I think with an isometric game, it could work, the combat, that is.

In fact, certain skillshots from dota are able to put your team at a huge advantage irregardless of how "farmed" you are, a level 7 earthshaker could turn a fight around against 5 level 25s in dota, so why not in MMO? If Dota 2 has proven anything is that the whole "spell resistance" bullcrap dividing high levels from low levels is completely unnecesary and limites the game a lot.

But why instancing? I imagine a Lineage II-like siege with Dota-like combat and Lineage: Eternal graphics, and I cant help but jizz my pants.

Originally posted by EvilestTwin

Last I heard this game runs on CryEngine 3.   The number of MMO players in the West with rigs that can run this well AND are interested in playing it probably isn't very high. 

I could do a 2D "snake" game with cryengine 3 your gameboy could run. Engine=tools to build a game, and the OMG crysys graphics are just one of the tools that could be used, or could be ditched.

The number of classes is self impossed limitation and marketing. A game with 1 class: Whatever is the most versatile one, you choose your playstyle as you go, instead of chosing your playstyle on the first 3 minutes of your adventure.

Originally posted by Unlight

Originally posted by Unlight

Remarkable vid.  I don't know anything about the Lineage series.  What are the chances of seeing it localized for North America?

Heh, it just keeps getting easier to watch Diablo disappear in the rearview mirror.

That wasn't a rhetorical question; I'd actually like to cure my ignorance.  How well might it translate for western audiences based on the previous games in the franchise?

Both Lineage I and II were localized for North America and Europe, so 100% chances?

I too am starting again, back in my day it was all about->

Grind to 78, start subclass, grind subclass, become noblesse, try to become hero. And raids on antharas/valaks/baium as soon as they spawned.

Has the metagame changed a lot? What steps would you add there?

Lineage II had some amazing ideas, and a pretty controversial way to secure those ideas were played as they should, it's not a game for everyone, but I'd dare to say that it's probably the second biggest MMO in history, and that in EU and USA the private servers scene was thriving and pretty much almost everybody has at least played it a bit.

Ignoring what L2 accomplished due to that way of wrapping it up with infinte grind would be a mistake, as OP said, the PvP system is praised by many and those sieges were a feat no game has repeated. Even L2 seems to shy away from some of the things they did right in the past though.

I hope Archeage gets the good things from L2 and improves upon the dullness of its grind, a grind that is necessary though, as long as you want to motivate players interaction.

Holy shit this must be the most biased and worst review ever seen in this site.

Very bad idea.

Choices aren't always good, many people resign to play on PvP servers because they don't know different or because they like the PvE and bear with the PvP, give them a safe route and they will take it, killing the PvP on the proccess.

PvP games need victims, I know, it might sound crude but it's the truth, and PvP games are completely unsutainable without them, because for someone to win there has to be someone who loses.

@ lobotomist:

Because you won't be able to win anyway, the one who wins this tournament would win it regardless of how open the tournament was.

It's better to spend time in Hon because when Dota 2 comes you don't want bad habits created by league of legends. Hon is a game that is certainly easier to pick up than Dota, and will help you transition smoothly into that game.

League of legends would just teach you bad habits that will be hard to change and you'll probably suffer from that in Dota 2.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by awia

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by awia

Originally posted by nteger

LOL is a much higher quality product. It is supported better, updated more, has a much better community (even despite having a pretty lousy one sometimes), and the dev team is much more creative. HON is essentially a clone of DOTA just with different names and while the graphics may be better than LOL's, the engine is a piece of crap and the animations are very choppy. Also, the community sucks in HON. Did I mention HON's community is terrible?

 Um, yea dont listen to this guy, last time i checked Lol doesnt even have a pause feature or a spectator mode. Hon is updated every 2 weeks, the devs are very active. Hon also went f2p like a day ago, so yea you have to grind heroes now.

serious riot sucks at developing.....this was at their E3

"Hey guys we got 3 new TANKS coming!, oh yeah we also got spectator mode coming soon too"

and that was it, very creative, and S2's engine is far better than riots, it even have built in voice chat, it is stupid for a competitive game to come out without voice chat, spectator mode, or pause feature.

HON has a couple of features LoL doesn't, the issue is that HON usually has around 60k people around playing while LoL easily has 500k at a peak hour.

Other part is that existing HoN players who spent their $40 are a bit upset with the 'spend money or you are 2 champion behind' issue they have.

 It doesnt matter how many people are playing at peak hour because at the end of the day only 10 people can play in a game. When you have to go through loopholes and 3rd party programs to do things a basic competitive game is supposed to do then the game has a problem. There was even an issue where a team lost a shot at $100,000 at a major tournament because one of their players disconected for  minutes, and people want to take this game seriously

Irony is that HoN developer S2 doesn't (or can't) host tournaments LoL developer Riot does.

The number of players playing a game is something someone might look for before deciding what to play.

Esp if the numbers are 8-10 times larger.

At the end of the day, I have respect for Riot for actually putting a sizable sum by hosting these tournements and trying to grow e-sports.

No idea wtf you're talking about, but there are tons of Hon tournaments. Riot didn't even get official tournament status in dreamhack while Hon got it, and will get it again this winter with a bigger prizepool, and Hon will be present in next NASL and MLG, and probably some more to come.

The number of players in this game only affects you in the number of games you might get per day. Hon is quite healthy and it's growing. Anyway, Dota 2 will take over soon so as I said before, playing LoL now will just create bad habits.

There's no reason to play Lol, you play Hon until Dota 2 comes out and that's all you need. Lol will just dumb you down and you'll have troubles in Dota 2.

No surprise. Sites over there threaten companies with a lack of coverage if they decide to place a NDA in their games. Wish sites over here were half as ballsy, because companies need websites to cover their games, not the other way around.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by tank017

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by tank017

Thats the only real reason Im hesitant about this game and TERA..

 

its from an Asian company.

Racist? Stereotpying? Discrimination? Bigot? Partial? Contradistinguish? Disfavour? Victimizing? Condescending? Segregating?

 

ok I'll stop

 

Just because one game from a culture is set a certain way, does not mean the next game is set to be just like that, just like how the first Bioware game is good, does not guarantee the next bioware game is good, every game in the western culture is reviewed and judged on its own, you won't say "oh Dragon Age 2 is SO good, because Dragon Age: Origins is SO good", why say I'm hesitant about TERA and ArcheAge because it is from a Asian company. 

I don't have a problem with you hesitant about a game grindy or easy or whatever, but saying Asian company is a reason is just discrimination, XL games hasn't even make a game before as a company.

 Actually I was referring to their MMO's,not the actual race.

 

and yeah,I think pretty much all(which is alot) of their MMO's are on the sucky side so far.

When you called it made by an Asian Company, you kinda labelled a race onto it.

Just because one company made a bad game, doesn't mean another company on the same continent, or in the same country in this regard, is going to the same mistakes, especially since XL games is a newly founded company (well not too new, but this is their first game, which is in production for a few years now), and have stated this mmo is mainly targetted at Western Audience, and their particular playstyle.

So for an example, WoW, a lot of people don't like how simple the game is, but is that going to make them hesitant from playing Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3? The company is the same, certainly philosphy is similar, why is that a lot of people who don't like WoW can still hold the other two games I mentioned in such high regards? Because they judged the game on its own.

I just read my previous post again, and I seemed to have come off as a bit aggressive, so I apologise for that , but I was just trying to state my mind. I don't mind people say this game is bad, or it is not for them, but using a reason like it is made by an Asian Company is, and I still feel, racist in a certain way, you judged the game on it's developer's race. Call the game grindy all you like, but calling it asian is just inappropiate.

Now, I like this game, and I enjoy multiple asian games, but the "racist" card never applies in these cases. There are some Korean citizens that enjoy a certain race of dog's meat, am I racist for not liking what those Koreans eat? Then why am I racist if I don't like the videogames some Koreans play? Just leaving this here because racist accusations are thrown away way too often, and sometimes too lightly. You don't need to enjoy a foreign culture, you only have to respect it and their right to have it.

The ammount of gold farmers will always rely on the demand. Is this a gold farmer's paradise? Hard to know without understanding how the gold demand will be, and harder to know without knowing who will be taking care of this game in the western market.

We would need to know more about the equipment system, the economy of the game and the drop rates. Knowing where it's from says little, even if your experience says it does, you haven't played all the korean made MMOs since many of them have a low value on gold, rendering gold farmers useless.

Also, I want to add that, as an avid MMO player, the efforts NCsoft did to remove gold farmers from Aion on the second month after the release were remarkable, which doesn't excuse the awfull first month, though.

Originally posted by Consensus

personally this is one of the ideas that people always want which looks good on paper but would never work well in the actual game. but meh we'll see, wont be surprised if this idea gets cut at release thoguh like in every other game.

Why wouldn't it work? Seems pretty simple, and adds a security layer for players, which is necessary.

Isn't Aion the second most played MMO in the western market?

Originally posted by elocke

Those predictions would be fairly accurate IF this was just a sandbox or just a themepark.  However, it is a combination of the 2 (FINALLY, about time!), a themepark/sandbox hybrid, and I think this alone will change the playing field.  It should appeal to both types of players.

Certain things are dependant on certain factors as well.  For example.  Grind.  Grind is usually only complained about when 2 things happen

a.  combat is boring or not fast enough or doesn't flow right making it seem tedious.  thereby making killing mobs a grind.

b.  not enough rewards while questing/killing/leveling to make you not think about your levels.  In other words, again, if someone levels 5 times and doesn't recieve any type of progression other than a stat gain, most people will gripe.  However, if one gets items, skills, or other things during the process and at the correct intervals, the "grind" is un noticeable.

I give you Aion and Lineage as prime examples of how grind in the 2 instances above is percieved.  Aion refers to A while Lineage refers to B

Granted, that's a small portion of the game, but one that stood out to me personally as their major negatives.  Some may not agree, but some will.

As long as I'm busy and having fun, any type of Grind won't be on my mind.  That's how became so successful.  It hid the grind under rewards and fun combat. (sure it's old now, but it was a blast of fresh air 6 years ago)

The other thing about PVE and the whole "there's no raids/dungeons/etc" I think that's only been the general consensus of late due to WoW and nothing changing that endgame play since then.  I think if a game offers enough alternative endgame modes that are fun, then this attitude will change.  We just need a developer to take that risk.  Hence, ArcheAge.

I think there's another factor to the grind perception, in fact, in many games i'd argue that the only one that matters: People's ego.

If everyone played the same ammount of time/as effectively as the rest, grind complains would be reduced to 0. People's ego are the reason gold selling companies exist, people's ego is the only reason some games are perceived as grinders.

Grind is completely necessary in MMORPGs for a casual interaction of players. Imagine a game like L2 without grind: Most of the game's features revolve around that grind, the conflict was created through parties clashing for good grind spots, politics were shaped through area control. Those who expect archeage to have no grind are in for a dissapointment, the question is which degree of importance will the devs give to time investment, if players feel they are "almost there" regardless of the ammount of hours they play, people will not feel this is a grinder, so they have to reward the grind, they have to reward the hardcore, but only for a slight bonus. Make them look for an edge, but dont let that edge define battles outcome.

I enjoy Dota style PvP and RTS so I voted "other", no idea why mmorpg developers dont ever try a similar formula, with the twitch style mixed with collaborative efforts and a lot of variables to make every combat different.

Originally posted by stringboi

And why do we need more buttons to mash?  I'd say, the simpler the better....let the combat revolve around movement and tactics.  I always hated having 4, 6...even 8 bars of crap...why? 

So much truth in these words. I currently play Heroes of Newerth (dota clone), at a somewhat competitive level, a game that's 90% about the combat, a combat consisting of 4 skills, not more, and I can guarantee it's the most fun I've had in years.

Not saying that more skills=boring combat, just saying that the number of sklls has little to do with the combat's quality, lots of skills have more to do with carpal tunnel problems though.

I haven't played the game, and not sure if I will, not really interested in some of the game's concepts, but it seemed to me like the reviewer wanted to nitpick something for credibility, since saying things that "could be bad" balances the review a bit, even though it might be completely off considering repetitive combat at low levels is a problem every single MMO has due to the low difficulty AI and due to setting a game's difficulty to the lowest common denominator.

I'll start with the 3 biggest AOE based branches, for epic farming, and then, at some point when I'm sitting on a mountain of money and items, I'll go full nuker.

I'll be playing with 2 friends, one of them will do the same as me, but will end up as a melee killer, the other will go support/healer to heal us while we kill trains of mobs.