Originally posted by gandales

Originally posted by nennafir

If you have enough veteran time, you get the IO system.  I am not paying for a sub and my IOs work just fine.

You never get any incarnate content/system if you are free/premium however.  I think that this means they perceive the incarnate stuff to be the crowning glory of their game or something.

Since incarnate content now consists of running BAFs over and over again and is even more boring than running paper missions, I am fine skipping it, although the incarnate rewards are pretty nice.

They clearly have a lot planned for incarnate though with the extra slots, and in the event that they add a lot and make things more interesting I might subscribe again.

Pls, correct me if I am wrong but by enough veteran time you meant more than 5 years?

Being premium is basically nice for only that level of previous commitment.

I cannot imagine how bad it would be for a brand new player. How much would it costs? It is essentially a soft-pseudo lifetime subscription for a high price.

I would say for somebody planning either starting or returning to the game, he should ask himself, what's the minimum level he would be willing to have for playing. Then make the math to know how much it would costs and then decide. I am about 10 tokens from IOs but I dont think at this point I would pay for them. I'd rather just join the free people in the world of SOs.

 

How "bad" it will be for a new player? Frankly, a brand new player who has never experienced IOs really isn't going to know if they're missing anything.  The game is balanced around SOs and IOs have strictly been a optional system.

As for doing the math, yes, that's what everyone should be doing when it comes to deciding on how they will spend their money... In your case, not spending the money is fine.  Even if you spend no money, you still make a contribution to the game with  your presence because you're another person the payors get to play with.  It all works out ( ' :

Originally posted by ActionMMORPG

It's not even a year old, right?   One of my testers was in beta, I think this past winter.

Correct.  It's not even 10 months old...

Samuraiko's (a player) was much better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mP6ebB-6YI&feature=channel_video_title

Originally posted by jinxxed0

If you aleady paid for the stuff, you shouldn't have to pay for it again (box sales shold count for something). The only solution in that case is to just not play the game at all. Or just throw away more cash. Personally I can live without ever playing CoH again. With all the new games coming out and such.

Before freedom launched, you paid for a subscription -- when you stopped paying, you stopped playing.  All that's changed is now you get to play SOME of the game for free, if you so choose.  If you want to play ALL of the game, it's going to cost some money (either in subscription time or point purchases) -- that's not much different from the past. 

In today's world of Freedom, a box purchase is unnecessary.

If someone bought the CoH box -- they got and used the subtime they paid for.

If someone bought the CoV box -- they got and used the subtime they paid for. 

if someone bought the CoH collector's edition -- they got and used the subtime they paid for; they also have access to their cape of the 4 winds, prestige power slide, and badge....

if someone bought the Cov collector's edition -- they got and used the subtime they paid for; they also have access to their arachnos cape and symbol....

if someone bought the architect edition -- they got and used the subtime they paid for; they also have access to the free booster pack.

if someone bought the Mac edition -- they got and used the subtime they paid for; they also have access to their mission transporter power and valkyrie set.

if someone bought the good versus evil edition -- they got and used the subtime they paid for.; they also have access to their justice and sinister costume sets, jump pack power, and mission transporter power.

if someone bought a CoH pre-order or CoV pre-order -- they still have access to the sprint or helmet.

Stuff you paid for, as in the bonus perks, you still have access too.  Buying a box did not mean you have access to the game though, paying a subscription did....before Freedom.  This makes the argument that "I should get what I paid for and therefore have access to everything for free" fallacious because you did get what you paid for -- you just don't accept it.

Please note, box codes are still being honored so if you do find it on the cheap, you can add sub-time to your account, pick up perks, and even snag the free booster from the architect edition.

Originally posted by Xero_Chance

It turns out that IO Enhancement Sets don't work if you're free or premium.

So even if you spent over 200mil on your build 2 years ago, you cannot even use your level 50 for anything at all. Don't even try to do anything without IOs at 50, you'll get kicked, tarred, and feathered. Most people check for slot bonuses in your info window when building a team, especially for something hard.

It's hardly Pay2Win. 

First of all, Pay2Win is only relevant in a competitive game -- PvP is pretty much dead here so while we can't call it exclusively cooperative, it really is...for now.  Second, Pay2Win typically refers to game companies releasing ever increasingly more powerful items in their shops.  The IO system is a game feature, not a singluar item that requires constant upgrades.  Furthermore, it's FREE if you have enough tokens earned, otherwise costs less than $2/month.  The reality is, if you don't want to pay $15/month, but don't want any other bells and whistles, then less than $2/month for a game is a great deal. 

The typical argument is $15/month is a great deal when compared to a 2 hour movie ticket.  $2/month is an awesome deal compared to a large fries that lasts 10 minutes.  When you start looking at it like this and consider that before freedom launched, you couldn't play at all because you did not want/could not cough up $15/month, your argument doesn't hold much water.

Oh, and one last thing -- a 200 million inf build is nothing ( ' ;

Originally posted by azrael466

I only PAID for a month. However, i used "free months" from different things i got from here, as i said before. I played for, i forget, i have a horrible memory, It was atlest 3 or 4.

So, Paragon rewards aren't based on paid time, but subscription time (as well as points purchased, but that is irrelevant here).  The difference is that subscription time includes free time in the box as well time earned for referrals.  To figure things out, you need to actually log into the game client, click on a server and then look at that top blue bar:

In box 1, it notes global slots -- free and premium players get a base 2 slots, plus 1 for every year subscribed, plus anything you prevoiusly bought plus 2 if you subscribed during issue 13 (veats), plus 2 if you had going rogue attached to your account before Freedom launched.  Those global slots are used to unlock character slots on the servers.  It's a fixed number, so you have to be thoughtful where you use them.  Subscribers get a base 12 per server plus any more based on the criteria I noted above.

Box 2 is unspent tokens.  You earn tokens for subscription time, purchases in the paragon market, and if you ever purchased a box.  The subscription time to token calculation before Freedom launched was 1 token for every 3 months plus 1 token for each year.  Since freedom launched, it's 1 token for every month subscribed.

The tokens are basically a loyalty rewards/carot to spend money.  If you click on the token button, you'll get this screen:

And you can plug tokens in in any order on a given tier, but you must complete an entire tier.  Hovering over the slots identifies what you'll get.

Now, for those who bought boxes in the past -- you had to pay subtime to play the game fully.  At this juncture, you can play most of the game without a sub, so complaining that you cannot play all of it, regardless of what box you bought is a moot point.  If you want to play the entire game, then subscribe/buy points.  The point of the freedom model is that you can essentially decide how much you want to pay -- $15/month or perhaps only $1/month, or pay nothing it all.  The fact is that, no, you don't have to buy the game again. 

Originally posted by naza733

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by cheyane

I have like may be 15 toons scattered on Virtue and Freedom. If I go back now and resub will I be able to play them all and my invention IOs that I carfted will it all be intact. Will I get to play all my toons or will there be restrictions and I will have to buy from the shop either character slots or the right to use my IOs or to actually play on the server I have my toons on. Does anyone who has a better clue than I do be able to advice me.

If you resub, then you have access to everything again -- you're a VIP. 

You will have access to all of your toons.

You will have access to all of your io's.

You will have no restrictions.

You will not have to buy anything in the cash shop.

 

In addition, as a subscriber you will even have access to going Rogue and begin earning a 400 point stipend every month to spend in the store.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

What about anyone who has a free account now but used to be subscribed to CoH along time ago and had some high level characters, will I ever be able to unlock them? I don't want to create a new one on an existing account and have to go through the level process again.

 

Depends on how long you were subscribed for and what you had previously bought.  At a minimum, you will have 2 global character slot unlock tokens.  You can unlock any toon or slot on a specific with one of them.

I'd advise though, if it really has been a long time, that you consider starting by re-rolling a new toon.

I guess they figured that they got everything they could from box sales.....lot's of us stated that a subscription model wouldn't be sustainable due to lack of content (among other things), but I'm surprised they didn't opt into a buy2play model first.

As SOE has proven, they don't really have the track record for pushing out new content in a timely (nevermind frequent) manner.  So, in order to get a cash store working, either they're going to have to take some things away and charge for it (which, given the lack of content to begin with, would be self-defeating) or else they put in pay2win items (which most people despise).

As I've posted a few times, lots of bad design decisions in this game -- this seems to be another.  I can't imagine how much the DC license is costing SOE right now.... all I can say is, if you do enjoy this game, enjoy it for as long as you can.....

Originally posted by diceman82

too bad  players  cants guild  up and  the content  is  horribly gated witha  free accounrt.May as well be a trail account  for  all the  actual "freedom" you get.. 

"Horribly Gated"?  There are 4 Incarnate trials, a signature story arc, and the Going rogue 1-29 content.  The other 7 years of content that goes from level 1-50 with multiple leveling paths....yeah, that is still accessible.

As for joining supergroups, spend $5.00 to earn a second token, and then you can be invited to supergroups. The 400 points you buy can then be used on anything you choose.

Originally posted by Gravarg

Originally posted by moosecatlol

I still hate everything about this game, and yet... they managed to sucker $15.00 USD out of me.

Yeah, I'd like to come back and play, but I'm not paying $15 for a class that I already paid $50 for.  The only reason I even purchased CoV was to play Mastermind....I guess that was a waste of $50 now :(  I guess I could sub for another 2 months, then get it free with the reward tokens, but that's $30 isntead of $15 lol.

 

It's like buying a car, then after you buy it, the sales person tells you the engine isn't included lol

Gravarg, buy 1200 points for $15.00.  You'll get 1 token for the 1200 points and you'll get a bonus token because it is your first purchase (that exceeds 400pps).  You now qualify for free access to MM and Controller ATs.

Spend that 1200 points on the invention license for 150pp/month and you now have free and full access to IOs on those toons for the next 8 months.   If $2/month to play CoH is still too much, go play something on facebook.

Just for reference....

 To get lifetime Wentworth's access and play in Mission Architect, regardless of subbing or not (Tier 4), that's 8 tokens -- you can get that with

• having already purchased 21 months of subtime or
• having already purchased 18 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* or
• having already purchased 18 months of subtime + making your first purchase in the paragon market**, or
• having already purchased 15 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase on the paragon market**, or
• maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 8 months***

• having already purchased 33 months of subtime or
• having already purchased 30 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* or
• having already purchased 30 months of subtime + making your first puchase in the paragon market**, or
• having already purchased 27 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase on the paragon market**, or
• maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 12 months***#

• having already purchased 48 months of subtime, or
• having already purchased 45 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase on the paragon market**, or
• maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 19 months***#

To get lifetime access to IOs, regardless of subbing or not (Tier 7) -- that's 27 tokens -- you can get that with

• having already purchased 66 months of subtime or
• having already purchased 63 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* or
• having already purchased 63 months of subtime + making your first purchase in the paragon market**, or
• having already purchased 60 months of subtime + buying any 1 box* + making your first purchase in the paragon market** or
• maintaining an ongoing subscription for at most 25 months***#

* -- you get 1 token if you applied a retail code (box or electronic version). They do honor codes entered after freedom launched.

** -- you get 1 token for your first purchase ever on the paragon market (minimum 400pp = $5.00)

***  -- Going forward, you get 1 token for each month subscribed.  For any subtime accumulated before Freedom hit, it is calculated as 1 token for every 3 months.

# -- You get an additional token for every 12 months subscribed..

In addition, you get 1 token for every 1200 points ($15.00) spent, cumulatively -- doesn't have to be one purchase.

So, the question to the people not subscribing anymore, where do you fall on cumulative earned tokens?  You can log in and see how many you have.

If you're a token or 2 away, as is the case of Gravarg, he can make a 1 time $15.00 purchase and get 2 tokens, giving full access to MM and Controllers ATs without subscribing.  He can then use that 1200 PP's to buy any fun stuff he wants.  For example, he could use that 1200 points to then buy 8 months worth of invention licenses.  He now has full access to any IOs. Note: he already qualifies for access to the Auction House and playing in MA. 

Now, the question Gravarg must ask is this -- if $15.00/month is too much to play the game, then is less than $2.00/month also too much to play the game?  In his shoes, I would say that's an awesome deal and claim that is the beauty of freemium. 

Originally posted by Gravarg

They need to make it so that former players can access all thier characters.  I have 4 different masterminds that are useless now,  This was the only class that I ever played at length, all the other classes stink.  I won't be playing this because I can't access any of my level 50s....Yes I could spend the $15, yes it's $15 to buy a class, but why not just sub if I'm going that route.  i'll stick with Rift and FFXIV, at least they're not outdated.

Well, you do have access to the characters.

Either sub.

Sub until you get tier 5 paragon rewards (which may not be far off for you).

Or pay to unlock the class permanently  (as some of the more hostile crowd on the CoX boards pointed out).

As for being "outdated", that just sounds bitter, given your stated alternatives.

Originally posted by PukeBucket

Doesn't look like it.

I'm back in as a former subscriber; thanks mmorpg for posting that bit of news; and really I'm kind of underwhelmed that returning players aren't at least being tossed a little bone here.

You get a number of unlock slot tokens, you can only unlock 2 characters per server. (So if you have 5 like me, I can only unlock 2 on Champion despite having all 12 of my toons there...)

I don't think it's very premium feeling.

Actually, that unlock number isn't accurate.

If you're a free player (defined as never a subscriber and never a purchasor), then you get 2 global character unlocks that you can use on any server (except the VIP server).  But, it is a total of 2.

Premium players are former subscribers or those who have made some purchase on the paragon market.  These players get 2 global character unlocks + 1 global character unlock per year subscribed + 2 global character slots if subscribed during issue 12 (Villaine Epic archtypes introduced) + 2 slots if you purchased Going Rogue before the release of Freedom + 1 global slot for every character slot purchased.  That total number of global character slots can be allocated across any server (except the VIP one).

Subscribers get 12 character slots PER server plus whatever was previously purchased.

Originally posted by goosie

If you are a returning subscriber looking to play for free, keep  in mind that you won't have access to invention origins unless you've been a paying subscriber long enough to unlock the tier 7 paragon rewards (you need to have earned 27 paragon tokens). At 27 paragon tokens "earned", you will have lifetime access to the invention origin system.

I didn't realize why my characters felt weak until I read that the IOs you have on your character(s) are useless unless you have the invention origin license (meaning you need to be a VIP or you have earned 27 paragon tokens). So unless you're a new player or you're an old enough player that you don't have IOs on your characters, you need to spend money to even have functional characters.

I've earned 23 myself, so I'm 4 away from being able to really play for "free". You earn 1 paragon token for your first purchase of paragon points (minimum 400) and when you purchase 1200 paragon points as well. 400 paragon points is  roughly $5. If you go VIP, you'll get 1 per month of subscription as well as 400 paragon points per month.

Not entirely true -- in addition to simply subscribing or earning 27 tokens, you can....

a. Pay 160pp/month for an IO license and have full access to your Invention Origin Enhancements (that's $2 versus $15), or

b. Use your alternative build and slot it with SOs.  The game was balanced around single-origin enhancements to begin with and viable as a free option.

Meaningful PvP?  Not in those games.  Try Dark Age of Camelot maybe?

By the end of October (assuming SOE holds to its schedule, HAH!), you should be able to try all 3 for free at the same time.  CO you can check out the PvP already as it is Freemium.  CoH is gradually going Freemium (former accounts are being reactivated this week, new accounts will be free soon).  And, SOE is intending on moveding DCUO to freemium by the end of October.

The 3 offer fairly distinct combat experiences, but I still find CoX to be the best, most diverse, and most entertaining of the three.

Originally posted by Skuall

Originally posted by therain93

Originally posted by Skuall

ncsoft ask for the CC (4 last numbers) , Activation keyt and lots of things i can barely remember

oh well at least buying anything will give premium ......or is 5$ min?

 

now the question is WHEN is going to be released D: , the pre-release is usually 3 days :S

My guesses are Sept 27th, Oct 4th, Oct 11th, or Oct 18th for go live although I'm favoring October 4th (note, those are all Tuesdays).  Paragon is stil putting out some stability patches and the Halloween event will likely go up on the 25th....and I wouldn't open it up only a week ahead of that, so that's where I get my initial window.  I figure Oct 4th allows 3 weeks to address additional stability issues due to a serious influx of players and also Oct 4th is kind of a nice round number, start off a new month.  It has to go up before Halloween though since it's a huge draw.

hope u are wrong :P

27th is a good number too ><

Well, partially wrong.  Former player accounts (Premiums) are being activated over the course of the next week so they will have access.  My friend's old account is active already.

Partially right because the community manager (Zwillinger) admitted to an "overabundance" of caution in staging the release of Freedom like this.

Originally posted by Skuall

ncsoft ask for the CC (4 last numbers) , Activation keyt and lots of things i can barely remember

oh well at least buying anything will give premium ......or is 5$ min?

 

now the question is WHEN is going to be released D: , the pre-release is usually 3 days :S

My guesses are Sept 27th, Oct 4th, Oct 11th, or Oct 18th for go live although I'm favoring October 4th (note, those are all Tuesdays).  Paragon is stil putting out some stability patches and the Halloween event will likely go up on the 25th....and I wouldn't open it up only a week ahead of that, so that's where I get my initial window.  I figure Oct 4th allows 3 weeks to address additional stability issues due to a serious influx of players and also Oct 4th is kind of a nice round number, start off a new month.  It has to go up before Halloween though since it's a huge draw.

Originally posted by iCaptainGeek

I haven't taken a look at the cash shop UI yet, but I'm guessing that if it hinders the process of using the cash shop, then that UI will be altered quickly.  ;)

 

 

Hopefully it will get addressed faster than the wentworth's ui (not that its revamp was all that much of an improvement).  Just in general, UI doesn't feel like paragon's strong suit.  Perhaps it is a product of the engine, but yeeesh.

The UI needs some serious work though -- it's not very friendly in that respect.

Hmmmmm.  If I actually used psn for more than just watching hulu and netflix, I might have concern.  I don't think I ahve anything of importance stored on their servers.....

If actively used pSN and bought things though, I would cancel it outright.  That's such a ridiculous clause.