Definitely check out adventure quest...I think that company also has a couple of other browser games that might be more appealing. But if you like fantasy...AQ should wet your whistle.

massively multiplayer online roleplaying game

online roleplaying game

sounds like 2 different kinds of the same thing to me.
Gameloading-your post is like comparing red apples to green ones.

OP- i initially had the same problem with hitting....just turn down your graphics a bit (worked for me)

Yeah, I get what you're saying.  However I read in one post that you need AT LEAST 2g of RAM to run the game smoothly. Once I read that, none of the rest mattered. They already lost me.

Ok maybe "thrive" wasn't the right word. But my point is that the EVE doesn't try to appeal to the scores of people that have no interest in it. The devs don't compromise what makes the game great to its players to try to draw in more players.

WoW has growing numbers because of its advertising...its a commercial success, however if you look or ask around this site and others, you would find that many people haven't cancelled either because they are hoping that the upcoming expansion makes it better, or they are just waiting for something better to come out. Also, that 7 million subs they advertise includes trials and inactive accounts. While WoW has brought mmorpg's to the masses, it ultimately hurts the mmo community, because WoW isn't original at all, however it will still be copied many times over.

FACT: The masses don't buy superior products. They buy mass produced crap.

Big business for mmo's is not a good thing. Big business for any product is not a good thing. Sure its great for the company, but big $$ makes the products, as well as original ideas suffer. Thats ultimately the point I wanted to make.

Originally posted by mastervile

Guild wars is not an mmorpg and heres why.

1. a town or mission area is only place you will ever see another player unless your teamed.
2. next to no trade skills.
3. No macros or any chat options like posting items.
4. aside from different armors and weapons nothing to buy or use as equipment.
5. transportation is done by a map not on foot or horse or vehicle or etc.
6. almost no pvm content,no raids no dungeons aside from pvp nothing much to do but mission instances.

I know i missed few things but these are just some of reasons i never play gw anymore. I never did consider it an mmorpg even back when first game came out,too boring and no depth outside of pvp.

Its funny, since when did these things define what an MMO is??? So if a game doesn't follow these cookie-cutter guidelines, it can't be considered an mmorpg? Its still a mmorpg its just a different kind. Is that so bad?
   
    ANYWAY BACK TO THE OPs QUESTION: You lack of trust is unfounded. The only way the game will be canceled is if people stop playing it. They will make their money back through a cash shop and through expansions. This is a normal and underused option for devs to use when they don't think they will be able to charge a sub fee. Many games that would otherwise be dead have gone this route, the best example being Anarchy Online.
    Looking at the list of games on this site about 70% of the games listed would benefit from this method. Some games I would love to play, but I will not pay monthly for. These include Ryzom, Fairlyland, and RF online.

Originally posted by phatpanda

Merv, I think the problem with SWG is that when they developed the game, they did not have the massive audience in mind. Hence they have to actually change midway in hopes to make the game more interesting for the massive audience. But, as I hate to use it as an example, WOW was really designed with the mass in mind. It took in consideration of both casual players and hardcore (like raiding for Molten Core). Blizzard even went a step further and tries to applease the massive audience rather than cater to the niche market. I think that pissed the hardcore player off in a degree. But, as a business, it was a great success, and it bring many people entertainment. It's influnenced the society in a way no other MMORPG (or even all other MMORPG combined) can ever achieve.

I think except the truely few in society where they don't have anything else better to do, most of the people on planet earth enjoys grinding (vanguard and the koerans etc), camping and ganking routine very much.  Nowever, during the Everquest I to pre WOW period, people simply dont have a choice. They are forced to grind if they want to play mmorpg. I think many current WOW players will never switched to any other MMORPG because they don't enjoy the grinding and they refused to be forced into grinding.

I know there are players that prized themselves on their ability to grind and camp. But, there are many other players that dont. Games like Eve and WOW is coming out and providing players the choice, and many will take it.

And, no, I am not an WOW fanboi. I dont have a WOW subscription anymore, I do have an active subscription to EVE atm.

Lemme start by apologizing again.

Im sorry, but you haven't made your point....Im not even sure you have one anymore.

WoW, as I stated before (then you for some reason re-stated) did attempt to appeal to the masses. The game does everything, PvP, PvE, crafting, story, etc. However, it doesn't do any of them well. People that enjoy these things, and almost noone likes doing them all, look to games that offer more and deeper options. As a business decision, its a toss-up as to whether or not its good. On one hand, you sell more subscriptions, but on the other hand people don't subscribe for very long. While this may be just a theory, your canceled account (and mine) supports it. I played WoW for less than 2 months

I guess you don't consider WoW to be a grind??? I'm sorry but games that have quests that say kill X number of whatever enemy is still a grind.

You've also helped me make my point with your continued subscription to EVE. EVE is a niche game. It doesn't appeal to me or scores of other people. Yet it thrives because it caters to its core audience and doesn't try to be anything else.
What you don't seem to understand is that the entire MMO genre is "niche". People that have no interest in the lore of games shouldn't play them....and NO game should try to be all things to all people.

Originally posted by peenk

Originally posted by Rikimaru_X
Trust me, it's going to help it. You should take a look at how Phantasy Star Universe is doing on the 360. It's pretty much booming out there.

So false.  PSU is barely out and its dying already.  Plus its NOT a mmorpg so why do you compare the two?  Sure you can argue about the lobbies but combat-wise its not a mmorpg.  All mmorpgs that came out in the past 7-9 years used keyboard/mouse for a reason. 
Like someone mentioned before, I also do not believe that they decided to develop the game for 360 at a later time but had it in mind from the begining.  It is impossible for developers to think:
"Well, lets try and develop a mmorpg for PC but lets use joypad as a primary means of controll because substituting a keyboard with 50+ buttons and a mouse to use for easy interface control can really be played on a 12 button joystick."

Also :), troll statement:
360 is not a "gaming pc"
its a poor people's PC.

how many pc games actually use 50+ buttons?

Good thing. This will definitely help the game. Look at FFXI great game, and its life has been extended through the console versions.

People are funny...."I don't wanna play on the same servers as console players..." blah, blah, blah. Why? its not like their console will effect your gameplay at all. The PS2 is nothing like a PC and yet all users were able to play FFXI on the same servers. You couldn't spot the console players, nor did they seem to have any trouble with the controls. They didn't make the game laggy, and it didn't stop the game from looking amazing (yeah, the graphics were amazing back then)

Where do you guys get this stuff from? Damn separatists.

Originally posted by phatpanda
I thought the problem with MMORPGS today is that almost every developer is trying to cater to a "niche" market of 10000-20000 people instead of creating a game the general population can enjoy. Hence none of the developers achieved the sucess of WOW.In a poor example (cant think of a better one atm)  it's almost like Pepsi Cola focused its product in CA and only CA, A&W rootbeer is focused in Texas and only Texas, and Nestea is focsed in Penn and only Penn... while they enjoyed local moderate success, they can never achieve the commercial success of Coca Cola who focused in North America. Hence Coca Cola is not only able to penetrate market in the above mentioned state, it's also able to penetrate markets in the other untouched states, which in turn, produced massive profits and became the most influentual soda.

sorry phatpanda but you've got it backwards. The problem is that MMO devs try to appeal to the general population. SWG is a prime example of this. They had a great game on their hands and the community was great, but then they changed everything in order to appeal to a larger audience. In the end, they lost a ton of subs and it probably won't be long until the game is cancelled.

These games shouldn't try to appeal to the masses. Why? because it never works. Trying to appeal to more only alienates the core audience, while still not managing to please the people it wants to bring in. WoW, had almost every MMO element included, and everything in it is very shallow. EVE, on the other hand, is very successful primarily because it doesn't try to appeal to more than its core audience and the players love that. If more devs stuck to there "niche" then games like SWG and DDO would be more popular. The niche games insure that there is something out there for everybody.

Its silly for all the devs to try to appeal to everyone anyway. Everyone isn't going to subscribe to every game. Most people don't wanna sub to more than one.

PS: MMO are not cola----for Coca Cola...the more the merrier; for an MMO more people means lag and bad community (bigger communities=bad communities)

Originally posted by Shulei

Originally posted by tvalentine
haveing 3 characters out in a MMOG is disgusting IMO. It takes away the need for groups. And it gives you simply too much to worry about. Lvling each of em, buying each of them gear........ I dont like the idea.

The MCC (multi char control) is actually pretty exciting and allows for a lot of combinations.
Mob density is crazy, and mob spawn is incredibly fast, you'll need all three chars to survive.

Gear
Item drop is decent (items with special bonuses like +atk spd are drop only). Also the level/uberness of the item doesn't seem to help as much as leveling up your skills.
Mobs drop items that you can actually use later on (eg. lv 48 mobs drop lv 48-52 items).
Eg.  at lv 47 just picked up a lv 48 staff with +17% atk spd, so I'm not going to bother buying a clean lv 52 staff later.

For each char I only equip one piece of armor + weapon, that's enough.
Money was never an issue (admittedly I am playing on a higher rate (Japanese) test server, but on the normal rate servers I never had problems either). Some of the powerful wizard and warlock AOE spells require consumables, so I just didn't spam those.

Grouping / Soloing
You can solo with your team very effectively - I'm using fighter/wizard/scout, fighter to tank, wizard to nuke and scout to heal. The fighter has a nice AOE attack with a polearm, saved me from spamming the costly wizard AOE a lot.

Or you can party with other people in areas that would otherwise be above your level.
Partying is sort of an added protection in case you hit a box (appears randomly, spawns multiple mobs when hit) or run into a miniboss (normal mob with super high hp, randomly spawns, supposed to discourage botters etc).

You can also form squads to do missions together (eg. kililng raidbosses).
In hold mode your scout (the healer) will even autoheal your party members' characters.

Leveling
You can only have 3 chars in your team at once.
If you make more PC chars they will start at lv 1.
If you make an NPC char they will start at different levels (eg. Lisa Lynway starts at lv 24, which is around the same level you have to be in order to do her quest).
You have to finish quests to get NPC cards, which can be either used to create chars or sold to other players.
Your barracks can hold up to 4 chars, you can buy more slots with in-game currency.

It's a nice game. My only gripe is lack of character customization and not many  armor skins. PVP is on a duel basis, which is pretty much necessary since some team combinations can be really unbalanced (musketeers *cough*). The gameplay is really fun, and the graphics are beautiful. The only reason I am writing all this up is because my connection is currently too laggy to play! :(

English CB should start in Jan, signup form is on the IAH website
http://granadoespada.sg



I lied about only one piece of armour. Couldn't resist the hats (useless but adorable) :3

First off....lets give congrats and thanks to a game that has tried something innovative and new! I was interested in this game a little before, but after reading this post, I am ready to wet my pants in anticipation. I will definitely put this at the top of my watch list.

Thanks for posting this I was actually upset and had stopped playing the game because I didn't understand what was going on. Seeing as how the game itself or the games site doesn't explain it I was getting pretty frustrated.

Maybe you can answer another question for me: Why is it that noone in this game talks????

Yup I agree....Check out Shadowbane.....once you get off the noob island its a PvPer's dream

Well the guys at Gpotato haven't let me down yet, and I don't suppose they will now. Sure there games are F2P but honestly, I like to play SCO and FLYFF as much as any game that I pay for. The games they have are a nice change of pace. And I don't even buy Gpotatoes.

I dont think I've played a game that uses the control scheme you mentioned, but I would probably like that too

Well mostly I prefer wasd. But alot of times if the game allows me to right-click to move the camera I end up just using W to go forward and the camera controls to turn. Its more precise as it is hard to do slight turns with the a and d keys.

The problem is that every MMO HAS to compete. They can't co-exist the same way that offline games can. Why? because MMO's require a subscription fee, and noone is willing to pay for more than one or two at a time. Also, because people want to spend what free time that they have playing thier MMO of choice. Its hard to find the time or money to play more than one at a time. So when you find a game you like, you try to get others to play it, because playing in an empty world is NO fun. You want to get everyone (at least the nice people you meet) away from a game that you don't like and into a game that you do.

As far as SWG goes....well thats what happens when you have a great game, an incredible user-base that loves the game, and then you try to change the formula....its idiotic, and GREED will ruin a good game FAST.

And to answer the question of the OP "what happened to the companies that do things because they love to?". Well, read the forums those games are being flamed because they don't look as good as others or because they are different....People say they want different, but then they flame games that don't follow the mold.....Whatever are the devs to do???

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Originally posted by nakedone

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Originally posted by merv808
OK...This discussion has gotten off-topic, so I'm not gonna rant too long. However, some things need to be said.
NakedOne- You have a lot of ideas that are COMPLETELY off-base. You claim to have black friends that don't fit into the common "thug" stereotype, but yet in your posts you continue to put ALL blacks in that box. Personally, I know whites that have spent their entire lives in and out of jail, or that have been on welfare their whole lives. For me to assume that ALL or even MOST whites lived this way would be ignorant.
     You also made a point about crime...Crime is NOT, I repeat, NOT an issue when it comes to race. Every culture has crime, every culture has bad apples, and believe it or not every culture has violence amongst themselves. People fail to realize that 80-90% of crime is intraracial (not interracial) meaning that blacks commit crimes against blacks, whites against whites, so on and so fourth. The only reason you hear so much more about black on black crime is because of black LEADERS (of which you claim there are none) trying to put a stop to it.
    As far as the rap/MTV comment goes, it should be noted that most rappers talk about how they lived BEFORE they made it big. They don't glorify crime or drug-dealing as much as they glorify their money and status now (having made it in the music biz). Also, you can't blame the fact that its all over the television on the rappers themselves. MTV/Viacom is a white-owned, white-operated, and primarily white-watched network/corporation. What this means is that whites are buying into these images as much-if not more than blacks are...so if you assume that this music causes crime in the black community then you have to assume it has the same effect on whites. Another point to be made is that there are plenty of rappers rapping about positive things- (Common, Mos-Def, Jurassic 5, etc.) but, you won't ever see them getting heavy play on MTV, BET, VH1, or any other Viacom network.
    Someone also mentioned the brawl that happened recently in the NBA....That whole scenario, had me upset. Not as a black person, but just as an NBA fan. Anthony's involvement hurt me because all the good he has done will be forever erased because of one horrible decision. The part of it that made me upset as a black person though, is that the incident was covered on every news network out there. (ABC, NBC, FOX, MSNBC, CNN, C-SPAN, etc.) A week later there was a worse brawl in a soccer game, people were hospitalized with injuries, and unless you were a watching a primarlily sports oriented network, you didn't hear anything about it.

    Anyways, the bottom line is you can't decide anything about a race, or even a single person by what you see in the media. The media makes money from taking everyday non-newsworthy facts and pictures and turning them into scandal and controversy. People are people, and believe it or not there are millions of professonal blacks, violent whites, and unsuccessful asians. Stereotypes and generalizations are what ruins the world, and the sooner we can dispose of them-the better.

PS. Whining and complaining on this board only moves us backwards...drop your pre-concieved notions about someone and start a conversation with them. Lets move forward people.

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All you did was point out everything I said that gives blacks a bad image. Which in turn, gives them a negative stereotype. I already pointed out what you just said. But thanks for your defensive agreement.

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Well maybe I didn't get my point across, or maybe you ignored it. My intent was not to agree, nor was it to be defensive. It was simply an explanation of why you and others believe the ignorant things that you believe. It was supposed to be a message to say hey "don't put people in boxes", but it seems you, most of all, will never learn...

OK...This discussion has gotten off-topic, so I'm not gonna rant too long. However, some things need to be said.
NakedOne- You have a lot of ideas that are COMPLETELY off-base. You claim to have black friends that don't fit into the common "thug" stereotype, but yet in your posts you continue to put ALL blacks in that box. Personally, I know whites that have spent their entire lives in and out of jail, or that have been on welfare their whole lives. For me to assume that ALL or even MOST whites lived this way would be ignorant.
     You also made a point about crime...Crime is NOT, I repeat, NOT an issue when it comes to race. Every culture has crime, every culture has bad apples, and believe it or not every culture has violence amongst themselves. People fail to realize that 80-90% of crime is intraracial (not interracial) meaning that blacks commit crimes against blacks, whites against whites, so on and so fourth. The only reason you hear so much more about black on black crime is because of black LEADERS (of which you claim there are none) trying to put a stop to it.
    As far as the rap/MTV comment goes, it should be noted that most rappers talk about how they lived BEFORE they made it big. They don't glorify crime or drug-dealing as much as they glorify their money and status now (having made it in the music biz). Also, you can't blame the fact that its all over the television on the rappers themselves. MTV/Viacom is a white-owned, white-operated, and primarily white-watched network/corporation. What this means is that whites are buying into these images as much-if not more than blacks are...so if you assume that this music causes crime in the black community then you have to assume it has the same effect on whites. Another point to be made is that there are plenty of rappers rapping about positive things- (Common, Mos-Def, Jurassic 5, etc.) but, you won't ever see them getting heavy play on MTV, BET, VH1, or any other Viacom network.
    Someone also mentioned the brawl that happened recently in the NBA....That whole scenario, had me upset. Not as a black person, but just as an NBA fan. Anthony's involvement hurt me because all the good he has done will be forever erased because of one horrible decision. The part of it that made me upset as a black person though, is that the incident was covered on every news network out there. (ABC, NBC, FOX, MSNBC, CNN, C-SPAN, etc.) A week later there was a worse brawl in a soccer game, people were hospitalized with injuries, and unless you were a watching a primarlily sports oriented network, you didn't hear anything about it.

    Anyways, the bottom line is you can't decide anything about a race, or even a single person by what you see in the media. The media makes money from taking everyday non-newsworthy facts and pictures and turning them into scandal and controversy. People are people, and believe it or not there are millions of professonal blacks, violent whites, and unsuccessful asians. Stereotypes and generalizations are what ruins the world, and the sooner we can dispose of them-the better.

PS. Whining and complaining on this board only moves us backwards...drop your pre-concieved notions about someone and start a conversation with them. Lets move forward people.

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Originally posted by ladylore

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Originally posted by merv808 
    It should also be known that my father-in-law did not want me to date his daughter. He assumed that a black man would bring her nothing but grief. After I talked to him a few times...He realized that I was a nice guy with ambition, goals, and ideas. He also saw that I wasn't a thug, didn't sag my pants, and didn't purposefully use broken english...(Some of the posters here won't believe this but many blacks don't fit in this box-these things are NOT what defines being black.)

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Merv, I don't think it is that some of the posters here WON'T believe it, but rather they just don't know any better.  If they live in an area where there are very few blacks and so they have to go off of what they see in the media, or live where most of the blacks live in poverty and ignorance (like Detroit and Milwaukee for example) how else are they going to know that very many of us don't fit into those stereotypes?

I always find it odd when people on these boards talk about this "black culture" as if it somehow makes me foreign to them.  I don't like baggy pants, I know how to speak proper english, I am not violent or like my men violent, I have never been on welfare nor was I raised on it, etc. etc.  There's a lot more cultural overlap between all of the races than there are differences.  Including our love for MMORPGs. 

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Agreed