The worst part about all of it is that we haven't seen anything to confirm/deny any of their involvement (what level they were involved) or even if they really knew what was happening.

SOE is great at 'marketing'.  I'm wondering how difficult it would have been for them to dupe LA? 

The information SOE gathers from their fans is laughable.  They take what they want to hear and run with it.  I'm sure they presented what they wanted LA to see and made LA believe they were simply giving the public what they wanted.

Again, SOE = clownshoes.

If they had 'classic' servers... I'd probably play again and be fairly happy with that. 

I loved the way you could really customize your character in SWG. 

Expertise, Talent, etc.,... nothing that I've seen in another game today holds a candle to the old SWG 'levelling' / character builder model for player progression and customization. 

...

Anyway, if SOE did provide some 'classic' servers... do you think that would earn them some credibility in the overall MMO gaming community?  Or do you think they are too far gone to really 'save face' at this point?

I know a lot of vets said they wouldn't come back even if SOE made the 'roll back', because they just don't trust SOE.

I guess something important to consider is the fact that 'some' players do like the NGE. The population is made up of new players who never knew the old system as well as old players who simply grew to like it.   If SOE made changes now, they would really upset the NGE fans.

It's easy for me to sit here and type/bash SOE and ask for changes, because I'm not amongst the population of players that would be considered 'NGE fans'.   I continue to ask SOE to take their game away from them and give me back the old SWG that I really enjoyed.  So I can certainly see where there might be some 'hostility' of SWG Vets vs the NGE Gen SWG players.

If there was another Star Wars based MMO, I would play it.  There isn't.  So I continue to watch SWG and circle back in/out of the game... hoping for roll-backs or major changes.

At this point, I hate the game.  I hate the fact that I don't have any real say in how the game changes, but I hate even more that I don't have an option for another Star Wars MMO. 

If players hate a certain fantasy based game... they can simply move to another system.  There are dozens of fantasy based MMO's out there.  There's only one Star Wars game, though.

Yeah... it's pretty friggin awful. 

I know people are saying 'it's getting better'. 

Of course it is.  The only way to go once you have hit the bottom is up.

Too little.

Too late.

Next SW mmo please.  Will there be one?

It's not Star Wars without Jedi.  It's just not.

The main characters in the movies were Jedi.  The game is based off of the movies.

I know there are books and comics about other characters... fair enough.  But this game is just another 'sci-fi' game without Jedi. 

I highly doubt I would play.  Jedi was a goal.  It was something to strive for.  There isn't anything like that now.

I agree with your message overall.  I mean, most of those points are very much in line with what most vet's have experienced.

Customer Service experience has been bad.  To me, it goes beyond the day to day issues.  They need to learn how to deal with their long term shortcoming's.  They need to learn how to handle issues and bugs that have been in the game for 'years'. 

In short, SOE's customer support does not know how to fix their customers. 

Change control and quality management measures also need to be put into place.  I realize that the changes the CU and NGE brought were supposed to be 'groundbreaking' via SOE's standards and they didn't want the industry to get wind of them beforehand, but they had a customer base to consider.  They failed to really take into account what the customers would think and then failed to take action when the customer's spoke out against the changes.

Most of the changes seemed to be added by SOE in a very dishonest fashion.

All in all, SOE fails to understand the customers.  They read messages and seem to zone in on the wrong points. 

SOE also failed to deliver the Star Wars feel that games like Jedi Knight and KOTOR brought.  Now, we are all aware of the Force Unleashed that's coming up.  We're still stuck playing Star Wars in the fashion that SOE feeds us. 

As other franchizes advance and launch new content... SOE is still struggling to revamp and bring back things they took away from us 2 years ago.  They tell us 'it's new code'... it's really just the old prof's ported from preCU to the CU to the NGE.  That's not 'new code'... it's not 'new development'. 

I started playing a few months after launch... because I figured the bugs would've been worked out.

While there were 'bugs', I had about 20 or so RL friends playing the game and a great guild.

The CU killed the guild... I left for a few months, but came back.

Then the NGE killed the guild I joined after that.

I tried to stick around, but left again for a month or so.

I've been back on/off again throughout the NGE. 

I used to look forward to logging in and 'doing things'... anything.  PvP, grinding loot, etc.,...

The game is garbage. 

Patchwork, mismatched 'old content' chewed up,used, and abused and then spat back out for us to accept as 'new content'.

I had more between 5-10 accounts at a given time preCU and during the CU.  The NGE made those accounts useless.

I belong to one of the largest/oldest Rebel guilds on the server... and they are a skeleton crew at best. 

The combat system lacks any type of inspiration or originality. 

The expertise system is a cheap knock-off of what other games have done... better.

The artwork that used to be 'superior' is now 'run of the mill', imho.

No new content in a long time (sorry, but revamped old stuff doesn't count).

SOE continued to take away the things we liked about the game but failed to really give us anything in return... other than a promise that they were taking away bugs.

The server I'm on is 'light-very light' and we still have lag issues during PvP and lots of rubber-banding. 

Shops are barren.

New players have a tough time finding items OR good directions from players.

PvP is hard to find.

PvE is tired and it's all 'been done'.

Bringing creature handler back in a watered down shadow of its former self was supposed to be 'big news' for SOE... even though it came very late after it was requested and as a 'side prof' via 'Expertise'.

Restuss was put into place and just forgotten about... this should've continued to be developed and augmented to keep it interesting.

The Dev's gave Entertainers tons of abilities, animations, combat functionality, etc.,... terrible use of their time, imho.

Zero delivery from SOE on player requests for new content (planets, pvp zones, armor, weapons, etc.,..)... they just keep trickling out 'crap' that they feel the need to broadcast with all the underwhelming electricity of a Ben Stein commercial.

SOE keeps buying new games and abusing them... as opposed to fixing the messes they already have on their hands.

SOE launched 2 combat upgrades and used the excuse 'we can't roll back because we don't have the back-up data to do so'... which makes them the single worst 'IT' organization in the known universe.  They didn't have a back-out plan?  They didnt' keep back-up data 'just in case'?   If the roll-out of either the CU or the NGE would've failed and they would've nuked our toons... then what?  They would've expected us to roll new toons?  I think not.

SOE lies... period.

SOE killed my inner-child.

I'm waiting to see how badly they destroy the DC characters (if they still have rights to that?).

But I'm not bitter or anything.

I agree.

If account information is stolen from Blizzard, then they should/would be responsible.

If their code created a security vulnerability to their clients, then they would also need to assume some responsibility.

In the end, we are responsible for our own security, however. 

If their client code does not natively provide the keylogger or malware (and is solid) and they are secure on their side (user/account information), then they have pretty much done what they are required to do. 

IF they choose to recover 'stolen' in game property/currency for you, then that's an act of 'good will' on their part.  It's customer service.  More than likely, this will be the choice of the customer service rep that you come in contact with.

...

All in all, you need to know what you are doing when you attach you connect to the internet.  That's all on you.

Vampires .... Werewolve's...

What timeframe?

Midieval?

1800's?

Current?

Future?

Distant/sci-fi- future?

...

I like the thought of doing something like this.  A lot to explore.. and somethat has obviously been explored or perhaps exploited/beaten to death (undead).

Like most have said, 'please... no more dwarf's, elf's, orc's, troll's, etc.,...'.  Done, dead, tired.

Just Werewolves, Vampires, and humans, please.

Human... that has transitioned to either werewolf or vampire.  There could be other factions amongst the 2 that would seemingly be 'at war'. 

Vampires... different classes:  caster or melee... and different roles/ranks in the society.  (Vampire caster would have powers that enhanced movement (flight, speed), different forms, and 'resists/vulnerabilities'.)

Werewolves... different classes: caster or melee ... and different roles/ranks in the society. (Werewolf caster?  Perhaps more sensory to help track, locate prey or enemies?  Maybe enhanced healing and obviously certain 'resists', vulnerabilities.)

Humans that aided vampires/werewolves:  Help cover up their tracks.  Keep them hidden/safe.  Perhaps fetch them prey?  Insure longevity.  Fight for them during the day. 

Humans that hunted one or ther other, or both.  Perhaps as working for the goverment, secret societies, or perhaps a religious figure?

I like some of what Anne Rice did with the concept of the 'Talamasca' in her novels.... which could serve to provide some sense of what the humans might do.  'Track and observe' the supernatural. 

Vampire and werewolf lore runs deep and through multiple cultures. 

Perhaps throw in 'witches' or something of the sort?  I could see this game taking on a great EasternEurope feel, depending on the timeframe intended.

I would assume that to really bring this to 'current' or a more recent time period, they would extend this to the US and other parts of the world in game scope/playable area-environment.

I never played Vamp the Masq or any of the others.  I may look up information on those. 

Originally posted by Tyrranosaur

Gotta love that MMORPG.COM readership.....

Pretty much all of the complaints above fall in to one of the following "read between the lines categories:

1. "I am burned out on this game and need to discourage myself from playing it without joy by expressing my hatred for it."

2. "I am burned out on this game but am compulsive and must show my hatred for it to avoid falling back in to playing."

3. "I love another game and anything tied in to a more successful franchise scares me so I must attack it."

4. "I spent nine million hours getting my 60 level epic gear and when the new expansion added ten levels of content it showed me what a putz I was for wasting all that time in the first place and so I must hate it."

5. "I have a real life/real job havne't got the time to play and to avoid feeling bad I will express my hate for it."

6. "I like to express my rage through games by pvping till the cows come home and games like this get too touchy feely for me so I must vent my rage by calling it carebearish."

And then there's my own contribution...

"I get so frickin' bored with the grinding and high end crap that it drives me nuts that the new game doesn't cater to the players who prefer the low end questing from 1-60 and so must hate it."

Actually I am looking forward to it, it sounds both cool and horrifically messy all at the same time....

To all above: Joke! Joke! But sriously, we all need to relax. It's just another game, albeit an enormously successful and dangerously addictvie one.

The game is bad.

The service is bad.

The company that provides the game and the service is bad as well.

Time hasn't changed anything other than the game going from 'bad' to 'worse'.

...

I've had 2-3 'good' experiences with SOE service/support and probably 20-30 bad ones. 

Good = they used common sense and fixed an issue that was obviously in need of attention and remedy.

Bad = they read from a script and didn't respond to my individual issue at all.  Then, when I had to resubmit a ticket, they would simply say 1 of 2 things 1) we're working on it or 2) we're sorry, we can't do anything about that. 

I could accept 'working on it' IF it wasn't the same response to the same issues for 12-24 months. 

SOE should be giving this game away by now, just to give their servers something to do. 

...

I've played many other games.  I would say that service/support from those 'other' game companies would hit a 85-90% customer sat rating with me. 

If the perfect game were ever invented, if it were given to SOE to manage... they would find a way to wreck it, trash it, and make us all hate it.  It's just their nature.

...

They are clown shoes.

/rantOff

Loads of potential... but very little in the way of anything close to delivery on anything substantial. 

Not gonna bash the game any more than that.  I read about the ability to control multi-characters simo and thought 'what a great feature'.  And honestly, it is.  I usually run more than one account with just about any game i've played anyway. 

Again, great concept for the game... just not something I found appealing.  Perhaps in another market it will do well.  I just don't see this game being 'great' in the US/N.America.

The game isn't just bad... it's terrible.

It's only around for a few reasons:

1) The community... or what's left of it.  In general, I've met a lot of great people while playing SWG over the years.  More so than in WoW, FFO, EQ2, etc.,.. People were willing to help you, they were welcoming/inviting, they were better ambassadors for the game than any SOE employee ever is/was/or will be, and even though the game sucked... you stuck it out with your guildies and other in-game friends for as long as you could.  You learned to enjoy playing the game with these people. 

The community in SWG is like an elite military unit.  They have worked hard to stay together and 'adapt and overcome' any bs that SOE has managed to sling at them.

2) It's Star Wars.  Until there is another SW-based MMO out there, SWG is it.  We don't even have KOTOR III to take the edge off.. it's just SWG.  When does Force Unleashed hit?  Not soon enough, that's when. 

I know you can break the character classes down in this game and probably compare them to WoW or EQ or some other mmo... but the fact that you can be a Jedi is pretty friggin nice.   The fact that you can be a BH and hunt Jedi (and now other players)... yeah, nice as well. Even though SOE has managed to water these prof's down to where they perform @ about 1/5th their former strength, they aren't dwarf's, ogre's, troll's, or elf's. 

3)  Familiarity.  People have played this game for years now.  They have characters that they worked really hard on, took time to customize, have been through good times and bad, and have played for days and days (years).  People literally have 'stuff' in the game... houses and shops and ships and bunkers and bank accounts full of 'stuff'.  Stuff they just don't want to see become 'vapor'.

While the game is now completely different... they still have their character and their 'stuff'.  They can fly around the diff planets and see the same things they used to see... well, player cities have changed and/or dried up and mostly died, but anyway.  Sure, other games may have player housing and 'trophies' and the like... but the level at which SWG has taken this to, has been one of it's strengths. 

...

The game is just bad now though.  If I had never played any other MMO and SWG (in it's current state) was the first one I tried.. not only would I quickly cancel that sub, I'd probably never want to play another MMO ever again.  It's that bad.

Obviously, the real reason the game is still around is that it's backed by SOE and Lucas.  The almighty $OE.  Tanker of great SCI-FI universes and potentially great fantasy genre games.

SWG (preCU) has to be my favorite MMO of all time.  I've played all of the usuals (won't bother the the list), but preCU SWG was great.

I don't think it's fair to say that anyone who played SWG abandoned the game. 

I think we all tried very hard to communicate our wishes, wants, and needs to SOE during the preCU era, the CU, and into the NGE.  A lot of people played through bugs and revamps and tried to point SOE in the right direction.  We played and tried the game in all of it's various stages. 

We abandoned hope after SOE displayed an inability to listen and a lack of will to right their wrongs... for 4+ years.

I agree with a lot of what Rhoklaw said there.  TBC introduced new eye candy and stat boosts via time-sink.  I still enjoy the game to a great degree, but creating a game that seems like a 'grind' and less like 'playing' is an issue. 

PreTBC, the game had 'tank and spank' bosses.  At least some of the bosses in the expansion were offered some different tactics/strat's. 

...

If the game wanted to provide eye-candy, they should allow the players to do some simple things:

1) change appearance after day 1.  Eye, hair, skin color, etc.,...

    1a)  more appearance options. height, weight, etc.,...

2) armor dye kits.  You spent a month or so running instances to get your Tier 6 stuff?  Gratz.  In another month you'll look like everyone else.  (some of the armor sets appear more than once, with different colors... let us choose the colors, much like guild tabards)

     2a) main armor body color and armor trim color should be set differently

3) customizable item effects.  If the effect art already exists in the game and if we loot an item that is supposed to have an 'effect' (appearance), then let us choose the appearance (not changing functionality).  They have the ability to do this... look at what Enchanters can do to an item already.

      3a)  If I'm a rogue, maybe I don't want my shoulders to glow bright white or green... maybe I want a simple, understated black-smoke effect?  stealth, not flash. 

More races would be nice.  Thinking up racial abilities may not be so easy, though.  Many perceive the racial bene's to provide unfair advantages as it is. But more races would be nice... I like options and diversity.

More classes.  I do think balance would be an issue, but why not give the current classes a once over to see what we  already have?

Necromancer would be a 3rd Pet Handler class?  Would Necro be a Lock + Hunter combo?  More battle/physical minded than a Lock, yet less 'man's best friend/pull n plunk' than a Hunter?  Perhaps their minions would be summoned as specials?  Example:  they cast a special and several ghostly figures rise from the ground and do a wave's worth of damage.  As you specialize, those minions would have more HP or longer duration.  Maybe like the pet Shadow Priests/Mages get?

I like the idea for a Shadow Knight, but I really think that a horde Pally should be titled 'Shadow Knight'... Alliance should just be Pally.  But going along with the idea:  Perhaps adding some form of a 'shadow' aspect to Shaman might work better to fill in here?  So(as opposed to the nature bound class that they are).  Give them Shadow totems, etc.,.?  They could call upon 4 elements such as: shadow, arcane, nether, and 'dark'/'void'?   Their totems could be more vampiric as opposed to restorative. 

The lines of 'Alliance = Good' and 'Horde = Evil" are very grey anyway.  With both factions getting 'Shadow Priest', 'Holy Priest', 'Holy Paly', 'Warlock', etc.,..

I also think that the Flying Mounts we earned in Outlands should go with us to the next expansion... or at least open up some areas in the old area where we can use them (higher end). 

Again, overall, I'm still happy with the game, but I'd like to see some diversity. 

The sad thing is, it has the 'Star Wars' tag associated with it.  If it weren't for that, nobody would play the POS game anymore.

What a mess.  Too many changes. 

Both the Matrix Online and Star Wars Galaxies had so much potential... only to be absolutely fubar'd by SOE.

Oh well... what can we do?  Submit countless e-mails?  Sign petitions?  Attend their lovely tea parties/FanFest?  None of it works.

Delete your toons.

Cancel your account.

Uninstall game.

Find new game, hobby, or something.  Stop supporting them. 

Some are saying the game is 'fun again'.  Glad some can make the game work for them and they can deal with the watered down BS that SOE pushes as the SW Universe. 

...

Wonder what they'll do to DC? 

So... the game launched with a lot of bugs?

The performance lags or is sluggish?

It has lost a lot of customers?

And it's run by SOE?

... anyone really shocked?

...

I've heard from several folks that it's a 'fun' game.  But I've heard 'grind', 'lag', 'quit', and 'can't wait for ...... game to come out' more than I've heard words of praise about this game. 

I doubt we'll really see a roll-back.  I want it, but I really doubt it would/will happen.

Sand-box game with a brilliant community.  If the game didn't have the community it has(had) and a Star Wars label... it would've been gone a year or so ago. 

The way SOE rolled out the CU and the NGE really seemed to punish customers who liked the system, but wanted bugs worked out, expansions, and content.  Even after the combat changes killed a very large percentage of the player base, SOE refused to do the smart thing and roll-back. 

Some people state that the changes to the game were 'necessary evils', but I don't agree.  I think the types of changes that SOE made to the game were almost equal to what some games would call 'sequels'. 

If SOE would've fixed what they had instead of taking the game to square one and starting over (which they did, more or less), then they would have had a chance to hold on to their players. 

Couple the massive changes that SOE made with the launch of WoW, EQ2, and some of the other MMO's out there... well, some players would rather learn an entirely new system with a new character as opposed to learning a new system on their old character (who now is so watered down, it's depressing).

Just my opinions, but the things that most former SOE customers were/are bitter about... the changes. 

Most of the vets in the game are trying to get by with the game... and I'm not someone who wants to just 'get by' for my $15/mo.  I'd rather really enjoy the game I'm playing and the time I'm spending playing it. 

...

More than that... what could SOE do to bring me back?  Create a preCU server or at the very least a CU server.  I would bet that a lot of folks would move to those systems.  I'm not saying this change would steal players from other games, but I'm sure some old vets would return to at least check it out. Due to the fact that fans are very loyal to Star Wars and the nature of the community in the game, I would guess that a move like this could actually boost numbers.

The game is too much of a jumbled hybrid of many games, yet it fails to really capitalize on the best qualities of any of them.  Most of the game art/skins are still the same, but that's really all I recognize from the 'golden days'. 

/rant off