than what would happen if you stopped subscribing today because today you lose all access to the game including everything you've purchased in the expansions.

In fact, it's a safe bet that if you just took all the different bonus points they're going to give out between now and when this change goes live you would be able to drop to Premium and buy most of the limitation removals.  In other words, you could very possibly cancel your subscription after the change is made and continue to play completely free.  At least, until the next major content release.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by aurick 

You're getting screwed out of nothing.  You ONLY lose those two slots if you stop subscribing.  If you continue subscribing, you lose no slots.

What happens now if you stop subscribing?  Answer:  You lose ALL slots.

So how is this aspect of the new plan worthy of criticism?

Just stop saying if you sub you don't lose anything.  Everyone knows that.  This isn't about now, it's about October and F2S.  The argument presented by you and the Turbine Defense Squad is that if you bought it you don't lose it.

I'm losing my 2 slots from I bought from the AdPack.  Will I have to buy back my shared storage too?  How much else that I already purchased, not through a subscription, but from BUYING SoA, MoM, and the AdPack, will I lose out on?

Remember the subscription only buys you access to the servers.  You have to buy the content and always have.  Lifers never got content for free.  They had to buy buy it just like everything else.  In the future VIPs won't get all access to all future content, they will have to buy it.

Let's look at it again - I bought:

SoA - 5 slots

MoM - 2 slots

AdPack - 2 slots

5 + 2 + 2 = 9, but I'm only getting 7 which means 5 + 2 + 0 = 7.  They're taking my AdPack slots from me.

Am I going to lose my shared storage?  Am I going to lose my in game purchased storage that I've spent over 100 gold on?

 

See you can't use the argument anymore that if you sub you get it, because Turbine is choosing a hybrid model where you purchase some stuff for good.  Let's say you have 5 slots as a Free customer because you bought extra and then you subbed for a while to get "all access".  Do you lose your slots when you unsub later because you're a Premium player with only 3 slots?  By you logic if you don't sub you don't get anything.  We know that's a bunch of crap because that former Free player paid for it, but their purchase counts "more" because they bought it after the F2S period.

I paid $120 for content.  I paid 3 years subsription at about $9.55/mo for server access.  When the game goes F2S I should have access to all the quests, areas, and any other content I purchased.  I shouldn't have to repurchase stuff I've already bought not matter how hard they try and tangle it in marketing speak and logic.  If they add new quests or content (whether it's in an existing area) I fully expect to pay for them.

Read the bloody chart:  http://www.lotro.com/betasignup/vipchart.html

Character Slots */**  

VIP get 5

Premium get 3

Free get 1

But the * and ** tell the rest of the story:

* Purchasers of the Mines of Moria™ expansion get access to the Mines of Moria region and content, premium classes (Rune-Keeper and Warden), legendary items feature, Tier 6 crafting feature, 2 extra character slots and a level cap of 60. Purchasers of the Siege of Mirkwood™ expansion get access to the Siege of Mirkwood region and content, a level cap of 65 and the Siege of Mirkwood skirmishes.

** Purchasers of the LOTRO Adventurer's Pack get 2 extra character slots and 20 slots of shared bank storage across all characters on the same servers.

Did you buy MoM?  If so, then as a VIP you get 5 + 2 slots for a total of 7.  If you also bought the AP then you get 5 +2  +2 slots for a total of 9.  As a VIP you lose no slots.

If you then cancel your subscription you drop to Premium.  (Current and past subscribers will never be reduced to Free.)  So then you have 3 +2 +2 slots for a total of 7.  

So once again:  If you have bought MoM and the AP as you obviously have then you have 9 slots now and you will continue to have 9 slots for as long as you continue to subscribe.  If you cancel your subscription you will drop to 7 slots but will have the option to buy those two slots back separately without resubscribing.  

As a subscriber today, your $15 a month buys continuing access to the content that you've already purchased.  Am I wrong?  If you cancel your subscription you lose access to that content that you have purchased.  Am I wrong?  This holds true with every single pay to play MMO out there.  Am I wrong?  Under the new plan you can keep access to that content even after cancelling your subscription.  So rather than losing all access for no longer subscribing, you lose partial access.  

As for the Free player -- who is ONLY someone who has NEVER subscribed to the game before -- we don't know the whole story.  I have some assumptions, and you clearly have some of your own.  But it's all speculation.  All we know for sure, due to the placement of the * and ** symbols, is that anyone of any account type who purchases MoM or the AP will permanently get all of the benefits listed under the chart.  Bounce from free to VIP to Premium all you want, you'll still have permanently purchased those specific items and have full access to them.  Meanwhile, we know for certain that those of us who play the game now and have purchased those items will continue to have them.  You will NOT have to buy your character slots back unless you wish to permanently go Premium and in that case you only have to buy two slots back.

Does that finally make sense?  Please explain how this makes Turbine evil.

Originally posted by Torvaldr

Originally posted by aurick

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Well one instance of gutting has already been confirmed. They are limiting the char slots to 4 and if you already have 9 you will have to buy the other 5 back. At least thats what I remember reading.

 

You are wrong.  You got two character slots from buying Mines of Moria.  You got two more from buying the Adventurer's Pack.  All content that you have already purchased remains yours -- even if you drop down to free status.  So those four extra character slots will always be yours, no matter what.  They won't get locked and they won't have to be repurchased.  What you would lose if you drop from VIP to Premium is two of the core (Shadows of Angmar) slots.  

Existing players will only ever drop to Premium status.  They will never drop to the Free Player level.  This means that someone who cancels the subscription and drops off VIP status will only have two characters locked.  It is possible to buy those two slots back if you want access to the characters again without resubscribing to the game.  The only thing I don't think they've addressed is whether those two slots would then add onto the original 9 if you later decided to resubscribe.

What are you talking about?  I am getting screwed out of two slots by your analysis.  I bought 5 slots with Shadows ($50).  I bought 2 more with Moria ($50).  I bought 2 more with the AdPack ($20).   So they are taking something people "purchased" by their metric.  They're just choosing to remove the very old slots because the purchase was long ago and people are much less likely to beef about that.

Look at it this way.  Turbine is letting you keep 5 slots from Shadows, the 2 from MoM, and they are taking away the 2 slots from the AdPack.  See math doesn't really care about marketing rhetoric.  You can move parenthese around all you want in addition and subtraction, but the end result is the same.

This kind of Marketroid speak is exactly the kind of thing we should closely examine and eye with criticism.

You're getting screwed out of nothing.  You ONLY lose those two slots if you stop subscribing.  If you continue subscribing, you lose no slots.

What happens now if you stop subscribing?  Answer:  You lose ALL slots.

So how is this aspect of the new plan worthy of criticism?

Originally posted by GrayGhost79

Well one instance of gutting has already been confirmed. They are limiting the char slots to 4 and if you already have 9 you will have to buy the other 5 back. At least thats what I remember reading.

You are wrong.  You got two character slots from buying Mines of Moria.  You got two more from buying the Adventurer's Pack.  All content that you have already purchased remains yours -- even if you drop down to free status.  So those four extra character slots will always be yours, no matter what.  They won't get locked and they won't have to be repurchased.  What you would lose if you drop from VIP to Premium is two of the core (Shadows of Angmar) slots.  

Existing players will only ever drop to Premium status.  They will never drop to the Free Player level.  This means that someone who cancels the subscription and drops off VIP status will only have two characters locked.  It is possible to buy those two slots back if you want access to the characters again without resubscribing to the game.  The only thing I don't think they've addressed is whether those two slots would then add onto the original 9 if you later decided to resubscribe.

I do not believe that the future is F2P or P2P.  I think the future is a hybrid model, which happens to be exactly what Turbine is using.  LotRO and DDO are NOT F2P games.  They are games that have a F2P option.  There is a big difference.

The reason I believe the hybrid model is the future is really basic math.  

$15 a month for a subscription seems to be the sweet spot for subscriptions.  It's the highest that people are typically willing to pay.  So the more people a game has at that $15 price point, the more profitable the game is.

There's just one problem with that:  There are a limited number of customers, and most customers are not willing to pay that $15 a month for more than one, maybe two games.  Yet there are a large number of quality games out there, and more coming every month or two.  This constantly causes the pool of customers to become more and more divided among the games, meaning that each game gets less and less profit.  What happens when a new game comes out?  Usually, it means a bunch of people cancel their subs at Game A to go play Game B for a while.  Some eventually come back to Game A, but some also stay with Game B.  Then Game C comes out and gets players from both A and B.  Some eventually go back to those first two, while some remain with C.  It's a case of diminishing returns.  Unless the total player base grows faster than this inter-game spreading, the result is that all games end up making less and less money.  And frankly, there are no signs that this is happening.  WoW was really the only game that has significantly increased the player base, but even it has hit its limit.  Now it's experiencing the same attrition as everyone else.

This means that it's essential for another model to exist.  The hybrid model is perfect for this.

The advantage to the hybrid model is that there is the subscription option for those who want it.  These are going to be the game's best customers, and so they get the most.  But if the game also has a F2P option it will not completely lose customers every time the Next Big Game comes along.  Sure, it will lose that $15 a month from a number of people, but many of these people will opt to come back under the F2P model even as they're playing the NBG.  So maybe instead of $15 a month, the developer is getting $5 a month.  That's  $5 more than they would have had without the F2P option, which becomes significant when spread among a lot of players.  

It helps the industry as a whole.  That same player who would never pay $15 a month on two games might very well spend $15 on one and $5 on each of three others.  More companies see stronger revenue, which helps them keep their games strong with new features and content.  This also encourages still more developers to come into the picture.  Sure, they'll all be hoping to get as many of those full subscribers as possible, but because it's not an all-or-nothing situation they will have a reasonable hope to see at least decent profits in the long term.  They won't be so focused on a great starting experience with mediocre to crappy end-game content.  (Yes, I'm talking to YOU, Cryptic!)  

I know I've been talking about the benefits to developers here, and that's because those benefits are exactly what drives the developers.  Customer voice really doesn't go a long way unless it's a huge chunk of the population.  But honestly, this scenario does benefit the customer in many ways:

• More games coming onto the scene means more options and hopefully more innovation.
• You have more freedom because you're not locked into your subscription.  You can bounce among games more freely and be able to justify coming back to that change-of-pace game a couple days out of the month.
• As this model increasingly catches on, expect to start seeing price wars among the studios.  The subscription fee is unlikely to change, but the value of the items in the stores is likely to become a hotly competitive area.
• Because each game with a hybrid model is likely to be more profitable than a game with  only a subscription model, these games will be able to put out new content faster.  They'll have to, actually, in order to keep people wanting to at least spend a few days a month in their world.  This means the games you play will stay fresher for you.
• The market is more likely to grow under a hybrid model than it ever could under a strictly P2P model.  This means that more guys  will be able to get their girlfriends to play, even if it's only a few dollars a month rather than a full subscription.  It's an opportunity to introduce more people to the genre, and some of them will ultimately convert to subscribers.  The worlds will see more people, which will help keep them feeling alive.  And you'll have less of that top heaviness that so many of us complain about when we go to roll alts.  There will actually be people for those alts to play with!