Originally posted by Qark

That was problem when i entered every other game including LOTRO...first thing i notice (and it makes me sick from start) is bad character movement...maybe its because all WoW is cartoony...so cartoony character esay blend with cartoony background and suroundings...but in every other game where devs want to show "realism" it ends up strange and un natural...like Anarchy online...character movement there is like Michael Jackson moonwalking all the time...

Yes, I'd agree with your comments about "realistic" graphics vs. cartoony ones. I think a bunch of characters with the same basic body types running around like they have broomsticks up their behinds breaks immersion for me much more than cartoony looking graphics. This is not a specific stab at EQ2. I just think game engines have not reached the point yet where they can make "realistic" character animations look 100% believable. This wouldn't stop me from playing a game, but when we're looking at two games with pretty similar play styles and leveling systems, I'd tend to go for the cartoonier of the two.

Originally posted by Ellister

Hey Guys... Im Bored!

I need a "in the meantime" MMO to play for the next say 6 months till WAR arrives on my doorstep.

Please dont Say WoW!  I managed to escape the grinding and I want a PvP game to play.

I tried DAoC and to my sadness liked it, but the Euro English servers are pretty much empty and I find myself getting kicked out of the game every 20 mins for lost connections.  If i can possible solve that inthe next 10 days I guess ill stay for a little.

But in case not... where should i look for some good PvP fantasy action, I love the char advancement in games like DAoC and WoW etc, so would like to stick to that.

Please Help!

Originally posted by Lytr

i'd say fantasy is more popular because it's been there longer.  in actual midieval times there were " witches, " seers, " " priests " ect. people just have it in their roots. i guess.  and i'd say fantasy again because it's popular.

Very good point. For me, fantasy also strips down all the smoke-and-mirrors of our technological age and addresses things on a very base, primal level whether we're talking about questions of good vs. evil, folklore, mythology, brute force vs. compassion and wisdom, etc. For me personally, this makes a more enjoyable play environment whereas sci-fi is all too often one person's often jack-assed speculation of what the future might be like with blinking lights and flying cars.

Personally, I prefer fantasy and always have in novels, film, and pen-and-paper games. In terms of MMORPGs, I just find sci-fi environments somewhat sterile and lifeless. When sci-fi is done right and imaginatively I love it just as much as fantasy, but in the gaming world, I have yet to find the sci-fi MMORPG that translates as well as fantasy does. I think STO has the potential to introduce a sci-fi world I would love to immerse myself in if the devs handle the property correctly. In a way, I think fantasy has it easier since it's roots stereotypically lay in medieval-type culture whereas badly executed sci-fi can look awfully dated and silly very quickly. (Why do 80% of avatars in sci-fi games look like rejects in lacrosse uniforms carrying supersoakers?)

Stop being silly, people. If you think you wasted your time playing SWG, you'll learn what a true waste of time is when you attempt to sue Sony with no legitimate grounds whatsoever. Grow up and devote your energies to something that's actually beneficial to humanity.

Originally posted by howtoland

Dear force that governs the laws of space and time:

Please make Warhammer cost $30 a month, with the retail box checking in at $150. I would gladly work overtime to pay these prices and happily shell out $30 a month just to have a community where children who cannot formulate a proper sentence are too poor to play with me. These children ruin games, and are the reason the MMO market has been dumbed down so that a chimpanzee with down's syndrome and nubs for fingers could make a 2100 rating arena team in World of Warcraft.

 

Please, keep our community free of pimply faced preteens and angst-ridden high schoolers.

 

-Local Forum Troll

Scary thing is, I almost agree with you. I'm sure the absentee parents who let their kids squander their teen years being inactive in front of a computer monitor with little to no genuine social interaction with the real world will gladly shell out the extra $15 bucks a month to keep their kids out of their hair, though. Here's to the obese serial killers of tomorrow!

Originally posted by Tenebroso

Originally posted by Dracus

At this time Vanguard is a business failure. 

Over $30 million spent, one company folded, jobs lost, not enough revenue to turn a profit.

Under new management, but still has poor subscriber performance and sales, unable to turn a profit.

 

Many believe this defines a business failure, but few do not.

 

He said it

Originally posted by chaokhan

I have played alot of MMO's and can honestly say that there are parts to all of them that I like and dislike.  So what parts were really good from other games that were/are worth saving?

Originally posted by Decadentia

 

Originally posted by ImixZinz

WAR, created by the Mythic development team which brought us DAOC, the most highly acclaimed RvR game ever released.

 

WoW, created by Blizzard entertainment which has done jack squat in MMO history.

 

If thats not the biggest difference i don't know what is.

 

Except create history, and forever change it. Honestly man?

"Create history and forever change it?" Nothing against WoW, but c'mon. Would you describe Britney Spears as forever changing history simply because she has sold millions of records? Not to minimize her achievements, but on an artistic, compelling level, she has a very limited range. Many people feel the same way about Blizzard. WoW introduced the MMORPG to a wide, mainstream audience which is a significant accomplishment within our little genre (MMORPGs) but if we look at the actual content of the game, there's nothing earth shattering there. A solid, well put-together game, IMHO, but what about WoW itself do you think will go down in the annals of MMORPG history besides turning the multiplayer, online RPG from a niche genre into a pop culture phenomenon? I've always argued that Blizzard is an amazing business model, but as developers they can be somewhat flat and unoriginal.

Originally posted by healz4u

It is a moot issue (the conclusion we reach will be of little or no consequence).  Vanguard is not Dark and Light (pun intended).  It is not a black or white question.  Rather, it is not a binary question:  success or failure?  It is a success for many; it is a failure for many.  Any discussion of the matter will be a profound rhetorical exercise in futility, laden with personal insults and perspectives of opinion that many believe to be fact. 

---

 

Perhaps we can reach agreement on the following to resolve this matter: 

 

Was the release of Vanguard a failure? Yes.

 

Is Vanguard a commercial failure?  Unknown.*

 

Is Vanguard a creative failure?  Some say yes, while others say no; still others say both.

---

 

*SIGIL was a commercial failure, but now SOE is responsible for VG's commercial success.

Originally posted by RedwoodSap

I have got an idea that might just work.

What if SOE paid people to play Vanguard. Ok OK so maybe not by the hour but  like $25 a month. What do you think?

I'd still have to pass.

Unfortunately, after it's premature release and lackluster reception, I don't see this game roping in any significant amount of new players. It was released to appeal to a niche market, so SOE risks losing the only players moderately interested in this lemon if they try to switch things around. They turned EQ2 around into a success, but that franchise had a good reputation and a powerful license behind it. I think the fact that V:SoH can be accessed from their station pass is the only thing that will keep this game alive.

Originally posted by jor8888

maybe ppl are sick of having to pay to play WoW while 7 mill of asian get to play for free including the xpac?

 

 

In the U.S., even if you're not swimming in cash, paying approximately 50 cents a day for entertainment is not a lot to ask for. Whatever Blizzard works out with their Asian providers is probably appropriate to keep them competitive in those nations where the average income is only a fraction of what we make here. I'm sure they make up for subscription rates in other ways (remember their advertising partnership with Coke in China a couple years back?)

Originally posted by JaeSwift

The day they fix rep grinds and do something about the ''cant live with it, cant live without it'' DKP system is the day I'll come back to WoW.

Yeah, I think that's why a ton of people got burnt on this title so quickly. I also think its funny when people whine about expansions because their gear will be obselete. Isn't the point of an MMORPG is that the game is constantly evolving? If you reached a plateau, you'd move on to another game. The key is creating expansions that do feel like an evolution, rather than a reworking of tired concepts and continued timesinks in the form of rep grinding and revisiting the same old crap over and over again.

Originally posted by sebbonx

Originally posted by Odenathus

 

---

.

And you voted! And your vote was heard! And the powers that be, responded! And WoW was born! Be happy! Be friendly, family oriented, have a career and play!

 

Leave us our niche game.

 

Let any investors or game company stupid enough to ever create a game for you suffer the consequences of games like VSoH!

Originally posted by moostown

I know this is pretty early footage but in my experience mmorpgs don't change "THAT" much in the last year of development to fix all the problems i have with these videos. I mean i've had high hopes for this game of a well animated DARK fantasy game that just looks really great. After Pauls videos explaining all the spells and stuff and making it seem so great you look at them and think "this is worse than a game that came out 4 years ago" lol.

http://www.whmovies.com/movieview.php?id=31
http://www.whmovies.com/movieview.php?id=32
http://www.whmovies.com/movieview.php?id=29
http://www.whmovies.com/movieview.php?id=28

Take these movies for example all linked on the website http://www.whmovies.com/.


They just look soooo lifeless and dull, the animations are sooo piss poor and the spell effects really aint much better. It all looks too simple and when you see melee all you get is the same boring slow swing over and over again. The spells are all really colourful and bright and it's like wheres the dark side of Warhammer in them? I really hope the floating caster and Giant animations are polished before release cause they're both soooo horrible. Wheres all the atmosphere and lighting effects? It just feels like you've created a generic basic map for CS and no artistic style or stmosphere coming through to the game at all.

The controlling also looks really akward and horrible which hopefully is something to fix cause in combat why would you just stand still and do attacks like that? It's what ruined DAOC for me and hopefully will be fixed with WAR because the combat just doesn't look any fun, it's at Vangaurd SOH standard atm. Combat should look fast and exciting like what SWG used to be like or what WOW looks like where your never standing still for too long and great effects and movement makes a difference. I just hope it controls more like SWG, EQ2 or WOW and nothing like the horrible DAOC.

Another point i'll make is why use the same engine DAOC used? It looks soooo dated and with games like Agency coming out using Unreal engine 3 and Age of Conan (though bad character models) even Single player games like Crysis, WAR is going to look like it's 7 years old. Bad graphics does several things for me and it means less character customization and everyone will look the same + less Role playing and bad textures etc etc.

 

Edit:   + Auto facing is just bad and you should be able to look where ever you want in combat like WOW and not like EQ2.

 

Oh and the most annoying spell effect award goes to this Dwarf which seemed to have this spell on him ALL the time. It's like imagien that beam off light hiding your character being on him through his fights lol? Stupid if you ask me...

You'll see it on this video: http://files.filefront.com/Gamesday+WHAwmv/;8110776;;/fileinfo.html

 

I dunno i'm increasingly becoming less excited about WAR as time goes by.

Then simply don't play it.

Originally posted by CognetoJoe

 

Originally posted by Lucifrank

Originally posted by CognetoJoe

spoiled is to light of word. It ruined the community. It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here. The area is over flowing with noobs who just because they p[played WoW and only WoW they are the end all be all on mmo discussion. I played a lot of mmos and I would never grant myself the obscenity of telling other that my words are god, and I find most WoW players attitude is that they are the word when it comes to mmos.

 but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.

I stand by that statement. I got into mmos because of the main branch of the community was not large and the people where usually friendly and entertaining, You had a niche genre witha niche crowd, kind of like a mod community. That is no longer the case, the community is not as what i've known , it is strictly a profit struggle now, no one does anything inside the community that is selfless or charititable anymore. People played mmos because they wanted, not because the commercials looked cool ....

 

 

Are you talking about that player base that made golden selling a multi billion a year industry. The player base that is to lazy to level there own characters, the player base that looks to india for cheap leveling services ? Yes , these problems existed before WoW but not on the scale that it is grown to now.

That post is a broad generalization that pigeonholes a ton of people who your description does not accurately describe. Yes, MMORPGs are no longer a niche genre with a niche crowd, but that community of friendly, entertaining people can be found across the board in any game, regardless of the simplicity or complexity of its game mechanics.

Originally posted by CognetoJoe

spoiled is to light of word. It ruined the community. It let people into mmo genre who sjhouldn't be here. The area is over flowing with noobs who just because they p[played WoW and only WoW they are the end all be all on mmo discussion. I played a lot of mmos and I would never grant myself the obscenity of telling other that my words are god, and I find most WoW players attitude is that they are the word when it comes to mmos.

Fascinating. So there's certain people who "shouldn't" be allowed to play MMORPGs? And this is based on what? If you're that discriminating and closed to different types of people discovering the genre, perhaps you should stick to single player RPGs or better yet, stick to pen-and-paper games around the kitchen table with the elite few you deem "should be here." I can't stand a good 80% of everyone I meet, and admittedly, that's one of the reasons I enjoy escapist endeavours like MMORPGs so damn much, but that doesn't mean others should be excluded from the community. Sure, it's kind of sucky that MMORPGs are no longer the exclusive safe haven for losers, recluses, and misanthropes, but a more diverse player base pushes the boundaries of the games (and what these games can become) as well as the boundaries of the people playing them, which at the end of the day, will be a good thing.

Originally posted by Baseline

When you think about it, WoW has really spoiled the MMO community. For a lot of people, WoW is the default game when the current newer game they are trying fails. Now, everyone looks at new games coming out with such a high standard. MMO developers today are pushing their game launches back to polish them up more (look at Warhammer), because there no longer is that 1-3 month buffer after the game comes out where people stick through the tough times and wait for the game to get better.

I think gaming "addiction" is a symptom rather than games being something that CAUSES addiction independent of other factors. MMORPGs can be time consuming and create a convenient fantasy world for someone who is depressed or exhibits obsessive behaviors to escape into. But to single out MMORPGs as somehow creating addiction is off-base, IMHO. If there weren't MMORPGs, people would find other means to escape, whether through substance abuse, comic books, or movies and t.v.