After playing all three WAR is as superior to WOW & EQ2 PVP wise as those two are to WAR's PVE.

Originally posted by Rayx0r

I guess some of you may not have been around then, or maybe your comparing your theme park to games like LotRO and WoW which is on the complete end of the theme park spectrum.  I will say EQ, as theme park as it was.. and yes.. it was.. doesnt compare to what we have now.

Sorry bud, EQ1 was not a theme park MMO especially pre Luclin. There are elements EQ1 introduced that were dumbed down for the masses in today's titles though. In their raw form some elements were implemented because the game was so unforgiving in the beginning.

There was no hand holding, lighted quest markers, the map filled in as you visited an area. You had to actually use you're compass. Travel was long, arduous and fraught with danger. Certain areas you couldn't even go to after dark due to Guard patrols, faction, giants or dragons.

Nope, doesn't sound like any Theme park title today at all. You logged in expecting to die that night it was a given. You had to find high level friends to help retrieve your armor if you died or it would decay.

None of these elements exist in today's games. With Luclin  teleportaion spires and that was due in large part to porters (Wizzy & Druid) who were price gouging. Even after you got a port  you still had a 2-3 zone run to most places.

Like another poster said the games back then were so difficult in their own way there was far less fanboy garbage. All of the fab four (UO, EQ, AC1 DAOC). had one area of game play the others couldn't match.

I had hard rock UO  PVP friends baffled at the complexity of EQ's raids. I had EQ friends who marveled at the crafting and skill system of AC1. And everyone knew they couldn't match DAOC's RVR.

Each of the Fab four had areas it excelled in and garnered respect. There's allot of revisionist history going on trying to label EQ1 a theme park MMO. People only get away with such nonsense because most old timers no longer play MMO's. Or frequent boards like these.

Crazy kids..

First off EQ1 was no theme park MMO so the premise of the original post is wrong..

If you ever played EQ1 you'd know better. From it's original release until Luclin EQ1 was one of the toughest unforgiving games created. Pre Luclin you could count on dying nightly from exploring. Corpse runs with no gear, high level mobs that  wandered onto paths, trains, long arduous travel. areas that meant certain death unless you were very smart. Faction cities where you were KOS (Kill on site).

Finally it had a raid game that actually required strategy. Even after POP's release it was no walk in the park.

While NGE is the most notorious nerf in MMO lore second place easily goes to Cryptic's hatchet job of COH.

The combined 1-2 punch of  issue 5's global defensive nerf and enhancement diversification easily cost them 30% of their player base. Trying to shoe horn in crafted IO's clearly designed around the Vilians expansion was a strategic blunder.

The game has never recovered and now nearly half it's servers are ghost towns.

NC Soft better bring it for the up coming Rogue expansion or it's curtains..

Originally posted by warmaster670

You shoudl change the title to "which mmo do you dislike the most?" since thats all this thread is.

Indeed, AION, EVE or LOTRO aren't going anymore than WOW is. Nice wishfull thinking but it ain't happening so move along..

Crazy Kids..

Originally posted by nAAtimus

What's wrong with games that promote soloing?  There are plenty of games that do not.

Nothing is wrong with a game that promotes soloing, in fact I wouldn't play one that didn't.

That being said the meat of any MMO should revolve around grouping. Soloing should be an alternative not the crux of the game. The best gear should also be tied to grouping. The best rewards should be reserved to those willing to work as a team to achieve a common goal.

In the early days most MMO's required grouping which that was too much. Now the needle has shifted too far in the other direction.

Originally posted by Gameloading

Originally posted by Zarraa

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by laiko

-Player maxes all graphic options to ultra, player sees 10fps, player goes into hate mode, player says I can have ultra on WoW, if I can't on Aion, I wont play, Aion sucks!-

-Player creates character on "popular server" is lvl 1 and experiences lag, player says ew Aion server sucks, Aion sucks period, player quits sub without trying other servers-

I'd just like to point out that Wow's engine is old, and any current upper low to mid range graphics card can get away with almost near max settings, and people need to understand that some other games might require an upgrade to their card.

Also that I dont play either WoW(anymore) or Aion so don't flame me for being a fanboy -_-.

 

Whether WOW's engine is old is irrelevant. If a player thinks that the graphics good, that is good enough. WOW's engine is old but the art direction is timeless and things still look good.

That itself is a BIG competitive advantage. If Aion cannot make a un-demanding graphics engine and make their scenes look good, it has no ground to complain about its competition who can do so.

WOW is a fun starter MMO but it's graphics are terrible...Period.

Lineage II, Guild Wars, LOTRO, Granado Espada (SOTNW) are examples of good art direction. WOW is not, so for the LAST time stop trying to add it to the great art direction list. Their goal was a game that could be played on a toaster and they succeded. Their bet payed off.

 That was the price they were prepared to pay for it to run on any pc.

Actually World of Warcraft has a great art direction. Its visuals are outdated from a technical perspective, sure, but from an artistic standpoint the game looks stunning.

Yes it's art direction is stunning alright.... Stunningly bad.

From a gameplay & UI standpoint WOW is among the best games made...Period.

From a graphic & artistic standpoint it's among the worst made....Period.

You can't have it all no game does. Again this is the price Blizz was willing to pay for it to run on any PC.

Low pollys doesn't have to mean low detail, other titles have proven this. If you've played those listed above and objectively reviewed them it's quite clear WOW doesn't compete artisticly.

WOW is the subscription leader because it's fun and has some of the most intuitive controls and UI of any MMO to date.

Not because of graphics or artistic direction, so again please stop this nonesense.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by laiko

-Player maxes all graphic options to ultra, player sees 10fps, player goes into hate mode, player says I can have ultra on WoW, if I can't on Aion, I wont play, Aion sucks!-

-Player creates character on "popular server" is lvl 1 and experiences lag, player says ew Aion server sucks, Aion sucks period, player quits sub without trying other servers-

I'd just like to point out that Wow's engine is old, and any current upper low to mid range graphics card can get away with almost near max settings, and people need to understand that some other games might require an upgrade to their card.

Also that I dont play either WoW(anymore) or Aion so don't flame me for being a fanboy -_-.

 

Whether WOW's engine is old is irrelevant. If a player thinks that the graphics good, that is good enough. WOW's engine is old but the art direction is timeless and things still look good.

That itself is a BIG competitive advantage. If Aion cannot make a un-demanding graphics engine and make their scenes look good, it has no ground to complain about its competition who can do so.

WOW is a fun starter MMO but it's graphics are terrible...Period.

Lineage II, Guild Wars, LOTRO, Granado Espada (SOTNW) are examples of good art direction. WOW is not, so for the LAST time stop trying to add it to the great art direction list. Their goal was a game that could be played on a toaster and they succeded. Their bet payed off.

 That was the price they were prepared to pay for it to run on any pc.

Originally posted by Cyborg99

Originally posted by Ozarumon

Thanks guys. Being a minoritiy in todays corperate world is hard.

 

Lol qq more. Actually whites have it harder today because of the racist minorities crying about their rights. If a black/ethnic guy and a white guy have the same credentials for a job interview the black/ethic guy gets it. That sounds extremely racist.

Black/Latina miss America, wheres  the white Miss America? 

Black schools, wheres the white schools?

 

Oh and the "I'm black/spanish/different I have it harder" routine doesn't work any more since we have a half non-white president so get off your ass and get a job. Also if you personalaly weren't a slave then you can't use that excuse either.
 

So in conclusion stop crying minorities, your lucky your even here and your being treated better then most white ppl that were born here.

 

That is the most miss guided, ridiculously ignorant post I've read in sometime. 

So in conclusion everyone should stop crying since this was originally the Indians land eh? actually we're all lucky  we're here since we've clearly been treated better than the indians..

How about a little more thought/foresight and allot less blithering nonsense before posting.

America will continue to achieve greatness because of all it's people..period.

I'm currently playing CoX and Perfect World..

While I'll continue to try new MMO's CoX is my current mainstay like EQ1 before it.  For me a title doesn't have to be the best in any one area just do a multitude of things well.

CoX does that for me these days..

First off there is no best game or we'd all be playing it...so please stop the nonsense.

The problem is (and let's be honest) very few publishers have offered a compelling alternative to WOW.

Why play a WOW clone when the real thing is still available and still crazy popular? All Publishers have to do is provide a Polished alternative and people will come. There are Millions (like myself) itching for a title that provides the fun of WOW only with the depth, strategy and required knowledge of character it lacks.

Furthermore a title doesn't have to compete with WOW  it simply has to provide a well made, quality alternative. Those titles that have are doing just fine (L2, EVE, LOTRO, CoX, Guild Wars etc.. While subscription numbers are clearly important they are in no way the only measure of success. Customer retention is key and like WOW fans the above titles also have loyalty to their titles. I know many players currently playing the above titles who've either no interest in WOW or tried it and said this isn't for me.

You know, I remember these same posts 6-7 years ago when EQ1 was king of the hill and it's rabid fanboys would make posts like this and the haters would spark up en-mass.

The next successor to the thrown will come in due time.....it always does.

Elgin Baylor>DR. J>Michael Jordan>Kolbe Bryant>Labron James>>>??

This should be of no surprise to anyone as DAOC is one of the top 5 MMO's ever made.

just for fun I wonder what  would happen if UO, EQ1, AC & DAOC did massive graphic updates.

One has to wonder..

Originally posted by Xiaoki

Impossible.

Look at City of Heroes. In CoH Cryptic hid the numbers to how everything was calculated; damage, defense, accuracy, everything. That didnt stop the players though. The dedicated would perform hundreds even thousands of tests to find the numbers themselves. Years later Cryptic finally gave up and released the real numbers themselves and admitted that the fans were extremely close with their tests.

If you hide something people WILL discover it, no matter how well hidden it is. It's a little something we like to call "human nature".

That's fine long as the devs let them discover it on their own and this is comming from a numbers geek.

What was good info in the begining has grown into uter nonsense these days. Some builds don't get group invites for DPS reasons even though the person behind the toon may be a superior player. I saw this garbage start near the end of my EQ1 days.

Numbers are great but when they become the determining factor they detract from a title. In the end It should always be about the players knowledge of class/skills not the latest FOTM build.

Originally posted by Zayne3145

I can't stand this whole mentality that MMORPG's should force grouping. People seem to be under the narrow-minded mnisconception that solo'ing is a synonym for being antisocial. This could not be further from the truth.

I like solo content for the sole reason that I can undertake things at my own pace. That is not to say I do not like socialising with other players at all. People that suggest playing Oblivion are completely missing the point. Oblivion is a world populated by AI-controlled NPC's, not real people. Sometimes it's just about being in a 'living' world, regardless of whether you wish to group or not.

I think all titles should offer solo content the problem is as it was 5-6 years ago it's gone too far as to margeonalize grouping. I'd bet the majority of soloers would group if finding one was allot quick process.

1) All titles should (these days most do) provide a separate path to soloing minus Epic content.

2) All titles should offer a  bonus to encourage but not force grouping

3) Soloers understand up front the elite items in game are obtainable only by grouping.

4) Ever title must offer robust group tools.

I solo allot for time constraints but when fast grouping is an option (CoX)  I take it.

This one is easy...

IMO WOW is the best starter MMO in existence...followed by LOTRO & CoX.

However If you actually want a solo challenge thst require strategy Guild Wars is your title. You can even hire a couple henchmen when it get's rough.

ZV.

The current crop of MMO's is what happened to mezz control.

Penalties for running recklessly into camp of mobs today is little to nothing. Sure there's mezzing in today's titles but your life rarely depends on it the way it used to. Breaking a storm Giant's mezz and watching him obliterate your entire team is quite diffrent than some pansy swashbuckler cutting you a couple of times.

Pulling classes today are more a luxury than must have. It's a shame actually, Ranger & Rouge's pulling is a lost art form. An Enchanrter who truely mastered his/her spells was a site to behold.

The one mistake made by  zealots is this falicy of WOW's difficulty PVE, PVP, Raid or otherwise.

Some of you guys don't get it, WOW's lack of difficulty is exactly the reason it's so popular. I quit WOW pre BC so granted the difficulty has likely risen some what. To that point though I raided AQ40, MC, BWL and Naxx etc.

While fun none were to the level of EQ1's raids nor were they supposed to be.

Also regarding leveling, I died a total of 14 times on the way to lvl 60. Much of that was in the begining getting used to WOW's version of the Paladin. If I were really cautious I could of probably halved that.

The beauty of WOW is that it allows you to jump in and dabble in PVE, PVP and rudementry raiding. But please stop trying to compare apples & oranges.

EQ1 was an endgame/ raid focused MMO. WOW is a introductory MMO for players new to the genre with raiding for those who want it.

..And finally if you haven't played both titles to a high level please stop posting conjecture. I'm seeing lots of posts from those who wern't even around commenting on EQ1 vs WOW.

Originally posted by Vrazule

This is the era of casual games.  EQ could never be as popular as WoW no matter what they did to improve it.  WoW's popularity is due to it's big focus on casual play, not because of it's low specs.  Low specs won't keep people playing, but fun content will.

It says volumes about a game that went through more than 2 million subs and never retained more than 450,000 at it's peak.

Correction: What is says is that WOW appealed to the 1.55 Million that couldn't hack EQ1. To be honest, that's how it was designed and guess what it payed off...big time.

Let's give credit where it's due Blizz listened to the complaints about EQ1 and created there own fun starter MMO accesable by all. Next you add in Battle.net's install base and bamo you've got a hit.

A Brilliant strategy by Blizz for sure therefore EQ1 wouldn't draw the numbers WOW has.

Don't get it twisted though WOW will never touch the level of raid competency, complexity or knowledge of one's skills  EQ1 required . The markets EQ1 would appeal to is worlds apart  from WOW's and to be honest EQ1's market is a dying breed.

Originally posted by spades07

Weight encumberment, fletching, extreme mana management, spellbooks, medding,tracking, collecting gnoll fangs(for faction), mez, slow, buffs, alternate advancement, camp-checks, sense-heading, foraging, Fungi tunic, pyzjn, Hadden, Lodizal, quad-kiting, orc 1, Keys (OS, HS, VT), platinum, mana-burn, 'Train!', Ssra, hot-zones, gate/gate-potions, song twisting, Ssoy, Wurmslayer, Iksars, Succor, Focus effects, Resist gear, Naggy and Vox,

"Shut up, just shut up. You had me at "Mez".

Originally posted by Deathstiny

... 90% of you wouldn't know what an MMO is.

QFT...

The genre would of continued to grow although nowhere near this pace. Just to set the record straight this genre was past niche status at the time of WOW's release.

These Johnny come lately's forget EQ1 was featured several times by mainstream media circa 2002/ 2003 NBC, 20/20 ABC & CBS. The genre would of been just fine minus WOW or any other post 2003 MMO.

However posts by the clueless would be down significantly hence making these boards allot less fun.