You won't see me on XFire but I just can't stand it any longer, gonna have to buy this sucker this afternoon. I held off at launch because A) I was burned out after a year of betaing B) I was dissapointed in the space combat C) I knew it would be que city during launch and Christmas and wanted to save myself the anoyance D) I was busier than a cat trying to cover it's poop in the middle of a asphalt parking lot the last couple of weeks. But today we just had our first really cold day and I just can't stand it any longer. See you guys ingame, gotta run to Wally World anyway

To my knowledge Raph has done 2 games. UO and SWG.  SWTOR had more sales the first day than both of those combined. While SWTOR does not really introduce anything new and groundbreaking, it is still a fun game init's own rights and isn't that the real purpose of a game? It's worth the 60 bucks even if you get bore with it in 2 or 3 months.

one side of me wants to point out that AoC had a million the first week also, but the other side knows I am just waiting till summer and I will be buying and playing it too.

Originally posted by Royalkin

Who Is Really Crafting?

 

This is about crafting, and the recent change in mechanic design to allow companions/NPCs to craft for player characters.

Recent? crafting was been done by the companions since crafting ws introduced in beta. That is one of  the things I really liked about the game, no time sink of sitting in a crafting hall making igots or whatever. With only 1 comapnion it has to be timed at first to coincide with your town runs or at logout but once you get your second and third companions you can kick some items out

I predict massive numbers of players will hit 50 withe their firsr toon in a month, start a alt and be wearing out their space bars to skip the voiceovers, by the time that get that toon to 50 they will be asking themselves "is this all there is ?"

Originally posted by Angelfire

Originally posted by Siveria

No and Defently no, the game offers no real replay value really. Class storylines might be a bit diffrent but your tunneled thru the exact same planets over and over with the exact same quests.

How is this different then other mmos exactly? I seem to recall passing through the same zones repeatedly in EQ, EQ2, LOTRO, WoW and even Rift.. all while doing quests that seem shockingly familiar. Congrats.. you just discribed the MMORPG genre to date.

 

Okay so its not new. Its damn fun... I enjoyed it and I am a veteran of all the MMOs above. I don't know if it will surpass X game in anything, but I do believe it will be a broad success and have staying power. For my 2c it has more replayability then most of the others cause I find raiding to be boring as hell and I tend to fade out of games around my second or third alt because of the gear grind at the end and the repeated (shockingly mirroring your sentiment..) running of the same few raids over and over. At least with SWTOR I have 8 unique stories to play through to the end. For someone who cares about the RPG in MMORPG thats a big draw.

quite true on most points but SWTOR missed the mark on several things that the above MMOs have going for them. WoW has better performance  for lower end computers. EQ is just frigging huge and has some great RP tools such as housing , customizable armor etc, ditto for LoTRO. I betaed the game since last year and trust me by the time you have ran your second toon to 50 , the game gets old. At least it did for me, I doubt if I played more than 3 or 4 hours total during the last 3 beta builds when at first I was playing every chance I could..

what I am hoping and waiting for  is improved space game and more social game features. To me right now this game is just a single player game with a subscription unless you PvP

Originally posted by evilastro

 

No. You cant.

There is not a single class where spamming a super macro would be effective in SWTOR.

Also you are talking about low level content designed for small groups....

agree

I found solo combat needs a sequence. Start with a high power usage skill, the a low usage one, then a high power one then a low etc. And I am using the phrase power as generic term for ammo etc. Same thing just differnt name for each class.

yes and maybe if they start pumping in more features and content for the PvE and old school RP crowd. If I had decided to purchase I would have leveled 1 character to 50 then another as far as I could the next month then canceled the way things stand now.

I will bet the game will have huge intitial sells and a smooth launch, other than ques. However I also will bet it will have a huge churn rate and server merges in a year if they do not come up with some more end game PvE content. Great game but for me at least it falls into the catagory of a 1 or 2 months worth of content UNLESS I went PvP and my guild is rolling on a PvE server. Been playing with some of these guys since DAoC and won't change guilds now. BTW I think it is a good game at it's core and well worth purchasing just for the three months but after playing beta for months I am burned out on it.

Originally posted by Silax
Wow. Griping about outfits. The game hasn't even been released yet. I'm sure this time next year there will be more flamboyant and pointless outfits than you can shake a stick at especially when they have already stated that an appearance tab was coming. Of all the things to gripe about, this has to be the lowest of importance to me.

did you ever stop and think that maybe whatever it is that you find important in a MMO might be of the lowest importance to me? Anyway reading comprehension for the win, it is not just the outfits the gripe was about the overall lack of character customization for  MMO releasing in this day and age. Bioware lack of experiance in MMOs really shows. Most of the people I play with want their characters to be unique as possible, if that is of no importance to you then thats your problem not mine. subscripton.

It is a good solid basic game, with fun gameplay  but in a lot of ways it reminds me of MMO's of ten years ago. I just don't see the point in buying it right now after betaing it for the last year. It is not just one thing that caused me to cancel my pre order, it is a combinatiojn of severl things. Maybe in a year when they have added and improved some things I will reconsider. I don't think they are going to miss me since I am estimating release to be at 1 million plus, maybe even two.

Originally posted by raistlinm

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by raistlinm

I can't think of a single mmorpg that has more than a handful of differend looks for each class so kind of lost on what it is you are harping about in regards to TOR.

Now to be honest it's never made a bit of difference to me what other people look like because I'm usually too busy enjoying myself to worry about something so silly but I'd sure like to know of what games have these limitless choices.

 

Download LoTRO, stand in the center of Bree on a Saturday evening and you will bnever see two characters wearing the same outfits. There are probably even 15 or 20 different horse styles.

 

Wait till you play and you are standing in a market and you see 12 otehr gunslingers as you all wearing the same armor and all with the same named companion. That may not botehr you but to me it is just annoying.

Don't need to download LOTRO I play it most weekends and having a few different max level toons (champion,RK,Minstrel,Captain) I can say that the armor models are not all that different looking.  Atleast not enough that I would disparage what I've seen from TOR.

Now let's also not forget that using your example I would be encountering people of every level from start to max as well as people who are using the appearance tab (which was one reason I disagreed with TOR not using a traditional appearance tab).

But I haven't seen all that much variety in LOTRO that I could say TOR is doing somethin wrong at this point.

really and how many dye colors are in LoTRO right now? How many cosmetic outfits can you wear that will affect only your appearance and not your armor stats. Compare that to SWTOR. How many different looking horses are there? Compare that to the variety of speeders in SWTOR

Like I said SWTOR has some great points, but character customization is not one of them

Originally posted by Teilo

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Fed1

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Fed1

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Jackdog

Oh it will be a huge success, just expect a large amount of player churn. As long as you look at it a single player game with some MMO options you won't be dissapointed.

Or, even better, you can look at it for what it is:  An actual, very solid MMO.

 

 

really ? . You could play this game to 50 and never talk to another soul and you character will not suffer.

REALLY? LOL

OK in the world according to Jack based on your criteria

WoW not a MMO

SWG Not a MMO

Vanguard Not a MMO

CoH Not a MMO

STO not a MMO

Rift Not a MMO

list goes on and on

....

I have been here since my SWG days. MMORPG never disapoints for the Drama and Ludicrous posts like this one. Its really gives me chuckles. Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming you don't mind seeing 37 other guys at the marketplace wearing the exact same armor that is the exact same color of yours 

 

 

 

Because you asked :-)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=717041

 

So, I can take my level 7 LS and level 12 robes and and wear them at level 50 - in addition to all of the other orange items from 1-50

 

 

 

 

wel if you want want to wear a lvl 12 robe at 50 feel free, but I doubt if you will because it will not have as many modification  slots as the 40's gear. Mods only affect the stats of the gear, nothing visual. The higher level the gear the more slots it will have that you can drop mods into.  The mods themselves are  color coded  in the same way, purples are to dye for while greens are a dime a dozen. Even the crafting recipes are color coded and I love the game crafting system.

What the Dev in that post is referring to is the class of the gear, green being the lowest, then blue, then purple, and now orange. Green Blue Purple and orange is just the color of the name of the gear, not the gear itself. The mod system is a good system and one of the things I really like about the game but what I was referring to is the ability to change my armor's appearance from white with black trim to all black just as a example.

The gane has some realy good points, it is certainly not a Vanguard or a AoC. I just don't see it as a long term game as of now, maybe after a year but not as it stands.

Edit BTW a male Commando wearing pink armor..I can just see it now LOL

 

 

Aren't you describing what he's saying was the old system?

" in the old system, you could not take any piece of gear, fit it with the best mods and keep it all the way to the end levels: a lot of the green gear did not have all the slots, the mods that could be obtained were for the most part... not good, and you could not extract better one from existing gear. "

I am talking about the last build, otherwise wht would anyone bother trying to craft anything above the beginer recipes. You want to wear lvl 10 gear to 50 ten feel free but have your rez robot handy. And yes one of the changes they made was you can now pull your mods out for a small fee, but trust me you will outlevel them as wel as outlevel the base mods of the gear

Anyway ebnough of the red herring, all the armor looks the same was  the original point

Originally posted by raistlinm

I can't think of a single mmorpg that has more than a handful of differend looks for each class so kind of lost on what it is you are harping about in regards to TOR.

Now to be honest it's never made a bit of difference to me what other people look like because I'm usually too busy enjoying myself to worry about something so silly but I'd sure like to know of what games have these limitless choices.

Download LoTRO, stand in the center of Bree on a Saturday evening and you will bnever see two characters wearing the same outfits. There are probably even 15 or 20 different horse styles.

Wait till you play and you are standing in a market and you see 12 otehr gunslingers as you all wearing the same armor and all with the same named companion. That may not botehr you but to me it is just annoying.

Originally posted by Fed1

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Fed1

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Jackdog

Oh it will be a huge success, just expect a large amount of player churn. As long as you look at it a single player game with some MMO options you won't be dissapointed.

Or, even better, you can look at it for what it is:  An actual, very solid MMO.

 

 

really ? . You could play this game to 50 and never talk to another soul and you character will not suffer.

REALLY? LOL

OK in the world according to Jack based on your criteria

WoW not a MMO

SWG Not a MMO

Vanguard Not a MMO

CoH Not a MMO

STO not a MMO

Rift Not a MMO

list goes on and on

....

I have been here since my SWG days. MMORPG never disapoints for the Drama and Ludicrous posts like this one. Its really gives me chuckles. Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

Assuming you don't mind seeing 37 other guys at the marketplace wearing the exact same armor that is the exact same color of yours 

 

 

 

Because you asked :-)

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=717041

 

So, I can take my level 7 LS and level 12 robes and and wear them at level 50 - in addition to all of the other orange items from 1-50

 

 

 

 

wel if you want want to wear a lvl 12 robe at 50 feel free, but I doubt if you will because it will not have as many modification  slots as the 40's gear. Mods only affect the stats of the gear, nothing visual. The higher level the gear the more slots it will have that you can drop mods into.  The mods themselves are  color coded  in the same way, purples are to dye for while greens are a dime a dozen. Even the crafting recipes are color coded and I love the game crafting system.

What the Dev in that post is referring to is the class of the gear, green being the lowest, then blue, then purple, and now orange. Green Blue Purple and orange is just the color of the name of the gear, not the gear itself. The mod system is a good system and one of the things I really like about the game but what I was referring to is the ability to change my armor's appearance from white with black trim to all black just as a example.

The gane has some realy good points, it is certainly not a Vanguard or a AoC. I just don't see it as a long term game as of now, maybe after a year but not as it stands.

Edit BTW a male Commando wearing pink armor..I can just see it now LOL

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

---

Originally posted by Icewhite

---

Originally posted by lizardbones
I wonder this too, not specifically about Falin, but about a lot of the accounts that dislike SWToR. Why are they all Novice accounts? I've been on these forums for years, and I don't think I've seen so many Novice accounts*.
 

---

Well, the paranoid answer would be Many Alts--the players who created a dozen or so alts with their first one.  Which suggests some nefarious possibilities involving organized viral marketing.
Less paranoid, players who discovered (when trying to create a new account) that they already had one, four or five years old.

---

It seems odd that there are so many novice accounts, all critical of SWToR. A very vocal set of people who want everyone to know what's wrong with the game. Then you have polls, where people can't shout each other down or use whatever argue-fu they have built up over the years to prove their point. In those polls, SWToR does very well. Basically the opposite of the vocal posters. It's just very interesting, all of it.

 

what is not interesting is how fans of the game wil not acknowledge the games faults as well as it's virtues. You see the same old crap with every MMO. Fans swear it will be the best thing since sex, trolls swear it is not worth playing and you are a fool to buy it. Honest reviewers get attacked from both sides because the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Originally posted by Fed1

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by Cthulhu23

Originally posted by Jackdog

Oh it will be a huge success, just expect a large amount of player churn. As long as you look at it a single player game with some MMO options you won't be dissapointed.

Or, even better, you can look at it for what it is:  An actual, very solid MMO.

 

 

really ? . You could play this game to 50 and never talk to another soul and you character will not suffer.

REALLY? LOL

OK in the world according to Jack based on your criteria

WoW not a MMO

SWG Not a MMO

Vanguard Not a MMO

CoH Not a MMO

STO not a MMO

Rift Not a MMO

list goes on and on

....

I have been here since my SWG days. MMORPG never disapoints for the Drama and Ludicrous posts like this one. Its really gives me chuckles. Thanks

 

 

 

whatever . As long as you are happy with Mass Effect II with lightsabers you will be thrilled with this game.

Assuming you don't mind seeing 37 other guys at the marketplace wearing the exact same armor that is the exact same color of yours  with the same named companion that you have. As long as you are happy with space combat straight from a Nontendo 64 game. As long as you are happy knowing that every other guy of your class has the exact same spaceship inside and out. As long as your expectations of socialization and guild functions are about  the same as what DAoC had at it's launch. As long as  you are coordinated enough to play and chat using you keyboard simotaiously or only group with your guildies so you can use vent or mumbles. And lets not forget that BW's idea of state of the art LFG is using the general chat window because what they provided as a LFG function cannot hold a candle to seeing  "Tnak LFG for Estelles" spammed on the global chat

None of that mattered in Mass Effect II because it was just you and the NPC's, but I expect more than Mass Effect II with a subscrption these days. BIoware makes a fantastic single player game , but the fact this is theiir first MMO shows up loud and clear.

BTW unless you are just trolling tell me how anything I posted above is wrong, not jus another  ad hom junior high personal attack.

Originally posted by crysent

For FC to convince me to buy another product of theirs I will need to see a beta on scale with SWtOR - fully open allowing everyone who wants to try it in.  Anything less and they are pulling their scam crap again like they did with AoC.

Trust me the scam crap of AoC was nothing compared to the scam crap of Anarchy Online's release. I have been burned not just once but twice by these guys so if I act a little suspicious that is why

Originally posted by kalinis

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Jackdog

I am sure I am going to get slammed by some of the fanboys on this one but I canceled my pre order this morning for a lot of the reasons the people in that vid seemed to feel. Don't get me wrong it is a really fun game in many many ways but misses the mark on a lot of things also. First thing I told all my gaming freinds is that if you enjoyed Biowares single player games this is a must buy and you will love it.

 I see the game as a really good single player game set in multi player mode. I don't see it as a long term game for most of us. There is too little character customization, every level 15 smuggler looks like ever other level 15 smuggler. The voice dialogue is fantastic as are the cut scenes the first couple of time, then they get old. The world graphics are gorgeous but feel sterile in an odd way.  The space game is billed as amini game to account for its faults, but have you ever seen a MMO mini game that gives char XP and coin rewards? There are other nitpicky things that annoy me about the game also but those are my major complaints,

Maybe I just have beta burnout, and I guarantee you if they ever do a space expansion that has JTL gameplay I will be buying and playing the heck out of it.  I  probably would not have canceled my pre order if my gaming friends had decided to roll on a PvP server, because the open world  PvP rocks in my opinion. My opinion is that if you liked BW's singler player games then the game is well worth the box price, but don't expect a long term game if you are a PvE only  player. It just is not there. The game is very good, but it is far from great. Although at this point in my gaming life I am not sure if any MMO will ever live up to my expectations.

Now excuse me while I put on my flame retardent suit.

No need for a suit. Enjoy whatever game you choose to follow next. I'm not much of a space game player so I really wouldn't have cared if it was in TOR at all. It's just a minigame at this point and if they expand on it, cool. If not, I could care less. There are some things that I want to them to improve on but they are so minor compared to the big picture. For me , I care about how fun the leveling process is in the game. If this had been just another boring quest grind ala WOW or like SWG where I have to join spin groups to level then I wouldn't touch this game. If the game gives me only three months entertainment then I'm fine with that.If I get more then that's icing on the cake. I'm not looking for a second life in a video game, so I'm not going to make a decision to cancel on that basis.

thanks for a reasonable reply. Only disagreement is the space game comment. If it is a mini game then why make the missions daily quests which grant  exp and credits ? Not to worry I argued the same thing on the beta boards for months. To me it seemed as if BW attmpted to straddle thee fence, they wanted people to play the "mini game" but did not want to put forth the effort and development to make it interesting enough to play on a regular basis. Gameplay factor is less than  what we had in Star Fox , but with better graphics.

Don't worry the game is easily worth the box price and a month or twos subscription, however it could have been so much more. The leveleing is fun as heck. But the replay or long term playibility is just not there.

I would have never canceled my pre order if they had just added in a few features I have come to expect in MMOs. Customizable housing, clothing dyes, voice chat would have been enough to keep me as a release player. Trust me it gets old seeing dozens of toons of your class all dressed the same and with the same companions running around the capitol world. As I said I may just have beta burnout

i disagree. To me the story is why it has so much replayability. The class stories are uniqe for all classes. So unlike wow where people ran zones 10 ore more times doing same stuff all the time, in tor even if u do same plaeets and do same quests over for planetary quests your class ones are completly unique

I saw way to many i wanna play all 8 classes, or i cant choose what class i wanna play now to think taht thats not a huge selling point with tor

i think this is being undervalued by to many people. I for one am one of those gonna level all 8 classes to max level. I will do the opposite ac for the mirrors so i dont really play the classes the same. 

i think people underestimate the pull of the class stories for players. More people will play multiple if not all the classes then people give this game credit for. So replayability is there as it is in any themepark as it has all the stuff themeparks do at end game. They also have the pve story on illum u can do solo

so there is alot of replayability that people just overlook 

Well you will certainly get your moneys worth if you play all 8 classes to 50. I could not play teh Imperila classes however, never been able to get into playing a evil dude since  UO where I had a super evil PK toon.

What you want to bet by the time you on your 4th iteration of "My girlfriend left me and I am too big a wimp to go look for her"  quest you are space barring your way through the non class quests. After all the class quests are maybe 10 to 15 of the game.

Like I said a lot of my issue is beta burnout, I just want to smack that sniveling NPC and tell him to find his girlfriend himself if he wants her back.  hmmm maybe I should buy it and play a imp.....

Originally posted by ktanner3

Originally posted by Jackdog

I am sure I am going to get slammed by some of the fanboys on this one but I canceled my pre order this morning for a lot of the reasons the people in that vid seemed to feel. Don't get me wrong it is a really fun game in many many ways but misses the mark on a lot of things also. First thing I told all my gaming freinds is that if you enjoyed Biowares single player games this is a must buy and you will love it.

 I see the game as a really good single player game set in multi player mode. I don't see it as a long term game for most of us. There is too little character customization, every level 15 smuggler looks like ever other level 15 smuggler. The voice dialogue is fantastic as are the cut scenes the first couple of time, then they get old. The world graphics are gorgeous but feel sterile in an odd way.  The space game is billed as amini game to account for its faults, but have you ever seen a MMO mini game that gives char XP and coin rewards? There are other nitpicky things that annoy me about the game also but those are my major complaints,

Maybe I just have beta burnout, and I guarantee you if they ever do a space expansion that has JTL gameplay I will be buying and playing the heck out of it.  I  probably would not have canceled my pre order if my gaming friends had decided to roll on a PvP server, because the open world  PvP rocks in my opinion. My opinion is that if you liked BW's singler player games then the game is well worth the box price, but don't expect a long term game if you are a PvE only  player. It just is not there. The game is very good, but it is far from great. Although at this point in my gaming life I am not sure if any MMO will ever live up to my expectations.

Now excuse me while I put on my flame retardent suit.

No need for a suit. Enjoy whatever game you choose to follow next. I'm not much of a space game player so I really wouldn't have cared if it was in TOR at all. It's just a minigame at this point and if they expand on it, cool. If not, I could care less. There are some things that I want to them to improve on but they are so minor compared to the big picture. For me , I care about how fun the leveling process is in the game. If this had been just another boring quest grind ala WOW or like SWG where I have to join spin groups to level then I wouldn't touch this game. If the game gives me only three months entertainment then I'm fine with that.If I get more then that's icing on the cake. I'm not looking for a second life in a video game, so I'm not going to make a decision to cancel on that basis.

thanks for a reasonable reply. Only disagreement is the space game comment. If it is a mini game then why make the missions daily quests which grant  exp and credits ? Not to worry I argued the same thing on the beta boards for months. To me it seemed as if BW attmpted to straddle thee fence, they wanted people to play the "mini game" but did not want to put forth the effort and development to make it interesting enough to play on a regular basis. Gameplay factor is less than  what we had in Star Fox , but with better graphics.

Don't worry the game is easily worth the box price and a month or twos subscription, however it could have been so much more. The leveleing is fun as heck. But the replay or long term playibility is just not there.

I would have never canceled my pre order if they had just added in a few features I have come to expect in MMOs. Customizable housing, clothing dyes, voice chat would have been enough to keep me as a release player. Trust me it gets old seeing dozens of toons of your class all dressed the same and with the same companions running around the capitol world. As I said I may just have beta burnout

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Jackdog

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by Naxrius

No matter how blatantly bad a game is, a fanboys vision will always be clouded, and to them it wil still seem awesome.

SWTOR will end up just like RIFT.

Just give up guys, wait for gw2 or keep playing WoW, but stop talking about swtor, is an amazing game and it will be huge success, for many many many years, well already is. So if the 5% didnt like the game, is ok, nothing gonna change. 

Oh it will be a huge success, just expect a large amount of player churn. As long as you look at it a single player game with some MMO options you won't be dissapointed.

Your comment is enough to show us that you know nothing about the game. 

yeah I only played 4 characters past lvl 40. I tremble before your vast knowledge.

BTW find any post I ever made where I said the game is not worth buying or trying. But when tha game is simply Mass Effect II set in a Star Wars universe with a multiplayer option. It is not bad, but it si certainly not what I would call a great step forward in multiplayer gaming either.